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Instead of looking through Connecticut - other areas, or New Haven -general reports, etc., here is a subforum for massage parlor reprts for New Haven and vicinity.
If one can get a happy ending at a massage parlor in downtown New Haven I don't know about it. However, there is at least one Korean Massage Parlor readily accessible by a short city bus ride from downtown New Haven. It has been around for a while and advertises in the usual places. Senior members with quality posts can PM me for details if they can't figure out where this is located.
It is totally discreet from the street. In fact, to get to it you need to walk through the Dunkin' Donuts parking lot, or down a narrow footpath past an auto body shop set in from the street. The building is a large gray sided box looking like a midscale office building. I pushed through the front doors not sure that this was the right entrance. But the entry room led to your typical KMP door with buzzer, so I felt right at home. A little middle aged mamasan came and took me to a room. I gave her the $60 house fee and she left.
I got naked like usual. There was a knock on the door. I expected it to be the provider, like usual, so I called out, "come in." It was the mamasan with the provider, to make the introduction. So I was introduced, butt naked. The mamasan seemed pretty cool about it.
I think the girl was called Amby like the guy who won the Boston Marathon before our younger members were born. She was tall, slender, and apparently actually young, not just well preserved. There was a slight belly bulge which was more than made up for by a nice handful of natural boobs. With her shoes off she might have been slightly shorter than my 5 foot 7. A nice, rather heart shaped, face. Most of this I observed later, For now, off to the table shower room.
It was pretty standard. She hosed the table off. I hopped on face down. She scrubbed my whole back half nicely. "Turn over." She did a nice job scrbbing my rock hard cock. Somehow it does seem to respond to the presence of youth and beauty, although the older ladies often have good technique to compensate.
Back to the room I lay face down on the bed. She did a bit of scrabbling at my back with her hands. I got the impression she was rather new at the biz. Again, made up for by her other qualities. I know some of you out there would just love to show her the ropes. She asked if I had been there before. No. Seemed a bit nervous about that. What do you do? I told her. Are you married? No. What do I want to do? Everything. At which point I presented her with a hundred dollar bill. Oddly, instead of me lying down face up, she got on the massage table. I stroked her nice young flesh. Nothing in the world seems better. We exchanged places. Nothing crazy. BJ, some very nice missionary activity. I finished by hand as usual because of my retarded ejaculation condition. She was very attentive throughout and cleaned me off nicely. I even got a little kiss, so I guess she liked me. The mamasan showed me out a side door. I started to go through the wrong door. If any of you monger readers got a slight scare, sorry about that. This place is a little far for me, but is obviously popular as 2 or 3 other guys were there while I was (they were very quiet).
Double Nickle
[QUOTE=Double Nickle]If one can get a happy ending at a massage parlor in downtown New Haven I don't know about it. However, there is at least one Korean Massage Parlor readily accessible by a short city bus ride from downtown New Haven. It has been around for a while and advertises in the usual places. Senior members with quality posts can PM me for details if they can't figure out where this is located.
It is totally discreet from the street. In fact, to get to it you need to walk through the Dunkin' Donuts parking lot, or down a narrow footpath past an auto body shop set in from the street. The building is a large gray sided box looking like a midscale office building. I pushed through the front doors not sure that this was the right entrance. But the entry room led to your typical KMP door with buzzer, so I felt right at home. A little middle aged mamasan came and took me to a room. I gave her the $60 house fee and she left.
I got naked like usual. There was a knock on the door. I expected it to be the provider, like usual, so I called out, "come in." It was the mamasan with the provider, to make the introduction. So I was introduced, butt naked. The mamasan seemed pretty cool about it.
I think the girl was called Amby like the guy who won the Boston Marathon before our younger members were born. She was tall, slender, and apparently actually young, not just well preserved. There was a slight belly bulge which was more than made up for by a nice handful of natural boobs. With her shoes off she might have been slightly shorter than my 5 foot 7. A nice, rather heart shaped, face. Most of this I observed later, For now, off to the table shower room.
It was pretty standard. She hosed the table off. I hopped on face down. She scrubbed my whole back half nicely. "Turn over." She did a nice job scrbbing my rock hard cock. Somehow it does seem to respond to the presence of youth and beauty, although the older ladies often have good technique to compensate.
Back to the room I lay face down on the bed. She did a bit of scrabbling at my back with her hands. I got the impression she was rather new at the biz. Again, made up for by her other qualities. I know some of you out there would just love to show her the ropes. She asked if I had been there before. No. Seemed a bit nervous about that. What do you do? I told her. Are you married? No. What do I want to do? Everything. At which point I presented her with a hundred dollar bill. Oddly, instead of me lying down face up, she got on the massage table. I stroked her nice young flesh. Nothing in the world seems better. We exchanged places. Nothing crazy. BJ, some very nice missionary activity. I finished by hand as usual because of my retarded ejaculation condition. She was very attentive throughout and cleaned me off nicely. I even got a little kiss, so I guess she liked me. The mamasan showed me out a side door. I started to go through the wrong door. If any of you monger readers got a slight scare, sorry about that. This place is a little far for me, but is obviously popular as 2 or 3 other guys were there while I was (they were very quiet).
Double Nickle[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the report, Double Nickle. This is Star, well-reported on. I wouldn't call it totally discreet, but that's just my two cents.
DrN
Hey Double Nickel,
I know the place I was actually there for the first time last week it is in a very nice spot. I had a tall thin chick she was great. It is a good place to go just a bit far for me coming up from Westchester County took me about and hour to get too but will go again for sure if I am in the area. It is a good place to go too for sure I highly recommend it.
[QUOTE=Doctornoct]Thanks for the report, Double Nickle. This is Star, well-reported on. I wouldn't call it totally discreet, but that's just my two cents.
DrN[/QUOTE]
He forgot to mention the tattoo parlor upstairs.
Twice Five: everybody knows about this place already. You just gave it the kiss of death with its own thread. You performed the same service for NHK.
The working girls are loving you for it.
Anybody who reads this board knows about Star, but I have to ask myself why a "senior" member has to consistently start a new thread for a massage parlor, only to have it shut down shortly thereafter. Use your freakin common sense.
[QUOTE=Jolly Rocks]Anybody who reads this board knows about Star, but I have to ask myself why a "senior" member has to consistently start a new thread for a massage parlor, only to have it shut down shortly thereafter. Use your freakin common sense.[/QUOTE]
Maybe he is Officer Double Nickel? Badge number 55?
Just kidding...
[QUOTE=Jolly Rocks]Anybody who reads this board knows about Star, but I have to ask myself why a "senior" member has to consistently start a new thread for a massage parlor, only to have it shut down shortly thereafter. Use your freakin common sense.[/QUOTE]
I totally agree with you JR. It's not as if the place doesn't get enough attention in the General Thread. It accounts for more than half of the posts in that section already. Considering that the place also has more LE presence than any other MP in recent memory due to it's location, this new thread makes absolutely no sense to me.
That's my two cents.
[QUOTE=Sarang Haeyo]
Twice Five: everybody knows about this place already. You just gave it the kiss of death with its own thread. You performed the same service for NHK.
The working girls are loving you for it.[/QUOTE]
Sarang is so right. Why would you red flag this place?
Not wanting to start a flame war regarding freedom of speech, etc. but is there a way to delete a thread from the site?
Leaving some marker smoke billowing by Dunkin' for all to take notice. Countdown till raid???? 10,9,8..
Many of the senior members have given out more info on theses boards than we should have. Myself included. If you think Leo is unaware of this site keep fooling yourself. Bye Bye NHK and I have my suspisions about that too!!! For awhile now all my new intel has been shared with trusted Seniors by PM only. Unfortunatley Leo has put our hobby on the top of their "to do" list. So thats the way it is. For now anyway.
I for one would like to defend Double Nickle, you guys are being too rough on him. Yes, maybe his post was a little too detailed, but in any case, he didn't identify the mp by name, someone else did.
Double Nickle has posted a lot of useful info on MPs here on this forum, and has shared some useful info with me via a PM.
As Jackson himself has pointed out several times, LE is not stupid, they are well aware of what happens at all of the MPs, and a few detailed posts on this forum will not cause them to shut a place down.
NHK was probably closed down as a result of being too obvious and drawing too much attention to itself, not a surprise considering its downtown location. The shutdown would have occurred even if NHK had never been discussed here on this forum.
Maybe Double Nickle should write a bit less info next time (I myself post fewer details now than I used to a few years ago), but I for one hope that he keeps posting.
NHK had its own thread: busted.
Star has its own thread:???????
The female Korean mindset is rubbing off on me.
55: Please give all the AMPs on RT5 in Meriden and Wallingford the same courtesy. I'm going broke.
[QUOTE=Sarang Haeyo]55: Please give all the AMPs on RT5 in Meriden and Wallingford the same courtesy. I'm going broke.[/QUOTE]DITTO and I am getting writer's cramp to top it all off!
Not that long ago, as part of a 'bring your kids to work ' event at work, we had an FBI agent give a presentation for the kids on the dangers of the Internet. Specifically predators. What impressed me about the presenter was that he was very young and extremely savvy about the internet and he had a lot of time (this is all he did. All day, all week): search tools, social networking. Specialized tools that connected the dots for him.
My point is: give double nickel a break. We should all work under the assumption that as soon as you post anything about an establishment on the internet, you just shared the information with LE. Wether the information is in its own forum or part of a general discussion about SWs is of little consequence.
Later,
Vegas
Was passing through recently and had an opportunity to visit Star. Was there many months ago and had a positive (but odd) time. This time was purely positive. Called ahead requesting Kelly. A bit crowded - had to disrobe for the TS in the sauna, as there was no room available (this was last thursday). Had a very nice session with Kelly in the room with the beach and palm tree wallpaper (or mural?)- we tried to incorporate that fantasy vibe into the massage, while it outside it was cold and damp. Great attitude, the session never felt rushed despite the full house.
Anything is possible after the Wallingford fiasco....have called for three days straight with no answer......does not sound good. if you know different, let me know
Thnx
I went by on the job yesterday. All looked o. K. The "open" sign was on. No, LOL, I didn't go in hehe. Nice way to spend a half hour on lunch instead of eating LOL
[QUOTE=Phantom572]Do you work for madison pd, or NH pd? Sounds like LE has more fun than we do these days.[/QUOTE]No! I drive auto parts! :)
Hi,
I have been onthe board as as a voyer for a long time and enjoy the post, s. Thought it was time for my own post. I was out driving during the last big storm we had a few weeks ago and thought I would try best. But when I got there the place was empty. Even though I called first and was told they were open till 11pm. So I ended up at star Nice Girl I think her name was May. Anyhow nice time many positions daty ect. Very good massage very complete and went well over the 1 hour mark.
First time posting out here and have to say that all of you here and in other places in the country have been great in helping me make decisions and stay clear of trouble. Having said that, I usually travel a few times a year for business and like to enjoy when I travel. But this year travel has been cut down to one trip and so I'm in need. It sucks that the AMP scene has been shredded in CT, leaving very few choices. So I was hoping people could give me a comparison of Star vs. Best. From what I have read it seems like Star might be the better choice in regards to looks and service. But want to make sure of that and to make sure that the rubdown is still. 6 for the hour with a 5 Jackson tip for the full work up. Any advice would be great.
[QUOTE=CTScotty]From what I have read it seems like Star might be the better choice..........the rubdown is still. 6 for the hour with a 5 Jackson tip for the full work up.[/QUOTE]
Go with your instincts.
Stopped by Star on Friday afternoon, don't remember her name, had a couple of tats, one btwn her tits and one on the lower back. Spoke pretty good english, said she was from Hawai. Table shower was just ok, didn't scrub the backside as well as they normally do though it was already quite clean. Massage was decent, asked what I wanted, gave her the additional cnote asked for more but tolde her it was all I had. Cbj, cg, mish, than I flipped her over so she was flat on her stomach and pounded it from behind. Overall not bad, not great, average. Will have to ask for the spinner next time and give her a whirl.
Hey guys,
I've been ghosting these forums for a while, reading your reports and I've been tempted to stop by Star for a while. I've never done the AMP thing before, mainly out of nerves and uncertainty, though after reading all your posts, I at least know what to expect/what's expected.
Here's the issue though.
In a week and a half or so I'm moving out of CT for good, so time is something of a factor here. I've been debating treating myself before I go but I'm a bit unsure.
My question is, is it really worth the 1. 6? Am I going to feel I got my money's worth? Is the hour gonna pass before I realize it, leaving me feeling a bit jipped?
Kind of an odd question, I know. Just didn't want my first AMP (and last chance for Star) to be a disappointment.
[QUOTE=Umbra]Hey guys,
I've been ghosting these forums for a while, reading your reports and I've been tempted to stop by Star for a while. I've never done the AMP thing before, mainly out of nerves and uncertainty, though after reading all your posts, I at least know what to expect/what's expected.
Here's the issue though.
In a week and a half or so I'm moving out of CT for good, so time is something of a factor here. I've been debating treating myself before I go but I'm a bit unsure.
My question is, is it really worth the 1. 6? Am I going to feel I got my money's worth? Is the hour gonna pass before I realize it, leaving me feeling a bit jipped?
Kind of an odd question, I know. Just didn't want my first AMP (and last chance for Star) to be a disappointment.[/QUOTE]What a fucking production!
Don't bother going to an AMP. You're already thinking WAY too much.
How the fuck do we know how you're going to feel? My own experience tells me that after 12 years and almost $50K spent; it was worth every fucking penny.
That said, every time I tried going to Star, I was turned away at the door. I have a feeling they always thought I was a cop. You know what I'm trying to say here?
[QUOTE=Umbra]My question is, is it really worth the 1. 6? Am I going to feel I got my money's worth? Is the hour gonna pass before I realize it, leaving me feeling a bit jipped?
Kind of an odd question, I know. Just didn't want my first AMP (and last chance for Star) to be a disappointment.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes it is worth it.....sometimes it is not. What I can say is that I've had many more great experiences than poor experiences.
Most importantly.....always have fun while you're there!!! I've had great experiences with ladies who have received poor reviews on here. For the most part....the experience is what you make of it, but some of the gals are duds.
If you want to know anything further, just do some research in the threads of the location(s) that you are interested in.
Just do it!!! Then let us know how it was.
BTW There are plenty of reports that pretty much say why am I not there already.
Check the General reports under New Haven too.
[QUOTE=Umbra]Hey guys,
I've been ghosting these forums for a while, reading your reports and I've been tempted to stop by Star for a while. I've never done the AMP thing before, mainly out of nerves and uncertainty, though after reading all your posts, I at least know what to expect/what's expected.
Here's the issue though.
In a week and a half or so I'm moving out of CT for good, so time is something of a factor here. I've been debating treating myself before I go but I'm a bit unsure.[/QUOTE]
How many years did it take for you to decide to move?
[QUOTE]My question is, is it really worth the 1. 6? Am I going to feel I got my money's worth? Is the hour gonna pass before I realize it, leaving me feeling a bit jipped?
[/QUOTE]
Will it really be worth the cost of moving? Are you going to get your money's worth? Are the years going to pass before you realize it, leaving you feeling a bit jipped (sic)?
[QUOTE]Kind of an odd question, I know. Just didn't want my first AMP (and last chance for Star) to be a disappointment.[/QUOTE]
Tell you what, forget moving....after all, it just may be a disappointment.
[QUOTE=Spoon Man]If you want to know anything further, just do some research in the threads of the location(s) that you are interested in.[/QUOTE]
I doubt he has enough time - between hemming and hawing and over intellectualizing, his last week in CT is going to be over and he'll be off to Buttfuck Montana still an AMP virgin.
.
Having that urge we all get from time to time, or in Steel's case, every 5 minutes, I decided I needed some relief, so hemmin and hawin, I called a couple of oinkers on CL, but no reply, so I debated going to our best place in Meriden. A little leary, I drove by, saw 2 cars in the lot and figuring they probably only had 2 or 3 ladies working, I decided to pass and what the hell, it's only another 20 minutes to New Haven. Good choice.
I do remember one report of a guy getting mugged outside one time, so I backed into a spot, making a quick getaway possible. 2 other vehicles in the lot, rang the bell, mamasan lets me in, never saw her before, asks if I've been there, yea, yea, many times, yada yada yada. Had to use the bathroom, looks brand new, new tile on the floor and walls, new vanity, really clean. The rest of the place is also very clean, nicely decorated, makes you feel at home, unlike Best, which really needs an overhaul. I hate to even step on that carpeting with my bare feet.
Introduces me to Sonia, WOW, about 5' 5" and with the 5 inch spikes, she towered over little ole me. She looks in her 30's, which in reality probably means she's 40, but she looks great. Great boob job too, you can hardly tell unless you squeeze and feel the implants way under the skin. Now, I'm not saying that the asians have any kind of secret skin treatments, but this chick's skin actually felt like silk and not a blemish anywhere to be found, without tan lines. Got undressed while she was in the room, she giggled at Mr. Happy, copped a feel, "look at you!!", while I grabbed her ass, and I guess that was the cop check to make sure everything was ok.
"You want shower?", Yep, "You want sauna?", Yep, "You want everything?", Oh Yea!!
Sauna first, then shower, a little chilly, then back into sauna to warm up, off to room, asked if I wanted oil massage, I opted for dry, she placed my towel, then a hot towel on top of that, on my back and proceeded to give a great massage, not too hard, not too soft and actually got lots of the kinks out. No rush, must have been a slow night.
"Ok, roll ovah", I sat up on the edge of the table instead, gave her a hug and told her to lie down. If I like the girl, I try to make them feel comfortable by giving them some attention before just slam bam thank you ma'm. And so I started working her over good, from the neck down, unbelievable nipples, coulda been the model for playtex nurser, about 1 1/2 inches long and real tasty. When I got to the DATY, I could have done that all night. Super clean, shaved, not even a hint of odor anywhere. I even did a visual check to make sure nothing was growin. Damn, she was nice. I must have stayed there for 20 minutes, and when I came up for air a couple of times and asked if she wanted more, she was like, you fucking kidding me, get back down there and keep going!! LOL
Without the boring details, we finished off in several positions, she NEVER complained once about anything. I get so sick of the old, " you too long, you on top, it hurt, come on baby, you cum now, blah blah blah." And she never mentioned the money, til I was getting dressed and she was standing right in front of me, I grinned and said, what, you waiting for something? She just smiled and said, yea, I waiting, so I kept teasing, what you waiting for? as I kept buttoning my shirt. I finally handed over the 5 jacksons and she seemed genuinely thrilled.
Gave each other a hug and a kiss and turned me over to the mamasan who led me to the side door. I made sure I checked out the lot real good, rushed to my car, got in and locked the doors. As I started up, I noticed the mamasan was still watching out the window to make sure I got in my car allright, which made me feel even better that they are watching out for their customers.
If I had the money, I'd visit this place once a week, but as it is, I have to use this as a special treat. I'm glad I made the right choice this time. Total time there was well over an hour, no rush, and Sonia was a real sweetheart. Too bad these girls don't stay in any one place too long. I have learned that the more I treat these women with consideration and respect, the more accomodating they usually become. Happy Hunting. JR
[QUOTE=Jolly Rocks]Having that urge we all get from time to time, or in Steel's case, every 5 minutes, I decided I needed some relief, so hemmin and hawin, I called a couple of oinkers on CL, but no reply, so I debated going to our best place in Meriden. A little leary, I drove by, saw 2 cars in the lot and figuring they probably only had 2 or 3 ladies working, I decided to pass and what the hell, it's only another 20 minutes to New Haven. JR[/QUOTE]Shorted his qoute so as not to bore you.
During this same time frame.While this happened.
UMBRA.
Rotated Jollys tires.Changed his oil.
Cleaned and vacummed his interior.Washed his windows.Inside and out.
Did a complete diagnostic test on his engine.Not sure what to do he washed the exterior of the car.
Then drove away.Got the car dirty.
Came back. Waited 10 minutes and repeated the entire process.
Then moved away.
[QUOTE=Jolly Rocks]Having that urge we all get from time to time, or in Steel's case, every 5 minutes, I decided I needed some relief, so hemmin and hawin, I called a couple of oinkers on CL, but no reply, so I debated going to our best place in Meriden. A little leary, I drove by, saw 2 cars in the lot and figuring they probably only had 2 or 3 ladies working, I decided to pass and what the hell, it's only another 20 minutes to New Haven. Good choice.
I. Damn, she was nice. I must have stayed there for 20 minutes, and when I came up for air a couple of times and asked if she wanted more, she was like, you fucking kidding me, get back down there and keep going!! LOL
Without the boring details, we finished off in several positions, she NEVER complained once about anything. I get so sick of the old, " you too long, you on top, it hurt, come on baby, you cum now, blah blah blah." And she never mentioned the money, til I was getting dressed and she was standing right in front of me, I grinned and said, what, you waiting for something? She just smiled and said, yea, I waiting, so I kept teasing, what you waiting for? as I kept buttoning my shirt. I finally handed over the 5 jacksons and she seemed genuinely thrilled.
Umbra here is your clue.... you there yet?
The last couple times I went to the Star have definitely been worth the buck sixty. And I can't remember the last time I walked out of there in less than an hour.
I saw Nari, who was a pretty girl in a kinda generic sort of way. Tight body, well done fake boobs, big but proportionate to her size. Her service was good, maybe a bit on the mechanical side. The girl in the next room was giving the obvious fake moan show, which we were both crackin' up about and that really loosened up the mood.
Then there was Micky. Not the youngest or most beautiful girl at the Star I guess, but still very cute. Really nice curvaceous body (soft in all the right places) with another decent boob job. She was a really, really sweet girl. Lotsa fun; great GFE. And her lips are so big and soft it felt like what I imagine kissing Angelina Jolie must be like!
I thought her name was Nicki, but it certainly was the same girl you have described.
I will add two thoughts about her. Table shower was so-so. Massage was really pretty good. In my case she saved the massage for last. One of the better visits I've had.
[QUOTE=Olde Salt]I thought her name was Nicki, but it certainly was the same girl you have described.[/QUOTE]
Either, or...you say tonato, I say tomato! She's definitely an heirloom strain.
For those of you who actually replied, thanks. It's appreciated. Nice to know not everybody out there feels so insecure as to be an egotistical jerk and actually use these forums for something other than stroking their own egos.
For those of you who decided to be assholes, thanks. It's appreciated. Nice to know that I still have a reason to not brake at intersections. I may get lucky and it'll be you crossing the street.
[QUOTE=Legend Man]
Umbra here is your clue.... you there yet?[/QUOTE]Heh - now see, after a post like THAT, it definately sounds like an awesome time. Need to make sure she's available when I go. Sounds like a five star recommendation if I ever heard one.
I'm low-volume. Just check my posts. I also could have done better tonight, so I can't blame this all on the place/mama/girl. To be fair, my past experiences here were fine. It has been a while for me, though. However:
A place in the New Haven area, rumored to be closed recently, is open. No answer on the phone, but the light was on. After a coffee at the local joint, I parked on a side street and ducked down the alleyway. Mama introduced me to Julia, standard entry fee. Probably 25-35, nice bolt-ons. I said, no sauna tonight which caused a frown. Shower: not bad, nothing to write about. Clean where it counts. Back to the room. Obviously a busy night: plenty of bell ringing, and almost ran into one of you near the sauna. You probably saw me, I wouldn't have been able to see you. Not good.
Massage: not great. And she wore her robe. Conversation attempts failed, finally just made sure I left things appropriately on the side table, which she noticed. She left, returning with a hot towel. Put it on my back, and went back to work. That was an improvement on the first part of the massage, but still not what I was after.
The fizzle: finally, a disrobe, very brief weak attempt at 'sensual teasing' with the bolt-ons accompanied by fake moans. Hat on, a minute of attention, then I heard: Julia, Julia, Julia urgently from Mama. She pretended to ignore it, but quickly got up and hopped on and started jumping up and down. I figured it was time to split, so I let it fly. 'Oh, so quick' she noted. Yeah, it was so good I wanted to stay longer but... NOT. Quick cleanup and she ran out. Elapsed time: 30-40 minutes, tops.
Dressed and was quickly ushered out. Mama asked, good massage? Yeah, sure, bye.
Will not repeat. Should have complained, but wanted to make a safe getaway and wasn't in the mood. The girl wasn't happy, and was under pressure. I have never once gotten that vibe before. I think that's it for me, guys. Be safe.
[QUOTE=Doctornoct]The girl wasn't happy, and was under pressure. I have never once gotten that vibe before. I think that's it for me, guys. Be safe.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry to hear that Doc; I'm pretty sure it was one of your reports that got me to give them another go after some initial so-so experiences. I haven't gotten that vibe there either, at least post-Waterbury, and I've been there during periods that the bell was ringing constantly. Although now that I'm thinking about it there is a fairly new mamasan, right?
Still, give yourself a couple weeks to let it settle before you make any hasty decisions. We'll see if this is the new trend or an isolated incident. I really hope it was the latter. I was really getting to like that place.