"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

**HappyHunter44** · 03-01-13 13:43

John G Smith,

Nice post. Thanks. I am thinking on getting into the SB arena and this combined with a couple other posts really rounds out the required useful info. There is surely a lot to consider.

**Wnde8** · 03-01-13 12:19

I'm having a hard time decoding your report. What is CPO, GPS, UTR, CF?

**John G Smith** · 03-01-13 08:58

I take a slightly different budget approach than the CPO model when it comes to SBs. When I'm strictly concerned about my CPO, I go see an escort, UTR, and etc. Usually it's much cheaper and less of a headache. Just last week I saw a hot 18-20-ish escort for 80 for a half-hour. Pretty good experience. It got the job done, and I didn't have to book a hotel, or do my whole covert ops routine that I have to do every time I see a SB.

So when it comes to SBs, I look at the whole SB experience I'm getting, not just the pop at the end. I actually enjoy the dinner, movies, texting, and other fluffy stuff that I probably wouldn't brag about to you guys at the bar. So I examine the whole package I'm getting and then make a eBaby bid based on what I think the SB experience is worth to me and how badly I want to win the auction.

And it is an auction. The problem with offering a SB < 100, is that even if she accepts it initially, you're almost guaranteed she will either ditch you or take on another sugar daddy within a few weeks. Some guys don't care about this, but it's something to keep in mind if you do. (And BTW, offering a higher allowance alone doesn't necessarily guarantee they'll be exclusive to you either. See below)

Anyway, this is how I set my eBaby bid strategy.

- My max bid is 300 per visit. Minimum is 100. Though I regularly talk about things in terms of "expenses", so I keep my actual bid amount hidden if possible.

- If she's unemployed and doesn't goto school, I make a low bid. Making a high bid would just be a waste because she'll have too much time on her hands and will likely see multiple SDs regardless. Giving her more money will likely just encourage her even more to make being a SB her primary job. She'll either become too dependent on me beyond my resources or start banging half the SD4M members in the local area.

- If she works AND goes to school, I'll make a higher bid. In this case, a higher allowance will be effective in keeping her coming back to me only because she'll have limited time to see multiple SDs so it will be in her interest to keep me happy and not play the field as much. And since she already has a job and already has the ability to be in school on her own, she sees my sugar has a welcome bonus and maybe some relief but she's still connected to the real world. The bowl will probably be temporary for her.

- If she's a HYCB fresh to the sugar bowl, I give a moderate bid amount. Something high enough to stand out among the low-bidders, but not too high that I cause the onset of the GPS contagion too soon. There's definitely a lot of flexibility with this group, but it's also the most volatile.

- Any girl who says something like,"My normal rate is.", I instantly drop it down to my minimum bid or just revoke it entirely. She already has a Pro mentality, so I'll treat her as such. Now if she says something like "I was kinda looking for x amount.", then I might still entertain discussion. It's one thing if she has some preconceived expectations, it's another thing entirely if she already has a rate card.

If it's clear she's been a SB for a long-time, I give a low bid. With very few exceptions, I personally believe there's no such thing as a long-time SB. If a SB has been in the sugar bowl for 2+ years and / or had at least 3-4 SDs, then she's probably already transitioned into a UTR girl. She'll just cycle through the Rolodex of SDs and pots she's corresponded with over the years. I'm not bidding high on a UTR girl. She'll get the same amount as an escort.

- There's a few other things I factor in to my bid amount. If conversation is painful and I wouldn't want to be around her outside of the FC, then the bid will be low. Though if I can't have a good conversation with her at all, then I'll very likely pass on her entirely. If there's zero connection, then it's literally the same thing as seeing an escort. I'll take an escort over a personality-challenged SB simply because of the less covert work involved.

Anyway, essentially for me an ideal SB experience is a girl who strokes both ego and cock. So I base my budget on achieving those things. I could have a CPO of 80 over the course of a multi-hour evening in a hotel and yet still be unsatisfied if she's a deadfish, very distant and is difficult to communicate with. I see SBs for the "personal" touch and semi-exclusivity. Viewing it as an auction and making the appropriate bid based on what I'm looking for yields better results for me. I pay less for the things that aren't really important to me and I stay competitive for the things I do desire.

**AliasSM** · 03-01-13 06:34

Welcome to the Forum PatsFan. I have asked the question about pay several times to the experts on this forum in the past and have learned a few tricks of the trade myself. For those of you that are "CPO" conscious like I am (I think SubCmdr keyed that phrase for me anyway) , here are my observations and a summary of previous posts:

1. You don't always get what you pay for. Price doesn't guarantee quality.

2. As soon as you see the GPS attitude, run don't walk to the nearest exit.

3. Don't overpay or set expectations too high on the first visit to the FC. It's almost impossible to go lower on subsequent dates once a CPO expectation has been established.

4. Members of this forum have success at all levels of the SB price range. Some are investing $500 or more per meeting and ar happy with a CPO of 500/1, some are having success at CPO levels below 100/1. As always, there are guys that have gotten really good at the game, know how to pick their SBs, put some time in (and enjoy) the chase, and possibly have more to offer in the looks and / or charm category. Don't know how else to explain it, but if you have the time to find them, there are some real bargains out there in SB land.

My personal observations (and this may be highly dependent on your home base) :

1. Asian girls are the most expensive, especially in the 20-30 yr old category. For me, they have been almost impossible to lure to the FC in my price range. They seem to be looking for that super wealthy SD only and will not settle for less.

2. AA girls seem to be the most reasonable in their expectations of the sugar bowl.

3. Extremely young (18 to 22) SBs often (not always) have more reasonable expectations also. Once they find that one SD that will pay the GPS price, you will not likely have a chance with talking them into the lower price range.

My going rate is 150 per visit. This is after the M&G and only after the FC is assured. I pay 100 when I don't care if I see them again. I have paid more than 150 in the past, but can't say it has resulted in a better experience. My current ATF is happy at the 150 level and the CPO with her is always at least 75/1, sometimes lower if I can handle her.

I admit that I am not the expert in this matter. Others on this forum are known to keep the CPO well under 50. More power to them and maybe someday I will learn their strategies.

Alias.

Originally Posted by Pats Fan1 [View Original Post]

Pot 2:39 yr old (she's probably older) she has a job and can host. Had a coffeee meeting with her today. It went well and she wanted to get to it but I had to run. She has already texted saying she liked me and was sad I had to go. So she is a lay I can schedule whenever I want. I told her I can pay 100 per meeting. She said she usually gets more. Yeah sure.

**Pats Fan1** · 02-28-13 18:26

So I'm very new to this side of things "the bowl". I have been trolling in the escort / AMP / mp waters on and off for the last 11 yrs. So I have spent quite a few hrs RTTF. I have had an ad on sd4me for the last couple of weeks. I have several fishing lines in the water. Trying to determine and stay away from the Nando 1's. I learned that much at least. I still haven't figured out what the heck FC is. Not sure if I'm doing things right but I like the hunt. Funny thing is with each one as I start talking to them they all go out of their way to say they are not a prostitute. I always say. I know that and that's not what I'm looking for, if I was I'd be looking in a differnet place. They buy it hook line and sinker every time. Dumb broads.

Pot 1:23 yr old hottie. She is a solid 8 or 9. She has a job. I thought I had scared her off with being pretty blunt in an email asking her what she wanted out of the arrangement. We are scheduled for a coffee meeting on Sat.

Pot 2:39 yr old (she's probably older) she has a job and can host. Had a coffeee meeting with her today. It went well and she wanted to get to it but I had to run. She has already texted saying she liked me and was sad I had to go. So she is a lay I can schedule whenever I want. I told her I can pay 100 per meeting. She said she usually gets more. Yeah sure.

Pot 3:24 yr old hottie. She lives 1 1/2 hrs away so nothing scheduled yet. We talked about meeting in the middle somewhere for lunch.

Any advice or feedback from you folks is appreciated. By the way Mr. Scott your story about the boyfriend coming home in the middle of things reminded me of a similar thing I had with an escort yrs ago. Not funny at the time but funny as shit looking back on it.

**SubCmdr** · 02-28-13 12:06

I have a friend who is a straight garden tool. She told me the calculation is as follows:

Oral and / or Vaginal sex is $. That is 20 minutes. One bust. If you haven't busted by then too bad. If you bust before then, session is over. Now fetish is more expensive and a variable.

They don't want to hang out with you unless they like you anyway. They don't want to talk to you about your problems unless they like you anyway. First visit is a interview. If you pass the interview you get the opportunity for repeat visits. And she has her own frequent visitor program. Everything is up for negotiation after you make it past the first visit. She is looking for repeat visitors. Just like any good business would.

I had a SB give me a prior relationship discount. I wanted to see her. She had plans to meet someone else. She canceled her meeting with the other guy who was paying 3 times what I offered. In order to spend time with me because the drive was shorter and she liked me. 3 hours 2 busts. Always keep in mind the concept of Goodwill. It will get you further than $ ever will.

Go deep, Go HAM and prosper!

SubCmdr Out!

**SubCmdr** · 02-28-13 11:53

Originally Posted by AliasSM [View Original Post]

"Awe ok but no that's not enough someone offered me 1000 each visit and I really need that so I can get me a car so sorry guess ill go with them :/"

So which of you bast*s is paying these GPS types that kind of money? I think even if I had it, I would still hesitate to spend that much even for the finest of "garden tools".

Oh well, at least I still have my 2 backup SBs still in rotation.

Keep up the fine posts. And let me know if 1000 is anywhere near any of your going rates.

Mr AliasSM,

I dropped $$$$$ one time for a visit to the FC. CPO was $$.5 and I spent 5 hours with her. I had a great time. But, I would NEVER do that again. 1K buys me a week with ATF1, ATF2 or ATF3. That is 24/7 access to all three holes in a vacation setting. There is no sugar for the trip. That is just expenses for the vacation. Somebody out there is getting PUNKED! LOL!

Just say no to GPS!

SubCmdr Out

**Wnde8** · 02-28-13 09:30

For the guys making mid 5 figure incomes-do you guys exaggerate the income you make or put the actual amount?

**AliasSM** · 02-28-13 08:41

Originally Posted by Spitfire [View Original Post]

I doubt anyone is paying her that amount. Smells like a ploy to get you to make your max offer.

Maybe. But I know one SB pretty well that have an out of town visitor come in and take her on a 500 shopping spree with no request to go to the FC. The crazies are out there.

She may be trying to negotiate, I agree, but either way I'm moving on. No patience for the GPS fever.

**EuroInCincy** · 02-28-13 08:33

Originally Posted by Spitfire [View Original Post]

I doubt anyone is paying her that amount. Smells like a ploy to get you to make your max offer.

Yes my ATF gets regular $500/$1, 000 and more from sd's she has met. This also reflects what the comment SubCmdr referred to. It is a game! I can see her on a regular basis for a lot lot lot less. The ones she has gotten $500, $1, 000 and one time $3, 000 from don't interest her, there her garden tool nature comes out " I will 'do him' because my tuition is due". But since I have played a better role than these guys, she keeps telling me I am fun, interesting ext. So I play along thus reducing my cost per photon torpedo, and exposing her to unknown planets and cultures.

It all starts with how you approach her. And first contact is important, feel them out how the want to be assimilated with the great unit. And then adapt you discovery along that way.

Never give up Never surrender

**Spitfire** · 02-28-13 08:04

Originally Posted by AliasSM [View Original Post]

The most recent Pot is a 9 out of 10 on the HCB scale and she just started to txt with me a few days ago. I was respectful and truthful about what I could pay per visit. Not at the top end with you big spenders, but not at the bottom with you bargain hunters either. She quickly scoffed at me offer with this reply:

"Awe ok but no that's not enough someone offered me 1000 each visit and I really need that so I can get me a car so sorry guess ill go with them :/"

So which of you bast*s is paying these GPS types that kind of money? I think even if I had it, I would still hesitate to spend that much even for the finest of "garden tools".

Oh well, at least I still have my 2 backup SBs still in rotation.

Keep up the fine posts. And let me know if 1000 is anywhere near any of your going rates.

I doubt anyone is paying her that amount. Smells like a ploy to get you to make your max offer.

**SubCmdr** · 02-28-13 01:11

Originally Posted by Dsprdo [View Original Post]

I refer to the self deception of the SB. Yes, they are fucking for money. However, I don't think the real SB has quite accepted that in the way that an escort does. An escort (in most cases) is really about production: get you in, drain you (of money, certainly; of semen, if she must). A true sugarbaby wants to respect herself and believe that she is a companion and that the money is secondary. A minor difference, true, but to bolster that belief I think some are willing to make themselves more accessible in terms of time, intimacy beyond physical, and emotion. I think that can create a better experience for the SD, and thus make it worth the extra effort or cost that may go along with it. I welcome the thoughts of others on the forum on my perception.

Mr. Dsprdo,

The key to success as a SD is not to treat the SB as a garden tool. I get that! But one must always remember that a Sugar Baby has a garden tool inside of her just waiting to get out. I would like to remind my fellow Brothers under deep cover not to forget they are playing a role. So, while there is temptation to feel real emotion, until you remove the money it is not real emotion just good business. That alone will help all current, new and future SD's avoid many of the pitfalls outlined in this forum.

Leave your splooge dipping from all of their holes gentlemen!

SubCmdr out!

**AliasSM** · 02-27-13 23:23

I've been out of the SA world for a while. Content with my 2 current AA HCBs that have been taking more of my time than I really had available to give. Decided to jump back in about month ago due to a little bit boredom and a little bit curiosity if the grass was really greener. Some of you guys on this forum really make it hard to stay satisfied with the status quo, with all of your great stories and all.

Anyway, been playing the game with a few new pots. Nothing spectacular as of yet. One was definitely a Nando 1 that took me home with her after the first M&G this week. Limited oral action then marginal FS. Nothing really special. It was a quick in and out and I will not repeat Another 21 yr old HCB has scheduled 2 M&Gs with me so far and backed out of both of them at the very last minute. But still stays in touch via txt and still has my interest. Go figure. I should have learned my lesson by now.

The most recent Pot is a 9 out of 10 on the HCB scale and she just started to txt with me a few days ago. I was respectful and truthful about what I could pay per visit. Not at the top end with you big spenders, but not at the bottom with you bargain hunters either. She quickly scoffed at me offer with this reply:

"Awe ok but no that's not enough someone offered me 1000 each visit and I really need that so I can get me a car so sorry guess ill go with them :/"

So which of you bast*s is paying these GPS types that kind of money? I think even if I had it, I would still hesitate to spend that much even for the finest of "garden tools".

Oh well, at least I still have my 2 backup SBs still in rotation.

Keep up the fine posts. And let me know if 1000 is anywhere near any of your going rates.

**Dsprdo** · 02-27-13 21:34

[QUOTE=SubCmdr; 1691546]The best advice that I ever received from a Brother in the forum was: 'Remember that all of these women are fucking for money! '

That being said, there is no real difference between a escort and a sugar baby. Except for in the mind of those willing to engage in the worst form of deception: self deception.

Sub Cmdr.

I agree with your basic premise. I think there is a nuance that you may not have considered that does create a small difference, which is founded upon your second sentence above. I think you were referring to the self deception of the SD; I refer to the self deception of the SB. Yes, they are fucking for money. However, I don't think the real SB has quite accepted that in the way that an escort does. An escort (in most cases) is really about production: get you in, drain you (of money, certainly; of semen, if she must). A true sugarbaby wants to respect herself and believe that she is a companion and that the money is secondary. A minor difference, true, but to bolster that belief I think some are willing to make themselves more accessible in terms of time, intimacy beyond physical, and emotion. I think that can create a better experience for the SD, and thus make it worth the extra effort or cost that may go along with it. I welcome the thoughts of others on the forum on my perception.

**EuroInCincy** · 02-27-13 17:02

Just the illusion is given it is different.

Emailed with a new one on SA. She wanted to take it to Y messenger.

The Yesses are being worked one by one. Yes she wants to know exactly what I will do for her.

And right between a message I get this one.

"got your other email. I can't just drive up and stay the night. Would like to get to know you a little before that."

Now I not emailed her about her driving up, since she is close, and staying the night. So she is talking to me and atleast another.

See Hernando. It is all an illusion, a real life game to make our toes curl the best way.

"never give up Never surrender"