"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[FotoGuy1970]

I've been talking with a POT off and on for almost a year. We first communicated through SA, then she's responded to CL ads I've posted at various times. Each time we've talked, something has come up that has made me decline moving forward with a M&G. But she contacted me again about a week ago and we once again started discussing a M&G. Since I was forced to dismiss my free spirit SB (or more like she dismissed herself), I was open to meeting the off and on POT as soon as possible, which turned out to be last night. She seemed totally on board with everything and she always had been very enthusiastic about doing this with me. Based on her attitude, plus the fact that this was last minute plans, plus it was getting somewhat late and I was sort of tired, I decided to skip a true M&G and just go straight to the FC. I've never skipped M&G and just gone to FC, and I need to not neglect that rule in the future so that things like what happened next can be avoided.

I picked her up and we made small talk along the way. She reaffirmed that she was down for physical stuff. I checked us in, we went to the room, sat on the bed. Made small talk while we had the TV on for background distraction. She sat as far away from me on the bed as possible. Did nothing to further conversation or attempt to make any more than basic chit-chat. Body language conveyed that she was very uncomfortable and awkward. Even when I attempted some small caresses with her, I got no response. She was not at all receptive to being touched, even lightly. Everything about her told me that she did not want to be there. When I asked if she was okay, she expressed that she was tired and if it was okay if she could just go to sleep. We slept next to each other, but there was no cuddling at all. I woke up before her and when she woke up, she still seemed so uncomfortable. She went and took a shower and while she was doing that, I made the decision to cut our date early (we were supposed to spent a full day together) and just take her home. We were clearly not working out. As it turns out, when she came out of the shower, she said she wasn't feeling good, could I take her home? On the way back to her place, we talked about how awkward things had been. We both agreed it was nice to meet each other finally. But for whatever reason, she was totally uncomfortable with it all and she never elaborated on why. She didn't ask for any money and I didn't offer. All it cost me was the room (a cheaper hotel chain, but the room was actually pretty decent for the price) and some gas money to drive 30 minutes there and back. I would be very, very surprised if I ever hear from her again.

In the meantime, I'm speaking with my SDT SB about seeing each other again while I continue to try and find a regular SB. I've reached out to a few POTs on SA that I had either met or spoken with previously, just to test the waters there. A couple of them have responded favorably about picking things up again where we left off, including one that I had met back in April that I had liked very much, but she didn't respond to my follow-up texts.

[JZLizard]

Who has to change the sheets?

Yeah, when you put it that way maybe not such a good idea.

[JZLizard]

WTF? Women, even young they are confusing. The sure bet, turned into nothing and the one I thought I could never tap, is now a sure deal. LOL.

The one thing I've learned so far is to handle every SB under the assumption she is fundamentally broken as a person. Of course, they aren't all really that volatile, but so many of them are that it's just safer to assume they are and handle with care (or avoid handling altogether where appropriate).

I think you did the right thing by walking away from the loose wheel, I would have done same and probably taken drinks with me. I think it's better to see them in person before talking money (but then again I never talk money anyway I just gift them after the fact).

[DirtyDeeds38]

So the girl who texted me to come on over the other night when I was out with "good girl" with no FC visit, invited me over this morning. We texted and she was open for sex. I asked her if she would like me to bring some drinks. She texts me back what type of drinks she likes, but technically never said, yea or nay to drinking. So I took that she had texted me what she liked, as a token to bring some drinks. So I stop and buy a few rounds. Go to her house way out in the middle of fucking nowhere. She opens the door in a bathrobe and shakes my hand. She is a bit heavier then she lead me to believe, but still doable as we agreed to $200 for three hours of afternoon playtime.

So I walk in and set the drinks on her coffee table, and just like your ex wife of twenty years, complete with hands on the hips and that "tone" us old formerly married mongers know all too well, she says, "what the hell is that, you do realize it's 2 pm in the afternoon, a bit early for drinking don't you think? I'm not some drunk you know" I left the drinks on her coffee table, smiled at her, said "have a nice day" and walked right the fuck out.

Get home and the "good girl" I saw the evening before texts me and said she wants to go out again, she liked me and would be ok with going to the FC after another date.

WTF? Women, even young they are confusing. The sure bet, turned into nothing and the one I thought I could never tap, is now a sure deal. LOL.

[Dolato]

Your post gave me a great idea. SugarDaddy timeshare rentals, complete with online FC booking / scheduling. Where do I sign up?

Who has to change the sheets?

[JZLizard]

Kinda slow lately. The best I could come up with this week was a smoking hot 18 year old that offered a HJ but no sex for $. I might see her Tuesday just to get my hands on her amazing body. Sometime (but rarely) you can convert a HJ or BJ only date to something more down the road. She only lives 3 minutes from me so that's helpful. Also going to look at a tiny but perfect single to use as an FC that's only 10 minutes from me. I miss out on too many opportunities due to not wanting to take a strange girl to my place. And I like a lot of nando 1 girls. Just to hookup. So I am checking into it. 7 to 8 hundred a month. I may try it for a year. My home is kind of homey plus I have a kid. Sometimes a place like this can amp up the sexiness of the date, as obviously there is only one reason to be there.

Your post gave me a great idea. SugarDaddy timeshare rentals, complete with online FC booking / scheduling. Where do I sign up?

[DirtyDeeds38]

Kinda slow lately. The best I could come up with this week was a smoking hot 18 year old that offered a HJ but no sex for $. I might see her Tuesday just to get my hands on her amazing body. Sometime (but rarely) you can convert a HJ or BJ only date to something more down the road. She only lives 3 minutes from me so that's helpful. Also going to look at a tiny but perfect single to use as an FC that's only 10 minutes from me. I miss out on too many opportunities due to not wanting to take a strange girl to my place. And I like a lot of nando 1 girls. Just to hookup. So I am checking into it. 7 to 8 hundred a month. I may try it for a year. My home is kind of homey plus I have a kid. Sometimes a place like this can amp up the sexiness of the date, as obviously there is only one reason to be there.

Also got an offer for FS from a white 24 year old utr I did like 3 years ago. But she is not really my type. A little tall and heavier than I like.

I'm setting up the same, but with my RV. And it's not a "camper" it's late model luxury cruiser with two slides all the amenities of a penthouse on wheels. Going to sign on to a resort style RV park and bring my dates there. This will cut down on the expensive hotels and hopefully they are willing to dine and drink with me there. Of the few girls I've had in, they LOVED it! I even met one in a Walmart parking lot once and banged her there, with all the shoppers walking by. Curtains closed, slides out, generator and AC running. She got a huge thrill out of having sex with shoppers literally feet away who were clueless. LOL.

I have a few questions about abbreviations and yes, I read the forum and abbreviation chart and these are not on there. UTR, BC and nando 1 definitions?

[HollywoodGuy]

Kinda slow lately. The best I could come up with this week was a smoking hot 18 year old that offered a HJ but no sex for $. I might see her Tuesday just to get my hands on her amazing body. Sometime (but rarely) you can convert a HJ or BJ only date to something more down the road. She only lives 3 minutes from me so that's helpful. Also going to look at a tiny but perfect single to use as an FC that's only 10 minutes from me. I miss out on too many opportunities due to not wanting to take a strange girl to my place. And I like a lot of nando 1 girls. Just to hookup. So I am checking into it. 7 to 8 hundred a month. I may try it for a year. My home is kind of homey plus I have a kid. Sometimes a place like this can amp up the sexiness of the date, as obviously there is only one reason to be there.

Also got an offer for FS from a white 24 year old utr I did like 3 years ago. But she is not really my type. A little tall and heavier than I like.

[DirtyDeeds38]

For those with an SO, the risk is much higher and the amount of volume and time you can engage in is very limited. So I thought I would start a possible discussion for ideas of ways to elude the ever so clutching SO, AKA wife, etc so we can engage in your favorite and much needed past time. SB-ing.

The way I see there are three levels of escape to allow hobby participation.

The first is a quick visit, usually with an easy excuse being suffice, allowing you to escape the clutches for a few hours. During this time, you might be running a few errands, or sneaking out, etc.

The second would be for an overnight, with or without cell phone contact and expected contact from the SO. If she checks in and expects a response, you are given leeway for time to respond back. Preferably 2-4 hours later, without setting off suspicions. Ideas for this?

The third level and probably most preferred, would be 1-3 nights away, with no expectation of contact from the SO. Meaning you get away for more then a day, without any suspicions from the SO when you don't check in, text back or answer the damn phone for more then an entire 24 hour period. I find this damn near impossible, but if other members might have some creative ideas, perhaps it is achievable. I mean even if you suddenly became an astronaut and were on a mission to Mars, she is likely still going to expect contact.

Now when I was married, I engage in all three, but not without huge fallout and serious fighting and explaining AFTER the fact. Trust me brothers, this method does not work. You need a convincing plan going in.

So lets share some ideas that you may have used in the past?

[JZLizard]

Anyone here ever sent the wrong girl the wrong text? Ugh. I did that a few days ago and got little missy all pissed off now. LOL. Funny she is probably doing the same thing, but we are the only ones who are the bad guys, right? I texted an established sugar girl about how great it was to meet her and about the night, obviously she figured out I was out with someone else.

I did this once. Luckily the text sent to the wrong one was such that it was something fairly innocent that could be played off (not a deal breaker). Then I thought to myself, is it really a problem if I lose one SB over the ordeal? Not really. It mattered only because I had such a short time frame to play in, so the real loss would have been the time I had left to fill her shoes if she went dark. Otherwise I was thinking if she did get pissed, there's always one more right behind her. It's one of the things I prefer about the bowl to civy dating. In civy dating you've usually got a real problem when that happens.

[DirtyDeeds38]

So to speak, but I was fairly certain I would tonight. Met a college girl, aged 25,5'2" little spinner I mentioned the other night. Girl had a solid head on her shoulders, very intelligent and well spoken. I did not think there would be any trips to the FC before the date and was not surprised when it did not happen. Not even an opening to bring it up. All small and business talk type stuff. I could tell she was unsure about what she was doing. She did agree to go out again, but I'm not sure how much "courting" I'm willing to do batting 1000% with my last seven straight dates. Don't these girls realize what this game is about?

I had emailed a different girl earlier and when I was out with good girl, I got a text with her telling me I could come over to her place. So I picked the wrong girl for tonight, that's for sure!

Anyone here ever sent the wrong girl the wrong text? Ugh. I did that a few days ago and got little missy all pissed off now. LOL. Funny she is probably doing the same thing, but we are the only ones who are the bad guys, right? I texted an established sugar girl about how great it was to meet her and about the night, obviously she figured out I was out with someone else.

[JZLizard]

Anyone else get a kick out of Alan Kalter's hot little gum-smacking deer-in-headlights blonde sugar baby that he refers to as his "daughter"? Hehe. She was on again tonight. I think that's only the second time they've used her in a bit. Alan always cracks me up.

[John G Smith]

Average sugar drops the longer you are in this hobby. At first it is easy to be overly generous. Most SBs should be available for $200 to 250 / session, whether 1 hr or all night. Throw in dinner, drinks, hotel you are talking $400+. Not a cheap date.

This and what others have said is spot on.

I'd just like to add, but careful which lines of negotiations you open up. For example, never explicitly say, "I'll give you 100 for 30 minutes in the FC or 200 for 6 hours. ". If you start paying her based on time, then you're literally turning her into an escort and you'll lose in the end because she'll start charging you by the hour and have a clock running in her head. Also unless you're dealing with a UTR or detached BC, avoid giving extra money for specific sexual favors. For example, don't say, "I'll give you 150 if I can give you a facial. ". Because pretty soon she'll start creating a menu and tell you for 100 more she'll swallow your cum and so on. It encourages Nando1 behavior where they try to extract every possible dollar out of you at every turn.

You can negotiate on sexual favors, but just don't directly tie money to it. The point is, you're asking for the things that will make you happy. And ultimately if you're happy, then you'll keep giving her an allowance. Same thing with time, ideally the allowance you give per visit should be the same whether she's with you for 1 hour or 12 hours. Besides with the longer dates, the girl usually benefits from free dinners, meals, and etc. But she's there for you. A good sugar baby will stay as long as you want her to given each other's schedule. Probably the easiest way to identify a Pro is that they usually won't want to spend more than one hour with you unless they're getting at least 300-500. So often times in the early discussions with a Pot, I'll throw it out there that I want to spend a whole day together on a weekend and see how she reacts.

[FredMoore]

I have a sort of similar question, although I am well aware that there are huge geographic differences. But my main problem seems to be figuring out when to discuss the sugar amount, if at all. In some of the other forums on USASG, $= 100.00. People seems to use $ here to just generically represent money. Some don't. I know HollywoodGuy posts amouints (I think and sorry if I got it wrong) and I think his posts will say something like $. 2, which I would interpret to be 120. So For newbies (and oldbees like me who have difficulty broaching the $ subject):

1) When do you first mention sugar?

2) Do you suggest the amount, or ask her what her expectations are?

3) What do you think you average sugar amount is, exclusive of dinner, drinks, hotel, etc. ?

4) How do you broach going to the FC at the first M&G beforehand? Are you just very direct? (and by this I mean some of you seem to pre-arrange a post M&G FC visit while emailing/texining prior to the M&G, although I realize unplanned FC visits after a M&G happen too...)

Thanks,

Norm!

RE FC: In my profile and 1st few emails I make it very clear that I expect "intimacy" and ask them what they are expecting to receive as an SB. The ball is in their court. Many will say " I don't know I'm new to this " I will throw out my number which right now is $100 =$ . If you can take them out and have a date in public you have an easier time of it and can get them a little tipsy, flirt, then ask if they would like to get a room for a little "private time " . You can tell if they are "feeling it " Right now I can't date out and about, so I straight up say that we will meet in a Hotel for some romance for $ . Some will bargain, some will go dark, some will say OK but only for 15 minutes.

Average sugar drops the longer you are in this hobby. At first it is easy to be overly generous. Most SBs should be available for $200 to 250 / session, whether 1 hr or all night. Throw in dinner, drinks, hotel you are talking $400+. Not a cheap date.

[DirtyDeeds38]

I have a sort of similar question, although I am well aware that there are huge geographic differences. But my main problem seems to be figuring out when to discuss the sugar amount, if at all. In some of the other forums on USASG, $= 100.00. People seems to use $ here to just generically represent money. Some don't. I know HollywoodGuy posts amouints (I think and sorry if I got it wrong) and I think his posts will say something like $. 2, which I would interpret to be 120. So For newbies (and oldbees like me who have difficulty broaching the $ subject):

1) When do you first mention sugar?

2) Do you suggest the amount, or ask her what her expectations are?

3) What do you think you average sugar amount is, exclusive of dinner, drinks, hotel, etc. ?

4) How do you broach going to the FC at the first M&G beforehand? Are you just very direct? (and by this I mean some of you seem to pre-arrange a post M&G FC visit while emailing/texining prior to the M&G, although I realize unplanned FC visits after a M&G happen too...)

Thanks,

Norm!

To summarize with my limited experience thus far, what I can say is each and every situation is a bit unique. And honestly, that is some of the thrill of this game. If I wanted, just add water and get laid, I'd go pro. In this game, the chase is a good deal of the fun. Turning some reluctant 20-something SB into a sex maniac is the best feeling in the world. As for my average, it's been way, way too high and I'm working on this now. My first two were M&G only, before finding this site and I dropped $300 and $200 on each date for simply having dinner and drinks. Bad move. I now tell them up front, I only will pay an allowance and cash per visit when she is comfortable enough to take it to the next level. I do not pay them for M&G and I'm now upfront about that. I've been paying $300 on down to $200 per visit. This does not include some travel, hotel and usually around $150 per night for dinner and drinks. I've been averaging $600-$700 per night because of this and I'm setting up something to cut this down. I am hoping to get a location secure and be able to offer $150-$200 per FC session in the near future.

Always ask the girl what she expects first and then go from there. Always work in an angle of "per visit" payments, never a set monthly allowance. You really just need to be slick and learn how to slowly angle in this type of negotiation. You cannot just come right at them, or you will lose many good girls. Even the ones that just want to have crazy sex and get right to fucking will still play a bit of hard to get and see if you can be a gentleman. So play the game. Once you get a few under your belt, you will develop a strategy that works best for you. Mine is still in the process of evolving.