Massage Parlor Reports

[QUOTE=PunkedLife;5863905]Is BBFS and possibly cip available with an upcharge? Don't se any record mentioning it.[/QUOTE]At their previous location (MC) and pre pandemic ONE of the girls would do greek. I can't remember the name (previously she went by Blue) and she is no longer there anyway. When I have inquired into it Kiko has firmly told me it is a no-go for all her current girls.

On one occasion, also at the old spot I had a session with a provider named Jenny. I had already done 1 pop and apparently she got carried away and didn't want to go hunting down another cover. She proposed raw-dogging it. Kinda a reversal since I was really hesitant on that. Pulled out for the finish. The next time I visited Kiko's response was a scowling no when I asked about her so I am thinking Kilo found out we was doing BB and gave her the boot.

[QUOTE=SalRoyal;5865242]LEO.

I have seen him before during the daytime. I think he is security.[/QUOTE]Security for MM? Or LEO?

[QUOTE=Magic2016;5865307]Security for MM? Or LEO?[/QUOTE]LEO. Security wouldn't take pics of clients and spook them away.

Thanks for the info. I went to Milk and unfortunately did make Kiko mad. She answered at the window and I asked If I can see the girls before paying up front cause it was my first time. Because this is what I am used to. I am from the west coast and been to spas all over and over there they line up the girls for you or have them show up to your door one by one. They don't get offended if a girl isn't your type and want to leave.

She got an attitude and said that I'm being picky and no one else does that and that they will give me a good girl. When I got to the room she screams at me saying am I not pretty enough for you but all I did was ask to see if there were other girls but somehow that triggered her. A few minutes later she brings in Sophia and she was nice but was not my type so I ask if I can just have Kiko do it, she gets mad and refunds my money and says don't ever come back. Wasn't in the mood anymore after being screamed at anyway.

Guess because they are so busy all the time so they don't need to let people pick their girl. Usually in my experience Chinese spas are happy to let you see the girls first. I think cause the mamasan younger she has an attitude. I saw an old mamasan there too who let someone out through the backdoor the other day.

[QUOTE=FilthyUnicorn;5849915]They used to do lineups but it's been a long time since I've been offered one. Typically they send in the provider to make sure you aren't LE and that you like them. At BO for example they ask if they are good or if you want a different one sometimes. Be careful at MM though, you might make Kiko mad and that's no Bueno. I would suggest searching reviews here as well as in MM example they upload pictures that look similar to the providers.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=RubMapper;5865426]Thanks for the info. I went to Milk and unfortunately did make Kiko mad. She answered at the window and I asked If I can see the girls before paying up front cause it was my first time. Because this is what I am used to. I am from the west coast and been to spas all over and over there they line up the girls for you or have them show up to your door one by one. They don't get offended if a girl isn't your type and want to leave.

She got an attitude and said that I'm being picky and no one else does that and that they will give me a good girl. When I got to the room she screams at me saying am I not pretty enough for you but all I did was ask to see if there were other girls but somehow that triggered her. A few minutes later she brings in Sophia and she was nice but was not my type so I ask if I can just have Kiko do it, she gets mad and refunds my money and says don't ever come back. Wasn't in the mood anymore after being screamed at anyway.

Guess because they are so busy all the time so they don't need to let people pick their girl. Usually in my experience Chinese spas are happy to let you see the girls first. I think cause the mamasan younger she has an attitude. I saw an old mamasan there too who let someone out through the backdoor the other day.[/QUOTE]She won't remember your face. At BO she kicked me out before. Then a year later she was my go to. She's always moody!

[QUOTE=SalRoyal;5865242]LEO.

I have seen him before during the daytime. I think he is security.[/QUOTE]If you're sure it's a Mercedes', then it's prolly not LEO. An Asian LEO in a Mercedes'? Sounds more like Hollywood. I guess there is a Hollywood in Florida but it's hours away.

[QUOTE=RubMapper;5865426]Thanks for the info. I went to Milk and unfortunately did make Kiko mad. She answered at the window and I asked If I can see the girls before paying up front cause it was my first time. Because this is what I am used to. I am from the west coast and been to spas all over and over there they line up the girls for you or have them show up to your door one by one. They don't get offended if a girl isn't your type and want to leave.

She got an attitude and said that I'm being picky and no one else does that and that they will give me a good girl. When I got to the room she screams at me saying am I not pretty enough for you but all I did was ask to see if there were other girls but somehow that triggered her. A few minutes later she brings in Sophia and she was nice but was not my type so I ask if I can just have Kiko do it, she gets mad and refunds my money and says don't ever come back. Wasn't in the mood anymore after being screamed at anyway.

Guess because they are so busy all the time so they don't need to let people pick their girl. Usually in my experience Chinese spas are happy to let you see the girls first. I think cause the mamasan younger she has an attitude. I saw an old mamasan there too who let someone out through the backdoor the other day.[/QUOTE]I used to enjoy going there and stopped last year because Kiko's bitchy attitude is a complete turnoff. I used to want to hook up with her as she was fairly friendly when I started going there as she sure is hot. Greeting with a smile would be a lot cooler than her antics when she greets you. Plenty of other options between UTR, seeking and other therapists.

Is Jenny still at you spa. If not where did she go?

Since last couple of months I'm getting same answer 'she is on vacation'. I'm guessing she is gone.

Yumyum1.

[QUOTE=Hammer67;5865630]Is Jenny still at you spa. If not where did she go?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=YumYum1;5865905]Since last couple of months I'm getting same answer 'she is on vacation'. I'm guessing she is gone.

Yumyum1.[/QUOTE]Yeah, you never know. A few years ago at you there was a Lulu who was awesome as far as looks, body and service and then she went on vacation and unfortunately never returned, so maybe or maybe not.

[QUOTE=PunkedLife;5863905]Is BBFS and possibly cip available with an upcharge? Don't se any record mentioning it.[/QUOTE]Possible at You Massage, but YMMV.

Any recommendations?

[QUOTE=PerfectAss;5859154]Vicky is Awesome![/QUOTE]Is this the ocean star that is located in kissimme?

Went to Jiu Jiu (red awning) for the first time. Don't remember who I got but she was decent enough. HE to finish. Only downside was all the negotiations. Saw Candy on the way out and will probably go in and request her next time.

Tried MM (MilkMassage for the noobs like I was) and had Sofia. I should have requested a lineup but I think I just gave the first name that had been previously reviewed on one of these sites. Forked over the 2 bills and was led to the room to undress. Then led to the TS. On the way there we ran into who I was told was named Lola. She was quite attractive. Currently considering returning to experience that today. Sophia is in her 30's if I had to guess. Average body. I'm not really a titty guy so I didn't really pay that much attention but I believe they were decent man mades if my memory serves me correctly. TS was ok. Can't say if I made her feel some type of way because I was unwilling to kiss her. Yah I can't bring myself to tongue down a girl who TUMAS every guy and I'm guessing cim is a thing. So no I'll pass. Her BBBJ was decent although nothing spectacular. I'm not a BJ guy so unless it's otherworldly I don't really care. Rarely can a girl make me bust orally anyways unless I go a week without busting. Now here's the issue. Colombia seems to have spoiled the fuck out of me. GFE with hot young flacas who most of the time I'm busting in however many times I can bust. I guess to me it's the attraction. As long as I don't know what a girl is doing when she isn't with me and I'm attracted to her and there is chemistry then I don't mind kissing and all the rest of the things that come with the GF experiences. So all in all my dik couldn't even stay hard after she put the condom on and we got to doing the nasty. Nothing on her though as she really did put in some effort. It just wasn't for me. Think I'll stick to the massage and he spots until I go on my next trip to wherever has some hot young GFE girls.

Went to best massage and had Kelly. The massage was pretty subpar. She seemed to only rub my body with the palms of her hands. I'm always used to more talented hands. Tipped 60 for a he. Would say her technique in that was pretty decent although I wasn't able to finish. Guess I was having an off day and only bbfscip would have gotten the job done. Guess I've spoiled myself too much to go back to the regular services. Only attempted otc as I didn't think it would have been worth the extra dough to try and get her naked if that was a possibility. Asked about Cici because I read a previous review and she said that she wasn't there but didn't elaborate on anything more.

I called my soothing touch and was planning on giving them a try before trying Best Massage but the lady kept saying massage only so even though the reviews mentioned that more could be had I wasn't willing to pay 80 for blue balls.

[QUOTE=OrlandoRide;5866455]Is this the ocean star that is located in kissimme?[/QUOTE]Yep, all the way down past mile marker 12 then turn right. It's right there near Walmart. So grab groceries after grabbing a hand full.

I dreamt I went to NDS about a week ago looking for some backdoor action and they told me Ruby was at King, so I headed that way. I went and had an amazing time! It was $$$ for an hour + Greek. It started out with a TS, plenty of tuma and BBBJ, then she started bare sliding. She put the rubber on and sat her ass down on my cock right there in the TS! After the TS fun, we went back to the room. BBBJ, she rode me, missionary anal, more BBBJ, then doggy anal where I finished in the bag. It was an amazing time, before I woke up.

[QUOTE=Magic2016;5865307]Security for MM? Or LEO?[/QUOTE]Could also be counting customers to come up with an average just to make sure upper management is getting their take.

Who are the current island travel specialists at King, New Day and Ocean Star?

They're skimming the skim! Casino.

[QUOTE=SalRoyal;5868454]Could also be counting customers to come up with an average just to make sure upper management is getting their take.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Stealth17;5868598]Who are the current island travel specialists at King, New Day and Ocean Star?[/QUOTE]New Day is Lulu.

[QUOTE=SalRoyal;5865242]LEO.

I have seen him before during the daytime. I think he is security.[/QUOTE]Maybe he's gay and thought you were cute.

Either way I doubt he's LEO. If LEO is doing surveillance for a sting you're not going to know about it let alone get caught red handed like that. They have tiny hi-def cameras they can hide anywhere and ones with like 200 x zoom; yeah if they decide to surveillance you you're not going to know.

Went to Milk, made no special request as they were busy. I drew Sophia, whom I have seen previously. Attractive face, slim waste, small ass and very nice full B or small C tits. Real (?) I don't know, felt like it and I saw no scars, plus very perky nips so real or not they are perfect in my book. Like I said, MM was busy when I arrived but must have cleared out as I spent an extended very, very, enjoyable slippery time in the shower with her. Back in the room she was playful, also fun to talk with. She also gave me a little bit of a massage to make sure I got my full play time. Since I had already seen Sophia a couple of times I was hoping to draw someone else, but just like previously, she was a good time so no regrets.

[QUOTE=NeoMonger;5865278]At their previous location (MC) and pre pandemic ONE of the girls would do greek. I can't remember the name (previously she went by Blue) and she is no longer there anyway. When I have inquired into it Kiko has firmly told me it is a no-go for all her current girls.

On one occasion, also at the old spot I had a session with a provider named Jenny. I had already done 1 pop and apparently she got carried away and didn't want to go hunting down another cover. She proposed raw-dogging it. Kinda a reversal since I was really hesitant on that. Pulled out for the finish. The next time I visited Kiko's response was a scowling no when I asked about her so I am thinking Kilo found out we was doing BB and gave her the boot.[/QUOTE]I always wondered what happened to Jenny. I only saw her once and K9 was wonderful because she was thicker than most girls there. Damn you.

[QUOTE=LTlurker53;5866233]Any recommendations?[/QUOTE]Ocean Star is down 192 and just north on Vineland and about 20 minutes away. It's highly recommended particularly as Vickie has returned.

The are a half dozens or more typical rub and tugs on 192 between US 27 and Downtown Kissimmee.

Late report but visited this place about a month ago saw Carmen. Nice body cool to talk to. I only had 30 mins so skipped massage so cannot comment on those. But everything else was a good time and did not watch the clock which in the past has been an issue. It is expensive but sometimes you just want the non AMP experience.

Mase out!

Hello,

Any good massage place on west of 192. Staying close to it and would be helpful.

[QUOTE=ClMikeBd;5867804]I dreamt I went to NDS about a week ago looking for some backdoor action and they told me Ruby was at King, so I headed that way. I went and had an amazing time! It was $$$ for an hour + Greek. It started out with a TS, plenty of tuma and BBBJ, then she started bare sliding. She put the rubber on and sat her ass down on my cock right there in the TS! After the TS fun, we went back to the room. BBBJ, she rode me, missionary anal, more BBBJ, then doggy anal where I finished in the bag. It was an amazing time, before I woke up.[/QUOTE]Next time I'm in town, I definitely want to see her again. Incredible body and the fact she loves Greek --perfect.

[QUOTE=TungstenHP;5869210]Maybe he's gay and thought you were cute.

Either way I doubt he's LEO. If LEO is doing surveillance for a sting you're not going to know about it let alone get caught red handed like that. They have tiny hi-def cameras they can hide anywhere and ones with like 200 x zoom; yeah if they decide to surveillance you you're not going to know.[/QUOTE]The code enforcement agencies take photos of the places and check licenses. They would not be driving civilian vehicles (like Mercedes' and they are very deliberate. Do their work and then leave as not to disrupt normal business unless there's a health or safety violation imminent.

[QUOTE=NaughtyBoy1;5870735]Hello,

Any good massage place on west of 192. Staying close to it and would be helpful.[/QUOTE]Been to one on the west side once but wasn't worth a review. Older lady, was rushed and not in a good mood. That was a couple of years back so not sure if anything new has opened. East side has plenty of options if you can make it towards that end.

Long, but worth it.

Arrived at PIE airport at 2:30 pm and started my quest for an enjoyable 2 days. Had been hit and miss on my previous "reasons" for visiting. At 3:30 pm I visited Journey and wanted to cross off an under 5'/ under 100 lb prize. I did, but totally disappointed. Her rules left me wanting unlimited fun. And the posts from you fuckers in Orlando made me abandon home base.

So I bail on my paid for hotel room and I'm at MM by 8 pm. Drew Mocha. In Chicago we call your version of what MM and NDS offer "Dongguan" Only had it in a parlor once so here begins my, shall we say, addiction. Mocha delivered a solid 45 min TS / FS / CIM session.

Not having enough I then proceeded to book a hotel in cash to leave no evidence in Orlando. Lmfao. On to NDS at 10:30 pm and I drew Coco. Even better. The girl literally had me stick my arse up and she proceeds to TF me for like 10 straight minutes. TS / FS / CIM for about 45 minutes. Selena comes in after and asks my name and I say "John". I always like to be their "John". She says "oh Big John come back tomorrow" She is really hot so this is quite possible.

Get some rest and I'm back at MM at 9 am sharp and a little raw. But. In for a penny, in for a pound. I draw Sophia. Quirky, freaky, fuckin awesome. I'm 6'4" and she comes up to like above my belly button. She says "pick up". I'm like "eh?" She says "carry" and points out the door. I'm laughing. So I pick her little ass up and carry her to the TS and she's singing the whole way and dropping the towel so I have to bend her over to get it. WTF? Pretty cool and hilarious though. She proceeds to outdo Coco not in TUMA but in all around performance. Took me a bit to get there but it was the finish of a lifetime, shooting in her mouth with her kneeling on the floor. Out in about 45 mins.

So back over to NDS before my drive back. Yeah. I know. Walk in about 11 am and I draw Amanda. She's actually really pretty. Takes me in and says "another girl for $ ?" I know its my last stop so I'm like "uh maybe, depends on who?" 2 minutes later she walks in with fucking Selena! And I hear "Oh Big John you come back!" Fucking jackpot.

Now boys, this is a 1st for me. Never had 2 girls let alone 2 who are this hot. And I'm not sure if I can get to the finish line, but damn it I've come this far. And by all that is great in this world it went fucking spec-spectacular! Those images will be burned in my mind forever. Everything. I mean everything, every which way and every capitalized abbreviation was done simul-fucking-taneously! And the finale of shooting into 2 mouths topped the previous run at MM. 45 glorious minutes that I will never know how I possibly did.

Selena walks out and Amanda sits down next to me and is still kissing on my neck and stroking me and asks "still big want to go again?" I look down at Little John and think "fella, you've served me proud. But I think you've been through enough. " He gave me 5 blasts with 6 different girls in about 19 hours. Not too shabby.

He did have some help. I cheat a little. Ya have to at 41. What works for me is 1/2 a pill helper 45 minutes before and one serving C4 pre-workout 15 minutes before. Took a while to tweak, but works perfectly for me. Minus possible long term side effects of course.

Its my 1st post cause I only found this site 4 months ago before this trip. Been at this a long time and took a lot for my own team. But this life altering experience only happened cause you fucking guys post quality reviews. And know. You are very spoiled. VERY spoiled. I'll leave a separate post of all I have learned in many many years of Chicago, southern Wisconsin, Quad Cities Iowa and Peoria. Will save you a ton of time if you ever visit. Least I could do. Cause after this post I'm out. Told this to myself before I went and I was graced with such luck that I know I'll never top it. Going out on top. And this post is not a brag. Its cause I can tell no one. Just you guys. Big and Little John appreciate Orlando a great deal. Thanks fellas.

I started out heading to MM. I have a two hour drive down I75 and the toll road to get there. It absolutely sucks where I live as STG only has Angus and Charolais in the area that want 300 per hour, so it is well worth the drive down to Otown.

Anyway, heading east on Colonial, I am getting ready to turn in at MM, and watch two cars pull in the lot ahead of me that we're heading west, and the lot is pretty much full on the MM side, and at least half full on the smoke shop side. I don't really want to sit in the closet outside of Kiko's office, so I say f this and continue to head east on Colonial. Pass by Blue Ocean that seems empty. Pass by Semoran BLVD, which brings back some fond memories of MC and really fond memories of the old Golden Gate, which use to be the the bomb.

Next I arrive at King. It's lot is pretty full, but most of the cars are in front of the barber shop. I go in to King, and luck of the draw get Ruby, which I have read good things about from this site. Ruby is a little thicker than the skinny Minny's that Kiki usually get at MM. She actually has an OK ass for an Asian chick. I'd say she is around 5'2 and probably weighs 120, with a decent set of boot on up top. Ruby says the table shower is in use, so we go right to town, including tuma, BBBJ, fiv, fia. Then she throws the cover on and mounts in RCG, after a short while, Ruby say 'you fuck me in Ass? And I say sure. She then sits on the mini me in RCG style for some Greek pounding. Pretty awesome. I don't last long. We then head to shower which is now open, and get all cleaned up. Ruby does her best to wake up mini me for round two but not happening today. That's fine though as I had a great dream to remember the day.

I always go to mm when in o-town. Heading down later today and looking to try King. Is it same 2 bills at the window like mm?

[QUOTE=ChesterCrazy;5871883]I started out heading to MM. I have a two hour drive down I75 and the toll road to get there. It absolutely sucks where I live as STG only has Angus and Charolais in the area that want 300 per hour, so it is well worth the drive down to Otown.

Anyway, heading east on Colonial, I am getting ready to turn in at MM, and watch two cars pull in the lot ahead of me that we're heading west, and the lot is pretty much full on the MM side, and at least half full on the smoke shop side. I don't really want to sit in the closet outside of Kiko's office, so I say f this and continue to head east on Colonial. Pass by Blue Ocean that seems empty. Pass by Semoran BLVD, which brings back some fond memories of MC and really fond memories of the old Golden Gate, which use to be the the bomb.

Next I arrive at King. It's lot is pretty full, but most of the cars are in front of the barber shop. I go in to King, and luck of the draw get Ruby, which I have read good things about from this site. Ruby is a little thicker than the skinny Minny's that Kiki usually get at MM. She actually has an OK ass for an Asian chick. I'd say she is around 5'2 and probably weighs 120, with a decent set of boot on up top. Ruby says the table shower is in use, so we go right to town, including tuma, BBBJ, fiv, fia. Then she throws the cover on and mounts in RCG, after a short while, Ruby say 'you fuck me in Ass? And I say sure. She then sits on the mini me in RCG style for some Greek pounding. Pretty awesome. I don't last long. We then head to shower which is now open, and get all cleaned up. Ruby does her best to wake up mini me for round two but not happening today. That's fine though as I had a great dream to remember the day.[/QUOTE]Angus and Charolais! You must be old enough to remember when we called people those names in grade school. Good for you landing the awesome Ruby! She aims to please.

[QUOTE=TkuCoach;5872090]I always go to mm when in o-town. Heading down later today and looking to try King. Is it same 2 bills at the window like mm?[/QUOTE]King is. 8 to the house and $. 4 tip as far as I know for 1 hr, paid once you go in the room.

Great post.

Your a damn poet if you ask me.

[QUOTE=BigJohn619;5871835]Long, but worth it.

Arrived at PIE airport at 2:30 pm and started my quest for an enjoyable 2 days. Had been hit and miss on my previous "reasons" for visiting. At 3:30 pm I visited Journey and wanted to cross off an under 5'/ under 100 lb prize. I did, but totally disappointed. Her rules left me wanting unlimited fun. And the posts from you fuckers in Orlando made me abandon home base.

So I bail on my paid for hotel room and I'm at MM by 8 pm. Drew Mocha. In Chicago we call your version of what MM and NDS offer "Dongguan" Only had it in a parlor once so here begins my, shall we say, addiction. Mocha delivered a solid 45 min TS / FS / CIM session.

Not having enough I then proceeded to book a hotel in cash to leave no evidence in Orlando. Lmfao. On to NDS at 10:30 pm and I drew Coco. Even better. The girl literally had me stick my arse up and she proceeds to TF me for like 10 straight minutes. TS / FS / CIM for about 45 minutes. Selena comes in after and asks my name and I say "John". I always like to be their "John". She says "oh Big John come back tomorrow" She is really hot so this is quite possible.

Get some rest and I'm back at MM at 9 am sharp and a little raw. But. In for a penny, in for a pound. I draw Sophia. Quirky, freaky, fuckin awesome. I'm 6'4" and she comes up to like above my belly button. She says "pick up". I'm like "eh?" She says "carry" and points out the door. I'm laughing. So I pick her little ass up and carry her to the TS and she's singing the whole way and dropping the towel so I have to bend her over to get it. WTF? Pretty cool and hilarious though. She proceeds to outdo Coco not in TUMA but in all around performance. Took me a bit to get there but it was the finish of a lifetime, shooting in her mouth with her kneeling on the floor. Out in about 45 mins..[/QUOTE]

I had a dream that I had the pleasure of stopping by Milk today. Kiki opened that tiny curtain and promptly asked for the upfront 200 marios. I have been to BO before and it felt very similar in terms of vibe and initial experience. I was lead to a room after the payment and promptly mocha came in wearing a black lace lingerie set, 5 ft 2 and no more than 115-120, long black hair and a great body, looked to be 25-35 but I might be wrong honestly. She asked me if I wanted to have a table shower to which I obliged. That shit was fucking nuts. I undress and she leads me by towel to the shower. We each take our mouth wash and she asks me to lay flat on the table and she let her tongue run wild. Feeling her perfect b-c cups slide up and down my asshole was a new sensation I have to admit. Haven't been rimmed in a while so that was also nice. Amazing BBBJ on the flip and she starts sliding her body with lotion on top of me teasing me as if BBFS was an option. We get cleaned up and head to the room. Almost instantly she is back on her knees and earning every dollar of that donation. After what seemed like a great amount of time she hops on the bed and bends over. Doggy, missionary, cowgirl, doggy again, and I am starting to pre cum with every stroke. I had to fess up and tell her I'm getting close. I tell her I want to cum in her mouth and she hops off and gives me an amazing BBBJ until I can't hold it anymore. Whats amazing is she did not just stop after the release and really stayed on it until there was nothing left. Amazing service and would definitely come back again. Lots of treats inbetween and absolute pampered.

Went to go see Kiki today. Personally, I enjoy Kiki over Amanda. Kiki gets way more into it and has the same body type, but more enthusiasm. I have seen Sophia so many times over the years, just wanted something a bit different. Kiki has a great body with large c cups, decent BBBJ (nobody beats Mocha). There was some police activity at a motel down the road though, not sure what that was about. Will definitely being see Kiki again.

[QUOTE=BigJohn619;5871835]Its my 1st post cause I only found this site 4 months ago before this trip. Been at this a long time and took a lot for my own team. But this life altering experience only happened cause you fucking guys post quality reviews. And know. You are very spoiled. VERY spoiled. I'll leave a separate post of all I have learned in many many years of Chicago, southern Wisconsin, Quad Cities Iowa and Peoria. Will save you a ton of time if you ever visit. Least I could do. Cause after this post I'm out. Told this to myself before I went and I was graced with such luck that I know I'll never top it. Going out on top. And this post is not a brag. Its cause I can tell no one. Just you guys. Big and Little John appreciate Orlando a great deal. Thanks fellas.[/QUOTE]Glad you enjoyed O-Town. The local guys here don't know how good they actually have it (from a visitors perspective). I travel through ORD quite a bit. Would love to get some local intel in your area. I'll PM in a few weeks, when heading up in your direction, again.