Thunderdome

[QUOTE=HornyAsHell;2118533]Ahh, look all you real mongers chatting woke up the stupid ass cocksucking troublemaking lurker. Look what you've done. Now you all need to apologize IMMEDIATELY so the dumb twat can GO THE FUCK AWAY again like he should. He needs to go back to hibernating and beating off in his mama's basement waiting for opportunities to crawl out, change his nasty diaper and spew his drivel.

Even though he's listed as a "senior member" anyone with two brain cells knows he a totally useless piece of shit! He has NEVER brought nothing to this forum or any forum and NEVER will. What a fucking waste, and now that he's out well probably see the other trouble making assholes that attacked (FOR NO REASON) most of the contributing guys here and drove them away and ruined the boards.[/QUOTE]I would like to see what the miserable prick (srtmdc) is crying about this time, but unfortunately AD2 put him on my ignor list, so unless someone copies his bullshit & posts it I can only guess.

[QUOTE=HornyAsHell;2118533]Ahh, look all you real mongers chatting woke up the stupid ass cocksucking troublemaking lurker. Look what you've done. Now you all need to apologize IMMEDIATELY so the dumb twat can GO THE FUCK AWAY again like he should. He needs to go back to hibernating and beating off in his mama's basement waiting for opportunities to crawl out, change his nasty diaper and spew his drivel.

Even though he's listed as a "senior member" anyone with two brain cells knows he a totally useless piece of shit! He has NEVER brought nothing to this forum or any forum and NEVER will. What a fucking waste, and now that he's out well probably see the other trouble making assholes that attacked (FOR NO REASON) most of the contributing guys here and drove them away and ruined the boards.[/QUOTE]Seems that you don't like me. That's stinks I'm SOOOOOOO upset.

Don't really want to defend srtmdc, but he made what amounts to a dog barking at a passerby and you guys ganged up on him. How about you hold your fire and put your dicks back in your pants and wait until he says something stupid before having a pissing contest.

I will now go back to the Strip Club Thread rafters.

There's absolutely no defending a TOTALLY USELESS PIECE OF SHIT ASSHOLE that brings nothing to the table EVER and does nothing but yap at all the ones that do bring things to the table. If the douchebag just went away the world would be a MUCH better place. He's like one of the stupid annoying little ass teacup sized ankle biters that think they're all that when they're NOTHING.

Bottom line= either contribute or shut up you cocksucking whiner.

[QUOTE=Geffe71;2119668]Don't really want to defend srtmdc, but he made what amounts to a dog barking at a passerby and you guys ganged up on him. How about you hold your fire and put your dicks back in your pants and wait until he says something stupid before having a pissing contest.

I will now go back to the Strip Club Thread rafters.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Yellowfever023;2118842]Ok, so maybe I can't read but it is very obvious that you can't get any ass in a strip club LOL, I bet you couldn't get a HJ at Mike Williams jack shack.[/QUOTE]You can believe whatever you want. Maybe I am just getting more selective in my 'old age' so don't drool over any dancer who looks in my direction, but I'll happily admit that while I've gotten a lot of things in strip clubs, 'ass' is one thing I definitely haven't gotten in a strip club.

[QUOTE=Yellowfever023;2118842]LE knows what is going on at all these clubs and spa's they don't need to read this forum to get the info. Not posting information defeats the purpose of this website. Think about it you fucking nit wit![/QUOTE]Hey gee, thanks for spelling it out for me I never thought about it like that. So tell me this then Mr. Genius. Since LE knows exactly what is going on WHY THE HELL does everyone on the forums use acronyms and retarded shorthand for dollar amounts? Oh right, it's not to provide a level of obscurity no that would be too logical, I am sure it's just a neat secret 'code' we use so we can all feel like we are part of an exclusive club. Dumbass.

[QUOTE=iamioman;2119805]You can believe whatever you want. Maybe I am just getting more selective in my 'old age' so don't drool over any dancer who looks in my direction, but I'll happily admit that while I've gotten a lot of things in strip clubs, 'ass' is one thing I definitely haven't gotten in a strip club.

Hey gee, thanks for spelling it out for me I never thought about it like that. So tell me this then Mr. Genius. Since LE knows exactly what is going on WHY THE HELL does everyone on the forums use acronyms and retarded shorthand for dollar amounts? Oh right, it's not to provide a level of obscurity no that would be too logical, I am sure it's just a neat secret 'code' we use so we can all feel like we are part of an exclusive club. Dumbass.[/QUOTE] Your logic is skewed, I don't know why I am even responding to you.

[QUOTE=iamioman;2119805]You can believe whatever you want. Maybe I am just getting more selective in my 'old age' so don't drool over any dancer who looks in my direction, but I'll happily admit that while I've gotten a lot of things in strip clubs, 'ass' is one thing I definitely haven't gotten in a strip club.

Hey gee, thanks for spelling it out for me I never thought about it like that. So tell me this then Mr. Genius. Since LE knows exactly what is going on WHY THE HELL does everyone on the forums use acronyms and retarded shorthand for dollar amounts? Oh right, it's not to provide a level of obscurity no that would be too logical, I am sure it's just a neat secret 'code' we use so we can all feel like we are part of an exclusive club. Dumbass.[/QUOTE]I believe most of us simply use the acronyms for abbreviation. If I use an acronym I surely am under no illusion that anyone reading it can figure out what I'm saying. If you really feel that it's being obscure and fooling LE whose very nature of their job is to read between the lines then you are dumber than a box of rocks. After all the name of the site is "UsaSEXguide". I don't think LE has to enlist the help of any NSA professional codebreakers to figure out what's going on whether someone posts details or prefers the PM process. I love when the HJ guys write "I left happy" and think they're not providing details. That phrase alone speaks volumes.

And who is talking about not being selective when it comes to finding dancers providing extras? Incorrect assumption on your part. I don't go with one simply because she may offer extras. I always seek out the ones that appeal to my tastes and work on them. I am not so desperate or foolish to go with any dancer and I'm certainly not willing to spend the ridiculous amount of $ that I read about some guys paying.

[QUOTE=Geffe71;2119668]Don't really want to defend srtmdc, but he made what amounts to a dog barking at a passerby and you guys ganged up on him. How about you hold your fire and put your dicks back in your pants and wait until he says something stupid before having a pissing contest.

I will now go back to the Strip Club Thread rafters.[/QUOTE]These guy's are upset at me because I called out a "senior" a couple of months ago. I guess that is NO NO around these here parts. Adios boy's! I'm going back to lurking!

I'm done wasting my time with the useless asshole. All I have to say to anyone that wants to know the TRUTH is to click on his handle and then click on view his posts and judge yourself what his so called posts are like. When you do that you'll find 58 "posts" that bring nothing at all to the site but trouble. Some of them were rightfully deleted by Admin2 for just plain being argumentative and a waste of bandwidth.

IMHO they are ALL a waste of bandwidth. He claims he "called out" a senior but it really was just an senseless attack by the useless scum. When others pointed that out you'll find like a dozen posts were he calls people "butt hurt".

How about you grow the fuck up?? Little teens use that expression NOT ADULTS and now you're going back to lurking?? You're the scum that makes it hard for new people to be taken seriously and to build some credibility. We were all new at one point but we manned up and CONTRIBUTED and eventually EARNED a rep as an honest monger. You'll NEVER reach that point ever.

Others right now are new but are doing it the right way and are asking questions (which is OK versus begging for handouts) and contributing what they can. You should have tried that asshole. Well at least you made the perfect case for others what NOT TO DO.

[QUOTE=HornyAsHell;2119752]There's absolutely no defending a TOTALLY USELESS PIECE OF SHIT ASSHOLE that brings nothing to the table EVER and does nothing but yap at all the ones that do bring things to the table. If the douchebag just went away the world would be a MUCH better place. He's like one of the stupid annoying little ass teacup sized ankle biters that think they're all that when they're NOTHING.

Bottom line= either contribute or shut up you cocksucking whiner.[/QUOTE]

[blue][deleted by admin][/blue]
[b][u]editor's note[/u]:[/b] [blue]this report was edited to [u]remove references to **** persons[/u].

i am aware that the vast majority of references to **** girls are legitimate attempts to warn other fellow members about how easy it is to accidentally pickup an **** girls, the potential dangers of being caught with **** girls, etc. however, past discussions in the forum has repeatedly demonstrated that the subject simply cannot be discussed intelligently, in any form or for any reason, without being misinterpreted, and without starting flame wars.

please do not post references to **** persons in the forum. [i]thanks![/i][/blue]

[QUOTE=ReiHaragoma;2131269]I'd like to suggest that this apparent hard-on you have for Larry be used instead for some nice K-pussy, as most men would be prone to do.[/QUOTE]Hi Rei,

Pull your dick out of the Papasons ass, spit his jizz out of your mouth and go fuck yourself.

[QUOTE=Yellowfever023;2131652]Hi Rei,

Pull your dick out of the Papasons ass, spit his jizz out of your mouth and go fuck yourself.[/QUOTE]In spite of having a PhD in Human Behavior and Design, I continue to be amazed at the need of fimicolous individuals such as yourself; often suffering from a Napoleon Complex or Amentia (or both,) to utilize a need to resort to profanity in order to express themselves; whereas well-schooled individuals are cognizant that the Mother Tongue has within it, a superfluity of non-profane words that allow one to express oneself without a need for words of a profane nature.

Sadly, it is apparent that this linguistic skill has evaded you, resulting in no other way to express yourself in an intelligent, meaningful way other than that which you have demonstrated here.

I shall pray for you.

[QUOTE=ReiHaragoma;2132327]In spite of having a PhD in Human Behavior and Design, I continue to be amazed at the need of fimicolous individuals such as yourself; often suffering from a Napoleon Complex or Amentia (or both,) to utilize a need to resort to profanity in order to express themselves; whereas well-schooled individuals are cognizant that the Mother Tongue has within it, a superfluity of non-profane words that allow one to express oneself without a need for words of a profane nature.

Sadly, it is apparent that this linguistic skill has evaded you, resulting in no other way to express yourself in an intelligent, meaningful way other than that which you have demonstrated here.

I shall pray for you.[/QUOTE]Now why should the vocabulary matter here? After all this is Thunderdome and it is simply about getting your point across. You are revealing yourself to be somewhat of a self absorbed narcissist. And it doesn't take a PHD to see from your post that you are one of those who must always think he is the smartest person in the room. At least that's what I see with my High School education. It's actually quite easy to read between the lines. Larry must be smitten with your charm and intellectual prowess. PHD notwithstanding, on this site you're just a needy HJ guy and Larry sycophant and your post is rather douchey to coin an A2 phrase.

[QUOTE=Yellowfever023;2131652]Hi Rei,

Pull your dick out of the Papasons ass, spit his jizz out of your mouth and go fuck yourself.[/QUOTE]I don't usually come in here, but this is quite entertaining.

Peace.

[QUOTE=ReiHaragoma;2132327]In spite of having a PhD in Human Behavior and Design, I continue to be amazed at the need of fimicolous individuals such as yourself; often suffering from a Napoleon Complex or Amentia (or both,) to utilize a need to resort to profanity in order to express themselves; whereas well-schooled individuals are cognizant that the Mother Tongue has within it, a superfluity of non-profane words that allow one to express oneself without a need for words of a profane nature.

Sadly, it is apparent that this linguistic skill has evaded you, resulting in no other way to express yourself in an intelligent, meaningful way other than that which you have demonstrated here.

I shall pray for you.[/QUOTE]Shit Rei, I had to go look for a dictionary.

[QUOTE=ReiHaragoma;2132327]In spite of having a PhD in Human Behavior and Design, I continue to be amazed at the need of fimicolous individuals such as yourself; often suffering from a Napoleon Complex or Amentia (or both,) to utilize a need to resort to profanity in order to express themselves; whereas well-schooled individuals are cognizant that the Mother Tongue has within it, a superfluity of non-profane words that allow one to express oneself without a need for words of a profane nature.

Sadly, it is apparent that this linguistic skill has evaded you, resulting in no other way to express yourself in an intelligent, meaningful way other than that which you have demonstrated here.

I shall pray for you.[/QUOTE]Rei, In spite of your assumptions I happen to be very well educated. All that you seem to have achieved with your education is an elitist attitude and an air of scumbag entitlement. It seems that your really did not get much from your education because if you did you would not follow the crowd, you would be an individual who would have the power of independent thought but alas you seem to be lacking in this area. Maybe if you reflect a bit you will realize that you obviously feel that you are better than everyone else, remember admitting that you have a problem is half the battle.

P.S. Take your PhD and show it to Larry, I am sure he will be the only one impressed by it.

For your sinful ways I guess he's not a legit monger, but a devote religious man out to convert you all LOL.

[QUOTE=Yardape08;2132412]Now why should the vocabulary matter here? After all this is Thunderdome and it is simply about getting your point across.[/QUOTE]I think Rei got his point across just fine. No need to scrape your knuckles on the ground to enter this forum.

[QUOTE=Yellowfever023;2131652]Hi Rei,

Pull your dick out of the Papasons ass, spit his jizz out of your mouth and go fuck yourself.[/QUOTE]For someone who claims to be "very well educated", it doesn't show when you respond to a harmless post like Rei's was, in the manner that you did. Just sayin.

[QUOTE=SmokeScreen;2133084]For someone who claims to be "very well educated", it doesn't show when you respond to a harmless post like Rei's was, in the manner that you did. Just sayin.[/QUOTE]Smoke, Below is the post that started it. I am educated enough to know when someone is directing their condescending attitude towards me. He chose to make his comment and I responded. Then he pulls out his PhD which is typical elitist behavior, he states that I may have a Napoleonic complex among other things yet he is condescending to me, what complex heading does that fall under?

[QUOTE=ReiHaragoma;2131269]I'd like to suggest that this apparent hard-on you have for Larry be used instead for some nice K-pussy, as most men would be prone to do.[/QUOTE]

Internet fight!

[QUOTE=Yardape08;2133678] Boakang Plymouth MA Annie-very first visit with her DFK, Daty, almost hour long teasing $50 house fee $50 tip. All accomplished on first visit with a little flirting and going in for the Dfk right away. Nude HJ finish with unlimited roaming. Also indicated more could be had.

Deanna's Thai Massage Weymouth MA Nadia.

Real GFE not watered down NMS GFE version DFK FIV BBBJCIM prolonged Daty really sensual massage enjoys herself and let's you know it. House $80 Tip $40. [/QUOTE]WOW! All that for a mere $40 to $50 tip, eh? Why would anyone from MA come to our little state then? And yet they do?

[QUOTE=FlyDangler;2133702]WOW! All that for a mere $40 to $50 tip, eh? Why would anyone from MA come to our little state then? And yet they do?[/QUOTE]One reason why guys from mass may come down there for an HJ is because they live closer to Prov than they do to Boston, Quincy or Plymouth.

Another reason is all the hyped up reviews about NMS and other places. For example when a monger reads a review and see's the term GFE it makes them think more can be had when in reality there is no such thing as GFE at HJ spa's, the only difference between a jack shacks in RI vs MA is geography and maybe the verbal BJ by Papason Larry. The bottom line is that many mongers from Mass are duped into driving down to Prov based on over inflated reviews that are posted about NMS and other places.

A lot of you guys seem to want what you can't have so you try to bring the term GFE to a jack shack, GFE stands for GIRL FRIEND EXPERIENCE, Now I don't know what kind of girl friend would limit you to a HJ and some OTC roaming but I assure you she would not be my girl friend for long.

I think a new term should be created to describe a jack shack experience, here is my suggestion "PLE" which stands for a Papason Larry Experience, just a suggestion to get the ball rolling.

[QUOTE=OreoCookie;2133010]I think Rei got his point across just fine. No need to scrape your knuckles on the ground to enter this forum.[/QUOTE]Oh I get it, you and Rei must have showered together between classes while attending Grad school.

[QUOTE=LaserKing;2133356]Can you give us one example? NMS has beautiful girls and they lay with you while play with junior, I want to know what do you consider better (Admiral does not count, they are up to par).[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ChoirBoy;2133462]Excellent! Where might they be?[/QUOTE]Do you guy's ever leave RI?

[QUOTE=Yellowfever023;2133734]Do you guy's ever leave RI?[/QUOTE]Can't you just shut up for a few weeks. Better yet just go away forever.

You and yardape need a life.

Bigstar1.

[QUOTE=Yellowfever023;2133724] the only difference between a jack shacks in RI vs MA is geography and maybe the verbal BJ by Papason Larry [/QUOTE]That's not what Yardape08 claims in his last post here, not by a long shot. Are you now calling him a liar?

[QUOTE=Deb4512;2132904]For your sinful ways I guess he's not a legit monger, but a devote religious man out to convert you all LOL.[/QUOTE]Oh I think you're wrong, he is a devote monger for sure.

[QUOTE=FlyDangler;2133803]That's not what Yardape08 claims in his last post here, not by a long shot. Are you now calling him a liar?[/QUOTE]Fly, I am not calling anyone a liar, the places that YardApe refers too are places I have been to also. I think what YA was trying to say is that you guy's try to make NMS out to be the end all be all of AMP's, bottom line is that it is not and there are other places that are better with extras that fall short of FS yet you guy's use the term GFE at NMS and don't even get close to the actual meaning of the term and these other places you can get closer. And then there is the obsession with Papason Larry and being his butt buddy. It seems to me that you guy's are more interested in spending time with Larry than with a girl.

Again the bottom line is that there is not one thing that sets NMS apart from other jack shacks, as a matter of fact rated against the places YA mentions NMS would be rated sub par. GFE is more than a HJ which is all you can get at NMS unless you way over tip.

[QUOTE=BigStar1;2133773]Can't you just shut up for a few weeks. Better yet just go away forever.

You and yardape need a life.

Bigstar1.[/QUOTE]Thunderdome.

[QUOTE=BigStar1;2133773]Can't you just shut up for a few weeks. Better yet just go away forever.

You and yardape need a life.

Bigstar1.[/QUOTE]Brownstar, It is you and the other NMS suck ups that need a life. I am not the one that is stuck on one or two HJ spa's. I get out there and try different places, finding several UTR girls that give true GFE not HJ's. Come to think of it I have never had a girl friend or my ex wife give me a HJ.

I almost forgot, go climb back under your rock or better yet Larry's parking lot.

[QUOTE=Yellowfever023;2133868]Brownstar, It is you and the other NMS suck ups that need a life. I am not the one that is stuck on one or two HJ spa's. I get out there and try different places, finding several UTR girls that give true GFE not HJ's. Come to think of it I have never had a girl friend or my ex wife give me a HJ.

I almost forgot, go climb back under your rock or better yet Larry's parking lot.[/QUOTE]Until all this fighting started over the HJ shops I thought I was the only one sitting here scratching my head wondering what possibly could be so great about a 40 something year old fully clothed Korean HJ? One thought was that there must be wayyyyy more available to the right guy who is a regular there, maybe topless, maybe a bit of BJ a bit of HIV or something as I just can not understand how any HJ can be so much better then any other so as to rant and rave about it here on a public forum!

I stopped reading the massage forum as all it was about is NMS and Admiral and how fucking great the HJ is. Damn, its a late 30- early 40 woman, tugging away fully clothed and maybe, just maybe you might get some OTC rubbing. What fucking torture! Granted, I'm a FS guy, but I have been to both NMS and Admiral a few times, I go more for the massage then anything else as most the time its better then the FS girl.

I have to agree with Yellow and Yard, you NMS / Admiral lovers need to cool it a bit, to me it looks like you get some form of incentive from Larry to rant a rave online here about his shop! We get it, these girls have the best HJ's in the history of the world, that fact has been driven across over the past year of relentless useless posts you guys have made, if anything I don't think I will ever go back there due to all the shilling done here!

BTW- The FS spa's are still alive and well and offering up FULL GFE ++ excitement for not much more then you guys are paying for your "GFE Clothed HJ's" LMAO.

Yellow -Look at your PM's for some valuable info on a new girl I think you really will like.

Muffy.

[QUOTE=BigStar1;2133773]Can't you just shut up for a few weeks. Better yet just go away forever.

You and yardape need a life.

Bigstar1.[/QUOTE]Somebody has to keep you guys honest and protect the newbies from misinformation. You and your buddies don't own the Prov threads. What's the problem you are still allowed to write whatever you want about NMS however exaggerated and there is nothing you can do to stop us from offering our opinions. I'm sure you guys would love to censor us but last I checked this isn't the Soviet Union and this site isn't like Pravda where you guys are allowed to run a propaganda machine. The more information the better good or bad in m opinion. What exactly are you afraid of?

Has anyone else here noticed that, although they do like to tag team on stuff saying much the same thing and making much the same claims, Yellowfever023 and Yardape08 never seem to be online at the same time (although very often it seems one comes on right after the other). They also seem to have the same writing style. Very suspicious don't you think? Could it be they are really the same person using multiple forum names, there seems to be at least as much indication of that as there is about both their allegations about MW88.

[QUOTE=FlyDangler;2134055]Has anyone else here noticed that, although they do like to tag team on stuff saying much the same thing and making much the same claims, Yellowfever023 and Yardape08 never seem to be online at the same time (although very often it seems one comes on right after the other). They also seem to have the same writing style. Very suspicious don't you think? Could it be they are really the same person using multiple forum names, there seems to be at least as much indication of that as there is about both their allegations about MW88.[/QUOTE]Hey Fly, Why don't you ask Admin to check if YA and I are the same person? I am sure checking the IP address will tell them, I have nothing to hide.

Fly, both YA and I agree on a thing or too, mainly that NMS sucks, Larry Sucks, MW88 sucks and you suck too.

A2 if you are reading this feel free to confirm.

[QUOTE=FlyDangler;2134055]Has anyone else here noticed that, although they do like to tag team on stuff saying much the same thing and making much the same claims, Yellowfever023 and Yardape08 never seem to be online at the same time (although very often it seems one comes on right after the other). They also seem to have the same writing style. Very suspicious don't you think? Could it be they are really the same person using multiple forum names, there seems to be at least as much indication of that as there is about both their allegations about MW88.[/QUOTE]
Has anyone noticed that all the NMS suck ups all say the same thing? Maybe they are all the same people.

[QUOTE=FlyDangler;2134055]Has anyone else here noticed that, although they do like to tag team on stuff saying much the same thing and making much the same claims, Yellowfever023 and Yardape08 never seem to be online at the same time (although very often it seems one comes on right after the other). They also seem to have the same writing style. Very suspicious don't you think? Could it be they are really the same person using multiple forum names, there seems to be at least as much indication of that as there is about both their allegations about MW88.[/QUOTE]Allegations about Mikewilliams88? Try facts about him and his alterego fraud Larry. They're the only two sharing their identities here that I know of. YF and I actually paid a visit to NMS at the same time after visiting a Providence strip club. Much to our chagrin the great Larry was not there to greet us. We were hoping to meet him and serve him a warrant for impersonating MikeWilliams88. Maybe he slid out a side door to evade us.

[QUOTE=Yardape08;2134072]Allegations about Mikewilliams88? Try facts about him and his alterego fraud Larry. They're the only two sharing their identities here that I know of. YF and I actually paid a visit to NMS at the same time after visiting a Providence strip club. Much to our chagrin the great Larry was not there to greet us. We were hoping to meet him and serve him a warrant for impersonating MikeWilliams88. Maybe he slid out a side door to evade us.[/QUOTE]I heard he was out buying more restrictive clothing for the girls when we were there, If I remember it was Auntie Larry that met us at the door.

[QUOTE=Yardape08;2134072]Allegations about Mikewilliams88? Try facts about him and his alterego fraud Larry. [/QUOTE]Facts? What facts?

All I've seen to date are allegations from two Massholes who seem to be basing it on hearsay, and one cryptic note from A2 that said little and proved nothing. Nothing substantial, much less factual at all.

[QUOTE=Yellowfever023;2134062]Hey Fly, Why don't you ask Admin to check if YA and I are the same person? I am sure checking the IP address will tell them, I have nothing to hide. [/QUOTE]Why? IP addresses are easily overcome using different devices (e. G. Mobile phone vs networked device). So how would he know one way or the other? And now that you see these suspicions it wouldn't be surprising to see you both on at the same time using different types of devices to throw anyone further off.

I'm sure y'all are too slick to slip up like that. Just the same we DO seem to have about the same amount of circumstantial evidence against you two as there is towards the guy you and your butt buddy keep flaming here.

[QUOTE=FlyDangler;2134055]Has anyone else here noticed that, although they do like to tag team on stuff saying much the same thing and making much the same claims, Yellowfever023 and Yardape08 never seem to be online at the same time (although very often it seems one comes on right after the other). They also seem to have the same writing style. Very suspicious don't you think? Could it be they are really the same person using multiple forum names, there seems to be at least as much indication of that as there is about both their allegations about MW88.[/QUOTE]I' ve had the same thoughts a while ago, but now, I don't think so. It's funny though, One seems to be a mouthpiece for the other, not that the other needs it, he's mouthy enough.