"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[BeardedMan67]

I am in spinner paradise. She is the tallest girl I have ever been with by far. 5'11' and 118. Amazing skills. Date 5 and counting. A true NP princess. But like I told her. "I really dont care what your story is as long as you can make me believe it". My experience tells me she is totally for real. I am not in doubt about her low mileage or NP status. Total for the first 5 dates is $$$$ so far. It's creeping up but she's well worth it.

She is incredible looking, Hollywood Guy! I would love to live in a place like you do that has so much talent!!

[JZLizard]

So with all pretenses of non-pro out of the way, he got to her place, was buzzed in and found her waiting in lingerie in her apartment. He told me there were high heels, dresses, lingerie and stuff everywhere. As well as a bowl with condoms and a few bottles of lube by the bed along with plenty of wet naps and paper towels. Clearly a high volume provider. He then proceeded to tell me all the nasty stuff he did to her and her to him. All the stuff I'm thus far I'm shut out from in the bowl: deep throat fuck, rimming, FIV, anal, breath control, slapping, you name it.

If that's what you're after, there's no need to feel shut out. There are escorts, UTR girls, and SB wannabes that will do all of the above for a pre-agreed upon price. That's what your friend found that night. Just trolling CL or BP in any metro area of a reasonable size should turn up lots of this kind of thing. I just wish those types of girls wouldn't pollute the SD websites. I think they see it as "premium advertising", where they have less legal risk by camouflaging themselves by hiding behind the guise of an SB, preying on the gullibility of those unable to discern the difference between a selective SB and a high volume pro.

That's not to say that all of the above activities aren't available with real SBs, too, it's just that a real SB is going to take a lot more work to get everything you want than a wham-bam-thank-you-mam-pro. Perhaps the biggest difference is that with an SB, you'll be the one asking her to leave so you can get some sleep as opposed to her asking you to leave because she's got another customer to perform for.

One of the worst arguments I ever got into with an SB was when, after the third hour of fucking, I asked her if she would mind going on home and letting me sleep unbothered. I was drunk, dick-tired, and had a long drive the next day. My request did not sit well, because she had assumed we were now "an item" and she would be spending the entire night in my arms.

Hell hath no fury like a drunk college kid who just got sent home by a middle aged guy.

It's not a situation I want to repeat, particularly not the screaming (to the point I was worried about someone calling the cops), but at least after it was all said and done I knew she wasn't a pro that had another client appointment booked after her date with me.

[SlowMo]

With a slow office day, I met up with a buddy who's also a SD, but not a member of this site. We compared notes. He told me a story I thought was worthy of sharing.

He's been emailing this girl on SA for a bit and she was playing distant and such, replying in short tweets and not generally moving the conversation forward. Then one day she proposes that they meet. They agree on a time. And when he asks where she'd like to go for drinks, she proposes her place. She then quickly wanted to assess the level of sugar he was OK with by advancing $$$ as her service fee. Instead of negotiating, for fear of loosing the fish, he reflected to her that she was positioning the encounter as a premium, non-rushed, GFE / PSE experience. She agreed.

So with all pretenses of non-pro out of the way, he got to her place, was buzzed in and found her waiting in lingerie in her apartment. He told me there were high heels, dresses, lingerie and stuff everywhere. As well as a bowl with condoms and a few bottles of lube by the bed along with plenty of wet naps and paper towels. Clearly a high volume provider. He then proceeded to tell me all the nasty stuff he did to her and her to him. All the stuff I'm thus far I'm shut out from in the bowl: deep throat fuck, rimming, FIV, anal, breath control, slapping, you name it.

Where it gets interesting is what happens next: at allegedly the 90 min mark (dunno if I believe that), the lass informs him that she has someone else coming over in half an hour. She then asks if he'd be up for a threesome? My buddy's apparently not shy because he said "why not". She texted the other dude who obviously consented. Said dude showed up on time. I can only imagine how awkward that must have been. Anyway, still according to my bud, that led to more anal and some DP but no sword crossing. He says he finished part in her mouth, part on her tits following more throat fucking as her head was hanging off the bed. He says he left while the other two were still at it. She hadn't wiped anything off.

As, uh, interesting as that sounds, she's not my type, so I won't contact the free spirit. But I thought I'd share it with you fellas. Apparently anything can and does happen in the bowl.

SM.

[FredMoore]

JPs's comments are true, we each have our own techniques. And the technique might have to vary based on each Pot. Here's an example.

Pot #1 I am working, is a 22 yr old Hispanic hottie 8/7 who is having 2nd thoughts about the nature of our hobby. She desperately needs money and thought she could suck it up and "do it " with a stranger. She signed off saying she can't come see me, have sex, and get money. Well call it what it is, these babies are rationalizing what they are doing, which is getting paid to have sex with a stranger. They do it all the time with random hookups at college or where ever, but not so clinically for money. So we have to help them to the finish line. Here's how I am managing her. The jury is still out so I will let you know if it works. I wrote back saying that I will not remove my clothing, but would like to pleasure her in the privacy of the FC. If she wants me to I will be glad to complete the service but will guarantee that I will not attempt to fuck her without her asking first. This gives me the opportunity to inspect her thoroughly (remember the massage technique?) and see if she allows fingering and oral. My guess is if it gets this far she will go the whole way. In her mind she is not coming to get paid for sex. After all, we know these college girls don't consider oral as sex. Hopefully this strategy will work for this baby.

Pot #2 This girl looks like a buttoned up 20 something She is actually a classy looking UTR. 26 white 8/8 in a fresh scrubbed outdoorsy way. She came right back with an offer to meet for $ with a kicker added for a trip to mr stinky. So we know what she is, we just have to determine the price. There is no game required. It takes all kinds.

JPS -tell it like it is Brother. Your "friend" is not going to protect you from some LE sting. No Fed is looking to catch you telling your story. It is all fiction anyway, isn't it. " I was just bragging your honor, none of that really happened. I am a novelist entertaining my friends " . Use the 1st person, it is OK.

[VaGuy68]

POT 1 - drove the 45 miles through miserable traffic. Was a little late but emailed her prior. No show, no response. Wish I could have that 2 hrs back!

POT 2 - changed her profile and now only wants $ for pics!! WTF I can see pics for free on Redtube. Told her good luck with that and if she wants a more "personal" relationship then give me a shout.

POT 3 - can't get together until after Thanksgiving.

The search goes on.

[JeanSaulPartre]

My friend's approach is somewhat different from what has been described.

Just to clarify, I am not questioning what has been already suggested. It may work for some people, just not what he is doing. After all, some great players (I am not going to mention names, we all know who they are!) are just better at this game than the rest of us. Tiger Woods certainly knows how to play golf, but what works for him, may not work for everybody.

First of all, my friend never pushes for the FC. He goes on dates as one would IRL and acts as if he has infinite patience. So far no one asked him to get reimbursed for the dinner and drinks and so he always acts like this is what is expected one, two or even three dates, if necessary. So far, the longest he had to wait for FC was after Date #3.

He says doing this gets easier (mentally) once you already have a couple of relationships going. He tells me he had been on dates where he thought "maybe it is better if this does not work I cannot really afford to add one more to my rotation". However, so far he did not have to "dismiss" anyone he liked. He says thanks God for the "maintenance" week this way rotations get a bit easier to manage. He tells me the subject of sugar normally comes at the end of the first date. He normally does a "sign-up" bonus where the first date is compensated better then the rest.

I think this has already been said, but I will repeat. The fact that an SB is pretty content with seeing you the same way the pro would for a couple hours in the hotel (and maybe an occasional dinner) does not make her a pro. Many SBs (genuinely and sincerely) are not interested to make you their boyfriend. Many of them I'the say the best, honest and low-drama, have a deeply routed conflict about doing this and compartmentalize like crazy. The simplest way most of them approach it would be by completely shutting you out from the rest of their lives. You are just "that thing they do" once a week wild, forbidden and somewhat shameful thing.

As for one thinking that they "also enjoy sex". Well, not so fast. They know and would tell you that much they can go to a club, select the handsomest young dude and take him home. And they are not imagining that, they can (my friend would not date anyone who cannot, why bother? The reason they are with you is because of sugar. Do not get me wrong, they will not be with you if they did not find you attractive, did not like talking to you, resented sex with you or any such. It is just that they can fairly easily get the rest of it elsewhere. But not the sugar. Again, I am only talking about the cream of the crop, early twenties and gorgeous looking.

[JZLizard]

This is what I was talking about in my previous plea for those with game to expand on what they are doing. I'm doing OK getting them to a M&G, it's the next step that is problematic.

It's not easily described in my case. I would say that what I refer to as "my game" is probably about 90% psychology and just putting general experience with women into practice. I decided I didn't like women being in charge of me sometime around the 8th grade when I had an unruly GF who was a skilled manipulator. I think the hard knocks of that experience forced me to focus on what worked and what didn't. Then with every subsequent girl I just looked at it as a learning experience. I still do. The rules change over time so I'm still constantly figuring women out, but there are of course some fundamentals of how they think that remain pretty much constant.

That understanding of how they think, what makes them tick, etc. Is what determines everything that comes out of your mouth, all of your body language, etc. And ultimately, it determines whether you get laid or not -- that's true of the sugar world or any kind of dating.

Yes, looks matter, and they can give you an edge or put you at a disadvantage. But they mainly matter to attract them to the initial meeting. She already knows if she would fuck you or not by looking at your pic, and since she showed up for the M&G then it means it's possible. Possible and guaranteed are two different things of course. She can vote "yes" based on your pic, but decide to back out or pull a GPS attitude or whatever based on your behavior after you meet.

I can't really put together a rulebook for what I do, because it's different in every situation. Being able to adapt the conversation to an individual is just a social skill that takes practice. It may come easier for some than others, but you can't really develop it without practicing it. I had plenty of failures along the way, everyone does.

So, to be honest, there is no magic to getting them in the FC. Usually around the type dinner / drinks are over (or whatever we are doing, maybe at a club), I usually just ask point blank if they're coming back to my room with me. Sometimes I don't even have to ask, it's just a given that they will follow me back. But most of the psychological stuff I mentioned has already taken place by that time. I'm "operating" so to speak the whole time, from the initial e-mail where we're figuring everything out to the M&G where we are getting to know each other a little bit before we fuck.

So, for that reason I'm inclined to think that the fact you see the F&see as a next step in the sequence might be the problem. I see it more or less as the reward or payoff for a successful working of the game, it's not something that in itself needs effort exerted toward it. Maybe if you view the entire process of meeting (from initial text / mail to the M&G itself) as the real work to be done, the FC reward will come more naturally?

[DogSun]

The newest member on SA in my area is currently serving time in prison. But don't worry, she'll be out in 6 months. Apparently, her aunt is running the account for her. Based on her pics, I'm pretty sure she might try to shank me during our M&G.

[HollywoodGuy]

At least in my area the AA babies FAR outnumber the rest in the field.

In L. A. They are 10% of the population and 30% of the profiles.

[VaGuy68]

Ok I re-did my profile and casted a wider net. FISH ON!

POT 1 21 yo very cute and slim. Wants to meet for coffee tomorrow. It's about a 45 min ride. Lives in a redneck town and has a kid. Seems nonchalant. UTR maybe?

POT 2 - 22 yo heavier than I usually go for but I'm a sucker (pun intended) for big tits. She just can't understand why guys on SA are asking her to go to the FC right away! She's not a prostitute and it makes her feel uncomfortable. I told her to never mind those nasty guys and we can chat about it over a M&G.

POT 3 - 35 yo athletic and very attractive. Travels a lot and looking for something every once in awhile. Right up my alley. Working on a M&G.

Finally a little action.

[JoeBlowDC]

60? I'm truly impressed. All I seem to be pulling at the moment are mid-30's -40's flakes. I definitely need to work on my game. You all are right though, it is a numbers game. I have begun "mass-mailings" and have started to get more responses.

Is it me, or do the AA babies seem more aggressive and "available"? I am an equal opportunity monger and I love women of all color but these seems to be something I've run into as of late.

Vaguy68.

At least in my area the AA babies FAR outnumber the rest in the field.

[HollywoodGuy]

This is what I was talking about in my previous plea for those with game to expand on what they are doing. I'm doing OK getting them to a M&G, it's the next step that is problematic.

After coffee, drinks or dinner, we usually end up in my car (new, expensive, clean) to chat for a bit. There, I'm looking for signals that they are interested and are potential FC candidates. But in general, I get either cluelessness or worse, the cold shoulder. Mind you, I'm not aggressive by any standard. I'll turn my shoulders their way so we're not side by side like 2 idiots. They seldom do the same back. If they say something funny, I might graze an arm or leg while laughing. If they are manicured, I might compliment them while holding a hand. What do I usually get in return? They stare straight ahead, knees tight together, hands on knees or thighs, shoulders firmly planted in the seat, seatbelt sometimes strapped in. There's just no way to move from there to a convo about a next date, let alone the FC.

I have some theories. Obviously some are just not attracted, I get that. But my current batting average is worse than with the civvies, so something is not adding up. I might come across as lacking self-confidence by trying to be nice. I might come across as needy by not laying down what I expect. Maybe they need little hints like "How would you show your daddy if you liked the date? Or "What last impression do you want to make? Should I act like a peer, like a father, or like a boss?

SM.

Someone could write a book on this, and I am sure there are many. If you are ever ever ever in a car with a girl always go for the kiss asap. That should lead to some kind of makeout session. Assuming you get aroused, gently move her hand to your woodie. This is the highest form of praise. Because every girl wants to think she can get a guy hot in seconds (or minutes). If that works well, ask if she'd like to get a closer look. This is makeout 101. From this point it should just fall into place. And if it doesn't, just move on to the next one. But always take the lead. I always want to be accepted or rejected as fast as possible.

Most UTR's will move their hand there faster than you can move their hand there. LOL

[RubberyMan]

SlowMo,

It is hard to suggest what to do without seeing you in operation. Even if we were in your local, it is hard to have someone sit in on your interviews. .

So, here is something from way out in left field, but which I have plenty of experience with.

1). You need to like Asian spinners and spanners.

2). You need to have a couple of weeks spare.

If the above do not apply, ignore the rest of this.

Then head off to Angeles City or Subic Bay in the Philippines. As someone who has been there regularly since the seventies, I can tell you the following:

1). It is NOT "point and click" like the lurid tabloids or IJM would have you believe.

2). The girls can and will refuse you, and they do. Often.

3). They do need money, however.

4). There are lots of them, and sooner or later you WILL be lucky, no matter how bad your game.

5). It is a conservative Catholic country, so if you give them the fantasy you are wooing them, they will often give you the fantasy of being you're honeymoon bride. .

6). In Angeles and Subic, there are lots of bars close to each other with lots of women in each. That means you don't have to arrange the M&G.

7). There are so many guys within the bars and they often arrive in groups, so if you have a wingman observing your MO it will no be noticed.

8). There are several good specialist boards for the Philippines. Not sure if I am allowed to post links, so I won't. Not hard to find.

However, the material point from the above is that Angeles and Subic are really a sugar bowl on training wheels where the m&g is already available in the bars, and so all you have to do is work on your game. However, I say again, these places are NOT point and click, ignore any site that says they are.

=============================================

Gents,

If you guys want to discuss traveling to international destinations to get laid, why don't you visit my International Sex Guide forum at:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info

Thanks,

Jackson

[FredMoore]

Game is a combo of looks, personality, and confidence. IMHO the last is most important. These girls want to be told what to do and how to do it since they are already in the game. A few will chicken out but might reenter after a cooling off period. Just let them know that you intend to take them to bed and the only question is when and where.

A favorite trick of mine is massage. When we are talking I ask if they like massage, and of course they all do. I tell them I am really talented and will give them a professional one, which I know enough about to do very well. In the car or restaurant I will grab their hand and massage them in a non sexual way. That usually makes them curious enough to try me out. I tell them we can get a room, and if all they want is a massage we won't go further. They all go further. Massage is a great way to relax them, examine their body in detail, and move on to sensual moves easily and naturally. If they slam their legs together when you are working the Glut area as a prelude to massaging the vulva then you know you have some more work to do. Usually when I stroke their breast and nipple arrea I can see their breathing quicken and eyes flutter. When you stroke the butt and slip down to hit the labia they usually spread their legs a little to let you get in a little further, eventually to allow a finger to slide inside. Then game over. Your pants should be coming down with one hand at this time. There are some good Porn sites that demonstrate sensual massage techniques and how that can morph into fucking.

[HollywoodGuy]

You're either not building enough comfort with them during the date, or you've just had bad luck and picked girls that are really unsure and shy about the whole sugar thing. Try this. Next time you're in the car with the girl, just look at her and simply say "Would you like to kiss me?" It's straight forward enough to progress things without coming across creepy. If she says agrees, gently touch her cheek and proceed to kiss her. If she says no, or she isn't sure yet, just tell her that you understand and maybe she just needs more time to get comfortable with you. At that point, it's up to you whether or not you want to set up a second date or cut her loose.

If I'm in a car or anywhere private with a girl for more than 5 minutes and we aren't kissing or touching. It's game over. I've done it the other way and the amount of potential awkwardness you may have to get over, to just get back to where you were supposed to be in the beginning, is usually more than I am willing to deal with. This is a generalization. But I once read that a woman knows within a few minutes if she is willing to fuck you or not. But being willing and doing it are two different things. And that's where having game really begins.

I used to sales train quite a bit. I would sometimes train groups. I would tell them "Hey, I can give you everything I know and you could still fail. You know why? Because there is one thing I can never give you and thats a personality". (outright and nervous laughter from the crowd). "But you know what? You know who you are and you need to be that person and no one else (unless you're an actor). And you know why people like you, so when you find that person who does, spend all your time with them, and don't worry about the people that don't." You can fuck any girl for a price (because every girl has their price), but you cant make someone like you for a million dollars.

In my case my natural persona is to be a dominant daddy figure. So I only search out naughty little girls that need their daddy. But I try to pre-screen and pre-qualify them as much as is needed prior to meeting them. Many will just tell me upfront that we are not a match. Good thing I asked. And because of the sugar, some girls will lie and not be who I am looking for (but due to all the effort just to meet them, and being a horny fool I may fuck them once or a few times anyway).

If you are worried about your game just pursue someone you think is below your standard and work your way up. Or you could only date girls you are super attracted to physically. Let them know they are exactly what you are looking for in either case. That's probably the easiest way to get rolling. Many moons ago I was a membership salesman at Great Expectations. We used to tell clueless people that statistically they would have to go on about 20 dates to meet the right person. I believe that's true even if you aren't clueless. But that's not to say you couldn't fuck a few of them along the way till you strike real gold.