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"This is why about every post I mention that everything I post here is basically made up. And seriously it is!"
We know GT, we KNOW!
As I see it (and I'm not directly responding to your post GT) is that we are in no danger here from LE. Admitting to a crime is not grounds for prosecution. There needs to be proof. Then LE would have to supeona our IP addresses and track us down. Then they would need to track down a SW who is using a street name and get her to confess that she was engaged in prostitution. They would have to prove she was working that night and that you indeed picked her up and that sex occurred and that money was exchanged. And they have to prove that you weren't just BS'ing us all. Then they would have to take all this to the prosecutor and prove it in court. And the SW would have to show up in court. HIGHLY Unlikely. Adding a disclaimer that you're making it up does nothing to help you. If they are battering rammming your door, then you can say it was made up.
All this for a hundred dollar fine. Right. That's why they do sting operations, because they can always catch 15 or 20 morons in a couple of hours for about a kazillion dollars cheaper.
One point I agree on is if you were say comitting armed bank robbery, or some other serious crime, I would not admit it on this board or anywhere else for that matter. But I don't see mongers doing that here. It's all about common sense.
Civ2K
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In reguards to posts on this board, a couple of other things to keep in mind....
Where exactly is this forum located? they would have to file that request for the supina (sp?) in that country/state/province/terrirtory, THEN have to know your IP so they could match your posts to you (again requiring yet an other supina)
THEN, waste dozens of billable man hours sifting through the millions of lines of info just to find your posts on a given day and then match those to any incrimidating evidence that they have to build a case.
The far more easier way to go about this.... Get a court order to sieze your comp, sift through your cache memory (and remember, just cause you clear your cache, doesn't mean it's gone!!) find the sites you visit and your log-on ID and then use that to search out posts...
And as for the speeding ticket issue, a word of advice for ppl who speed in Canada, Don't rely on the cop not showing up as the only reason why not to pay! A ticket in Canada is essentually a forced guilty plea with a fine. You are found guilty of something by the cop and he levies the provincial fine on you ($175 in my province) You CAN appeal this by making a court case and pleading your case to a judge, but by doing so you are removing the charge, the offense, and the fine from a sumary plea to that of the courts whims. IF that cop shos up, and all you have to say in your defence is "I was hoping that he wouldn't show" you can be in big trouble. I have heard of traffic fines going from $175 to $500, from paying a ticket to 60 days in lock up, to even losing the privledge to drive for 5 years!
All in all, I'd have to say be nice and respectfull to the cop. In the end, you lose nothing and at worst gain nothing. Be a jerk, in the end, you gain nothing, and lose everything.
Ask CJ.... How many times did you have some bozo on a simple traffic infraction that was a walk in the park, but the guy was a jerk so you decided to do an on the spot vechile inspection just to delay him longer and drive up the fines? It's happened to me for being a jerk, it can happen to you too.
Also, adding a disclaimer to a post is kinda like walking into an airport and yelling out "BOMB!!!!!!! just joking!" you're still in a world of hurt and in deep shit. Disclaimers are great for civil suits as I understand it (being as I am not an american and can't have a civil suit filed against me anyways with out a felony charge) but in a Felony, the disclaimer means nothing, except to dig deeper to see what's under the surface and see if there is somthing nastier to charge you with!
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As for the US charging citizens for out of country mongering. that's a hard one. I know from new reports that the US has a law in place to do so, but I believe that was inplace for sex with minors. Also, I don't see how they could really inforce it, unless you were caught in the other country and charged there. After all, it's not like you have a huge sign over your head that says "I just had sex for cash in a other country!" Also, I don;t see how the US could charge you for sex with a (US) minor IF the woman was of legal age in her country. After all, if no crime has been committed in the forien (miss-spelled I know...) country, how can they charge you in the US.
Mind you, it's been my experience that the US does as it damn well pleases, reguardless of the sovereign rights and laws of other countries. (not meant to flame US citizens... just my POV)
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Hello All,
Being a class "A" asshole doesn't always guarantee a bad time with the LEO but it's probably safe to say that 99.9% of the time you shall be duly shat upon and you deserve it. I personally have many incidents wherein Adam Henry got nailed for being an Adam Henry when if he had just tried being a regular human being he would have been treated like one.
Here's an experiment GT: Go into the nearest McDonalds, walk up to the order clerk, and (while being a class "A" Adam Henry) order your big mac. Note the responses and the manner in which you are treated. Any different from the nice guys? {Insert Your Answer Here.}
Now explain why cops should treat you differently?
Gt has demonstrated that his posts are not to be believed. He has lied, refused to post the names of the multiple aliases I'm "using" and also refuses to name the software he "used" to catch my "Other ID's." The guy is a wanker-straight up. The best thing he could do is just move on to a "chat line" or some other forum. If he does have useful information to post it is hidden deep within his lies and falsehoods -you just can't trust him. I understand this and everyone else seems to be coming around as well.
So GT, admit you lied and restore some credibility, in the meantime I for one will pay little attention to his posts.
Canada (where I am from originally) is very different from the USA in terms of law enforcement. In Canada, constables have a great deal of power and they can go a long way before being held accountable for mis-deeds (although they are held accountable when warranted, the parameters are much wider in Canada). The Royal Canadian Mounted Police (who are very well trained and are to be respected) truly have intense enforcement powers. One being the "Writ Of Assistance" under the Criminal Code of Canada which means they can go anywhere, anytime (including your bedroom) if they believe a crime has been committed, is in progress or to preserve evidence. In Canada, law enforcement is a much more closed society than here in the US. You do not fuck with the RCMP, ever.
When you learn that freedom can only exist within barriers, you'll understand why the oness is on you to do what you need to do to keep from getting caught. It is possible, it is do-able, it can be achieved but not if you can't even post a coherent message on this board.
We know that it is a fact that mongering in the USA is illegal. We know that the cops are responsible for enforcing the laws, we know that we monger anyway and we know that the cops enforce the law anyway. What we NEED TO GET STRAIGHT is our tactics. LE get's us when we are exposed. LE trys to expose us with their tactics. What counter measures can you develop to protect yourself? You win some and you will lose some, just like the cops. The cops take their hit when they lose, so will you so it's fair game mate.
I would not get into a flaming session with GT (or even Poki) because his purpose is not to arrive at a mutual understanding but rather to refuse to be wrong in an ongoing arguementative flaming session filled with lies.
You are not dealing with a legit member. Just blah blah blah blah blah. Remember that.
Anyone who says "all cops are bad" or uses generalities in that way obviously is a victim of his own fixed ideas, his inability to be wrong, and unwillingness to accept the reality of a situation. How can you have an intelligent arguement with someone like that? You can't. So Don't try.
I guess as soon as he regains some credibility I'll read hs posts again but until then it's just blah blah blaqh blah. Mindless dribble.
Civ2k is right on with his tactic. There are peole here who have something meaningful to say.
Be Safe and BE NICE
Country John
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Absent international agreements, the US will not persue you for mongering in Mexico. Certain laws regarding sex with minors will be the exception to this rule as well as capital crimes like murder etc. (You can't off someone in Mexico and then flee to the USA to escape prosecution.) The extradition laws come into play here.
The unique thing about sex with a minor is that it's a crime for which you can be arrested in the USA after you return to the USA by USA authorities.
You can't be arrested by the USA authorities for p4p in Mexico.
Be Safe and BE NICE
Country John
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Speaking about bum raps: why all the negativity to pimps? Some of the nicest people I know have been pimps and they help keep the ladies on the straight and narrow. maybe a pimp is merely a wholesale provider without a shop front?
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personally, I view a pimp as the lowest of the low! I can't fathom any way lower to make money then on the back of a woman who is selling her body for sex! It's disgusting! Lower then drug dealers, in my opinion! Most of these guys seriously need a good old fashioned ass whipping!
You can sugar coat it any way you like, but these people are sick!
GETTINGTANG~!
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I have to agree wholeheartedly with GT here. I would put a pimp in the same category with rapists and child molesters. A pimp is usually a guy who is too lazy or stupid to make his own money and has to rely on a woman to make it for him. Sure they help keep the ladies on the straight and narrow by beating them up if they try to leave the profession or don't bring in enough money. They are liars and cowards if you ask me. Personally I don't think Skinless was being serious; rather trying to start a lively discussion.
Civ2K
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So the guys who comfort the lady after you guys CIM, bang her up the butt, 3 hole her, practise your fetishes on her, are the lowest of the low? What about guys who own brothels and make them fuck 20-30 guys a day? Here in Tokyo, the yakuza take 2,000 yen (about $20 a day) from Japanese sws and about 5,000 from non Japanese. The minimum a bonk goes for is 7,000 yen. Sure small time pimps might not be nice but they are renting out the only marketable assets they have. And the women don't mind.
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Skinless, you're point of argument has no basis. These women do not need a pimp to market and sell what they have got! If they sell it and we buy it, this does not even compare and cannot be at the same level of a pimp. A pimp lives and steals from these girls. He is so much of a looser that he has to resort to living off of a female who sells her body to survive! Most all pimp's tools of their trade consist of: control, domination and using fear to get the girls to do as they say. Some even resort to outright kidnapping, assault, raping, beating, drug addicting the girls, threatening their family and or children and yes even killing. These people are worse then the cronies who lead Saddam's regime!
If anyone is "making" a girl work for sex, he is a pig! He is a criminal, scum of the earth! Weather it be in a brothel or being a pimp makes no difference. If the girl so chooses to work in a brothel, and can come and go at free will then this is different. If she is not forced to do anything she does not chose, this is different
You said the women don't mind? Are you for real here?
Skinless, you really need to rethink your stance on this one!
GETTINGTANG~!
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CJ, you keep talking about how we as Monger's have get straight our tactics, because the cops change their tactics to catch us exposed. I just don't understand you sometimes.
I just don't think its all that complicated to pick up an SW and have sex in your car, if that what you like to do. It has been my experience most SW's don't like to be busted having sex in cars.
Some of the methods SW's use to not get caught are, parking far away from the cruising area; parking in a way that you can see see an oncoming car 1/4 mile away, taking off only one pants leg, and pulling up her shirt, head down BJ while driving, makings lots of turns to shake off tails. The same methods have been going on for years. Please tell me what changed excepts for tough unfair laws.( what tactics would you change?)
You know from my earlier post that I don't want prostitution near where I live, and still feel it should still be illegal to a certain extent. I believe prostitution, at least to the "John" should be treated like a white collar crime, for example the way they treat firms and individuals on wallstreet. When they do something wrong, they usually have to pay a small fine, but don't have to admit guilt or wrongdoing.
Just a little side note. I'm a little upset at how to goverment is treating Andrew Fastow, CFO of Enron, and his wife. I like the rest of the country hated what Enron did with the Energy scandal.
I too wanted heads to roll, but they just went too far just like they always do, and will do to even mongers like the rest of us.
In order to get Fastow to accept the 10 year prison sentence, they went after his wife and kids. They got his wife for filing a false tax return, if they both fought the charge and lost, they would lose their kids.
The goverment just goes too far.
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Hey Pokey,
Great post, I agree with almost everything you said except one part. Fastow! This is a man who was behind the scheme that stole tens of million of dollars from everyday common working American citizens. He stole about $6000 of my money. I truly hope this man gets a cell with a big slimy guy named Bubba! He deserves it! Comparing what he did to a little mongering is not right. He knew what would happen and did it anyhow. These thieves on wall street all need to do hard time! WorldCom is next! I have no pity on any of them.
You need to look into the eyes of all the million of blue collar hard working Americans who bought into the idea of a decent retirement someday and these suit wearing better then you and I thieves, stole their dreams! All in the name of pure and absolute GREED!
Personally, I hope the rott in jail!
There I vented and feel better, lol!
GETTINGTANG~!
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Amen GT on Fastow, and on both of them. We're talking about a couple of people who were already rich (Lea Fastow is an heiress)getting greedy and making themselves richer. They will still be rich after both are out of prison -- ooh, they have to give up their vacation homes in Vermont and on the Gulf Coast, and the new $3.3 mil mansion they were building with stolen money, how tragic. She is far from blameless in this, as not only as assistant Enron treasurer but in her direct actions. The truth is that the government went extremely easy on her (Why do you think the judge held up the deal? Because it was too soft!) and is going easy on Fastow only because they think it gets them Kenneth Lay and others. Her plea makes it sound like she didn't do much and was some sort of unwitting schub -- the truth is that's quite far from the case.
Putting prostitution in the same category as people who destroy a company and steal millions of dollars, leaving thousands of people without jobs or pensions, not to mention lost savings, is an insult to hookers and mongers. In my opinion the government didn't go far [i]enough[/i] with these two, though I understand why the deal was made. White collar crime is [i]not[/i] victimless crime and the problem is that white collar criminals aren't treated harshly enough. I've far more sympathy for junkies, who mostly ruin themselves, than I do for those who embezzle, bribe, or defraud, who steal from and ruin the lives of others. People get hurt by all those things as much or more than by someone who steals their car or wallet. That's far, far, different category than paying to get a blowjob, and I resent being lumped in with such scum.
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Country John!
All hooker's must agree to that: There's nothing wrong with having sex in a car or in a hotel. A man who asking a woman to have sex, is thet sem than a man who asking a mechanic to fix a car. if the man will pay for the mechanic so the joon shld pay for a SW
what kind of rights does LE have to control my sexual behavior?
Cops would better serve the public if they focused on crime's like murders, bank robbers, and rapists, and leave all man and girl's who is doing sex in a car or hoel alone.
Be Safe and BE NICE?
If the cops wanna "Be Safe" and wanna meke safe all nice decent man, the she should "BE NICE" to all hooker's!
Her555
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JZ, get off your high horse before you fall. You seem a little elitist to me, I can't imagine you cruising in a car looking for SW's or even speeding in your car.
Now I didn't lump mongers and white collars criminals in the same boat. I was merely saying that mongers should not have to admit guilt or admission of wrongdoing if caugh with a prostitute. In other words they should get a slap on the wrist just like people get on wallstreet.
My post regarding Enron, lets see if I can dig myself out of the hole I put myself in.
JZ, regarding Fastow, I agree he should do jail time, for his crime against shareholders etc, but I also believe the Justice Department should fight fair get him on the merits of the case. They unfairly went after his wife and kids. She was only an assistant treasurer, if she wasn't his wife, they would have never went after her. Ten years is a lot of years, after all Milliken, and Boesky only served two years, previous to this almost no one went to jail.
Hey, Im sorry people lost their jobs and pensions, but Fastow, wasn't alone, and Im not just talking about Kenny Boy, and Skilling either.
The White House knew Enron was going to collapse but did nothing to stop it, nor warn the shareholders about it. The VP Cheney, with Enrons helped shape the country energy policy.
There are lots of reason why Enron failed, besides Fastow making side bets for himself.
One, De-regulation, they now had to compete in the market place.
Two, derivative contracts, options, and have to mark to the market accounting. Derivatives are very risky.
Three, Special purpose entity(SPE) They had to keep debt off the balance sheets in order to obtain a favorable rating.( this is why they hired Fastow)
Four, the goverment, because of big donations, allowed firms like Arthur Anderson, to both audit, and consult, with firms. This created a conflict of interest.
GT, now you can blame Bush for allowing illegal aliens in this country ( Immigration proposal), and for standing by and letting you lose $6000, because he didn't want to be linked to the scandal.( Kenny gave money to Bush big time.)
