"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=SbabyBlog;1428338]I hate to be blunt in pointing this out, but the sugar world isn't for the cheep guy.[/QUOTE]It seems like we have gone intellectual up in here. What happened to the wild and crazy stories of tearing the pussy up?

I know this has been debated before and will be continued to be until the end of time. The sugar world is simply a marketing pitch. An arms length review of the matter shows it to be simply another transactional sexual relationship.

I saw an interview with a sugar daddy and he said it best. 'It is only a matter of determining how long the arrangement has to be before society sanctions it. Make an arrangement for an hour (bad). Make an arrangement for a lifetime (good). '

One baby's 'cheap' is another baby's economic lifeline. Let's take a car for example: You can buy Caddie or a Chevy. Both are going to get your where you need to go. You can also buy a McLaren MP4-12c. Now you are in an entirely different league. At that point you are buying more than just a car. It is an engineering work of art. If I had the money, I'd pay the 229K they want for it.

If you are going to define the sugar world by the price tag you put on the 'party favors' then I think it does a disservice to the rest of us that are not 1%ers. Now I am not one to hate on those SD's that can roll large and have fat pockets. And the SB's that are bringing the 'party favors' with the Tiffany label should make their SD's pay up for sure. But please show me another area of economic endeavor where you pay an amateur more than a professional.

So maybe I don't get it. But until I do I'm going to stay just under the surface and keep patrolling in shallow waters. I'll leave the deep water patrols to the big boomers out there. The Cmdr knows his limitations.

SubCmdr Out

I came from the escort world. If you want a primer on not getting caught peruse some threads on those boards. I was always careful, but not paranoid. I had a separate Yahoo email for my extracurricular activities. I was fortunate that my business is using computers, so I always had my own, my wife had her own, never the twain met. Even so I religiously signed out of my Yahoo mail. With the escorts all communications happened using the Yahoo account or phone at my initiation. I also was lucky that I'm self employed so my activities happened during the day while my wife was at work, plus my business finances were separate from the household finances. There really wasn't much chance of getting caught. Most guys also have separate "hobby" phones to protect their number, etc. That always seemed more dangerous. What if you wife finds out you have a secret phone?

Until the SB I really didn't text much at all. With her it started only text me between 9am & 5pm. Once communications became an issue I said text anytime and set my phone to just show the number, not the message and kept it on vibrate. It was new technology that got me. I bought an iPad. During December wife and I were traveling with just the iPad. One morning I thought I'd signed out of my Yahoo mail and I hadn't. Now SB and I really didn't email at all, BUT, stupid thing #1 I never deleted all of my previous escort related emails. My wife found those. That of course led her to my phone (which wasn't locked) and stupid thing #2, I never deleted my SB text stream. That was it. On some level I think I probably wanted to be caught.

To Hernando's point, I wouldn't have been seeing escorts or starting a SB relationship if things were great at home. Here's one thing, the escort thing was easy to manage: Get the urge, make the appointment, do the deed, move on. The SB relationship vastly overcomplicated things. With the escorts it was during the day, during the week. Lies of omission. With the SB it got to the point where I was actively having night and weekend "meetings" to get away. Active lies, plus I was falling in love with my SB.

I can remember after things blew up with my ex her saying "You seem relieved that it's out in the open." She was sooo right! As to my looking for an SB relationship rather than RLGF, two reasons. Shallow reason, I'm now used to spending time with a hot 23 yr old woman. I'm not that ugly or out of shape, and I really am a really nice guy, but still would have no chance of landing that type of gal in RL. At least not as efficiently as using the SD sites. The serious reason, I've deeply hurt a very decent, wonderful woman. My ex has been nothing but exceptionally fair during the entire divorce. I've also had my heart broken by my SB. She's still the first thing I think of every morning and last thing I think of every night. I'm not in a position emotionally to even attempt a RL relationship. I'm not sure I ever will be. I've come to the conclusion I just may not be cut out for it. So, for now the SB thing seems to be the way to go.

Enough said for now. Thanks for listening!

Atldrummer

[QUOTE=Atldrummer; 1428703]Enough said for now. Thanks for listening!

Atldrummer[/QUOTE]Thanks for the honest account of what went wrong AtlDrummer. I saw a lot of similarities between to two of us and know I am playing with fire in my current situation. Maybe I am in that "wanting to get caught" mode myself. My wife and I usually use totally separate computer equipment, but the smart phone technology these days gets kind of scary. I have my phone on vibrate all the time when at home, but eventually I need to lay it down if only for a few minutes. She could easily pick it up and see the txt message up on the screen. I have come back to the phone more than once recently to see suggestive messages clearly on the screen, even in lock down mode. I use google message service and haven't found a way to set it so only the number shows up instead of the whole txt.

I am real careful with my email account though. It would not be good if my wife ever saw some of the email history in that account.

It does sound to me like you have the right idea about continuing to play in the SB world rather than a real GF, at least for now.

Again, thanks for the response. It is always helpful to learn from others, and I do see several things I need to change immediately after reading your response.

Alias

AltDrummer

THanks for the heartfelt explanation of your situation. I too can identify with your circumstances and find myself in the same boat without the discovery drama so far. I am sorry for opening my wife up to this potential life changing experience but a SB does change the playing field tremendously. Escorts are certainly NSA to the max. SBs are not regardless of how you manage it. It is difficult to see someone regularly without developing feelings. I know some of us can stick to their guns in keeping SBs NSA but it is sure hard, and it depends on the quality of SB as well. If you have someone who is "your kind of girl" and offers more than raw sex then you can be vulnerable. I've had prior SBs who I would not be seen with in public on a bet but provided sexual services in a satisfying way.

It looks like a lot of us are in that same boat, Alias and Scott to name two others.

SubCmdr, I agree that everyone has their "number". There are several guys here who have had success with staggeringly low donations which have been well below the $1000 mark. So keep at it if your current patrol is successful. Nando

To add to some of the previous posts about amounts, when we started I was giving my SB $900 a month as allowance. After a few months I upped it to $1200. This was for 4-6 meetings a month. Towards the end it was pretty much 2-3 times a week (although I did travel a lot). The strange thing was that at some point the sex / social time kind of flipped from lots of sex, a little social to more social not as much sex. To be honest I didn't really care, I just enjoyed spending time with her. I don't really think you're going to find quality for under $1k a month and I think I was very fortunate to find what I did for that amount.

Drummer

Drum,

Thank you for sharing your painful story. It is indeed, as has been said, a lesson to us all, and I too saw myself in a number of your details. Several months back I put myself on voluntary lock-down because my behavior was getting way out of control, and I also questioned whether I secretly wanted to get caught. After a month or so of no babies whatsoever, I returned to the game in a much better place, head-wise.

Still, your comment about getting tripped up by technology is an apt one. Although I keep a dedicated sugar phone, the "bat phone" as I call it, I still need to keep track of it and remember to put it back in its hiding place when not in use. The fact that it is not always accessible, and thus I can not always answer texts or calls when they come in, has been the source of the only fights I have had with my ATF, but I still think that safety trumps accessibility.

As for emails, I have a separate email account expressly for baby communications, but again there is always the danger of leaving the browser open. If married, there really is no way to pursue this engaging pastime without assuming a certain amount of risk. I'm sorry things happened for you the way they did, but want to say again how much I appreciate your sharing this with us.

I am going to pray to the god of Sugar Babies that she send you someone fantastic who will rock your world and make your toes curl, my brother.

Peace,

Scott

Friends,

I am scheduled for a lesson tomorrow with Polo, and I am very excited to say the least. It has been almost two weeks, I think, since I last saw all her freckles, and I feel I need to count them carefully tomorrow to make sure they are all still there.

She has promised me something interesting again, but will not tell me what it is. I am guessing it will not be additional spanking lessons, as I feel I have a handle on that, so perhaps it is something new for me to enjoy? I am daydreaming about her blue eyes and thick red hair, as is Scottie.

In any event, my enthusiasm is somewhat tempered by the fact that she only has a little under two hours to devote to the Pleasure Dome. Some nonsense about her kids and their school. Whatever! (Just kidding here, Mandy)

I will report back if modesty allows.

Scott

All this talk of hiding our activities from the warden has refreshed a question I've long had about this: how does one hide the expenditures?

I've been divorced for several years, but I did the escort thing while I was married. My ex was the money manager in the family, and I constantly scrimped and saved and squirreled away my pocket money to afford the occasional playdate without it showing up in the family finances. Some of you, like Atldrummer, can hide the expense in your business or other ways, but there seems to always be the threat that no matter how well you isolate it, come a nasty divorce battle the ex-to-be has the lawyer discover all that money and fight for it. And while I know some wives are mostly oblivious to the finances, even those women seem to have a sense for when the family cash flow changes. And the sense I get from the posts here is that most guys seem to spend enough on their SB pursuits to make a visible ding in the cashflow unless careful steps are taken.

I'd love to hear from the other members about their ideas on the subject and their techniques for keeping the money issues from the warden.

Thanks!

[QUOTE=SbabyBlog; 1428338]Sorry, my writing late in the evening after working all day meant I wasn't able to articulate better what I meant there. Yes, in your short term CPO an SB will always be less expensive. But unless you're willing to get into the 1k mark, you'll not find that consistent, no-drama, ATF type which most of you seem to want. If you can't afford that, then you would be better off with an escort once or twice a month because it's certainly much less time consuming to find one of them vs. The e-mail, m&g process, that occurs just to get a baby one time. If you can afford that, then you should be able to reasonably expect that you will eventually find a decent baby that you'll form a longer relationship with.

I hate to be blunt in pointing this out, but the sugar world isn't for the cheep guy. While I agree the girls out there requesting condos, exorbitant allowances and such have a way overinflated ego which should give you more reason to run than what it is that she's requesting, I think the guys "negotiating to death and low & balling" a girl are giving the guys in the sugar world a negative perception.

As always, it's just one babies perspective though.

Mandy[/QUOTE]Not to come off like Mr. Spock, but you are taking a line of reasoning that is totally illogical. Specifically, you are trying to argue from the specific (your own case) to the general (SB's in general) , which never works. Would it not be better to acknowledge that each SB and SD is an individual, and that their requirements are unique? So what can be reasoned and / or assumed? Are the odds that a former model will become a SB in return for having the occasional bill paid for her low? Of course, but that's not in question. That said, there are plenty of very attractive young women who would probably be more than willing to be 'extra friendly' with a man in return for him getting her out from under a looming payment problem. If the two can formalise such a relationship, then they've gotten to the SD / SB stage, haven't they? So at the end of the day, each SB is going to have her own set of requirements for what she wants, and what she's willing to put into such a 'relationship. At the same time, every SD is going to have their own list of what they'd like and what they're willing to commit financially to such a relationship. Places is that not a more logical conclusion to be reached from the facts at hand?

There certainly has been a lot of excellent discussion on various topics, and I hope it continues. On the money front, I'm afraid I don't have a lot to offer. I'm in the lucky position of having a spouse who takes little interest in the specifics of the family finances. As long as I keep us in the black each month, she doesn't seem to care. Still, the observation is true that even an uninterested spouse seems to sense when cash flows change. I've had to subtly alter my behavior from time to time to avoid establishing noticeable patterns re: cash withdraws. And I try to avoid credit card use for sugar-related activities for the obvious reason that a credit card leaves more of a paper trail. In the end, though, any competent accountant could figure out what's going on even in a cash-only world. I understand that risk and don't have easy answers to minimize it except to say that extreme caution and attention to detail is key. As we've learned in recent posts, we tend to trip up when we get too comfortable and / or let down our guard.

In other news, but not to brag, I am happy to report that my ATF has returned from vacation, and we had a spirited, if shorter than normal, evening together yesterday. In return for my ability to "help her out a little" recently by advancing some funds (something I would NEVER have done except for the fact we've known each other a year now and I really do trust her) , she has planned a special night for us next week. I'm leaving work early, we're getting a room at a nice place on the river, and there'll be dinner, drinks, and plenty of our favorite activities. All I'm responsible for is making the reservations and paying for the accommodations. I hope I haven't jinxed it, but I am already bursting with excitement.

Finally, on other fronts, I continue to develop additional promising leads. I have no intent to replace my favorite, but I expect she'll be moving out of state by the end of the year. I've received some nice unsolicited contacts from SA and hope to meet them soon. The biggest problem is finding the time. I say this to reinforce the idea that there really are plenty of fish in the sea; it just takes some work to find the right one.

Have a nice weekend, everyone. I'm off to Chicago for a little R&R.

Regards,

Joe

Cantwin, that is one of the salient questions we all have to deal with. (at least the married ones) I own my business and while the W manages the home account, that sum never changes. I bleed funds from the business to finance my activities. Ironically, my office mgr who has been with me for a long time is questioning my expenses and I think she suspects what I am doing. While it is her job to do so I have to be careful not to thrust my dalliance in her face either. In the end, the family has less money for extras and savings but the economy has impacted my business and the W understands that.

Drummer, I try to make every visit with my SB a sexual one, but we spend most of our time together doing non sexual things. Frankly, the sex is wonderful but since we have been together for a year things are predictable and not as toe curling. I cherish it because sex is fun period but also because I adore my SB and just plain love being near her. I do not want to step out on her because I don't want to risk hurting her. Sounds like love doesn't it?

Castlerae, Big Tigg has been successful luring girls for ridiculously low amounts. I think it has to do with their experience in the lifestyle and exposure to a generous Daddy. IF you find a naive SB to be who does not know her value, then you set the tone with what you offer her. Once they have tasted the good life then all bets are off. Mandy must be a drop dead gorgeous girl and obviously knows how to treat her SDs well. She moves in circles (blogs, sites) where much discussion is done about worth. There are many attractive girls who do not quite have that star quality.maybe cute but not gorgeaous, shy, lacking self confidence, etc who are happy getting what they can as long as the SD is to their liking. Mandy is correct if you get a gorgeous young girl who is in great demand. My SB falls in that category. I love her to distraction but she is probably not in that modelesque category.

I struggle as well with the sugar. W balances the checkbook so everything is monitored (sort of). In my case I play in a band so that cash, while not enough on it's own, is hidden. I also grab the FSA checks and any other miscellaneous checks but that's sporadic. I have a long habit of withdrawing $100 to have cash so now I make sure I do this every week and then spend very little cash. With SB1 I always "fill her tank" so she gets gas and that looks like any other expenditure. But all this means maybe $500-$700 / month max. Stretching to Mandy's level of $1K month and above just ain't going to happen. I would have to quit. As Joe mentions I have let anyone wanting more than $150 / session walk and that's limited the playing field but no sense in trying to live a lifestyle I can't afford.

Friends,

I spent the cold and rainy morning holed up in the Pleasure Dome with Polo, and it was fantastic as always. I just love hearing those little grunts she makes, and I heard them a lot today.

As promised, she had a new experience for me, and it was interesting to say the least. As she was paying oral attention to Scottie, she pulled out a tube of toothpaste, Crest I believe, and put a liberal shot of it in her mouth and went back to work. It felt extremely, intensely tingly, and brought things to a close in record time. It also made Scottie extremely sensitive, but in a good way, for the rest of the morning, kind of like he had superpowers. Has anyone else experienced / done this before? Is it common knowledge, or did Polo think this up herself? I can't wait for next week!

Does it work on babies as well? I forgot to ask Polo, and if it does, I'm going to add it to my bag of tricks.

Back at work for the rest of the day, with Scottie smelling all clean and minty!

Keep up the good work,

Scott

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1430006]Friends,

I spent the cold and rainy morning holed up in the Pleasure Dome with Polo, and it was fantastic as always. I just love hearing those little grunts she makes, and I heard them a lot today.

As promised, she had a new experience for me, and it was interesting to say the least. As she was paying oral attention to Scottie, she pulled out a tube of toothpaste, Crest I believe, and put a liberal shot of it in her mouth and went back to work. It felt extremely, intensely tingly, and brought things to a close in record time. It also made Scottie extremely sensitive, but in a good way, for the rest of the morning, kind of like he had superpowers. Has anyone else experienced / done this before? Is it common knowledge, or did Polo think this up herself? I can't wait for next week!

Does it work on babies as well? I forgot to ask Polo, and if it does, I'm going to add it to my bag of tricks.

Back at work for the rest of the day, with Scottie smelling all clean and minty!

Keep up the good work,

Scott[/QUOTE]I normally prefer Sensodyne but suppose that would be counterproductive in this particular application.

I've heard of various uses for liquors such as creme de menthe but haven't experimented in this area. I will say that the toothpaste idea has the added benefit of plaque reduction, which, of course, alcohol lacks. Healthy gums are sexy gums, or something like that. Sounds like a win win.

[QUOTE=JoesParty;1430042]. Healthy gums are sexy gums, or something like that. Sounds like a win win.[/QUOTE]I agree. And Polo does, in truth, have outstanding teeth! Maybe this is how she keeps them so white. I'll have to mention it to the hot hygienist that cleans my teeth next time I'm at the dentists and see if she might offer an additional procedure.

What a world!

Scott