Massage Parlor Reports

It is true that we are responsible to our own decision. I feel sorry for many people who don't know how to calculate the risk level, or chances, probability of risk. For example, many environmentalists who talk about the mercury in fish as a reason to not to eat fish.

Honestly, 70% of medical sciences talking in news media are false (exasperated or understated).

I met a lady co-worker who bought a expensive house far away from her workplace and close to foreclosure. She told me that she made mistake to vote Bush, who caused this problem in her life. Well, why don't you study Bush well before you went to vote? Did she calculated how much money needs to be spent in Iraq to fail this war? Not.

Do more calculation in your life before you decide something important to your life.

Xx

[QUOTE=Tampa Monger]I've never understood why some mongers get their panties all in a bunch about someone else's risk-taking (or even lack of risk-taking). This is a hobby of calculated risks. Besides STDs, there's the risk of poor (or no) service, bad hygiene, arrest, robbery, violence, and so on. If you're comfortable with your level of risk, [b]what's it to you[/b] if someone else decides to take on more (or less)? Why do you care? Does it affect you in any way? No, it doesn't. So don't worry about it and don't bother criticizing it.

I think part of the problem comes from mongers who have no problem with condoms. They just cannot understand that some mongers cannot use condoms, and it isn't a simple thing. If I even see a condom, even in the wrapper, I'll lose my erection. I'm not going to spend years of psychotherapy or whatever it will take to change that. Therefore, if I want to engage in this hobby, I have to go with BBBJ. End of fucking story. It's that, or leave the hobby. A calculated risk. And how many BBBJs can you have before you want some pussy? To tell you the truth, I want pussy a whole lot all the time, but I probably get BBFS 1 - 3 times a year because of the worry and hassle it causes afterwards. I'd like to have it every day, to be honest.

There is still one AMP provider in Tampa Bay who is hot as hell and provides me with BBFS (no CIP) with no questions asked, even though it's rare that I do it. She does charge quite a bit for this service. I won't say who she is, but I will say that she's really a ray of sunshine on a cloudy day. :)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Bushluver]*******
The Center for Disease Control disagrees with your statement!!

Can I get HIV from oral sex?

Yes, it is possible for either partner to become infected with HIV through performing or receiving oral sex, though it is a less common mode of transmission than other sexual behaviors (anal and vaginal sex). There have been a few cases of HIV transmission from performing oral sex on a person infected with HIV. While no one knows exactly what the degree of risk is, evidence suggests that the risk is less than that of unprotected anal or vaginal sex....[/QUOTE]Though the CDC may disagree with Xiao Xing's blanket statement that HIV can't be transmitted at all from oral contact, Xiao Xing is correct that the level of risk for the PERSON RECEIVING ORAL SEX is so low as to be virtually non-existent. And even you in your preceeding statement admitted that the risk from RECEIVING oral sex is "extremely" low. You should also note a few things from the CDC's own statement that you quoted:

1) "Yes, it is [b][u]possible[/b][/u] for either partner to become infected with HIV through performing or receiving oral sex, though it is a [b][u]less common[/b][/u] mode of transmission". "Possible" does NOT necessarily mean likely. And even "less common" does NOT indicate HOW MUCH less common it is. In this case it is probably MUCH less common.

2) "There have been a [b][u]few cases[/b][/u] of HIV transmission from [b][u]performing[/b][/u] oral sex on a person infected with HIV". That is just a few cases out of how many millions of BBBJ's and DATY's (and DATO's) performed since the HIV virus first came out. And that is just a few cases of transmission from PERFORMING oral sex. You should have notice that they could not cite even a single case of transmission to a person RECEIVING oral sex. All that they can suggest there is that it is theoretically possible.

3) For the person to become infected from RECEIVING oral sex several things have to happen, but the most significant thing is that the person performing oral sex must have blood in their mouth because the HIV virus has not been found in significant (any?) quantities in saliva. And for there to be any significant quantity of blood in the mouth that person would have to have cuts or open sores in their mouth. And even then the person receiving it would most likely also have to cuts or open sores on the part of their body receiving the oral sex. The performer sticking their tongue or spitting their bloody saliva into the vagina or anus could also [b][u]theoretically[/b][/u] transmit the virus through the linings of those orifices which they come into direct contact even without the presence of any cuts or sores, but it becomes even less likely that the saliva diluted blood would manage to find its way so easily up the narrow urethra and infect the male recipient. This is why there hasn't been a SINGLE documented cases of ANY person getting HIV just from RECEIVING unprotected oral sex (even gay ones operating in a heavily HIV infected community), let alone any heterosexual males.

4) "While no one knows exactly what the degree of risk is, evidence suggests that the risk is [b][u]less[/u][/b] than that of unprotected anal or vaginal sex." While no one knows exactly what the degree of risk is, the fact that there have only been a few documented cases of HIV being transmitted through PERFORMING oral sex and NONE by receiving oral sex while there have been many 10's or 100's of thousands of cases being transmitted through unprotected anal or vaginal sex, suggests that the risk is actually MUCH less than it is through those other acts.

5) The vast majority of the CDC article quoted focuses on the risks to the person PERFORMING oral sex rather than to the person RECEIVING oral sex (which got just a few lines).

While the consequences of contracting AIDS are severe (like being in a plane crash), the likelihood of that happening for a man receiving unprotected oral-genital sex from a woman are sufficiently so remote that most men familiar with those odds would choose to accept that tiny tiny risk (just as most people are willing to fly). Even for a woman performing unprotected oral sex, the fact there have been so few (if any) documented cases of a woman contracting HIV in that way and that in those few cases there were probably other contributing factors that increased her risk (her having cuts and sores in her mouth, the guy CIM and having other STD's), means that even she is probably fairly safe from HIV, particularly if she stops short of letting the guy CIM and abstains from performing such acts completely at those times when she has any recent cuts or active sores in her mouth.

Really the concern for either the person performing or receiving oral sex should be MUCH more on OTHER STD's than HIV, particularly herpes. Worrying about getting AIDS from a BBBJ is like worrying about dying in a plane crash. Actually, if you're going to worry about anything, it makes far more sense to worry about getting herpes, which is FAR more likely to be transmitted through receiving oral sex than HIV and, while not fatal, is also incurable.

[QUOTE=Chase Star]Though the CDC may disagree with Xiao Xing's blanket statement that HIV can't be transmitted at all from oral contact, Xiao Xing is correct that the level of risk for the PERSON RECEIVING ORAL SEX is so low as to be virtually non-existent. And even you in your preceeding statement admitted that the risk from RECEIVING oral sex is "extremely" low. .[/QUOTE]


None of which changes the FACT that Xiao Xing's original statement "HIV can be transmitted through intercourse, but not from oral contact." is FALSE.

========================================================

"I would consider the probability to get AIDS as the similar to have a plane crash and lose your life. Just not going to happen to most people!" Xiao Xing

True, however if you are the unlucky one, in the first situation have AIDS or in the second you are dead! Slice it or dice it any way you want, your original statement is FALSE.

[QUOTE=Bushluver]None of which changes the FACT that Xiao Xing's original statement "HIV can be transmitted through intercourse, but not from oral contact." is FALSE.

========================================================

"I would consider the probability to get AIDS as the similar to have a plane crash and lose your life. Just not going to happen to most people!" Xiao Xing

True, however if you are the unlucky one, in the first situation have AIDS or in the second you are dead! Slice it or dice it any way you want, your original statement is FALSE.[/QUOTE]Bush, I think our point is that you're actually the one splitting hairs here. Yes, XX's original statement is technically false from a literal standpoint. So what? No one was contradicting you on that. Our real point is that, whether it is TECHNICALLY POSSIBLE to contract HIV from receiving oral sex (and that is what we're really talking about here since hopefully very few of us ever GIVE BBBJ's) or not, the odds are so remote that it is VIRTUALLY NON-EXISTENT (in the entire history of the virus there has never been 1 single documented case of HIV being transmitted in that way). No one knows the exact odds, since it has never happened, but it must be something akin to dying in a plane crash or getting struck by lightning (or perhaps even less). Most sensible people who know the odds of such things happening don't worry about it and treat it as though it essentially can't happen. At the very least, the chances of the plane crashing doesn't stop most people from flying and the chances of getting HIV from receiving a BBBJ shouldn't stop most guys from taking that "chance" either.

Lastly, you tried to draw some sort of distinction between dying in a plane crash and getting AIDS. I'm not sure I see your point. I think both cases actually are similarly bad and similarly unlikely. Are you suggesting that living with AIDS is worse than dying a much quicker but also horrific death in a plane crash and that getting BBBJ's is therefore a more foolish chance to take? If that really were the case, then you could always kill yourself after learning you have AIDS and arrive at the exact same result. OTOH, if you're saying that dying in a plane crash is worse, then how does that support your apparent argument that getting BBBJ's is such a foolish chance to take when so many people clearly routinely take worse chances flying? Personally, I think that either outcome is bad but I would much rather take my chances of living with HIV than the quick and certain death of dying in a plane crash (if either were to happen). Of COURSE, no one wants to be the unlucky ONE who suffers the unlikely outcome, whichever it is, but that doesn't mean the MILLIONS of other people who DON'T suffer that fate are going to alter their behavior over that SLIM possibility.
----

In the greater scheme of things, this is all a ridiculous argument any way because there are far greater things that we as hobbyists should worry about. The odds of contracting HIV from RECEIVING unprotected oral sex (a BBBJ) may be exceeding small, but the odds of contracting HIV from PROVIDING oral sex (DATY) are something greater and I know that there are MANY hobbyists who also do that (and I doubt many if any use dental dams). Also, while the consequences may not be as extreme, the likelihood of contracting herpes or some other STD from a BBBJ are so much greater than contracting HIV that those should really be a bigger concerns for any one receiving BBBJ's. Then there are the hobbyists like TM and myself who occasionally engage in unprotected heterosexual genital-to-genital sex with providers and many others who also do do BBFS but may not admit it (and may even do it more frequently and regularly than either of us). If you want to talk about a higher risk profile for contracting HIV and other STD's then it makes much more sense to worry about that sort of thing rather than the relatively risk-free BBBJ foreplay. And that is why the more responsible mongers normally draw the line at that point rather than at BBBJ's. And last but not least there is the risk of being arrested for paying to engage in sexual acts WHATEVER they might be (and the possible impact of that to our jobs, marriages, finances, freedom and reputation) and the odds of simply being ripped off by providers who operate in an often seedy and shady underground industry. And both of those are probably even more likely than any health risk we take on with the acts that most of normally do. And yet many guys still accept these risks to participate in this hobby.

Literally, AIDS has been re-defined as chronic disease which the patient can live up to 20-30 years after being infected:

"HIV/AIDS as a Chronic Disease
Emergence From the Plague Model
CHRISTY L. BEAUDIN
University of California, Los Angeles
SUSAN M. CHAMBRÉ
Baruch College, City University of New York
Abstract

The reframing of acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS) from an acute to a chronic disease brought about a different focus for public policy. Now viewed as the end stage of the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), AIDS has emerged from the plague model. Many biological and social forces affected this change, including an increased understanding of HIV and its associated disease processes, radical shifts in the composition and needs of those affected by HIV, advances in biomedical technology, and the expansion of health and social services. This article offers an overview of institutional and social responses to the epidemic and discusses the changing social construction of HIV/AIDS as a chronic illness in a historical model. Psychosocial and health care issues within a continuum of care framework are reviewed and implications for future HIV/AIDS care are considered."

xx

[QUOTE=Chase Star]Bush, I think our point is that you're actually the one splitting hairs here. Yes, XX's original statement is technically false from a literal standpoint. So what? No one was contradicting you on that. Our real point is that, whether it is TECHNICALLY POSSIBLE to contract HIV from receiving oral sex (and that is what we're really talking about here since hopefully very few of us ever GIVE BBBJ's) or not, the odds are so remote that it is VIRTUALLY NON-EXISTENT (in the entire history of the virus there has never been 1 single documented case of HIV being transmitted in that way). No one knows the exact odds, since it has never happened, but it must be something akin to dying in a plane crash or getting struck by lightning (or perhaps even less). Most sensible people who know the odds of such things happening don't worry about it and treat it as though it essentially can't happen. At the very least, the chances of the plane crashing doesn't stop most people from flying and the chances of getting HIV from receiving a BBBJ shouldn't stop most guys from taking that "chance" either.

Lastly, you tried to draw some sort of distinction between dying in a plane crash and getting AIDS. I'm not sure I see your point. I think both cases actually are similarly bad and similarly unlikely. Are you suggesting that living with AIDS is worse than dying a much quicker but also horrific death in a plane crash and that getting BBBJ's is therefore a more foolish chance to take? If that really were the case, then you could always kill yourself after learning you have AIDS and arrive at the exact same result. OTOH, if you're saying that dying in a plane crash is worse, then how does that support your apparent argument that getting BBBJ's is such a foolish chance to take when so many people clearly routinely take worse chances flying? Personally, I think that either outcome is bad but I would much rather take my chances of living with HIV than the quick and certain death of dying in a plane crash (if either were to happen). Of COURSE, no one wants to be the unlucky ONE who suffers the unlikely outcome, whichever it is, but that doesn't mean the MILLIONS of other people who DON'T suffer that fate are going to alter their behavior over that SLIM possibility.
----

In the greater scheme of things, this is all a ridiculous argument any way because there are far greater things that we as hobbyists should worry about. The odds of contracting HIV from RECEIVING unprotected oral sex (a BBBJ) may be exceeding small, but the odds of contracting HIV from PROVIDING oral sex (DATY) are something greater and I know that there are MANY hobbyists who also do that (and I doubt many if any use dental dams). Also, while the consequences may not be as extreme, the likelihood of contracting herpes or some other STD from a BBBJ are so much greater than contracting HIV that those should really be a bigger concerns for any one receiving BBBJ's. Then there are the hobbyists like TM and myself who occasionally engage in unprotected heterosexual genital-to-genital sex with providers and many others who also do do BBFS but may not admit it (and may even do it more frequently and regularly than either of us). If you want to talk about a higher risk profile for contracting HIV and other STD's then it makes much more sense to worry about that sort of thing rather than the relatively risk-free BBBJ foreplay. And that is why the more responsible mongers normally draw the line at that point rather than at BBBJ's. And last but not least there is the risk of being arrested for paying to engage in sexual acts WHATEVER they might be (and the possible impact of that to our jobs, marriages, finances, freedom and reputation) and the odds of simply being ripped off by providers who operate in an often seedy and shady underground industry. And both of those are probably even more likely than any health risk we take on with the acts that most of normally do. And yet many guys still accept these risks to participate in this hobby.[/QUOTE]

[b][u]EDITOR'S SUGGESTION[/u]:[/b] [blue]This is interesting, but you might consider re-posting it under the [u]Safe Sex[/u] topic in the Special Interests section of the Forum where it will benefit the Forum Members who are specifically looking for this type of information. [i]Thanks![/i][/blue]

Probably not the right thread for this question.

But all this STD talk got me thinking. I have on occasion succumbed to temporary insanity and under duress allowed BBBJ. Fight as I may. The little guy takes control and wins the battle every time.

Can any one provide a lead on where to get a check up? I asked my GP and found out it can cost close to 500$ to test for everything and insurance will not cover it.

Also, a bit of anonymity would be nice. Would hate to leave that kind of paper trail.

Any one know a clinic and a price, would be much appreciated.

Cheers

[QUOTE=Whale Hunter]Probably not the right thread for this question.

but all this STD talk got me thinking. I have on occasion succumbed to temporary insanity and under duress allowed BBBJ. Fight as I may... the little guy takes control and wins the battle every time.

Can any one provide a lead on where to get a check up? I asked my GP and found out it can cost close to 500$ to test for everything and insurance will not cover it.
Also, a bit of anonymity would be nice. Would hate to leave that kind of paper trail.
Any one know a clinic and a price, would be much appreciated.

Cheers[/QUOTE]If you're in the Hillsborough county area you can recieve free STD and HIV screenings on a walk-in basis at the Kennedy Blvd location. I think there are other health department locations, but I know you can get the testing done at the Kennedy location Monday thru Friday.

[QUOTE=Whale Hunter]Probably not the right thread for this question...
but all this STD talk got me thinking. I have on occasion succumbed to temporary insanity and under duress allowed BBBJ. Fight as I may... the little guy takes control and wins the battle every time.

Can any one provide a lead on where to get a check up? I asked my GP and found out it can cost close to 500$ to test for everything and insurance will not cover it.

Also, a bit of anonymity would be nice. Would hate to leave that kind of paper trail.

Any one know a clinic and a price, would be much appreciated.

Cheers[/QUOTE]I use [url=http://www.labsafe.com/]LabSafe[/url]. They are discreet, but not necessarily as cheap as you're looking for. I've literally gotten thousands of BBBJs in 15 years of mongering and gotten absolutely nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. I'll be positively astounded if you've gotten anything at all.

The chance to get is similar to get a plane crash when you fly.

xx

[QUOTE=Tampa Monger]I use [url=http://www.labsafe.com/]LabSafe[/url]. They are discreet, but not necessarily as cheap as you're looking for. I've literally gotten thousands of BBBJs in 15 years of mongering and gotten absolutely nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. I'll be positively astounded if you've gotten anything at all.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Tampa Monger]I use [url=http://www.labsafe.com/]LabSafe[/url]. They are discreet, but not necessarily as cheap as you're looking for. I've literally gotten thousands of BBBJs in 15 years of mongering and gotten absolutely nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. I'll be positively astounded if you've gotten anything at all.[/QUOTE]

Thx TM.
That is the price I was afraid of.
Any one know of a cheaper place? That test would put a serious dent in my "entertainment" budget... Might even force me to start reading the Street walker thread... NO Wait!! STDs is what i'm trying to avoid here... never mind. Lol

[QUOTE=Whale Hunter]thanks TM.

That is the price I was afraid of.

Any one know of a cheaper place? That test would put a serious dent in my "entertainment" budget. Might even force me to start reading the Street walker thread. NO Wait! STDs is what I'm trying to avoid here. Never mind. LOL[/QUOTE]I believe the health department does the testing and it's either free or real cheap. I have also had many BBBJ in the past and felt bad after but have been lucky not to get anything either.

Good Luck

The Hillsborough County Health Department offers low cost, or free depending on income, anonymous testing and treatment for STD's. The main office is located on the corner of Nebraska and Kennedy in downtown Tampa.

[QUOTE=Whale Hunter]Probably not the right thread for this question...
but all this STD talk got me thinking. I have on occasion succumbed to temporary insanity and under duress allowed BBBJ. Fight as I may... the little guy takes control and wins the battle every time.
Can any one provide a lead on where to get a check up? I asked my GP and found out it can cost close to 500$ to test for everything and insurance will not cover it.
Also, a bit of anonymity would be nice. Would hate to leave that kind of paper trail.
Any one know a clinic and a price, would be much appreciated.

Cheers[/QUOTE]

I ask my Urologist and he advised to get tested only for Hep and Aids All other STDs have symptoms and since I have no symptoms, he considered those a waste of money.

I went to a regular place for the blood test and got a $299 bill in the mail. I ignored the bill for 60 days and a new bill send to me was reduced to $99 which I paid.

I do it about every 6 months and so far have always tested negative.

PS: I always go for BBBJ and DATY wherever I can get it. Bill Ho




[QUOTE=Whale Hunter]Probably not the right thread for this question...
but all this STD talk got me thinking. I have on occasion succumbed to temporary insanity and under duress allowed BBBJ. Fight as I may... the little guy takes control and wins the battle every time.
Can any one provide a lead on where to get a check up? I asked my GP and found out it can cost close to 500$ to test for everything and insurance will not cover it.
Also, a bit of anonymity would be nice. Would hate to leave that kind of paper trail.
Any one know a clinic and a price, would be much appreciated.

Cheers[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Hard Working 19]The Hillsborough County Health Department offers low cost, or free depending on income, anonymous testing and treatment for STD's. The main office is located on the corner of Nebraska and Kennedy in downtown Tampa.[/QUOTE]I too have used the Hillsborough County Health Department in the past. It was free and anonymous. The only bad thing was they were'nt as friendly as most doctors. I can still feel the lady cramming the oversized q-tip up you know what.

Good luck

I realize that this isn't the safe sex thread but as long as we're on the topic and the subect of where to go in Tampa has come up, you might also want to visit the county immunization clinic near 50th and Adamo (4951B E Adamo Dr, Ste 210 to be precise) for your Hep B vaccination. Its a series of 3 shots (good for life) at $38/shot. Although it is not a STD, you might also want to go for the Hep A shots at the same time by getting the Twinrex series instead at $54/shot (and make sure your Tet/Dip shot is also up-to-date since its probably been more than 10yrs since your last one and it only costs $29). Unfortunately, there is no current immunization shot for Hep C but, although transmittable sexually, it is rarely contracted that way. Hep B may be a somewhat less common as an STD but, if you're gonna have sex with multiple partners of questionable background, this is a fairly easy and simple precaution to take and makes it just one less thing to have to worry about.

BTW, we all have our own comfort levels and risk tolerances, but I really don't think Whale Hunter should be so worried about (or reluctant to get) BBBJ's any way. As I said before the risk of getting HIV from RECEIVING a BBBJ is so rare (no documented cases at all in the entire history of the virus) that it is ESSENTIALLY non-existent. Contracting other STD's from a BBBJ are more possible and should be a bigger concern but are still fairly rare. I've known and discussed this subject with upwards of a hundred or more mongers who have received literally 1000's (if not 10's of thousands) of BBBJ's during their mongering careers and not one has reported getting an STD from a BBBJ alone. These same guys have also performed similar numbers of DATY's and I know of only 1 case of a guy who might have caught a treatable throat infection from it. Of course it never hurts to avoid pussies (or mouths) that look and/or smell questionable and also refrain from any DATY when you have and cuts or sores in your own mouth.

I'm NOT a doctor, so you should take this all from where it comes, but IMHO the main thing that we as mongers should be worried about is the BBFS that started this discussion. TM threw the dice on that one and came out clean and, IMHO, most of the time if you're reasonable selective (meaning personally I'd never go BBFS with a skanky crackwhore) you'll probably come out safely too (depending on how often you do it), but the risk with that sort of practice is several orders of magnitude worse than it is for these other foreplay activities that we've been discussing.