"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

I don't post often, and have not dipped my foot in the bowl. Not sure I even want to, but somehow love living vicariously here. Guessing I'm not alone in that regard.

Anyway, I've read a LOT of postings on this board that briefly refer to or describe a meet & greet, but never in any significant detail. I'd love to learn how you all approach these.

Obviously you meet at an agreed-upon public place, but once you recognize one another, this is where I get curious:

- Is it ever immediately awkward when you see her, she sees you, and your age difference is so stark that you feel guilty for even being there? (I know this sounds judgmental, it isn't intended that way. I think one thing holding me back is fear of how to behave in these types of situations / combinations that I have absolutely no experience with).

- Once you get over any initial awkward feelings, do you approach the conversation from a "tell me about yourself" standpoint?

- Is it more "what do we both want out of this / what got you to want to do this?" kind of discussion?

- Do you approach it as more of a first date or more of an interview? I realize there are problems with the analogy because a first date is often a vetting process, even if we don't call it that.).

Examples of M&G that have gone really poorly and really well?

Inching closer.

Cab.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3735222]IS it possible to search on LinkedIn or look at profiles anonymously? If I am looking around there for dates or a baby I sure am not interested in letting a SB know my real name, work location, etc, just in case she goes wacko on me. So is there a way to do that and keep the lives separate?

I agree that Google Images doesn't always come up with matches. Bur is there some other way to search a particular image on FB? Or is there an Instagram image search tool? Always interested in alternative or new methods.[/QUOTE]CL. I don't believe that Google is able to access photos on FB, so that is why there is a failure of image search to find those. I caution everyone about using SM sites to search for girls based on their email or phone #s. This is typically available to you only if you are a member. Be sure to use a profile that is not you personally. On FB, I have a 'commercial' profile I could use. It is no longer possible to establish a fake FB, they will ask for address info, etc. , and if you don't provide it the page is killed. It happened to me. IDK about LinkedIn, I don't know if you can set up something that's fake. It would be fine if you did. However, I don't trust them at all. When I had my real profile on LinkedIn, it was always suggesting contacts to me, based on some other application. Email or whatever. I did not trust it, so got off the site.

On FB, after I have searched for a few girls, I will log on and go to the "Edit" function in the search bar. There you will see everyone you have searched for. FB says 'only you have access to this info', but of course *they have access to it. So, I delete all of it, so there are no mishaps where they suggest that page as a friend to the POT, and by looking backwards she can figure out who I am.

On a couple of other SB threads, there is discussion of a *very active* campaign of getting profile pics and numbers from SA, and posting them on a predator site (seeking $ to get the post removed). This can obviously be a HUGE problem for those of us w / SOs. Be careful who you give pic access to. Use GV for your burner.

[QUOTE=ErnestLl;3735282]LIke everything, it comes at a price -- for both parties. I see who searches me, but if they -- like I do -- have a premium membership and enable their privacy settings, all it will show me is "Someone in the Finance Industry in Chicago" viewed your profile. If you live in a big enough city, she won't have a clue its you.

But unless they are very active linkedin users, they probably don't check their profile much until its job hunting time, and by them you would have banged them senseless.[/QUOTE]It's been a while since I used linkedin at all, but the last time I did, I believe it sent me an email notification when someone viewed my profile letting me know who. They may have changed how it works since then.

Aside from that, however, around that time I swore off linkedin altogether, because I found the real drawback was simply the fact that a girl would get informed that I viewed her. The account was under a fake name, so it wasn't revealing my identity, but I think just the simple fact that I was researching them by their real name freaked them out, because I lost a couple of girls (they went unresponsive for no reason, which is rare with girls I've already got an established dialog with) right after I clicked on their linkedin profile.

In other words I don't think linkedin is worth the risks, personally. I abandoned my bogus account years ago.

[QUOTE=Cabsauv1997;3735704]I don't post often, and have not dipped my foot in the bowl. Not sure I even want to, but somehow love living vicariously here. Guessing I'm not alone in that regard.

Anyway, I've read a LOT of postings on this board that briefly refer to or describe a meet & greet, but never in any significant detail. I'd love to learn how you all approach these.

Obviously you meet at an agreed-upon public place, but once you recognize one another, this is where I get curious:

- Is it ever immediately awkward when you see her, she sees you, and your age difference is so stark that you feel guilty for even being there? (I know this sounds judgmental, it isn't intended that way. I think one thing holding me back is fear of how to behave in these types of situations / combinations that I have absolutely no experience with).

- Once you get over any initial awkward feelings, do you approach the conversation from a "tell me about yourself" standpoint?

- Is it more "what do we both want out of this / what got you to want to do this?" kind of discussion?

- Do you approach it as more of a first date or more of an interview? I realize there are problems with the analogy because a first date is often a vetting process, even if we don't call it that.).

Examples of M&G that have gone really poorly and really well?

Inching closer.

Cab.[/QUOTE]Welcome! Nice to see someone new actually thinking things through before jumping in. As testimonies here indicate there are pit falls out there, so it makes sense to ask and learn.

Hey, if you haven't seen it before, a few lines down from this thread on the main Richmond index page is a thread with the above title. Kind gents like Zcochran00 and JZLizard set up the thread, poured over THOUSANDS of posts and created this virtual "How To" reference. There is actually a section there: Meet & Greets (post #4).

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?15100-Sugarbaby-Thread-Highlights-Index-and-FAQ&p=2480366&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2480366.

[I]NOTE: while the links work & take you to the post, the numbers are off a bit. For example, the hotlink took me to Varooms post, but it showed #222, not the listed #226. Probably some site maintenace issue that knocked the numbers off?[/I]

Not to stifle any discussion here as there are a wide range of opinions and approached to the bowl. Perhaps one has game / luck and the M&G is a formality prior to a visit to the FC? Otherwise it is just like any other relationship or first date. She is feeling you out as to safety, attraction, seriousness, etc. As a SD you want to do similar things- measure your attraction, her stability get a feel for her willingness.

What was initially written has me scratching my head, and perhaps that is on me for reading too much into this. But the M&G should not be too terribly socially awkward. 1) One could do a M&G only after one knows a bit about the girl such that it is just the meeting of old friends. 2) If one shows up and is nervous, unsure or hesitant it is possible that will show through to the girl and things will go badly. (remember- SBs often like confident successful men) 3) Hopefully one isn't chasing just any skirt because she is young, so part of the M&G is the little head pounding away at you to close the deal with such an attractive girl! But if one looks desperate or too eager to hit the FC, that can be a turn off too.

So it is a fine dance, seeped in psychology, gamesmanship and chemistry. Many approaches, many styles. Not one right for every situation.

Good Luck!

I just tested this viewing a profile of a non premium account and having that account view my premium membership.

The non-premium account does not get any notification of any views by a premium member with Privacy enabled.

The premium account does get a notification of any views- with full disclosure if the viewer is a non-premium or premium without security enabled. And just industry / location info if the viewer is premium with security enabled.

Given the monthly cost of a premium membership, it is unlikely a 20 something SB is a premium member.

Adding to the good advice from CL below about a newbie's first M&G, here's my take on having been in the bowl now for three years. I like to get a potential SB straight to the M&G as soon as possible. Sometimes the same day I contact her if I am lucky. She is getting a lot of messages especially if she is new on the site and she will only have the time to meet but so many guys unless you are dealing with an escort or UTR. So the sooner you meet her the better your odds.

I always take a potential SB to a place I have dined at before. I usually know where the quieter tables are located and ask the hostess to seat us there. I already know what I am going to order so I won't be trying to decide what I want while she maybe chatting away. After the initial pleasantries of meeting, I offer my suggestions from the menu. Gives you both the time the get a conversation started and a chance for the initial butterflies to settle down. I am usually thinking of how good she looks in person and casually noting to myself how she is dressed and if she has makeup on or not while she is looking over the menu. A big plus if she has chosen a top or dress that shows a lot of cleavage. Tells me that she has dressed to impress and knows that the "game" is on. I will compliment her if she is wearing a necklace as so few young women these days bother with that accessory. Otherwise, I leave off complimenting her on her looks on a first meeting.

Since you asked about specifics during the m&g here's my next move. After we have ordered the meal I ask a question about something I saw on her profile like dancing, hiking or whatever. She will get comfortable really quick as she talks about a favorite subject of hers. Hopefully I can share my experiences with whatever she is talking about. If not I move onto to telling her about something I like to do that may be appeal to her as well. From there it's just like a regular date. Seeing what her personality is like and she seeing yours. I never bring up SA or my past SBs unless she does it first. If she is not a newbie to this, she most likely will ask about it. Probably ask how come your last arrangement ended or what type of arrangement did you have before or how do you do an arrangement. Since you are new, you can just be honest and say its new to me and you are looking for something that is mutually benefiting. Her response will determine the direction the conversation takes from there. Usually by now its getting close to the end of meal and you both pretty much know if you want to see each other again.

Some general points: Women that look away a lot while talking are generally harder to get to the FC. If you two have maintained good eye contact and shared some good laughs over dinner, you might even have a shot to continue your date in private that night. Otherwise I don't press that issue and I usually get a text from her before I get home saying how much she liked her evening and looking forward to seeing me again. Overall, women that hug me upon greeting and leaving almost always end up in the FC on the next or third date.

As mentioned in the earlier post, be confident and keep the conversation going. Don't get too personal but show her you care about her as a person even though you may be thinking about that cleavage just out of reach across the table!

[QUOTE=ErnestLl;3736537]I just tested this viewing a profile of a non premium account and having that account view my premium membership.

The non-premium account does not get any notification of any views by a premium member with Privacy enabled.

The premium account does get a notification of any views- with full disclosure if the viewer is a non-premium or premium without security enabled. And just industry / location info if the viewer is premium with security enabled.

Given the monthly cost of a premium membership, it is unlikely a 20 something SB is a premium member.[/QUOTE]Well if it works for you and fits you risk profile then great! It crosses lines I do not wish to cross between my hobby life and real life and is outside of personal risk parameters. To each his own.

[QUOTE=Cabsauv1997;3735704] Is it ever immediately awkward when you see her, she sees you, and your age difference is so stark that you feel guilty for even being there? (I know this sounds judgmental, it isn't intended that way. I think one thing holding me back is fear of how to behave in these types of situations / combinations that I have absolutely no experience with).
[/QUOTE]As someone pointed out, you're very wise to research the bowl as you are, before starting. And the Highlights / Index / FAQ thread is a great place to start, because of the categorization of posts.

In terms of age difference, I think here is where some misconceptions exist among newcomers to sugar culture (or those who have been in an extended marriage or for whatever reason have limited experience dating younger girls).

Believe it or not, there are TONS of young girls out there that are actually MORE attracted to older men than guys their age. Sure, there are some that will say anything to increase their income flow too, but the majority of girls on SD sites have at least a moderate attraction to much older guys, and many of them won't date young guys, with or without sugar. Their reasons are sometimes rooted in daddy issues, but there is a bigger reason for this, which comes down to the men are from mars women are from venus thing.

While we are most attracted to a hot looking young female, particularly sans clothes, the same is not really true for them when it comes to the male body. More than anything, women are turned on by whoever makes THEM feel HOT. We are more into the visual aspect, they are more into the feeling aspect. Girls that are super hot can get wet and horny just looking at themselves in the mirror. Even if they are not bisexual, they get turned on by the overall look of a great female body. So, the hotter THEY FEEL, the hornier they get. For many of them, young guys are too immature, lack ambition and don't know how to make a women feel hot, so they feel more appreciated by older men who are more sexually experienced, and thus they enjoy sex and the overall experience more.

Certainly there are women who don't fit that description, but the great thing about SA and such -- they tend to cluster the kind of girls I just described into one location, so you don't have to deal with the hot looking 35 year old cougars that chase young men.

So basically if you're feeling awkward or somehow at a disadvantage due to the age difference, you'll want to get over that first, because the age difference is exactly what a lot of these girls seek. The same physical features that make you look in the mirror and say to yourself that getting old sucks are often the same ones that make her panties wet. The one exception to that is that I think that every SD needs to focus on staying fit. I've never heard an SB say she is attracted to someone out of shape.

Chatting w / a bowl brother today, he related he had a POT who planned to take him to her college dorm room, and I opined that the "Dorm Room Experience" is something every SD aspires to. LOL.

[QUOTE=ErnestLl;3734015]You'd be surprised what you can find on LinkedIn and other business sites when fishing for 20 somethings.

A shocking number of them use a LinkedIn photo in the galleries, or their profile photo for tutoring or dog walking services. But the LinkedIn search function is gold.

Was messaging a grad student in Boston, who later revealed she was in Providence at Brown, but willing to drive. She told me her major and undergrad school. Guess what, there is only one person at Brown for Grad School that went to SDSU for undergrad. I've used alma mater and industry to verify an advertising account exec in Chicago.

Google reverse image search is probably only 50% accurate. I've been surprised how many times I've used it, found nothing, but found them by other means and there is half their profile gallery on facebook or instagram with no matches.[/QUOTE]My way is to just be very nice and act like a gentleman when talking to them and just straight up ask them for a social media like Facebook or Instagram and the real good girls that you want to actually meet and put the time into will 99% of the time give it to me. The ones that don't you can tell are on drugs or are UTR or pro. I go for the college age or just out all the time. With great success rates.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3737143]As someone pointed out, you're very wise to research the bowl as you are, before starting. And the Highlights / Index / FAQ thread is a great place to start, because of the categorization of posts.

In terms of age difference, I think here is where some misconceptions exist among newcomers to sugar culture (or those who have been in an extended marriage or for whatever reason have limited experience dating younger girls).

Believe it or not, there are TONS of young girls out there that are actually MORE attracted to older men than guys their age. Sure, there are some that will say anything to increase their income flow too, but the majority of girls on SD sites have at least a moderate attraction to much older guys, and many of them won't date young guys, with or without sugar. Their reasons are sometimes rooted in daddy issues, but there is a bigger reason for this, which comes down to the men are from mars women are from venus thing.

While we are most attracted to a hot looking young female, particularly sans clothes, the same is not really true for them when it comes to the male body. More than anything, women are turned on by whoever makes THEM feel HOT. We are more into the visual aspect, they are more into the feeling aspect. Girls that are super hot can get wet and horny just looking at themselves in the mirror. Even if they are not bisexual, they get turned on by the overall look of a great female body. So, the hotter THEY FEEL, the hornier they get. For many of them, young guys are too immature, lack ambition and don't know how to make a women feel hot, so they feel more appreciated by older men who are more sexually experienced, and thus they enjoy sex and the overall experience more.

Certainly there are women who don't fit that description, but the great thing about SA and such -- they tend to cluster the kind of girls I just described into one location, so you don't have to deal with the hot looking 35 year old cougars that chase young men.

So basically if you're feeling awkward or somehow at a disadvantage due to the age difference, you'll want to get over that first, because the age difference is exactly what a lot of these girls seek. The same physical features that make you look in the mirror and say to yourself that getting old sucks are often the same ones that make her panties wet. The one exception to that is that I think that every SD needs to focus on staying fit. I've never heard an SB say she is attracted to someone out of shape.[/QUOTE]Spot on! They all have daddy issues. Make them feel pretty and special and you're in. Don't let societal norms dictate your behavior. You'll get some looks at times. I take my girl everywhere. And she's always doing public displays of affection. She doesn't care, I don't care.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3735791]On a couple of other SB threads, there is discussion of a *very active* campaign of getting profile pics and numbers from SA, and posting them on a predator site (seeking $ to get the post removed). This can obviously be a HUGE problem for those of us w / SOs. Be careful who you give pic access to. Use GV for your burner.[/QUOTE]Predator sites? I'm not sure I understand this scam. Please elaborate for the greater good.

[QUOTE=FruitNinja;3737477]Predator sites? I'm not sure I understand this scam. Please elaborate for the greater good.[/QUOTE]

The scam is this: Someone poses as a SB, gets "uneducated" dude to respond and supply his cell phone number, picture and / or social media links. (or such is "mined" once guy reveals his true identity -real name, phone number tied to SM.) THEN said phone number, picture, other personal information AND actual texts of correspondence is entered in to a searchable website, a site with some name suggesting it is outing pedophiles or sexual predators or just demonstrating a dude is willing to pay for sex.

So, one does a Google search on their name, phone, number or whatever and here is the content of communications with "a girl" - which of course shows that the dude was looking for sex for money or other perversions. {Great find, especially when one is applying for a job, dating or applying for a loan or anything else the requires a background check.} Next step is an email to the target / victim claiming that they had been "discovered" on one of these sites and it was possible it was an error AND for a small "administration fee" of say $500 the website would conduct an investigation, and if found to be false, remove the "file. ".

Key point is that said websites are usually hosted in India or other off shore locations which is out of reach legally to most USA based victims. No way to get a court order to have info removed. BUT the fact is that if it is true, dude DID contact a girl then there is nothing "inaccurate" or malicious, so a court is going to be loath to get involved. Courts aren't a remedy when one is breaking the law or behaving badly.

So yeah, it is extortion of sorts but being off shore what can one do? Only option is pay the "fee" and hope the scammers are honest enough to take your info down off of their searchable site.

Look, years ago one of the most popular TV shows was a reoccurring segment on Dateline called "To Catch A Predator. " A vigilante organization called PJ worked with LE. [I]{text deleted that described show - site admin not likely to appreciate such}[/I] BUT the popular series was abruptly halted. Turns out some of the "tactics" employed by PJ did not live up to scrutiny and the TV show & LE could no longer be associated with the group. But the key is that PJ has not gone away, they continue to operate as an independent vigilante group. So there are "watchers" out there and groups not bound by normal legal constraints that could be phishing for your info.

Oh, and 4 years ago there was a scam running on BP as reported in this post and discussed in follow up posts/comments:
[url]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?7280-BackPage-Advertiser-Reviews&p=2117372&viewfull=1#post2117372[/url]

All of this of course points to why it makes sense to have a hobby phone, not in one's name and a GV number layered on top of that! Oh and before one selects a GV number, might make sense to google it and see what pops up!

[QUOTE=FruitNinja;3737475] Don't let societal norms dictate your behavior. You'll get some looks at times. I take my girl everywhere. And she's always doing public displays of affection. She doesn't care, I don't care.[/QUOTE]I recently had a 21 yr old that looked a lot younger than her age -- most would guess she was about 16-17. It was surprising to me how rarely anyone ever looked twice at us, even with public displays of affection in busy places.

One time she forgot her I.D. card while we were at a restaurant for dinner. After we already placed our food orders, she decided she wanted a daiquiri. When I said I would order for myself and give it to her, we got a couple of looks as some thought I must be ordering for a minor. Only minutes after starting to sip the drink, she started talking out loud about specific sex acts she wanted us to do after dinner, within earshot of everyone around. Now THAT was fun, and definitely got some attention and wide grins from some nearby nosy eavesdroppers. LOL. And she couldn't care less that they heard her. I'm known for "high volume payloads" during orgasm, and she was very into the cum bath experience -- it was new to her and apparently a latent fantasy of hers before she met me. I bet the nearby diners really appreciated hearing about that as they looked down at their salad dressing...

[QUOTE=FruitNinja;3737477]Predator sites? I'm not sure I understand this scam. Please elaborate for the greater good.[/QUOTE]Don't quote me on the URL, as I understand it is tricky to get right, but something like [URL]predatorsalert.com[/URL]. It consists of photos of guys and their phone #s, and accusations such as 'offers $ for sex'. If you pay them $ you can get your pic taken down. I believe people have gotten texts from the site alerting them to being on it and suggesting they pay. Flat-out extortion. Put yourself in a position where you can ignore this. Some people have evidently been successful getting photos taken down by DMCA requests to their photo host, [URL]imgur.com[/URL]. There are other strategies. Perhaps search these threads with a keyword like predator to see what others have experience. They were SDs in Wisconsin, Georgia, etc. The belief is that fake profiles on SA were used to get people's profile pic, messaging to get the phone #s.