Yeah that's part reason why I was seeking advice. I worked my ass off the last decade to have the bank to do this.
Like 80 percent of me is okay being married and settled but 20% of me wants more and more adventure.
I've had several people say $500 per visit with an expect $2000 a month budget is good. Thanks to all the advice I've done the math and feel comfortable to start there but I was getting ready to offer her $800 per visit LOL.
A little trick which has always worked for me is to offer a little more for the first visit & then less for any further visit. Start with $400 & then $300 for every visit after.
500 is higher than you need to pay in Atlanta. You can get really good mid 20's single moms for 200-300. As FarAway hinted at, you actually end up hitting diminishing returns pretty hard at higher amounts. Joydrop is paying 0 for his unicorn. I've done anywhere from 150-400 allowance, and the sex was NEVER worth more than 300. I wrote up an analysis awhile back when I had a really successful month, comparing experiences for price, and concluded that actually paying more results in worse sex. Girls that want that much are pretty enough to command it and therefore never learn to be "good" in bed. They can starfish and will have a line of guys waiting to see them because they are "insta" pretty. Do you want boring sex with an 8 or fantastic mind blowing sex with a 7? Because in my experience, the more you pay, the worse it usually is. Especially if you're looking for a long term side girlfriend, you don't want someone who is only seeing you because you're a high PPM. It almost certainly means she's $ focused, which means she's seeing you and a few others as well. Don't fall into the trap of thinking "more $ leads to better. " These aren't luxury cars. I suppose if you absolutely want to nail a co ed with a perfect body, 500ppm would guarantee you that.
Well said GoneForGood, this post needs to go in the posts of distinction thread. My hobby budget allowance is in the 150-300 range and I'm doing pretty well.
You should be getting tip top quality at that allowance. Instagram model quality. I have an IG model I get at 500 per, but she isn't orgasmic w / me, and overall the sex is just pretty good, not mind-blowing. She likes me because I am nice, clean, etc. And is always making me propositions. I am routinely turning those down. And note the market is different in different places. When I travel to a city I try to calibrate that.
More than 500 won't likely buy you a better experience.
Kind of weird but she she actually is an insta model who spent some time in Dubai. She moved to the states after she cut it off with her fiancée in Dubai and decided to relocate here with her mom whom lives here. She got here 5 months ago and she still doesn't know people here. She said I was her second date but the first was a disaster two gay guys trying to experience something with a girl lmfao. Anyways I'm likely to be the youngest guy in my area with the bag to offer her stability. Sex the first time was orgasmic for her but I think because she hasn't gotten any since she got here. With that being said I feel I could be cheaper but one thing to keep in mind is pump and dump escorts here in Myrtle was no less than 120/150 qv yes it's ridiculous and there is legit no girls in my area anymore which is why I'm excited about this chick. She young. Latina, hot as hell, cute face, and has the Brains.
Yeah that's part reason why I was seeking advice. I worked my ass off the last decade to have the bank to do this.
Like 80 percent of me is okay being married and settled but 20% of me wants more and more adventure.
I've had several people say $500 per visit with an expect $2000 a month budget is good. Thanks to all the advice I've done the math and feel comfortable to start there but I was getting ready to offer her $800 per visit LOL.
You should be getting tip top quality at that allowance. Instagram model quality. I have an IG model I get at 500 per, but she isn't orgasmic w / me, and overall the sex is just pretty good, not mind-blowing. She likes me because I am nice, clean, etc. And is always making me propositions. I am routinely turning those down. And note the market is different in different places. When I travel to a city I try to calibrate that.
More than 500 won't likely buy you a better experience.
500 is higher than you need to pay in Atlanta. You can get really good mid 20's single moms for 200-300. As FarAway hinted at, you actually end up hitting diminishing returns pretty hard at higher amounts. Joydrop is paying 0 for his unicorn. I've done anywhere from 150-400 allowance, and the sex was NEVER worth more than 300. I wrote up an analysis awhile back when I had a really successful month, comparing experiences for price, and concluded that actually paying more results in worse sex. Girls that want that much are pretty enough to command it and therefore never learn to be "good" in bed. They can starfish and will have a line of guys waiting to see them because they are "insta" pretty. Do you want boring sex with an 8 or fantastic mind blowing sex with a 7? Because in my experience, the more you pay, the worse it usually is. Especially if you're looking for a long term side girlfriend, you don't want someone who is only seeing you because you're a high PPM. It almost certainly means she's $ focused, which means she's seeing you and a few others as well. Don't fall into the trap of thinking "more $ leads to better. " These aren't luxury cars. I suppose if you absolutely want to nail a co ed with a perfect body, 500ppm would guarantee you that.
Yeah that's part reason why I was seeking advice. I worked my ass off the last decade to have the bank to do this.
Like 80 percent of me is okay being married and settled but 20% of me wants more and more adventure.
I've had several people say $500 per visit with an expect $2000 a month budget is good. Thanks to all the advice I've done the math and feel comfortable to start there but I was getting ready to offer her $800 per visit LOL.
You should be getting tip top quality at that allowance. Instagram model quality. I have an IG model I get at 500 per, but she isn't orgasmic w / me, and overall the sex is just pretty good, not mind-blowing. She likes me because I am nice, clean, etc. And is always making me propositions. I am routinely turning those down. And note the market is different in different places. When I travel to a city I try to calibrate that.
More than 500 won't likely buy you a better experience.
One more place you need to go. The Richmond VA board. There is an archive of highly useful past posts on sugaring. It used to be that the Richmond thread was the de facto national thread, people from all over posted there. It has died down a fair amount lately, but the old wisdom is still good.
That being said, typically sugaring is a game for guys in their 40's and up. And there is particular attraction of some girls on the site to much older guys. I personally am very grateful for that. I've had SB one-third my age. Don't be trying this yourself, obviously. And then most younger guys don't have the bank to do it, or don't want to spend theirs that way.
Yeah that's part reason why I was seeking advice. I worked my ass off the last decade to have the bank to do this.
Like 80 percent of me is okay being married and settled but 20% of me wants more and more adventure.
I've had several people say $500 per visit with an expect $2000 a month budget is good. Thanks to all the advice I've done the math and feel comfortable to start there but I was getting ready to offer her $800 per visit LOL.
Got one looking for new friends. She is asking for 300, do your own negotiations. If you look good she'll go bbfscip no problems. I believe she is late 20's / early 30's. Can host off North Druid Hills in her apartment.
You're right I did post in multiple places. They're not at random. I've actually visited those places before, but the reason why is because there is a wealth of knowledge out there men with real experience. Unfortunately, in my hometown, the game is dying if you look through the sugar baby forum you'll see how bad it is. So if I post it in Myrtle and only Myrtle, I would've never gotten the drop from Jay. Were all here for the same reason why settle for one when you can have as many as you'd like..
One more place you need to go. The Richmond VA board. There is an archive of highly useful past posts on sugaring. It used to be that the Richmond thread was the de facto national thread, people from all over posted there. It has died down a fair amount lately, but the old wisdom is still good.
That being said, typically sugaring is a game for guys in their 40's and up. And there is particular attraction of some girls on the site to much older guys. I personally am very grateful for that. I've had SB one-third my age. Don't be trying this yourself, obviously. And then most younger guys don't have the bank to do it, or don't want to spend theirs that way.
This girl is for real and fairly chill and laid back. She needs some $ pretty badly right now, and is probably open to car dates as well. She is ok with BBBJ. Not sure about BBFS, but might depend on the the monger and the PPM amount. Anyway, she is in a bad spot and some money would help her out, so perhaps one of you gents can meet up with her.
Ok, one last note about Marie, that I am still talking to her and she really does need $$$ (don't we all), but she said it's ok to give out her # to some guys who don't have Seeking subscription. I'll have to go back at post history to make sure the guy seems safe (and not possibly LE), but feel free to PM me for her digits, if you have a fairly long and reputable post history. And I'm not trying to be a "gatekeeper" here, but I'm sure you understand.
Or actually...I got her on the Signal app, so why would I give out her #, when it's safer for her, and for you, to just contact her on there. So I will go that route instead.
Get an app like Airguard to make sure you know if someone puts an air tag or something similar in your bag or on your car. I don't think they pick up professional grade trackers, but if your SO has a PI on you, you're cooked anyway.
A lot of great advice in here, but since you pointed out you have a warden at home. This is at the top of the list for me. Its the little things that get you caught up.
What worked for me is having a routine that can be easily swap for a meet-up. For example, going out to drink to watch a game or something do that and do it consistently, also invite the wife a few times. Do that enough times till your wife is comfortable with you going out for a few hours with low communication, so you can use one of the days to do your meetup.
Also always always have a plan, in case you have to explain something away. Making up a story on the spot will make things worst.
The OP got a wealth of info out of Joydrop, and I can say to heed it, because he did the same for me 5 years ago. He's a longtime bowl bud; you can't imagine the quality of experiences he's had. If you got 1/10th of his scores, you will be happy.
However, the OP did post pretty much the exact same solicitation on a dozen or more sugar thread across the country. Makes me a little curious about what his ulterior motives might be.
You're right I did post in multiple places. They're not at random. I've actually visited those places before, but the reason why is because there is a wealth of knowledge out there men with real experience. Unfortunately, in my hometown, the game is dying if you look through the sugar baby forum you'll see how bad it is. So if I post it in Myrtle and only Myrtle, I would've never gotten the drop from Jay. We’re all here for the same reason why settle for one when you can have as many as you'd like.
Why settle for for one post in one area when posting in a few pages will increase my chances of getting real advice.
Remember, your home address is on your insurance and registration card in your glove box unless you have a PO box listed. Be careful not to allow to much searching in your car or forgetting something in the car trick.
There's great advice in the previous comments below. The sugarbaby dynamic has been exceptionally rewarding for me personally. Like you I am married and I fully intend to stay that way, so my first and most critically important rule has always been to keep everything as discreet as possible. I have always sought out longer term girlfriend type relationships and have been very successful on that front. There are SO MANY young women out there in their 20's living their best life who are very happy to have an older successful man in their life, even if he's married. Many of them prefer dating married guys - even BEING COMMITTED to married guys - given they don't have any desire to settle down. That is a tremendous opportunity for guys like us, and those are the girls I look for. I've posted about this before, but a quick recap: My first girlfriend and I saw each other for a year before she decided she wanted me to leave my wife. That was never going to happen so it would be fair to say I learned a lot about what NOT to do going forward. I used that experience to approach things differently with the next girlfriend; that worked out much better and she & I saw each other for four years. That was an exceptionally good relationship and very rewarding for us both. I'm now in my 3rd long term girlfriend situation which is my best yet BY FAR. I won't bore you with the details, but suffice to say I have hit the SB jackpot and found the unicorn of all unicorns. I've got it so good you guys wouldn't believe me if I told you. We have been together for almost 4 years at this point and we're both very happy with how things have turned out. She's in her late twenties, she's focused on her career goals and is in no hurry to settle down. We're in a really good spot with each other. She loves her role as my trophy girlfriend and treats me better than any woman I've ever been with. There is absolutely zero drama. She honestly brings a tremendous amount of value to my life, and I'm lucky to have her. Life is good.
I've been very fortunate to have these experiences over the past 12 years with no issues at all at home (knock on wood). To emphasize and add to some of the points below:
- Be very upfront about the type of arrangement or relationship you want in the short term and long term. It's very beneficial when you both know you're on the same page.
- It's important to talk about what you both want out of the relationship. It's even more important to talk about boundaries and set clear limits so you both know that you have no chance of a future together. That will help her keep things in perspective as the relationship progresses.
- The best candidates for the type of relationship I'm looking for either aren't looking for an allowance, or it's not at the top of their list of priorities. They want the experience - they want to be squired around town, they want the nice dinners that guys their age can't afford, they want the sex and orgasms that guys their age can't give them. Vet your potential SB's carefully. If they lead with questions in the early conversations about how much of an allowance you can offer, they're obviously focused on the money. That's not necessarily a deal breaker, but I always sought out women that were fairly self sufficient. That eliminates a LOT of potential problems down the road. The counter argument is that the allowance keeps things more business-like, and that's a fair point. I have always preferred to spend my time with women who didn't have a financial incentive to be there ... your mileage may vary.
- Get full panel STD tests for you both up front. This can be done discreetly and anonymously.
- Use birth control. Be paranoid about it. Have a serious talk with your girl about what happens if she gets pregnant so you're both on the same page. This is actually such a huge issue that I would never have been able to do this had I not gotten a vasectomy beforehand. If you're not already snipped you should very seriously consider it.
- Keep your personal details hidden. Don't use your real name for AT LEAST the first year. If you're into short term arrangements, use whatever fake name you want. But if your intent is to go long term, I would recommend using your real first name with a different last name just so you don't have to make an awkward switch somewhere down the road. Your SB will eventually know your real name. It will be on the TV in a hotel, she'll see it on the credit card when you pay for dinner, she'll see it on something in your car. It's going to happen. Plan accordingly.
- Given she will eventually know your name, take the initiative to clean up and lock down your online profiles NOW. Set your Facebook account to private and make sure there are no public posts on your page. Do the same for all of your wife's social accounts.
- I found it very helpful to be up front and honest with my girls as much as possible. I told them there would be things they would ask that I couldn't tell them, or maybe parts of my life I couldn't share with them, but rather than lie about it I would always do my best to tell them exactly that. When you explain that keeping your home together for your kids depends on it, the good ones will understand and respect your position.
- Use an app on your phone to keep all of your communications hidden. I recommend Google Voice for initial comms as you can be completely anonymous. If you get to the point where you are comfortable assuming a little more risk with your SB I recommend switching to WhatsApp as it offers a great option to keep private conversations hidden and secure. WhatsApp will reveal your real phone number to anyone you communicate with, so that's why you need to wait until you fully trust the girl to use it.
- Don't leave a paper trail. Use cash. When you can't use cash, use a Vanilla Visa card or similar. Create a firewall between your real life and your SB life and don't ever breach it. It takes a lot of discipline, but the consequences will be severe if you don't.
- Never let your guard down. Keep your head on a swivel and pay close attention to the small comments your girl makes, the little things she does that tip you off to being dishonest or any sort of instability or personality traits / character issues that could threaten your situation at home. My best advice is to end the relationship at the first sign of trouble. You're married, there is no margin for error. I've found the tipping point on all my relationships to be somewhere around the one year mark. By that time you'll have a pretty good idea if your girl is emotionally and mentally stable.
- Don't change any of your patterns at home. Never take risks or do anything unusual in the service of your SB relationship. That's the first thing that tips off the wife that something is amiss.
- Finally, as in all things in life, always hope for the best but plan for the worst. Give yourself outs. Don't take unnecessary risks. If the wife thinks you're in Toledo for business when you're out of town with your SB, actually be in Toledo. Always be very deliberate about the chances you take and be vigilant - never let your guard down. Take the time to think through your worst case scenarios and have plausible excuses well rehearsed and ready to go.
Obviously this is just a quick list of general pointers. Feel free to send me a PM to discuss this further, I'm happy to share more insight on what's worked for me. Good luck!
You knocked that out of the park. Not much can be added to improve.
- Don't change any of your patterns at home. Never take risks or do anything unusual in the service of your SB relationship. That's the first thing that tips off the wife that something is amiss.
A lot of great advice in here, but since you pointed out you have a warden at home. This is at the top of the list for me. Its the little things that get you caught up.
What worked for me is having a routine that can be easily swap for a meet-up. For example, going out to drink to watch a game or something do that and do it consistently, also invite the wife a few times. Do that enough times till your wife is comfortable with you going out for a few hours with low communication, so you can use one of the days to do your meetup.
Also always always have a plan, in case you have to explain something away. Making up a story on the spot will make things worst.
Why would you use Whatsapp over Signal? Whatsapp is owned by Meta / FB and is closed source code, so you basically have to trust Zuck.
I'm not doing anything illegal so tbh Zuck's closed source code isn't high on my list on concerns.
It also requires access to all of the contacts on your phone to even work.
That's actually not true. I am using Whatsapp successfully every day and have not given WhatsApp access to my contacts. The new option they recently introduced to keep hidden conversations secured with a code entered in the search bar is a GREAT feature. If you don't know to enter that code in the search bar, there's absolutely no indication that any hidden conversations exist. I do appreciate Zuck for that LOL.
Signal is a great option as well, and maybe even better in that you can use it anonymously, so thanks for pointing that out. In my case WhatsApp worked for me and my girl as we both already had it on our phones to communicate with friends and colleagues overseas. That's very beneficial to me as the wife doesn't think anything of it if she happens to catch a glimpse of me using the app on my phone. That wouldn't be true with Signal.
Originally Posted by Xcvxxx
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