General Reports

[QUOTE=HapaBoy86;7476706]That's a bunch of BS.

When the the and BPD took down the The League they ruined many average Joe clients lives and lost everything.[/QUOTE]33 guys were arrested and they got arrested because they got involved in the business. They "rescued" (big fucking eye roll) 12 victims of human trafficking that were somehow being forced to work against their will from apartments they could freely come and go from.

If there were 12 chicks working the number of johns would have been in the hundreds.

[QUOTE=Admin2;7477026]33 guys were arrested and they got arrested because they got involved in the business. They "rescued" (big fucking eye roll) 12 victims of human trafficking that were somehow being forced to work against their will from apartments they could freely come and go from.

If there were 12 chicks working the number of johns would have been in the hundreds.[/QUOTE]The guys running the show got the headlines. What probably went unreported are the hobbyists who got marched to court, copped to the charges and took plea deals — pay a fine, community service, probation, immunity or reduced charges for testimony, etc. Not exactly the most riveting stuff besides maybe a passing sentence in a news story.

[QUOTE=Markro3000;7476803]
And more importantly, I doubt they get you to a trial without you confessing to crimes. Saying nothing if asked is still currently protected in the US.[/QUOTE]For now at least. But this is really the most important point. Never, ever, for any reason or under any circumstances answer ANY question from a LEO or the outside the presence of your lawyer. They can and will say all sorts of shit to convince you that it's in your best interest but they are lying and are legally allowed to do so. They have one goal, to fuck your life up. Never forget that. Exercise your rights to the fullest extent possible.

You are not obligated to answer questions without an attorney even if you aren't being detained. You are not obligated to assist the investigation in any way unless there's a warrant, subpoena, or other form of court order. You cannot be compelled by police to give out your phone or computer password (and never use face or touch I'd, popo can just hold it up to your face or put your finger on the screen).

Anyway, as has already been said, I think the only way they could get you on this is if you were fairly explicit in text. The WA statues says that 'agreeing' to pay for it is the crime. Even so. It seems like that's still a much harder case to prove from a text than, say, handing cash over to an undercover.

Now, here's a moment of true paranoia. If AP was taking video inside the rooms for some sort of blackmail scheme and that's been seized by popo that's a bad day for anyone who partook. They got video of the act, the transaction, and that little wee-wee that will be shown in court. Likely? Let's hope not. Possible? Unfortunately.

This is a good lesson to remember to mind what we say over text to anyone. After a few times it's probably easy to get comfortable with the bookers and providers. Keep it vague.

It's interesting to go back and read the limited media reports on "The League".

First of all, it seems they went after the high volume guys -- in addition to the purported organizer. Presumably the theory there is "we have evidence you did this many times, we don't have to prove all of them in court, just one or two of them. If you plead out here, we'll go easy on you". And they did apparently go easy on the rest of them, but certainly there is lingering life damage to those whose names appear on criminal records, etc.

Second of all, it seems they made a big show of claiming this was a "trafficking" bust, but the ring leader (who did get convicted) wasn't even charged with trafficking. Why? Presumably because there was no trafficking. They got him on counts of "promoting prostitution" and he clearly chose to fight in court (or maybe wasn't given a plea option because they needed to salvage some courtroom win from this fiasco?

Likely, if something happened at Asian Pink, there was excitement at Bellevue PD that they "again saved a bunch of women". Of course they didn't. Also, this isn't "The League 2. 0". There's not a large group of sites and women here. There was a rotating group of, what, 2-4 people? They travel around the country then go back to Korea? Honestly, I don't know how this works, but it seems to fall quite a bit short of coercion, let alone trafficking. I imagine there's "a name" that they have identified as the "ring leader". But is there any evidence anyone was arrested? It seems with "The League" they chose to make a splash with the arrests. Here, what's the plan? Arrest people after Christmas?

I'm seeing scant evidence that they've "uncovered anything". I'm seeing the typical evidence that the police decided to put an end to a bunch of people doing a bunch of consensual things that are technically illegal and maybe really quite annoying to neighbors. As a person that has lived in apartment buildings, I wouldn't want a prostitution operation in my building either.

Maybe it's time for a real progressive somewhere to start licensing brothels. And maybe it's time for the police to re-dedicate resources to property crime or actual trafficking, instead of this nonsense.

That's my take. Stay safe and be smart.

[QUOTE=Markro3000;7477124]It's interesting to go back and read the limited media reports on "The League".

First of all, it seems they went after the high volume guys -- in addition to the purported organizer. Presumably the theory there is "we have evidence you did this many times, we don't have to prove all of them in court, just one or two of them. If you plead out here, we'll go easy on you". And they did apparently go easy on the rest of them, but certainly there is lingering life damage to those whose names appear on criminal records, etc.[/QUOTE]They weren't just the high volume, they were actively meeting up and organizing. An undercover even attended these meetings and was a witness to these guys openly talking about what they were doing. Really easy to build a case there when you're yapping about it in person. There were about 50 vetted guys for those meetups / group, so they didn't even get everyone there. They also didn't pursue all the faces and ids of the people registered on the board that were reviewing and so discussing it online. The big difference here is that it's likely they were satisfied with those arrested for The League, so it all depends if there are resources or appetite to pursue more in this case. Given the site was taken down, it's clear they reached out to that hosting provider already.

What should be noted is that the year after they conducted a sting operation to take advantage of the void left open after taking down the sites. That's where they arrested 110 people, including that radio host mentioned before. They did fuck that up though because they accidentally recorded audio for some of the stings, where it's required to have two party consent here. So around 68 (I forget the exact number) people got their cases dismissed because one lawyer had pointed that out in one case. But they still impounded cars, and the like, which is hard to explain if say you're using your employer's car to visit.

Also if you look around there was another bust in 2019: [URL]https://nbc16.com/news/nation-world/police-bust-upscale-brothel-in-downtown-bellevue[/URL].

You can connect the dots there with those details.

BPD and King County go after incalls in that area (Bellevue / Newcastle / Redmond) pretty aggressively and have for decades. Particular AAMPs and things that act like them. There are lots of other options out there in areas that don't have local LE with a woody about going after the hookers and johns.

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Two things

1. OJ proved that if you have enough money you can beat any charge.

2. You do not KNOW that they are trafficked you think it. In every instance where some AMP got busted and the women were "trafficked" they were free to leave the place. In Florida when Robert Kraft got busted one of the chicks was charged for both soliciting and trafficking. DA's always say they are trafficked to get federal funds.

A2[/blue]

There are a lot of comments about AP closure. We all know that AP operated at scale. I'm sure that there are lawyers, police officers who visited AP.

How can we make all our comments actionable and be ready if police is going to charge clients too? Just to start:

1. Lawyers.

Does anyone know a good lawyer who already helped in similar situations?

2. Sting operation.

We need to be ready for potential sting operation. Last time they were able to capture more than 100 guys.

We have to find ways to figure out potential sting operation way more faster. I know that we have people from all countries who can easily figure out if something is really strange. For example, just contact other providers or agencies.

3. Sending DL or any other information.

Well, I can give you here advice. Police must rely only on the telecoms providers logs. So send your information in the protonmail with expiration date or telegram / signal.

Even if police find you DL in the agency database then they can't use it. But telecom logs will help then to identify you and use it as a evidence.

4. Everything else.

For example, if police is charging client then how exactly it's happening? Do they send you mail or visit you?

What else we can do?

Anyone heard anything? I couldn't find any records of prostitution-related arrests in the past 90 days through a FOIA request.

Most of what you said was either obvious or silly, but this stands out.

[QUOTE=Mrnobody3455;7478463]Even if police find you DL in the agency database then they can't use it[/QUOTE]Of course they can. It goes to intent to engage with a known criminal enterprise. Anything that corroborates that intent with action will be enough for a warrant. At that point it becomes an individual assessment of how careful someone was in their communication and privacy hygiene.

The only thing anyone can do has already been noted: clean up your tracks as much as possible, and don't talk to anyone without a lawyer.

Not getting into back-and-forth on this, but there it is.

[QUOTE=WillShookup;7481095]Most of what you said was either obvious or silly, but this stands out.

Of course they can. It goes to intent to engage with a known criminal enterprise. Anything that corroborates that intent with action will be enough for a warrant. At that point it becomes an individual assessment of how careful someone was in their communication and privacy hygiene.

The only thing anyone can do has already been noted: clean up your tracks as much as possible, and don't talk to anyone without a lawyer.

Not getting into back-and-forth on this, but there it is.[/QUOTE]There is serious issue with AP. A lot of people were involved. Let's do not discourage people posting if you personally think it's silly and obvious. Please keep it professional.

The question about DL is simple. How police can prove that you have sent it? Someone else found your DL used it. It's pretty common that people are sending some else dl to escort girls. You can't clean up telecom logs. They will check logs and will found owners of phones who communicated and send them requests. If your DL was sent from your phone number then they already know about you. Everything depends if they can prove that you are ther owner of that number and you communicates with AP.

*sigh*.

[QUOTE=Mrnobody3455;7481254]Please keep it professional.[/QUOTE]
Where do you think you are? LinkedIn is that way...

[QUOTE=Mrnobody3455;7481254]Let's do not discourage people posting[/QUOTE]
I never discourage people posting. I would hope no one is so fragile that they can't bear to have their advice appropriately questioned.

What I do discourage is giving really bad legal advice and downplaying the seriousness of the situation, as you are.

Let me take a last shot on educating you on how the legal system works.

To be clear, no one knows what the agency kept, what LE was able to obtain, and what every individual situation is. There are a few things we know: the agency required an DL, and the agency will roll on everyone if they think it will help their situation. Lastly, we can feel confident that right now LE is figuring out what they have and what they want to do with it. Even if the information is neatly organized, it takes a while to connect the dots and determine what they want to do. We're likely 3-6 months from any real actions, and those against the people with no privacy hygiene. I assure you 25-50% of people sent unredacted DLs and their "real" phone, and were astoundingly incautious about the content of their communication.

There are two key concepts: probable cause and warrants. If a criminal enterprise has your DL (and we're not talking about some mythical "found" DL. They have hundreds), and probably the text you sent it from, along with other texts from the same number that contain incriminating information. That is sufficient probable cause to get a warrant for phone info. You keep talking about "telcom logs" - you don't know what that all includes. It has pretty much your continual location along with every call and text. Additionally, if someone was stupid enough to use their real number they can quickly align that with your I'd. And now they have everything they need to take a swing at the very least to question you. The usual barrier is trying to tie a phone or email to a human. By providing a DL, you've already done that for them. This is not a typical agency bust because of this I'd requirement that people stupidly complied with.

So the evidence chain here is fairly easy with what's before them:

Person sent DL.

Person asked about services / money, which is unlawful.

Person was given an address and time.

Mobile device confirmed near that location at the indicated time, potentially additionally corroborated by license plate scans of a vehicle associated with the DL.

Facility cameras confirm an individual at that location and time, potentially with a face but regardless matching the DL demographics. There isn't a decent apartment or hotel that isn't covered with cameras.

Person sent nice follow-up text to agency about the experience, confirming it.

As noted by others. The goal here is to get a "win", which includes accepting a plea to a lesser charge in lieu of very public prosecution.

So let's all avoid two things: 1) Giving legal advice. The only good advice on this thread is not to talk to anyone without an attorney. 2) Understating the level of risk when a criminal enterprise has your DL and phone number, acknowledging that the risk of the latter is directly proportional of the savvy of the pooner.

If someone is on the 'moron' side of that scale they should probably drop $450 for a lawyer consult.

'Nuff said by me. Folks will do what they will. Ain't got time or crayons to go through this again.

Thank you for sharing this legal information. I agree with your point that people should not be offering inaccurate or speculative legal advice regarding this raid or any potential consequences that may follow. While providing factual context from prior cases or past raids can help calm the community, we should avoid spreading misleading or unsupported information.

On another board (TER), there was a discussion noting that, in a mid-size market with a relatively new agency, a booker's client list can easily exceed 2,000 names. In larger markets or with more established agencies those lists are likely significantly longer. From my own experience in my area, I can confirm that bookers did not delete client PII or phone records; I observed this firsthand. Based on that, it is reasonable to assume that law enforcement now has access to all of those records. What happens next will largely depend on the DA's direction and how much time and resources law enforcement chooses to invest in reviewing and tracing the seized data.

I hope the impact remains limited and does not escalate into a large-scale situation similar to "The League" incident from years past. However, it is important that everyone remains realistic and prepared for the worst-case scenario, rather than assuming minimal consequences.

[QUOTE=WillShookup;7481681]*sigh*.
Where do you think you are? LinkedIn is that way...
I never discourage people posting. I would hope no one is so fragile that they can't bear to have their advice appropriately questioned.
What I do discourage is giving really bad legal advice and downplaying the seriousness of the situation, as you are.
Let me take a last shot on educating you on how the legal system works.
To be clear, no one knows what the agency kept, what LE was able to obtain, and what every individual situation is. There are a few things we know: the agency required an DL, and the agency will roll on everyone if they think it will help their situation. Lastly, we can feel confident that right now LE is figuring out what they have and what they want to do with it. Even if the information is neatly organized, it takes a while to connect the dots and determine what they want to do. We're likely 3-6 months from any real actions, and those against the people with no privacy hygiene. I assure you 25-50% of people sent unredacted DLs and their "real" phone, and were astoundingly incautious about the content of their communication.
There are two key concepts: probable cause and warrants. If a criminal enterprise has your DL (and we're not talking about some mythical "found" DL. They have hundreds), and probably the text you sent it from, along with other texts from the same number that contain incriminating information. That is sufficient probable cause to get a warrant for phone info. You keep talking about "telcom logs" - you don't know what that all includes. It has pretty much your continual location along with every call and text. Additionally, if someone was stupid enough to use their real number they can quickly align that with your I'd. And now they have everything they need to take a swing at the very least to question you. The usual barrier is trying to tie a phone or email to a human. By providing a DL, you've already done that for them. This is not a typical agency bust because of this I'd requirement that people stupidly complied with.
So the evidence chain here is fairly easy with what's before them:
Person sent DL.
Person asked about services / money, which is unlawful.
Person was given an address and time.
Mobile device confirmed near that location at the indicated time, potentially additionally corroborated by license plate scans of a vehicle associated with the DL.
Facility cameras confirm an individual at that location and time, potentially with a face but regardless matching the DL demographics. There isn't a decent apartment or hotel that isn't covered with cameras.
Person sent nice follow-up text to agency about the experience, confirming it.
As noted by others. The goal here is to get a "win", which includes accepting a plea to a lesser charge in lieu of very public prosecution.
So let's all avoid two things: 1) Giving legal advice. The only good advice on this thread is not to talk to anyone without an attorney. 2) Understating the level of risk when a criminal enterprise has your DL and phone number, acknowledging that the risk of the latter is directly proportional of the savvy of the pooner.
If someone is on the 'moron' side of that scale they should probably drop $450 for a lawyer consult.
'Nuff said by me. Folks will do what they will. Ain't got time or crayons to go through this again.[/QUOTE]

Years ago when I first started in the hobby I exclusively used an agency when I lived in a different major city. They had my real phone number, I often paid with credit card, my address, then whole nice yards. I was new to this entire thing and just didn't know. The girls were hot and I had good times. Well, they got busted and I read an article about it in the newspaper. The detective on the case mentioned that they had seized an entire database of client records which contained PII along with detailed notes about the preferences of each client in terms of women as well as activities (likes to give oral, etc). In that instance nothing came of it, at least not for me, but that caused me to wake-up. This was over 20 years ago and times were different, in today's climate and in a city like Seattle this could turn out differently. And if the agency had ever had UA on-staff then that could definitely have gone differently. So I learned from that. I relied on the agency to be discreet and they weren't, retaining detailed records about each client like they did, and I also realized that I relied on them to adequately screen new talent including ensuring that they were off age. I never once asked for verification because I assumed that the agency had done that. That could have turned-out very badly for a lot of us.

[QUOTE=SexEveryday;7481749]From my own experience in my area, I can confirm that bookers did not delete client PII or phone records; I observed this firsthand. Based on that, it is reasonable to assume that law enforcement now has access to all of those records. What happens next will largely depend on the DA's direction and how much time and resources law enforcement chooses to invest in reviewing and tracing the seized data.[/QUOTE]

Has it been confirmed that they got busted and that LE is involved? All I know for sure is that they are not operational.