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  1. #84

    Why are there Delaware Douchebags?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seeker5901  [View Original Post]
    So I try to give back to the community whenever I can. Next thing I know a bunch of people with zero posts pm me left, right, and center. One even had the balls to attach a read reciept! Sheesh!

    Be active and contributing before you ask.
    You make a good point and one I hear often from other Big contributors around here. Often the emails leave me shaking my head. There are several types:

    1. The dude who has not contributed anything, has no posts or has only "give me" posts who asks for digits. This dude gets incensed when he doesn't get what he wants for just asking. I don't know if this is a generational thing or an internet thing? I. e. Those who grew up not learning anything, just asking whatever they needed?

    2. Those with an ego who get their knickers in a twist easily when the reply isn't what they want. Or feel slighted at the littlest of things.

    3. Those that are just plain azzh*les.

    A few pointers to others who want to avoid looking like the above.

    A. READ THE FREAKING THREADS! When I first started many moons ago, I read EVERY post in Delaware! EVERYONE. Shoot it took a few months, but the "education" was invaluable! Sure some of it was dated as "the Office" was no longer around, but it was fruitful to see that discussion for any number of reasons. I think most guys post to share and help others, rather than an ego trip of "hey, look at what I bagged!

    B. Try to build some cred (credibility)! Post counts don't means squat. I have seen guys sign up one day and get Sr. Status the next. They run all over the general discussion boards and post profound stuff like, "good post"! Anyone who does that is gaming the system and gets a black mark in my book. Look, I initially built cred here by reading the threads and asking technique questions. That showed I was interested and trying. Shoot I even posted once about seeing a girl on the pay phone at Memorial & Rte9 - but still that showed I was in the game and trying. There have been a few posters over the years that showed up asked technique questions and became good compatriots! You don't have to post 3 reports every week, but demonstrating you are in the game and being helpful goes a long way. Building cred is a good objective. It opens the doors to those with contacts.

    C. Try to keep your ego in check, (OMFG! Did he just say that??? Pot-Kettle-Black! LOL!) if things don't initially go your way. Give some slack to others who have contributed and are willing to share. After all they maybe bombarded with PMs from the three types above. I mean even if you are a 20-year veteran to the stroll, you still need to demonstrate that to build cred, or at least show some respect to the locals. Do you go to a buddy's house, pizz all over his front porch and then get excited when he objects? Look, in the long run this is only wh*remongering! What is to be gained by becoming "the big dog" amongst a bunch of mongers? Lighten up, have fun.

    D. If you want something, have something to give. Look, I have YEARS of experience and knowledge in this game. I earned every inch of it, some through "the school of hard knocks", some by certain sacrifices, some by a lot of time & energy. As they say, Knowledge is power. So why should I give away all of that for free and get nothing out of it? What have you got to offer me in return? I mean sheet, haven't I posted enough tips, tricks and info to have built up a few Karma points? So if you want something from another poster, isn't it fair to have something to share in return?

    This can be a wonderful place, with lots of info and friends. But each dude needs to do his part, share as much as they take or even share a bit more. If everyone does that then everyone wins. Otherwise we devolve into the three types above.

    Stay safe,

    - Delaware's Chief Douchebag!
    and resident Azzh*le!!!!

  2. #83

    No Post Knuckleheads

    So I try to give back to the community whenever I can. Next thing I know a bunch of people with zero posts pm me left, right, and center. One even had the balls to attach a read reciept! Sheesh!

    Be active and contributing before you ask.

  3. #82

    Analysis of BackPage Indictment. Part 5 - Where BP went off the rails

    https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...8/Backpage.pdf

    Sorry if this section is long and a bit tedious, just wanted to lay out the LONG history where BP could have acted.

    So as early as Nov 2010, BP was aware that adverts used the term "Lolita" in them and that referred to under-aged girls. BP suggestion was that this term could be stripped out of the ads and the ad posted anyway, not refusing to post ad or reporting it.

    Then later in Nov 2010, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) had a conference call with BP where BP was told that many of the ads on BP featured children.

    In January 2011, BP met with a rep from NCMEC and BP told them, "adult prostitution is none of your business. " Again in March 2011 BP met with NCMEC.

    In July 2011 BP discussed internally the possibility of using age-verification software. CF acknowledged the software could be beneficial (This might be our solution) but recommended against its wholesale adoption because it would cost 79 to 99 cents per query and would thus cut into Backpagess profits.

    August 2011 the mayor of Seattle wrote that LE had identified that an alarming number of juveniles were advertised on BP and recommended BP require age verification for "escorts. " BP declined to adopt.

    In October 2011, BP had discussions about the under age issue. With respect to one particular proposal, C.F. acknowledged it was a good one but recommended against adopting it because Backpage would not derive any public relations benefit from doing so: This is a good idea but it is not visible to AGs (state attorneys general) so it has little PR value. It is low priority.

    April 2012, BP was informed that one escort depicted on the site was only 17 years old. The girl's full name, both year were provided and it was noted the 17 yo was attempting to recruit the complaining party's 15 yo daughter. BP advised staff to refuse to remove the ad because shes isn't claiming her own daughter is in the ad.

    Does not appear to this writer that the 17 yo's advert was reported to LE or anything further was done.

    November 2012 AZ State Univ researcher published a study on Phoenix BP adverts showing many depicted juvenile trafficking. Researcher met with BP to propose various mechanisms for reducing or eliminating the prostitution of children. BP declined to adopt proposals.

    June 2013, NCMEC sent a letter to BP recommending specific security measures to prevent trafficking of children. BP declined to follow any of these recommendations.

    Are you exhausted yet? BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE!

    January 2017 A Senate subcommittee issued a report "Backpage.com's Knowing Facilitation of Online Sex Trafficking" Backpage has maintained a practice of altering ads before publication by deleting words, phrases and images indicative of the criminality, including child sex trafficking In response, BP shut down the adult section of its website but allowed the traffic to migrate to other sections.

    So it appears as though numerous sources came to BP, hat in hand with concerns over under aged girls. Not only did they provide proof, but they offered to help BP by providing tangible things BP could do to to help with the issue. It appears that in most cases BPs response was to strip offending text or pictures from ads but continuing to post them. So BP had many opportunities to do the right thing when it came to trafficking and to the under aged issue but failed to act.

    I mean REALLY? That many people trying to work with you, not to shut down your business, but modify it a bit so the worst stuff gets removed / reported and you thumb your nose at them?

    It is no surprise to me that after years of effort to "work with" BP, that the response was an act of Congress and a new over-reaching public law. IMHO BP actions were irresponsible and in doing so it scr*wed over the entire industry!

  4. #81

    Analysis of BackPage Indictment. Part 4 History of BP

    https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...8/Backpage.pdf

    BackPage grew out of an alternative newspaper, Phoenix New Times, which frequently featured ads for prostitution. By 2000 the rise of the internet and Craigslist with free classified advertising, began to cut into PNT's revenues since they depended on classified advertising.

    So BackPage was created as an alternative to CL. In January 2006 BP supplied only 1% of ad revenues. By 2008, BackPage was generating $5 million (MM) in annual profit. 2009 it increased to $10 MM profit.

    In 2010 Craigslist shutdown its Adult Services sections due to illegal services. BP anticipated a deluge of adult content advertising. Annual profits in 2010 were $26 MM, $52 MM in 2011 and $78 MM in 2012. Profits grew to $112 MM in 2013 and over $134 MM in 2014..

    In 2015, the founders LACEY and LARKIN sold their ownership interest for $600 MM in what looks like a shell game of companies to hide true ownership. The purchasers borrowed most of the money used to buy BP.

    As early as 2008, BP was aware that a majority of the adult ads involved prostitution, yet made a financial decision to continue. They didn't want to be in an uncompetitive position relative to CL.

    In response to pressure, BP started to moderate and clean up adverts- removing sex act pictures and coded terms for prostitution.

    In 2010, CF testified in a criminal trial of a pimp who used the email address "Youngpimpin86" in a BP ad. The Indictment states, "This episode provided notice to Backpage that it was implausible to pretend such ads were merely offering lawful escort services. ".

    A second time in 2010 CF of BP testified in court in the criminal trial of a pimp who used BP adverts.

    Then a series of emails periodically when BP gave guidance to its moderators on stripping out offensive pictures and text, but kept the advertisement. But it looks like guidance wavered and changed. Remember, in 2010 profits jumped from $10 MM (2009) to $26 MM (2010) headed for $52 MM in 2011.

    But what comes next appears to this writer to be egregious.

  5. #80

    Analysis of BackPage Indictment. Part 3

    https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...8/Backpage.pdf

    7) Looking at the "history" of BackPage as laid out in para 1 -157 is interesting and dismaying. At one point I was an advocate of BP stating that they worked with LE on trafficking and under-aged cases. The presented facts seem to differ and my opinion has changed.

    *the following is my opinion of what I read *.

    This lays out a litany of behavior that is incomprehensible to this reader.

    A. BP had MANY warnings that what it was doing was on the fringe of the law and thus a risk to the business and principles. In spite of numerous warnings, the facts presented seem to indicate that BP did little or nothing. Or the bare minimum. Now maybe this is historical revisionism on my part looking back, as things or the environment could have been different way back then. But still it looks like these guys put profits first. When your business faces a risk, one needs to clearly evaluate the risk and make appropriate adjustments to manage that risk. It in not clear that that is what BP did!

    I remember some changes in BP over the years. It use to be the wild west (I. E. Unregulated & anything goes) with pictures of genital and even a few with sex acts. The language was clear that sex acts were for sale and prices were listed. THEN at one point I remember, BP put in place a prohibition against nudity, sex acts. Also somewhere along the line they issued warnings about mentioning sex for money or using code words to get around such. Then as pressure built they shutdown the adult services section, but allowed the traffic to migrate to the "dating" section.

    The documents show that BP had teams in AZ and vendors in India, etc who would review adverts and "edit" them to remove pictures and text that were unacceptable. But herein lies the rub. BP was afraid of loosing customers that they edited text and kept the adverts, even when they were clearly illegal: trafficking or under-aged.

    B. Second, when it came to under-aged stuff on their site, BP essentially turned a blind eye. For example when adverts came if with an age of 17, they were rejected, but accepted once the poster changed the advert to 19. Instead of reporting under-aged stuff, they had a list of prohibited words (like Lolita) that were stripped from the advert, rather than rejected or reported to authorities. In fact, BP was afraid that they might exceed 500 trafficking/under-age reports in a month so caution reviewers against that.

    C. Several LE agencies or related NGOs met with or corresponded with BP about the under-aged stuff (several times, different groups) and BP was given specific steps they could take to to eliminate such. One such suggestion was age-verification software, but BP deemed that would cost 79-99-cents per search and cut into profits.

    I'll dig out some of the specifics in the allegations are they are numerous and post them when I can.

  6. #79

    Analysis of BackPage Indictment. Part 2

    https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...8/Backpage.pdf

    2) This indictment is against seven (7) defendants. The two founders of BackPage (LACEY & LARKIN), SPEAR an Exec VP, BRUNST CFO, HYER Sales & Marketing Director, PADILLA Ops Mgr and VAUGHT Asst Ops Mgr.

    Now I note that one of the founders, is identified as "C. F. " in the indictment documents is NOT one of the defendants. So perhaps this individual has cut a deal and is a witness for the prosecution?

    3) The Defendants are charged 93 separate counts or charges which include: Conspiracy, Facilitating Prostitution and 4 separate charges related to Money Laundering. 50 of the charges related directly to Facilitating Prostitution. So 54% of the charges. One charges relates to Conspiracy and the rest are related to Money Laundering (44%) Oh and there is a Charge for forfeiture allegations. I. e. Gubmint seizing assets!

    4) The indictment doc lays out the background of BackPage and its history as it relates to the alleged illegal acts. This takes 156 paragraphs and 40 pages. The charges are laid out in para 157 through 171, including tables over 13 pages.

    5) The final charge the Forfeiture Allegations take up another 4 pages. This shows the assets the gubmint wishes to seize as:

    10 properties in CA, AZ, TX and IL.

    25 Bank and Brokerage Accounts in USA and the world.

    35 separate web domain names.

    6) The indictment lays out details of 17 victims that were sold for sex using BP adverts. Some under-aged.

  7. #78

    Analysis of BackPage Indictment. Part 1

    https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...8/Backpage.pdf

    OK, I have read the BP Indictment and have these observations:

    1) This is an indictment by a Federal Grand Jury in the District Court of Arizona. This in itself is "interesting. " A Grand Jury is not a normal proceeding or trial. Its purpose is to make a determination "whether there is enough evidence, or probable cause, to indict a criminal suspect. " This is key as two things at work. First the standard of "probable cause" is a low bar and second only the prosecutor is present to present whatever fact he wishes.

    Unlike a normal jury trial or a preliminary hearing, which are BOTH adversarial processes and thus a seeking of "the truth," the Grand Jury only hearrs one side of the story in order to determine "probable cause" for determining IF a crime has been committed. It is certainly a easier standard than a direct arrest and the a preliminary hearing before a judge, when rules of evidence, testimony from both sides and a determination by one knowledgeable in the law decide if the charges are valid.

    Since it is a pretty low bar prosecutor has to hurdle in order to get an indictment, there is a joke in the legal community that any good prosecutor could get and indictment against a ham sandwich! Remember only one side or one view of the facts is presented.

    So the fact that this action is an indictment suggests that perhaps this was a weaker case, and that all of the charges that were made against the defendants may not stick or survive scrutiny by a judge.

    Also there are many technicalities and details of case law that are likely relevant to these charges, all of which is the bailiwick of lawyers, not MB posters. So we'll see.

    Of course with SESTA-FOSTA soon to be signed into law and it retroactive provisions, perhaps these charges stick?

  8. #77

    What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by PinHead11  [View Original Post]
    What if we posted ads in the resume, missed connections and a few other sections that have a link for USA adult classifieds. I'm sure the girls are looking there.
    Great thought! Really like the "out of the box" thinking!

    A few others have reported that they tried this and CL has been super vigilant in sniffing out these and blocking the users or deleting their accounts or whatever. I know in the State of DE, those with Comcast internet service, one gets assigned a static IP address. With Comcast, from what I have read and in my experience, one has to leave their modem unplugged for 72-hours in order to generate a new IP address for the account. So that is a tough way around any block by CL.

    I can see it only getting worse at CL, as they work to avoid getting their site seized.

    So the key is what is next? A migration to sites like USA Sex Guide's Adult Classified Site? A return to posting about UTR girls on Bulletin Boards? Yahoo Groups?

  9. #76

    Craigslist ad link

    What if we posted ads in the resume, missed connections and a few other sections that have a link for USA adult classifieds. I'm sure the girls are looking there.

  10. #75

    Wise Man

    Quote Originally Posted by JRichard  [View Original Post]
    Big City and few others now have the same message as CL. Hang on tho what ever phone numbers you have. I plan on taking time tomorrow to go through them. And purge the ones that are turned off and reconnect with some others that I have not seen in a while.
    Good advice as we step into a brave new world!

    Don't forget to mention USA Adult Classifieds to your UTR girls. Looks like a viable alternative to the slowly shrinking websites.

    http://usaadultclassifieds.info/clas...s&action=clear

    Wonder what we need to do to get the usage up by providers?

    looks like there is good adoption in Ohio, Tennessee and other places! Why not here?

  11. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Seeker5901  [View Original Post]
    Please forgive my little rant here. If a fellow posts a report on a new friend and others PM him and say "Hi, I'd like to meet your friend. One of my friends is looking for new friends too. Could we swap info?" I feel it is a bit unfair for fellows B, C, etcetera to take fellow A's info and leave him hanging.
    Agreed! Such behavior only discourages sharing, IMHO. Which appears to be counter to the purpose of this website.

  12. #73

    Another site is down.

    Big City and few others now have the same message as CL. Hang on tho what ever phone numbers you have. I plan on taking time tomorrow to go through them. And purge the ones that are turned off and reconnect with some others that I have not seen in a while.

  13. #72

    UTR sharing

    Please forgive my little rant here. If a fellow posts a report on a new friend and others PM him and say "Hi, I'd like to meet your friend. One of my friends is looking for new friends too. Could we swap info?" I feel it is a bit unfair for fellows B, C, etcetera to take fellow A's info and leave him hanging.

  14. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by JRichard  [View Original Post]
    What if this site is shut down for some reason, legal or otherwise. Is there a back plan or site that we know about in advance and can continue sharing information without missing a step?
    From what I read of posts by Admin other places, this site is not going anywhere. This site is apparently hosted OFFSHORE, that means in a foreign country where USA laws do not apply. So to go after this site for some liability would require international connections, embassys, blah, blah, blah that would take time and lots of money. Ever wonder why your favorite gambling site is hosted in some foreign country? Same reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRichard  [View Original Post]
    I noticed locally and in other areas the CL posts have migrated to Activity Partners.

    Any thoughts?
    Thanks! We can follow the migration, but suspect if CL catches wind of that, that section will be shutdown too. CL has repeatedly, over the years shown a HUGE risk aversion, that with this new law will continue.

    Love to see where else the traffic migrates.

  15. #70

    Here is a question.

    What if this site is shut down for some reason, legal or otherwise. Is there a back plan or site that we know about in advance and can continue sharing information without missing a step?

    I can't remember how I came upon this site. But CL was actually listed as a source for job postings in a PA Department of Unemployment publication back around 2004. That's how I came upon that one, back when the site was really good.

    I noticed locally and in other areas the CL posts have migrated to Activity Partners.

    Any thoughts?

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