"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3737680]I recently had a 21 yr old that looked a lot younger than her age -- most would guess she was about 16-17. It was surprising to me how rarely anyone ever looked twice at us, even with public displays of affection in busy places.

One time she forgot her I.D. card while we were at a restaurant for dinner. After we already placed our food orders, she decided she wanted a daiquiri. When I said I would order for myself and give it to her, we got a couple of looks as some thought I must be ordering for a minor. Only minutes after starting to sip the drink, she started talking out loud about specific sex acts she wanted us to do after dinner, within earshot of everyone around. Now THAT was fun, and definitely got some attention and wide grins from some nearby nosy eavesdroppers. LOL. And she couldn't care less that they heard her. I'm known for "high volume payloads" during orgasm, and she was very into the cum bath experience -- it was new to her and apparently a latent fantasy of hers before she met me. I bet the nearby diners really appreciated hearing about that as they looked down at their salad dressing...[/QUOTE]You can't always trust I'd's many of these girls carry fake ones. They can buy them online. This is why I won't see anyone I cannot 100% assure is over like 20. The law doesn't give a shit if she showed you a fake I'd, or she met you in a bar, or talked about her dorm at college, if she's had sex with five hundred men before you, if she's under age, you are royally screwed. One cannot be too careful in this area. This why for me, I generally only going to the ones in their mid twenties. Many 16-7 year old looks 22 and many 22 year olds look 15-16. I prefer them to have some experience under their belt anyhow. I'm not about exploring any younger woman. Not my cup of tea.

As for the meet and greet and being in public? The looks will generally come from middled age, fat, let themselves go women. And I could CARELESS what they think. The men are always envious and most don't seem to notice. It's become common place for younger women to date older men. And I'm not that old anyhow. LOL Just go about your business and don't give a shit what anyone thinks. Trust me, they all got their own skeletons.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3737785]Don't quote me on the URL, as I understand it is tricky to get right, but something like [URL]predatorsalert.com[/URL]. It consists of photos of guys and their phone #s, and accusations such as 'offers $ for sex'. If you pay them $ you can get your pic taken down. I believe people have gotten texts from the site alerting them to being on it and suggesting they pay. Flat-out extortion. Put yourself in a position where you can ignore this. Some people have evidently been successful getting photos taken down by DMCA requests to their photo host, [URL]imgur.com[/URL]. There are other strategies. Perhaps search these threads with a keyword like predator to see what others have experience. They were SDs in Wisconsin, Georgia, etc. The belief is that fake profiles on SA were used to get people's profile pic, messaging to get the phone #s.[/QUOTE]I don't show my face on my profile picture but I think I will stick with google voice from now on.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;3737807]You can't always trust I'd's many of these girls carry fake ones. They can buy them online. This is why I won't see anyone I cannot 100% assure is over like 20. The law doesn't give a shit if she showed you a fake I'd, or she met you in a bar, or talked about her dorm at college, if she's had sex with five hundred men before you, if she's under age, you are royally screwed. One cannot be too careful in this area. This why for me, I generally only going to the ones in their mid twenties. Many 16-7 year old looks 22 and many 22 year olds look 15-16. I prefer them to have some experience under their belt anyhow. I'm not about exploring any younger woman. Not my cup of tea.

As for the meet and greet and being in public? The looks will generally come from middled age, fat, let themselves go women. And I could CARELESS what they think. The men are always envious and most don't seem to notice. It's become common place for younger women to date older men. And I'm not that old anyhow. LOL Just go about your business and don't give a shit what anyone thinks. Trust me, they all got their own skeletons.[/QUOTE]That particular date wasn't at the M&G, I had already spent a few days with her when that occurred. In her case, I already had her first / middle / last name and confirmed age before the first meet. Once you have some info on her, you can usually find out everything including the age of parents and siblings with a quick search or two.

I normally go for the 18-25 demographic (more for reasons of attitude than looks. I find that any older than that and they are usually clingy or marriage minded. I think awareness of the biological clock kicks in around age 27 and they really start thinking about their future, having kids, etc. And I don't want a future or kids with them).

The other thing I like about the younger ones is they have limited experience with everything, so you have the chance to be their first on a lot of things. They are just easily impressed / wowed, and it's fun to watch their face light up over trivial matters. I always find more been there done that attitude as the age range goes up. Most girls that are sugar baby material become really curious about having a sugar daddy around age 18-22, so I often find the ones that are mid twenties or higher have already been in the bowl for a while.

In terms of fake IDs, I've been fortunate in the sense that I've been able to verify age on most of the younger ones I've met. I do always like to try to remain aware of age of consent in whatever state I'm visiting though.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3728283]I wouldn't be too surprised by that kind of interaction.

1) Dudes who use SA as an escort site are what ruins it for those of us who truly seek an on-going arrangement. Sigh.

2)Sadly bad behavior by a few often dissuades others from posting or sharing. Sigh.

So none of these stories of bad monger behavior surprise me anymore, sadly. Can you imagine dealing with that sort of "attitude" 100-times over on a daily basis like someone here has to? Yousa!

Honor among thieves? Honor among mongers?[/QUOTE]Couldn't agree more with this. The SA experiences I had were fantastic, but also draining. Took to much effort before I learned to identify according to what their needs were, as has been explained here. There are many fellas who are looking for strict transactional meetings. Others who flat out are creepers and scare the girls, because of the twisted sex acts they ask about, right off the bat, before getting to know them, even just a little bit.

So, even though there is all this bad behavior, in my experience it makes it all the more better when you show them you are an alpha male who won't be pushed around, and show the respect and validation a lot of them are craving. Great thread gents.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3728469]One additional downside of treating SA like BP is that it tends to scare away my target demographic. Women who don't think of themselves as escorts get turned off quickly when propositioned for straight up pay for play.

Just like in strip clubs, proposition the right dancer you can get lucky, proposition the wrong dancer get slapped and thrown out by the bouncer.

I wish more guys knew how to navigate the waters and not scare away the newbies. Pros aren't hard to spot!! LOL.[/QUOTE]Mad, I have a contrary opinion. The more gents that treat them badly, the more jaded they become, and the more receptive they are when you treat them with a little kindness, sincerity, and validation. Treat them like hos and that's what you will find. Treat them like women who have some issues that you are there to listen to, and the success rate is much different. It does take a lot more time though, so that's the trade off.

[QUOTE=TwoDirection;3729372]

One thing I've found helpful is to ask her sometime when you're hanging out, once things are established with her, to show you some awful messages she's gotten on SA, or awful profiles. Ask her what she didn't like about each one she shows you. You can improve a lot from seeing the mistakes other guys are making.[/QUOTE]Bingo, well said! Whenever I had them complain about how creepy some gents were, I would casually say - "Oh how creepy could they really be, do tell!" and they would usually spill all the nasty details, once they felt comfortable with you.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3735222]IS it possible to search on LinkedIn or look at profiles anonymously? If I am looking around there for dates or a baby I sure am not interested in letting a SB know my real name, work location, etc, just in case she goes wacko on me. So is there a way to do that and keep the lives separate?
[/QUOTE]Create a separate but credible linked in profile. Takes a little effort, but is feasible.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;3737807]You can't always trust I'd's many of these girls carry fake ones. They can buy them online. This is why I won't see anyone I cannot 100% assure is over like 20. The law doesn't give a shit if she showed you a fake I'd, or she met you in a bar, or talked about her dorm at college, if she's had sex with five hundred men before you, if she's under age, you are royally screwed. One cannot be too careful in this area. This why for me, I generally only going to the ones in their mid twenties. Many 16-7 year old looks 22 and many 22 year olds look 15-16. I prefer them to have some experience under their belt anyhow. I'm not about exploring any younger woman. Not my cup of tea.

As for the meet and greet and being in public? The looks will generally come from middled age, fat, let themselves go women. And I could CARELESS what they think. The men are always envious and most don't seem to notice. It's become common place for younger women to date older men. And I'm not that old anyhow. LOL Just go about your business and don't give a shit what anyone thinks. Trust me, they all got their own skeletons.[/QUOTE]Just to put a little finer point on this, in some jurisdictions even having an electronic conversation w / someone who is not of legal age about a physical interaction could be a crime. I have some phraseology I usually use, like 'You need to assure me you are at least 18, if not I cannot message with you further'. If there is any doubt whatsoever, ask for a selfie w / the driver's license (let her cover up address / last name if she wishes, but require the DOB and photo). I recently did a M&G w / a 19 YO POT who said she couldn't be unfaithful to her baby daddy. OK, move on. Then she texts and asks if I'd be interested in her little sister. Gulp! My bowl brother advised me to run away. It's true, I haven't followed up, b / c she said little sis only wanted to do oral.

It is plausible in some circumstances that the POT / SB could be taken for your daughter, a story I have kept in my hip pocket in case I were to see someone I knew when I was 'out and about'. My patter is that this was a love child from before my marriage, and my SO doesn't know about her, so I'd appreciate their keeping the siting to themselves. Of course, this only works if the girl actually could be mine (race, build, etc.).

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3737785]Don't quote me on the URL, as I understand it is tricky to get right, but something like [URL]predatorsalert.com[/URL]. It consists of photos of guys and their phone #s, and accusations such as 'offers $ for sex'. If you pay them $ you can get your pic taken down. I believe people have gotten texts from the site alerting them to being on it and suggesting they pay. Flat-out extortion. Put yourself in a position where you can ignore this. Some people have evidently been successful getting photos taken down by DMCA requests to their photo host, [URL]imgur.com[/URL]. There are other strategies. Perhaps search these threads with a keyword like predator to see what others have experience. They were SDs in Wisconsin, Georgia, etc. The belief is that fake profiles on SA were used to get people's profile pic, messaging to get the phone #s.[/QUOTE]I remember someone (possibily in another thread) saying they were able to get their pic removed by informing [URL]Imgur.com[/URL] of the extortion attempt and simply asking for removal. They are using [URL]Imgur.com[/URL] to host those images -- most small time crook sites like predatorsalert won't invest heavily in storage of their own content, because it would leave a traceable trail to them, even if in another country they could get extradited to US for federal charges on something like this. It doesn't change the fact the phone number might still be posted, but hopefully most SDs are using burner phones and not giving them the chance to find out real name.

I know this may seem super cautious, but I recall being on one of those predator sites at one point, which had a search function, and was tempted to search for my number. However, it occurred to me that if I were that site, I would take all such inquiries and turn them around. Send texts to the number, saying you are on our site and you need to pay to be taken off. Has this happened to anyone? Does anyone else think the world is this devious?

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3738183]I remember someone (possibily in another thread) saying they were able to get their pic removed by informing [URL]Imgur.com[/URL] of the extortion attempt and simply asking for removal. They are using [URL]Imgur.com[/URL] to host those images -- most small time crook sites like predatorsalert won't invest heavily in storage of their own content, because it would leave a traceable trail to them, even if in another country they could get extradited to US for federal charges on something like this. It doesn't change the fact the phone number might still be posted, but hopefully most SDs are using burner phones and not giving them the chance to find out real name.[/QUOTE]I'm just surprised nobody asked if there was an echo in here. I was scanning posts in a hurry and didn't see that you already covered this, FFA.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3739322]I'm just surprised nobody asked if there was an echo in here. I was scanning posts in a hurry and didn't see that you already covered this, FFA.[/QUOTE]Just checked a site and the photos are hosted my imgur. Shouldn't be a problem getting them removed. But if you google the numbers it comes up toward the top of the search results. F**king asshats. I was emailing with a girl that told me twice she was 19. A day later I get an email saying she's 16 and they were her parents and if I didn't come up with some money they were going to go to the authorities. I knew it was a scam as I hadn't talked to her about anything other than meeting for coffee. I told them to go get f**ked. Be careful out there. I'm 60, and just when I think I've seen it all. Boom!

First time she squirted. She's officially in love. LOL.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3739322]I'm just surprised nobody asked if there was an echo in here. I was scanning posts in a hurry and didn't see that you already covered this, FFA.[/QUOTE]Goes w / the territory these days- I'm no longer an elite member, so my posts must be reviewed before appearing -.

[QUOTE=FruitNinja;3739332]Just checked a site and the photos are hosted my imgur. Shouldn't be a problem getting them removed. But if you google the numbers it comes up toward the top of the search results. F**king asshats. I was emailing with a girl that told me twice she was 19. A day later I get an email saying she's 16 and they were her parents and if I didn't come up with some money they were going to go to the authorities. I knew it was a scam as I hadn't talked to her about anything other than meeting for coffee. I told them to go get f**ked. Be careful out there. I'm 60, and just when I think I've seen it all. Boom![/QUOTE]If you made contact w / that girl initially through SA, I sure hope you reported her to them. Heck, put up the info about her here. Sometimes they could be lazy and try to use the same pix over again, or the same patter. Just putting up the SA link isn't as good b / c 1) some of us don't have active accounts and 2) if you report her and the page is deleted, no one will be able to see it.