"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[FredMoore]

I have ran upon a 28 year old single mom in Roanoke Va and need some advice. She is staying in a motel with her 2 children and needs financial help. She's telling me she has no money and has to check out today. But then comes back and states she needs $300 by Wednesday. I was going to meet her yesterday for lunch but I was sick and could not make it. She wanted a $100 bucks just to meet and I got her down to $75. Does this sound like a scam? Any advice is much appreciated.

This ploy is called the "panic" and is a classic Nando 1 move. Unfortunately these girls are desperate and the facts are that dshe probably has all kinds of debt and is getting evicted, etc. Remember do not fall for this sob story, it is not your responsibility to bail her out of her problems.

What you do is the following: 1) offer her $ ,whatever your number is for a FC visit. 2) tell her when you are available and where ,3) stick to your guns. Do not let her appeal to your sensitivity about her plight. 4) do not pay her to meet. Tell her that you will apply that money to her allowance only after she produces on her end. 5) Run and do not play with Nando 1 s.

[BigDawg14]

I have ran upon a 28 year old single mom in Roanoke Va and need some advice. She is staying in a motel with her 2 children and needs financial help. She's telling me she has no money and has to check out today. But then comes back and states she needs $300 by Wednesday. I was going to meet her yesterday for lunch but I was sick and could not make it. She wanted a $100 bucks just to meet and I got her down to $75. Does this sound like a scam? Any advice is much appreciated.

[JZLizard]

Bottom line, she is not relationship material, mostly due to her age. So I'm dumping her ass and going back to regular Sugar bowl experiences. Life is short, I want more experiences before the ole general will no longer rise to the occasion. Funny thing is, once you've been with a 21 year old girl for a while in the real relationship type scenario, the novelty wears off and her being so young and pretty fades.

You met a true SB, and yes they can be a pain in the ass, because they are often motivated by more than money. I think a lot of folks would be surprised how many 20-somethings are genuinely attracted to older guys and want something beyond (but of course preferably in addition to) money, if they can get it.

When I was civy dating, I sometimes encountered girls that were SBs but not officially in the way we think of with so many of these UTR girls on the SD sites. One that comes to mind was a girl I met on a civy dating site that was fresh out of college. Yes she wanted support in the sense she was still figuring out how to support herself, but aside from letting me buy her dinner there was never an expectation for money. What she REALLY wanted was for me to teach her how to get involved in the industry I am in -- maybe not just get her a job but to teach her the ropes. So in a way she was fucking me for career advice and mentoring, and an occasional trip to a restaurant or nightclub. I lived alone at the time so bringing her to my house to spend the night was a no-cost situation. Similar to what you've described, she wasn't even close to real relationship material to me. Just being around her for any length of time without some alcohol in my system was hard to tolerate, mostly just because of the huge difference in life experience and maturity. The fucking was good though, while it lasted.

For relationship material, during my civy dating I sort of decided that 30 is a good target for minimum age for a partner. Luckily I'm a fan of the exotic brunette (Asian / Latina) and a lot of that demographic still look like 20 year olds when they are thirtyish. I met only a few who were late 20's and still mature enough for a relationship. I even prefer that they've been married before (hopefully no kids) because then they aren't in a rush or having delusions about what married life is like.

So, maybe in some ways a true SB is one of those "be careful what you wish for" things. UTR girls are less hassle, and generally get out of your hair and move on when the party is over.

[DirtyDeeds38]

Did you follow his previous reports on this particular girl? I'm pretty sure he said he already tested her by removing money from the equation a while back.

The SB in question, without doubt has / had true feelings. Problem is her age being so young, she still has not maneuvered through cycles of what it takes to make a man feel secure with her. She likes to party, go out with friends, flirt and all that comes with being a typical 21 yo girl. However, she also wants true love, stability and all that comes with that. I know her feelings are genuine, but so is her age and what she is not ready to overcome. I met her entire family for Pete's sake. Even her dad who is not the nicest of characters. Somehow they all approved of me. She is from a small town in rural Western Virginia and has not seen much outside her small town. Judging her at a raw level, she is sweet natured, loving, and naive. She claims to have had 9 sexual partners her entire life. Six boyfriends and three SD's date type things including me. So yeah, she slept with two other men for $. So having been around this hobby and other related hobbies for a bit, once a girl gets a taste for quick easy money like that, it's all but impossible for her to shake it, until she is put through the ringer of reality and usually used up by then.

Bottom line, she is not relationship material, mostly due to her age. So I'm dumping her ass and going back to regular Sugar bowl experiences. Life is short, I want more experiences before the ole general will no longer rise to the occasion. Funny thing is, once you've been with a 21 year old girl for a while in the real relationship type scenario, the novelty wears off and her being so young and pretty fades. She just becomes another woman to you. Sometimes I am mesmerized by her face and youthful beauty. She is a pretty girl, but her lying, immature ways, are not something I even remotely care to deal with in my mid-40's.

So back in the bowl I go. Hopefully the fallout with her with no go nuclear. .

[JZLizard]

You're fooling yourself. All she cares about is the $$. Whats that saying about massage parlor girls? "Man who looks for love in a massage parlor gets neither a good massage nor a happy ending". The same thing applies to any girl where the immediate, direct transaction is based on the exchange of money. These girls are here to be used for sex. Nothing more. Nothing less. View it as something different at your peril.

Did you follow his previous reports on this particular girl? I'm pretty sure he said he already tested her by removing money from the equation a while back.

[Capricaone]

As I reported here before the original SB who developed deep feelings and love for me, met her entire family and vowed never to let me go; well, she has to go. No reason and no fault of her own, I just can't do it. The age difference is too vast and the $ I'm spending is probably triple just seeing regular SB's. I can't help but feel like fucking shit, as I've tried different ways over the past few days to let her go and she cries, pleads and begs. I fall for her crying little ways every fucking time and then we rebuild. I have feelings for her as well, but fucking hell, I can't jump in with both feet. I just can't do it. So tomorrow, I'm just going to tell her and let her go. I expect a bad fallout, as family and such are not well onboard with this relationship.

After this, I will NEVER allow my sself to get feelings in the Sugar bowl again. NEVER! Too much pain and anguish. Will report back on the nuclear fallout. Driving to Virginia to tell her in person tomorrow night.

Dirty.

You're fooling yourself. All she cares about is the $$. Whats that saying about massage parlor girls? "Man who looks for love in a massage parlor gets neither a good massage nor a happy ending". The same thing applies to any girl where the immediate, direct transaction is based on the exchange of money. These girls are here to be used for sex. Nothing more. Nothing less. View it as something different at your peril.

[Dsprdo]

I have tried both SA and SD4 M; with much more success on SA, but I've put more into it. The recurring billing IS a pain. CL is nothing but spammers. The couple of real girls I have met there were nothing to write home about, with the exception of one hit 18 yo who told me she wanted to be a porn star and is well on her way to full pro status. My #1 SB is 500 a month, with twice a week agreed to, but we're not really hitting that. She probably is averaging about $ per visit. I am picking up a new girl that I met last week in a few hours for an overnight, with $ agreed to, once or twice a week. I have a date on Monday with another new girl that I had dinner with the other night, she has agreed to $$ per week for two visits. She is a true first timer, single mom, two jobs, and a cut above the rest on looks and brains. I really hope she pans out, but I'm not 100% sure she won't get cold feet at the last minute. The most I've paid was $. 5 per visit. I have probably missed out on some of the hotter local college girls because of that, but frequency is important, too.

[FotoGuy1970]

Took me a bit but I found it. The brother in question was Hernando. His post that classified some of the POTs that one may meet in the bowl (including the now legendary classification "Nando1") can be found at post #779.

http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/sh...-Not&p=1330891

[HollywoodGuy]

As I reported here before the original SB who developed deep feelings and love for me, met her entire family and vowed never to let me go; well, she has to go. No reason and no fault of her own, I just can't do it. The age difference is too vast and the $ I'm spending is probably triple just seeing regular SB's. I can't help but feel like fucking shit, as I've tried different ways over the past few days to let her go and she cries, pleads and begs. I fall for her crying little ways every fucking time and then we rebuild. I have feelings for her as well, but fucking hell, I can't jump in with both feet. I just can't do it. So tomorrow, I'm just going to tell her and let her go. I expect a bad fallout, as family and such are not well onboard with this relationship.

After this, I will NEVER allow my sself to get feelings in the Sugar bowl again. NEVER! Too much pain and anguish. Will report back on the nuclear fallout. Driving to Virginia to tell her in person tomorrow night.

Dirty.

Triple?. No wonder she's crying. Tell her its a $ a date and let her break up with you. I promise you'll feel better no matter what happens. Just txt her and see what she says.

[DirtyDeeds38]

As I reported here before the original SB who developed deep feelings and love for me, met her entire family and vowed never to let me go; well, she has to go. No reason and no fault of her own, I just can't do it. The age difference is too vast and the $ I'm spending is probably triple just seeing regular SB's. I can't help but feel like fucking shit, as I've tried different ways over the past few days to let her go and she cries, pleads and begs. I fall for her crying little ways every fucking time and then we rebuild. I have feelings for her as well, but fucking hell, I can't jump in with both feet. I just can't do it. So tomorrow, I'm just going to tell her and let her go. I expect a bad fallout, as family and such are not well onboard with this relationship.

After this, I will NEVER allow my sself to get feelings in the Sugar bowl again. NEVER! Too much pain and anguish. Will report back on the nuclear fallout. Driving to Virginia to tell her in person tomorrow night.

Dirty.

[HollywoodGuy]

1. SA and ads on CL have given me the best results, SD4 M has been a waste of my time and recurring billing is all but impossible to put a stop to. Some brothers report mixed results with other sites, so I suggest you try some of the other ones and see how they work for your location.

2. I always pay per meeting, I have never used a monthly allowance.

3. On SA, I have a public pic that gives a bit of an idea of what I look like while still obscuring my identity. I have a few private pics that show what I look like, but I only show those to POTs that show an interest in me.

4. The POTs I've spoken to have always wanted more than $ per visit, so I can't speak for the guys who are able to get POTs for only $.

5. On SA, 99.9% of the time I use a copied and pasted message that I try to add a bit of personalization based on a POTs profile. Hard to tell what the response rate is, maybe 50/50.

6. Nando is / was a contributor to this thread who once posted a breakdown of the types and personalities of some of the POTs one may encounter while searching for a SB (my apologies, but I don't recall his full user name). The POT who has no job, not going to school, seems to have no end of drama and "emergencies" which require immediate need for cash he classified as a Nando1 . And so Nando1 became the term for any POT who may be a good temporary / short-term SB but in the long run will probably prove to be more trouble than she's worth.

I swear by SD4 M, but it is a minefield of pros, utr's, gps, not so good looking girls, and on and on. Lots of nando 1 types, but if you date 18 to 22 there are going to be more of those anyway. Unless a girl is in some type of adult entertainment (and even if she is), a $ a date is ok money. I said ok, not great or awesome. There has to be more than the $ to keep these girls coming back for more. Like a shoulder to cry on, killer sex, good advice, but something more.

[DirtyDeeds38]

Some things I stumbled upon that improved my situation within the sugar bowl. A website air bnb the newest trend in house, condo and luxury apartment rentals, most often even by the day will allow you to rent a condo, penthouse, or home you can pull off as your own if you're slick. I used it a few times with my SB's and it was awesome. Rented a luxury condo, fully furnished, etc in the heart of Philly for $100 a night. My SB was impressed and truly thought it was my place. Haha.

Another is to create a solid alibi for those who have an SO. When I had my 4 year affair, I went on all kinds of trips with old long lost "friends. " a cabin camping trip, sea fishing, helped an ole bro move a yacht, etc. Etc. I had a few people that SO could call and verify and they played the role. I then went away with my mistress and drew little to no suspicion. The alibi would fill in blanks about long lost days of the past, growing up together, tell my SO about his SO, kids etc. We could use a little networking on here like that it seems. .

[FotoGuy1970]

Fellow SDs,

A couple of questions that I am pondering:

1. Which site has yielded you the best results SA or SD4 M? Any differences in the types of SBs you are finding on the different sites?

2. What is your frequency of assistance? Per meeting or monthly?

3. I am hesitant to post a picture, if you have posted a pic do you have better results?

4. A number of SDs are communicating that their assistance is only $ per meeting, I really don't get it as any girl can get a bar or food service job in the big city and clear $$ per night via legit work.

5. Do you use a template in initial email contact? What is your response rate?

6. Searching through the site I really can't find a FAQ with all the abbreviations defined: I am wondering what NANDO means.

Thanks,

1. SA and ads on CL have given me the best results, SD4 M has been a waste of my time and recurring billing is all but impossible to put a stop to. Some brothers report mixed results with other sites, so I suggest you try some of the other ones and see how they work for your location.

2. I always pay per meeting, I have never used a monthly allowance.

3. On SA, I have a public pic that gives a bit of an idea of what I look like while still obscuring my identity. I have a few private pics that show what I look like, but I only show those to POTs that show an interest in me.

4. The POTs I've spoken to have always wanted more than $ per visit, so I can't speak for the guys who are able to get POTs for only $.

5. On SA, 99.9% of the time I use a copied and pasted message that I try to add a bit of personalization based on a POTs profile. Hard to tell what the response rate is, maybe 50/50.

6. Nando is / was a contributor to this thread who once posted a breakdown of the types and personalities of some of the POTs one may encounter while searching for a SB (my apologies, but I don't recall his full user name). The POT who has no job, not going to school, seems to have no end of drama and "emergencies" which require immediate need for cash he classified as a Nando1 . And so Nando1 became the term for any POT who may be a good temporary / short-term SB but in the long run will probably prove to be more trouble than she's worth.

[Walruscl]

4. A number of SDs are communicating that their assistance is only $ per meeting, I really don't get it as any girl can get a bar or food service job in the big city and clear $$ per night via legit work.

As at least one other person has pointed out, clearing $$ per night for service jobs is pretty much the exception, not the rule. Keeping in mind the limitations of anecdotal evidence, my SB basically clears about a little over half a $ per day. That's after a couple of years in one of the more labor-friendly food chains. As low-paying as it is, she considers herself lucky to have the job, as most of the alternatives in the service / unskilled labor market pay less.

This isn't a big city area, but it's only about 90 minutes to the nearest one, and the cost of living here isn't outrageous but nor is it cheap. She's going to school, with zero assistance from her parents, and there's no way she could pull that off on just her regular job.

We started out at $$/ visit, but have since moved on to a less rigid arrangement. Earning about 3 x of a day at her regular job in exchange for 4-6 hours of naked fun is a good deal. Even if she weren't smitten with me and having the best sex of her life, those financials are quite compelling.

[JZLizard]

Never forget Gents, THE GIRLS ARE HERE FOR MONEY. They aren't looking for the love of their life. Sure, they hope to have a good time, cool experiences, maybe even sex with an experienced guy, but the bottom line is some level of support.

The thing is though all women are looking for some level of support. So, if that's our criteria for a pro, there is no such thing as an SB or an escort at all. From a logical standpoint that would mean all women are the same and they are all pros. It's like saying just because all men want sex, and because all men provide some sort of support (even if it is providing a home for their wife), then we are all just johns paying hookers.

I'm never one to try to change another man's opinion, but in a public forum I do think it's very important to separate opinion from facts. There's nothing I could say about the categorization of SBs versus UTRs versus escorts that I could proclaim is factual, it's just my opinion. But the important thing is that we never narrow our thinking to the point that we start believing that definitions are created only from our own experiences. Just because we have not experienced, something doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that someone else hasn't experienced it.

I personally have experienced SBs who would not take my money. I have met those who are in search of love (even though that's not what I'm looking for). If all we have is a hammer, the whole world starts looking like a nail. If there is one thing I could say that goes beyond opinion and enters the realm of fact, it is that if we approach girls online with offers for money, we are only going to be able to attract UTRs and pros. There's nothing wrong with doing that, but it's important to dodge delusions that what we see in our own personal approach is all that exists.

I personally don't want to see the entire SB scene turned into a pure UTR scene just because that's what some people are doing. Granted, there is a LOT of UTR experiences to be had there, and there can be a fine line between a true SB and a UTR. But losing sight of the difference or denying it exists isn't good for any of us in the bowl.