"Sugar Babies" and "Arrangements"

There's alot of things to respond to here, so I'll try to just stick to the most interesting points:

Market price is the average price paid for any given commodity or service. It would make all of our lives easier if there was a pussy ticker similar to a stock ticker, but no such luck LOL. Instead we have to rely on info shared from others in the hobby, and hope they have enough cred to be believable. I like to think I've built up enough cred to be reliable, but understand that if what I say flies against your lived experience it can be hard to accept another point of view that contradicts your reality. All I can tell you is what I experience, and what girls have told me they have experienced, and trends I've noticed. I do speak in broad generalities (never pay more than 300, older women should cost less) but understand that exceptions always exist. However, there are others on this board that I talk to privately that confirm my experiences.

I think most guys in the bowl fall very broadly into 2 categories. The first, and I think more common category, are guys looking for GFE escorts without the volume or rules. These guys tend to be more direct, straight to the point, use higher PPMs to avoid having to spend the extra time or effort to get to know a girl, and generally won't see the same girl more than a handful of times. They go after "hot girls" more than "cute girls" if that distinction makes sense, which also has a side effect of driving up the PPM, especially when combined with their lack of negotiation (negotiation means more time and effort, and they just want to get straight to fun).

The second category treat the bowl like a dating app. Some guys are looking for 1 long term GF while others are looking to find several friends with benefits, but either way they spend more time and effort getting to know the girls, are talking to both the "hot girls" and the "cute girls", and will see the same girl or girls several times over the space of several months. They end up finding girlfriends or friends with benefits, and can often move from PPM to a lower PPM or even free, or "freemium" which I would call needing to take the girl out or give her small gifts in place of an allowance / PPM. I had a pretty hot mid-20's girl awhile back that started off at 200 ppm plus hotel, but after our first date I only had to pay for dinner or pay for her to get a mani / pedi / massage. Generally I'd text her to see if she were busy, we'd meet up and fuck, then I send her a $100 gift card to her favorite spa. I've been with an honest-to-god print model and I know for a fact I was paying her 300 while another SD was paying her 500, but she fucked me for 300 (despite me being very unattractive) because we "vibed" so much over text. We really connected, the sex was amazing, and I genuinely missed her when she moved away.

I suspect this is the reason there is such a wide gap in dudes sugaring experiences, and if you're the 1st type of guy, stories from the 2nd type of guy seem unrealistic or perhaps even "tall tales". I suspect it also inadvertently creates 2 very different markets with different pricing. I've posted screenshots of my successful negotiations before, and I've posted pics of the girls I've been with both here and the greatest hits thread. If you think I've put the time and effort in to fake all those posts and proof to create "tall tales" I don't know what to tell you.

I'm not making a judgement on either type. If you're just looking for P2P GFE hookups, basically treat SB sites like glorified escort sites, that isn't bad or wrong, just different expectations and strategies to achieve success. As long as you're ok paying more to save time, you'll likely get more variety in girls, and I hope you have a blast. If you're the 2nd type, then you likely won't fuck as many girls, but the girls you do fuck will do so for less PPM. And I'm sure some guys are some mix of the 2 types.

No matter which type you are or what your goals are in the bowl, I think we all benefit from sharing experiences, including what we're getting for what we pay. I respect AirmanTroy, he's been posting forever and has shared a lot of good insights. He and I disagree on how to determine PPM, but hopefully the discussion helps guys hear different perspectives and decide for themselves how to price and negotiate these things.

[QUOTE=GoneForGood97;7525232]There's alot of things to respond to here, so I'll try to just stick to the most interesting points:

Market price is the average price paid for any given commodity or service. It would make all of our lives easier if there was a pussy ticker similar to a stock ticker, but no such luck LOL. Instead we have to rely on info shared from others in the hobby, and hope they have enough cred to be believable. I like to think I've built up enough cred to be reliable, but understand that if what I say flies against your lived experience it can be hard to accept another point of view that contradicts your reality. All I can tell you is what I experience, and what girls have told me they have experienced, and trends I've noticed. I do speak in broad generalities (never pay more than 300, older women should cost less) but understand that exceptions always exist. However, there are others on this board that I talk to privately that confirm my experiences.
.[/QUOTE]You and I do agree on and share a lot of info, we disagree on age being a determining factor for ppm, that's about the extent of it. I know from my convo's with SB's and with other guys that what they are willing to accept is NOT based on their age. But we have so many options to establish a "market" price. Listcrawler, Eros, Tryst, Models World. And you can occasionally find a gem on any one of those sites, but the odds are against you on the lower end of the scale. Some guys are in this for the variety without the potential for high volume, some are looking for a part time girlfriend they don't mind tossing a few bucks at, some are absolutely looking for a clock free escort. There's way too many guys with a huge difference in what they are looking for to generalize it to a specific range of numbers. My general rule is 300-400 depending on if they can host, boundaries that have been discussed, availability during the times I can escape life easily. I can determine if the girl is a wannabe escort with the title in less than 6 text messages on most encounters, I don't really care if that's what she wants, as long as there is no timer ticking down and she checks the boxes I look for.

Anyone have experience with this one? Texts are going great so far and doesn't seem in a hurry to meet. DMs are okay.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/8de29843-1529-4919-9e89-523897c01ddc[/URL]

[QUOTE=Airmantroy;7525344]You and I do agree on and share a lot of info, we disagree on age being a determining factor for ppm, that's about the extent of it. I know from my convo's with SB's and with other guys that what they are willing to accept is NOT based on their age. But we have so many options to establish a "market" price. Listcrawler, Eros, Tryst, Models World. And you can occasionally find a gem on any one of those sites, but the odds are against you on the lower end of the scale. Some guys are in this for the variety without the potential for high volume, some are looking for a part time girlfriend they don't mind tossing a few bucks at, some are absolutely looking for a clock free escort. There's way too many guys with a huge difference in what they are looking for to generalize it to a specific range of numbers. My general rule is 300-400 depending on if they can host, boundaries that have been discussed, availability during the times I can escape life easily. I can determine if the girl is a wannabe escort with the title in less than 6 text messages on most encounters, I don't really care if that's what she wants, as long as there is no timer ticking down and she checks the boxes I look for.[/QUOTE]If a guy is an attorney, doctor, or other high earner who is married and billing $300 to $500 per hour it's worth the premium to have an SB mature enough to understand the game, discrete, able to accommodate a flexible schedule, has a nice body, and hot in the sack. Notice I didn't say "easy to talk to" because that may or may not matter to some guys.

But high earner married guys have a fucking lot to lose if their hobby is found out. An extra $100 PPM on top of the normal $200 to $300 is worth every penny to have their cake and eat it too. A high earner will (not can, but will) lose hundreds of thousands in retirement, home equity, child support, and alimony if he gets caught because he saved a couple hundred per month using a young, hot but immature chick that outed him because he didn't return her text fast enough.

The game isn't about younger versus older. The game is really single guys who can survive being outed versus married guys that can't and they should pay the premium to prevent it. Yes, to paying the extra $100 ppm to prevent the alternative.

Safe Hunting.

[QUOTE=Viktor213;7527002]If a guy is an attorney, doctor, or other high earner who is married and billing $300 to $500 per hour it's worth the premium to have an SB mature enough to understand the game, discrete, able to accommodate a flexible schedule, has a nice body, and hot in the sack. Notice I didn't say "easy to talk to" because that may or may not matter to some guys.

But high earner married guys have a fucking lot to lose if their hobby is found out. An extra $100 PPM on top of the normal $200 to $300 is worth every penny to have their cake and eat it too. A high earner will (not can, but will) lose hundreds of thousands in retirement, home equity, child support, and alimony if he gets caught because he saved a couple hundred per month using a young, hot but immature chick that outed him because he didn't return her text fast enough.

The game isn't about younger versus older. The game is really single guys who can survive being outed versus married guys that can't and they should pay the premium to prevent it. Yes, to paying the extra $100 ppm to prevent the alternative.

Safe Hunting.[/QUOTE]Ever hear of Stormy Daniels and those hush money payments?

Paid her gobs of money to be silent and still talked?

How much you pay, in and of itself, doesn't guarantee any peace of mind. If a chick wants to squawk and out you, she will do just that.

At any age.

[QUOTE=Wleakr;7527153]Ever hear of Stormy Daniels and those hush money payments?

Paid her gobs of money to be silent and still talked?

How much you pay, in and of itself, doesn't guarantee any peace of mind. If a chick wants to squawk and out you, she will do just that.

At any age.[/QUOTE]Married guys with something to lose (hopefully) don't move like single guys. Married guys have doctored pics, burner phones, secret bank cards and cash stashes, carefully planned calendars, and all kinds of James Bond spy shit to hide his real name and address from the SB. Hopefully that means the properly compensated SB doesn't ask a lot of questions, doesn't require public dates or outings, can be at the hotel when scheduled on a tight window, provides good service, and has to wait for contact from the married guy cause he ain't checking the burner every day. This does support the idea of the slightly more mature 30-year old SB cause she's been a side check before and is all about the bread but I digress.

Never the less, ain't no talking if the SB doesn't have "John's" real name, real number, or socials.

[QUOTE=Viktor213;7527262]Married guys with something to lose (hopefully) don't move like single guys. Married guys have doctored pics, burner phones, secret bank cards and cash stashes, carefully planned calendars, and all kinds of James Bond spy shit to hide his real name and address from the SB. Hopefully that means the properly compensated SB doesn't ask a lot of questions, doesn't require public dates or outings, can be at the hotel when scheduled on a tight window, provides good service, and has to wait for contact from the married guy cause he ain't checking the burner every day. This does support the idea of the slightly more mature 30-year old SB cause she's been a side check before and is all about the bread but I digress.

Never the less, ain't no talking if the SB doesn't have "John's" real name, real number, or socials.[/QUOTE]All active high earners don't have the time to do all the spy stuff you suggest. Maybe some of it.

And if you are truly single, I'm doubtful there is even a need to be in the sugar bowl. Wasn't something I ever thought of while single because, as you mention, there's nothing to hide from.

So the only "single" guys we're speaking of are those with significant others and / or families they simply aren't legally married to.

In which case, they have some of the same things to lose as a married guy, especially if they meet the definition of common law marraige.

I do agree. Keep yourself anonymous and there's no issue.

We could all move on from this convo and get back to sharing actual info on girls if everyone would just realize that we all have different criteria and stop telling people they are wrong for the amount they are paying whether it's your not paying enough or you should never pay a premium for XYZ. Different people have different motives and different resources and different tastes.

Any of you guys have any insights to local sugar babies that are into anal? Seems all the ones that I've spoken to so far have a hard no on backdoor play.

[QUOTE=2me4Looking2;7527523]We could all move on from this convo and get back to sharing actual info on girls if everyone would just realize that we all have different criteria and stop telling people they are wrong for the amount they are paying whether it's your not paying enough or you should never pay a premium for XYZ. Different people have different motives and different resources and different tastes.[/QUOTE]Obviously, everyone doesn't "just realize" that hence the need for the discussion. Intel isn't just about the girls it's also the price paid for the girls right? But yeah, let's move on.

[QUOTE=Rican2323;7527765]Any of you guys have any insights to local sugar babies that are into anal? Seems all the ones that I've spoken to so far have a hard no on backdoor play.[/QUOTE]Prior intel mentioned this one as an option. Have chatted with her myself and think she's legit for it.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/87f070dd-8f90-43b3-b5ce-f81c0d5cb623[/URL]

Safe Hunting.

[QUOTE=Viktor213;7527813]Prior intel mentioned this one as an option. Have chatted with her myself and think she's legit for it.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/87f070dd-8f90-43b3-b5ce-f81c0d5cb623[/URL]

Safe Hunting.[/QUOTE]She absolutly loves it. And she has toys to prove it. For a bargain ppm if you play it right.

[QUOTE=Airmantroy;7528037]She absolutly loves it. And she has toys to prove it. For a bargain ppm if you play it right.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I reached out to her a week ago or so. She told me that whatever hotel she was at stole all of her things and toys. So I am not sure if she is living in hotels. If she does that's a red flag for me!

[QUOTE=Rican2323;7528472]Yeah, I reached out to her a week ago or so. She told me that whatever hotel she was at stole all of her things and toys. So I am not sure if she is living in hotels. If she does that's a red flag for me![/QUOTE]She moves around from hotel to hotel. Others have said she isn't a pro, but that's definitely not normal.

[QUOTE=2me4Looking2;7528639]She moves around from hotel to hotel. Others have said she isn't a pro, but that's definitely not normal.[/QUOTE]Her ad says 43 but I'm guessing at least 53 judging by the photos? For real anyone know?