"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[JZLizard]

This is what I was talking about in my previous plea for those with game to expand on what they are doing. I'm doing OK getting them to a M&G, it's the next step that is problematic.

It's not easily described in my case. I would say that what I refer to as "my game" is probably about 90% psychology and just putting general experience with women into practice. I decided I didn't like women being in charge of me sometime around the 8th grade when I had an unruly GF who was a skilled manipulator. I think the hard knocks of that experience forced me to focus on what worked and what didn't. Then with every subsequent girl I just looked at it as a learning experience. I still do. The rules change over time so I'm still constantly figuring women out, but there are of course some fundamentals of how they think that remain pretty much constant.

That understanding of how they think, what makes them tick, etc. Is what determines everything that comes out of your mouth, all of your body language, etc. And ultimately, it determines whether you get laid or not -- that's true of the sugar world or any kind of dating.

Yes, looks matter, and they can give you an edge or put you at a disadvantage. But they mainly matter to attract them to the initial meeting. She already knows if she would fuck you or not by looking at your pic, and since she showed up for the M&G then it means it's possible. Possible and guaranteed are two different things of course. She can vote "yes" based on your pic, but decide to back out or pull a GPS attitude or whatever based on your behavior after you meet.

I can't really put together a rulebook for what I do, because it's different in every situation. Being able to adapt the conversation to an individual is just a social skill that takes practice. It may come easier for some than others, but you can't really develop it without practicing it. I had plenty of failures along the way, everyone does.

So, to be honest, there is no magic to getting them in the FC. Usually around the type dinner / drinks are over (or whatever we are doing, maybe at a club), I usually just ask point blank if they're coming back to my room with me. Sometimes I don't even have to ask, it's just a given that they will follow me back. But most of the psychological stuff I mentioned has already taken place by that time. I'm "operating" so to speak the whole time, from the initial e-mail where we're figuring everything out to the M&G where we are getting to know each other a little bit before we fuck.

So, for that reason I'm inclined to think that the fact you see the F&see as a next step in the sequence might be the problem. I see it more or less as the reward or payoff for a successful working of the game, it's not something that in itself needs effort exerted toward it. Maybe if you view the entire process of meeting (from initial text / mail to the M&G itself) as the real work to be done, the FC reward will come more naturally?

[DogSun]

The newest member on SA in my area is currently serving time in prison. But don't worry, she'll be out in 6 months. Apparently, her aunt is running the account for her. Based on her pics, I'm pretty sure she might try to shank me during our M&G.

[HollywoodGuy]

At least in my area the AA babies FAR outnumber the rest in the field.

In L. A. They are 10% of the population and 30% of the profiles.

[VaGuy68]

Ok I re-did my profile and casted a wider net. FISH ON!

POT 1 21 yo very cute and slim. Wants to meet for coffee tomorrow. It's about a 45 min ride. Lives in a redneck town and has a kid. Seems nonchalant. UTR maybe?

POT 2 - 22 yo heavier than I usually go for but I'm a sucker (pun intended) for big tits. She just can't understand why guys on SA are asking her to go to the FC right away! She's not a prostitute and it makes her feel uncomfortable. I told her to never mind those nasty guys and we can chat about it over a M&G.

POT 3 - 35 yo athletic and very attractive. Travels a lot and looking for something every once in awhile. Right up my alley. Working on a M&G.

Finally a little action.

[JoeBlowDC]

60? I'm truly impressed. All I seem to be pulling at the moment are mid-30's -40's flakes. I definitely need to work on my game. You all are right though, it is a numbers game. I have begun "mass-mailings" and have started to get more responses.

Is it me, or do the AA babies seem more aggressive and "available"? I am an equal opportunity monger and I love women of all color but these seems to be something I've run into as of late.

Vaguy68.

At least in my area the AA babies FAR outnumber the rest in the field.

[HollywoodGuy]

This is what I was talking about in my previous plea for those with game to expand on what they are doing. I'm doing OK getting them to a M&G, it's the next step that is problematic.

After coffee, drinks or dinner, we usually end up in my car (new, expensive, clean) to chat for a bit. There, I'm looking for signals that they are interested and are potential FC candidates. But in general, I get either cluelessness or worse, the cold shoulder. Mind you, I'm not aggressive by any standard. I'll turn my shoulders their way so we're not side by side like 2 idiots. They seldom do the same back. If they say something funny, I might graze an arm or leg while laughing. If they are manicured, I might compliment them while holding a hand. What do I usually get in return? They stare straight ahead, knees tight together, hands on knees or thighs, shoulders firmly planted in the seat, seatbelt sometimes strapped in. There's just no way to move from there to a convo about a next date, let alone the FC.

I have some theories. Obviously some are just not attracted, I get that. But my current batting average is worse than with the civvies, so something is not adding up. I might come across as lacking self-confidence by trying to be nice. I might come across as needy by not laying down what I expect. Maybe they need little hints like "How would you show your daddy if you liked the date? Or "What last impression do you want to make? Should I act like a peer, like a father, or like a boss?

SM.

Someone could write a book on this, and I am sure there are many. If you are ever ever ever in a car with a girl always go for the kiss asap. That should lead to some kind of makeout session. Assuming you get aroused, gently move her hand to your woodie. This is the highest form of praise. Because every girl wants to think she can get a guy hot in seconds (or minutes). If that works well, ask if she'd like to get a closer look. This is makeout 101. From this point it should just fall into place. And if it doesn't, just move on to the next one. But always take the lead. I always want to be accepted or rejected as fast as possible.

Most UTR's will move their hand there faster than you can move their hand there. LOL

[RubberyMan]

SlowMo,

It is hard to suggest what to do without seeing you in operation. Even if we were in your local, it is hard to have someone sit in on your interviews. .

So, here is something from way out in left field, but which I have plenty of experience with.

1). You need to like Asian spinners and spanners.

2). You need to have a couple of weeks spare.

If the above do not apply, ignore the rest of this.

Then head off to Angeles City or Subic Bay in the Philippines. As someone who has been there regularly since the seventies, I can tell you the following:

1). It is NOT "point and click" like the lurid tabloids or IJM would have you believe.

2). The girls can and will refuse you, and they do. Often.

3). They do need money, however.

4). There are lots of them, and sooner or later you WILL be lucky, no matter how bad your game.

5). It is a conservative Catholic country, so if you give them the fantasy you are wooing them, they will often give you the fantasy of being you're honeymoon bride. .

6). In Angeles and Subic, there are lots of bars close to each other with lots of women in each. That means you don't have to arrange the M&G.

7). There are so many guys within the bars and they often arrive in groups, so if you have a wingman observing your MO it will no be noticed.

8). There are several good specialist boards for the Philippines. Not sure if I am allowed to post links, so I won't. Not hard to find.

However, the material point from the above is that Angeles and Subic are really a sugar bowl on training wheels where the m&g is already available in the bars, and so all you have to do is work on your game. However, I say again, these places are NOT point and click, ignore any site that says they are.

=============================================

Gents,

If you guys want to discuss traveling to international destinations to get laid, why don't you visit my International Sex Guide forum at:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info

Thanks,

Jackson

[FredMoore]

Game is a combo of looks, personality, and confidence. IMHO the last is most important. These girls want to be told what to do and how to do it since they are already in the game. A few will chicken out but might reenter after a cooling off period. Just let them know that you intend to take them to bed and the only question is when and where.

A favorite trick of mine is massage. When we are talking I ask if they like massage, and of course they all do. I tell them I am really talented and will give them a professional one, which I know enough about to do very well. In the car or restaurant I will grab their hand and massage them in a non sexual way. That usually makes them curious enough to try me out. I tell them we can get a room, and if all they want is a massage we won't go further. They all go further. Massage is a great way to relax them, examine their body in detail, and move on to sensual moves easily and naturally. If they slam their legs together when you are working the Glut area as a prelude to massaging the vulva then you know you have some more work to do. Usually when I stroke their breast and nipple arrea I can see their breathing quicken and eyes flutter. When you stroke the butt and slip down to hit the labia they usually spread their legs a little to let you get in a little further, eventually to allow a finger to slide inside. Then game over. Your pants should be coming down with one hand at this time. There are some good Porn sites that demonstrate sensual massage techniques and how that can morph into fucking.

[HollywoodGuy]

You're either not building enough comfort with them during the date, or you've just had bad luck and picked girls that are really unsure and shy about the whole sugar thing. Try this. Next time you're in the car with the girl, just look at her and simply say "Would you like to kiss me?" It's straight forward enough to progress things without coming across creepy. If she says agrees, gently touch her cheek and proceed to kiss her. If she says no, or she isn't sure yet, just tell her that you understand and maybe she just needs more time to get comfortable with you. At that point, it's up to you whether or not you want to set up a second date or cut her loose.

If I'm in a car or anywhere private with a girl for more than 5 minutes and we aren't kissing or touching. It's game over. I've done it the other way and the amount of potential awkwardness you may have to get over, to just get back to where you were supposed to be in the beginning, is usually more than I am willing to deal with. This is a generalization. But I once read that a woman knows within a few minutes if she is willing to fuck you or not. But being willing and doing it are two different things. And that's where having game really begins.

I used to sales train quite a bit. I would sometimes train groups. I would tell them "Hey, I can give you everything I know and you could still fail. You know why? Because there is one thing I can never give you and thats a personality". (outright and nervous laughter from the crowd). "But you know what? You know who you are and you need to be that person and no one else (unless you're an actor). And you know why people like you, so when you find that person who does, spend all your time with them, and don't worry about the people that don't." You can fuck any girl for a price (because every girl has their price), but you cant make someone like you for a million dollars.

In my case my natural persona is to be a dominant daddy figure. So I only search out naughty little girls that need their daddy. But I try to pre-screen and pre-qualify them as much as is needed prior to meeting them. Many will just tell me upfront that we are not a match. Good thing I asked. And because of the sugar, some girls will lie and not be who I am looking for (but due to all the effort just to meet them, and being a horny fool I may fuck them once or a few times anyway).

If you are worried about your game just pursue someone you think is below your standard and work your way up. Or you could only date girls you are super attracted to physically. Let them know they are exactly what you are looking for in either case. That's probably the easiest way to get rolling. Many moons ago I was a membership salesman at Great Expectations. We used to tell clueless people that statistically they would have to go on about 20 dates to meet the right person. I believe that's true even if you aren't clueless. But that's not to say you couldn't fuck a few of them along the way till you strike real gold.

[DogSun]

This is what I was talking about in my previous plea for those with game to expand on what they are doing. I'm doing OK getting them to a M&G, it's the next step that is problematic.

After coffee, drinks or dinner, we usually end up in my car (new, expensive, clean) to chat for a bit. There, I'm looking for signals that they are interested and are potential FC candidates. But in general, I get either cluelessness or worse, the cold shoulder. Mind you, I'm not aggressive by any standard. I'll turn my shoulders their way so we're not side by side like 2 idiots. They seldom do the same back. If they say something funny, I might graze an arm or leg while laughing. If they are manicured, I might compliment them while holding a hand. What do I usually get in return? They stare straight ahead, knees tight together, hands on knees or thighs, shoulders firmly planted in the seat, seatbelt sometimes strapped in. There's just no way to move from there to a convo about a next date, let alone the FC.

You're either not building enough comfort with them during the date, or you've just had bad luck and picked girls that are really unsure and shy about the whole sugar thing. Try this. Next time you're in the car with the girl, just look at her and simply say "Would you like to kiss me?" It's straight forward enough to progress things without coming across creepy. If she says agrees, gently touch her cheek and proceed to kiss her. If she says no, or she isn't sure yet, just tell her that you understand and maybe she just needs more time to get comfortable with you. At that point, it's up to you whether or not you want to set up a second date or cut her loose.

[SlowMo]

When I see them making the exit sounds

This is what I was talking about in my previous plea for those with game to expand on what they are doing. I'm doing OK getting them to a M&G, it's the next step that is problematic.

After coffee, drinks or dinner, we usually end up in my car (new, expensive, clean) to chat for a bit. There, I'm looking for signals that they are interested and are potential FC candidates. But in general, I get either cluelessness or worse, the cold shoulder. Mind you, I'm not aggressive by any standard. I'll turn my shoulders their way so we're not side by side like 2 idiots. They seldom do the same back. If they say something funny, I might graze an arm or leg while laughing. If they are manicured, I might compliment them while holding a hand. What do I usually get in return? They stare straight ahead, knees tight together, hands on knees or thighs, shoulders firmly planted in the seat, seatbelt sometimes strapped in. There's just no way to move from there to a convo about a next date, let alone the FC.

I have some theories. Obviously some are just not attracted, I get that. But my current batting average is worse than with the civvies, so something is not adding up. I might come across as lacking self-confidence by trying to be nice. I might come across as needy by not laying down what I expect. Maybe they need little hints like "How would you show your daddy if you liked the date? Or "What last impression do you want to make? Should I act like a peer, like a father, or like a boss?

SM.

[HollywoodGuy]

So, invite them to the M&G on a definite "no money or sex" meeting where you will tell them all about something they seem to be curious about.

I just used your technique on an extremely reluctant girl this morning. She was all the more so over the fact that I told her I fuck a variety of girls. But thats the same thing she is curious about. The reason I tell these girls what I do is that it gets rid of the traditional BF seekers and attracts the curious. These girls have all had sex but not the kind of sex they fantasize about. And its the only hot button issue I really care about. But I used your "definitely no money or sex" phrase verbatim. She claims she hasn't had sex in a year.

20 AA slim and trim. Another 7/9 which seems to be my sweet spot.

[FotoGuy1970]

Is it me, or do the AA babies seem more aggressive and "available"? I am an equal opportunity monger and I love women of all color but these seems to be something I've run into as of late.

Vaguy68.

It's not you. This morning I was speaking to an AA girl. 15 minutes into our chat, she tells me that she's not really looking for a SD, what she really wants is a BF, and now that even we've only been texting for a couple hours and haven't met in person, she is now dead set that I am the perfect BF for her.

But yes, every AA girl I've ever spoken to or received intro letters from is definitely more aggressive about their pursuit of you than any other race of women.

[VaGuy68]

You can pull the 19-20 yo's. No doubt. I'm 60. Living proof. If it weren't for the members postings on this board I wouldn't have even tried but now I have a regular 20 yo co-ed (just turned 20 in Aug) and have enjoyed a 19 and several lower 20's. Have to work at it but it's there. I wish I were still mid 40's LOL.

60? I'm truly impressed. All I seem to be pulling at the moment are mid-30's -40's flakes. I definitely need to work on my game. You all are right though, it is a numbers game. I have begun "mass-mailings" and have started to get more responses.

Is it me, or do the AA babies seem more aggressive and "available"? I am an equal opportunity monger and I love women of all color but these seems to be something I've run into as of late.

Vaguy68.

[GetLost]

Ok, I actually had a whole day to myself and was determined to capitalize on it. There are 2 POTs that I have been talking to extensively for 2 months now. Do to distance, schedules arranging something with them has been difficult but now I had like an 8 hour window. Surely it would work out. Plus another POT that I had talked to awhile back started texting me. In addition, my POF profile had struck up with an UTR, and I had initiated chats with two other young SBs POTs. So here is the breakdown.

POT31-- Talked to her almost on daily basis for 2 months, 31, white, very cute, seems to be very sexually open. I think we get along great. But everytime I suggest an actual date, she gets strangely silent, doesn't even acknowledge the proposal. So I throw out Friday knowing in theory it's a good day for her to meet me. No response on it. She continues to chat with me, but just sort of acts like the idea was never floated. Not sure where this one is going to end up. In some ways, I think she sort of likes me as a person but can't figure out how that fits in with the SD / SB thing. If I was single and lived closer, I actually think she would just want to date me.

POT23- 23, mixed, grad student. Very cute with a tinge of sexy. Sort of funky personality which I like. She's different but not mental. We talk about 3 times a week. Like above, we seem to get along really well. I throw out Friday knowing she doesn't have class, really no response like above but at least she just stops chatting altogether. I don't really get it, but I think some girls just can't pull the trigger when it gets right down to it.

POT24 - Tall lean, AA girl, 24, just finished school, doing an internship. Very attractive, nice body, maybe a little too skinny if anything. But a solid 9 in my book. We chatted before, but schedules never meshed, now she is texting me again. But she has her internship on Friday, so can't meet up. But she does ask me for cash to pay for some licensing exams she has to take. It sounds like a legit request but I explain that I can't forward her money considering we haven't met and it's been impossible to arrange anything so far so why should I be confident that next week or the week after we are going to be able to do it? She has no transportation of own and apparently cannot borrow a friends or family members car. Haven't heard from her since.

POT18-Just starting chatting with her on like Wednesday. 18, white, a few extra pounds (I seem to be king of this type), cute face. Lives with BF, not sure how I feel about that. She lives about 50 minutes from me, no car We chat a little, and I went tosee her on Friday AM. She has an appt. We talk a little, play cards, then make out like a couple of teenagers. She says she is on her period, not sure if I believed it but didn't push further. We hung out for about hour and a half. I actually left without any contribution but we did talk about buying her some boots she liked when I came up next. I will see her again and start being generous.

UTR. Chatted with on POF, 20 AA, looks like a nice curvy but fit body. She was very upfront about what she wanted in exchange for companionship. Maybe more a pro but I couldn't find her on any pro sites so I dunno for sure. Since my 18 year old above did not drain me of my energy, I try to hook up with her. I suggested a time. She say how about 20 minutes from now. I say I can't, I am about 50 minutes from you. She says maybe she can wait. I try contacting once I am back in town, no answer. Later she said her phone died, we could reschedule. Not sure what to think but I will likely try again just to see what she is all about.

POT19 -- White, pretty, no body pic but I think she is probably average build. Text for a short while. Its very weird, we grew up in the same town and actually lived on the same street, albeit 3 decades apart. Chat seems to go well, a lot of kidding back and forth. I tell her it's getting late but would love to talk more. She seems very interested. But she has not responding to my texts since.

Meanwhile, my original SB emails me saying her friend who she had previously said would do a threesome with us was in dire straits and needed money. The email made it sound like her friend (who is very pretty) wanted in on some action. I say I am interested and to text me. Like an hour and a half later she finally texts me but it is abundantly clear that it would just be original SB and she wanted way to much. I ignored the texts and then email her the next day saying "What happened, never heard from you".

Anyway, at least it's never dull.

POT24 was testing you. Since you refused her request, she's ignoring you now. Get rid of that one. If I was asked that I would have told her to pay for her own damn books. Just saying. Especially since you didn't meet her.