"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=TheMarto1;3728692]I always started with hi when I tried to have a convo with this hos they never answer back but when I asking for rates then it's when I got an answer[/QUOTE]I can tell you that if you are looking for "hos" that's pretty much all you'll ever find. Consistently landing real SBs (at least the cream of the crop) takes practice, and one of the key skills needed for success is knowing when to recognize a UTR / pro or any easy girl that's in it for simple pay per fuck so that you can avoid her. Until you acquire that skill, you will be disappointed with sugar dating.

Also there are some girls who will "pretend" to be overpriced escorts in order to get rid of you quickly. This is because it's easier for them to say they want $500-1000 per date (knowing full well its going to cause you to disappear) than it is for them to just say they're not interested. Many of them are only doing this as a ruse, they would just ghost and probably block someone that says "ok I'll give you $1k for a date". There are girls there who will fuck anyone for the right price, but they are the "hos" to be avoided and not real SBs.

And I've noticed on some of the other boards that a lot of you guys that seem to have bad luck in the bowl are in small towns. That's a big disadvantage, because hot women gravitate toward large metro areas, and most hot girls in small towns are willing to drive a couple of hours to meet an SD in the nearest large city, even just for an M&G. I love these small town girls, they are extremely adventurous and full of dreams, and the boredom of daily small town life has them so sexually bottled up that they are a lot of fun. They are not really interested in meeting SDs in the towns they live in, mostly because there's nothing to do there and they need a change of scenery. Also if they are truly hot, they likely have SDs contacting them that are willing to fly them to wherever the SD is, so they have no real motivation to look at local SDs. So for guys in smaller towns or rural areas, unless you're willing to do some traveling I don't think the bowl is going to be worthwhile for you.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3729118]3) I compliment them in my first message and demonstrate I read their profile. [/QUOTE]I agree that showing you read their profile is important. I'll compliment them on anything except their physical appearance, though. If it's about some specific physical attribute (that's above their shoulders), and you can make it come across as sincere, it can work, but a generic "you're pretty", or worse, "you're hot", falls flat coming from a total stranger (unless it's another woman). Waiting until they've gotten to know you well enough to actually *care* whether you think they're pretty or not, then telling them they are seems to work better.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3729118]7) I subtly introduce my interest in intimacy, but i don't focus on it. This makes them feel like less of an escort, but also weeds the platonic girls.[/QUOTE]I don't bring it up. Inevitably they will ask about it at some point. I ask them if they really think any normal man wouldn't want intimacy with them, and of course they realize how silly that sounds. But I stress that's not what I'm paying them for, that it's not mandatory, and that I don't want them to do anything they're not comfortable with. I've managed to get platonic girls with that before, though it required paying normal price for a number of platonic meetups first. I can understand a guy not wanting to make that investment, but for me it's worth it if the girl is a perfect 10. And the challenge of it can be fun.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3729118]8) I move offline quickly. I need to get them before they get jaded and disable their profile.[/QUOTE]Definitely. Keeping them in their texting app instead of in the SA app also helps reduce their exposure to the guys you're competing with. Plus their phone number sometime yields a Facebook profile that shows they don't look as good as their SA pics and you can save yourself some time (and money, for me). And if that gets you their real name, you can check for arrest records for them to make sure you're not dealing with a basket case.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3729118]10) I schedule a meet and greet quickly. I never provide an allowance for the meet and greet, but also make it clear there are no expectations from them. [/QUOTE]I'm curious, do you ever have girls refuse to meet because of that? I always offer something, though I've had some I sat across from at dinner and considered not giving the money once I could tell I had no interest in seeing them again LOL.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3729118]I'm sure I've missed some other points and would be interested in things others do to pursue the elusive "Amateur" SB.[/QUOTE]Being able to make them feel you're interested in them, and giving them money, for their company and who they are, not for their body, is the overall key, I think.

One thing I've found helpful is to ask her sometime when you're hanging out, once things are established with her, to show you some awful messages she's gotten on SA, or awful profiles. Ask her what she didn't like about each one she shows you. You can improve a lot from seeing the mistakes other guys are making.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3729238]I can tell you that if you are looking for "hos" that's pretty much all you'll ever find. Consistently landing real SBs (at least the cream of the crop) takes practice, and one of the key skills needed for success is knowing when to recognize a UTR / pro or any easy girl that's in it for simple pay per fuck so that you can avoid her. Until you acquire that skill, you will be disappointed with sugar dating.

Also there are some girls who will "pretend" to be overpriced escorts in order to get rid of you quickly. This is because it's easier for them to say they want $500-1000 per date (knowing full well its going to cause you to disappear) than it is for them to just say they're not interested. Many of them are only doing this as a ruse, they would just ghost and probably block someone that says "ok I'll give you $1k for a date". There are girls there who will fuck anyone for the right price, but they are the "hos" to be avoided and not real SBs.

And I've noticed on some of the other boards that a lot of you guys that seem to have bad luck in the bowl are in small towns. That's a big disadvantage, because hot women gravitate toward large metro areas, and most hot girls in small towns are willing to drive a couple of hours to meet an SD in the nearest large city, even just for an M&G. I love these small town girls, they are extremely adventurous and full of dreams, and the boredom of daily small town life has them so sexually bottled up that they are a lot of fun. They are not really interested in meeting SDs in the towns they live in, mostly because there's nothing to do there and they need a change of scenery. Also if they are truly hot, they likely have SDs contacting them that are willing to fly them to wherever the SD is, so they have no real motivation to look at local SDs. So for guys in smaller towns or rural areas, unless you're willing to do some traveling I don't think the bowl is going to be worthwhile for you.[/QUOTE]I think the fact that someone would call them hos is part of the problem. That shows a level of disrespect, maybe a nicer approach. This is the thing they are running from. The other thing that I find useful is intelligent banter. These girls are in college. Show them you're intelligent. Let them know that you're successful. They have a lot of choices. There are guys that will fly them out to them. I took the 19 year old Latina to a high end steak house last night. I know the neighborhood she grew up in as I used to live there. She's never experienced anything like that. She was amazed at the service and the meal. She felt special. She didn't stop smiling the whole dinner. When we got home she ravished me.

[QUOTE=TwoDirection;3729372]I agree that showing you read their profile is important. I'll compliment them on anything except their physical appearance, though. If it's about some specific physical attribute (that's above their shoulders), and you can make it come across as sincere, it can work, but a generic "you're pretty", or worse, "you're hot", falls flat coming from a total stranger (unless it's another woman). Waiting until they've gotten to know you well enough to actually *care* whether you think they're pretty or not, then telling them they are seems to work better.

I don't bring it up. Inevitably they will ask about it at some point. I ask them if they really think any normal man wouldn't want intimacy with them, and of course they realize how silly that sounds. But I stress that's not what I'm paying them for, that it's not mandatory, and that I don't want them to do anything they're not comfortable with. I've managed to get platonic girls with that before, though it required paying normal price for a number of platonic meetups first. I can understand a guy not wanting to make that investment, but for me it's worth it if the girl is a perfect 10. And the challenge of it can be fun.

Definitely. Keeping them in their texting app instead of in the SA app also helps reduce their exposure to the guys you're competing with. Plus their phone number sometime yields a Facebook profile that shows they don't look as good as their SA pics and you can save yourself some time (and money, for me). And if that gets you their real name, you can check for arrest records for them to make sure you're not dealing with a basket case.

I'm curious, do you ever have girls refuse to meet because of that? I always offer something, though I've had some I sat across from at dinner and considered not giving the money once I could tell I had no interest in seeing them again LOL.

Being able to make them feel you're interested in them, and giving them money, for their company and who they are, not for their body, is the overall key, I think.

One thing I've found helpful is to ask her sometime when you're hanging out, once things are established with her, to show you some awful messages she's gotten on SA, or awful profiles. Ask her what she didn't like about each one she shows you. You can improve a lot from seeing the mistakes other guys are making.[/QUOTE]Some great info in both these posts. All I can add is once I meet and we are intimate I never stop telling them how pretty and special they are. I can't count how many times I tell my 19 year old Latina how special she is. I find the word "adorable" works well.

[QUOTE=TwoDirection;3729372]
I'm curious, do you ever have girls refuse to meet because of that? I always offer something, though I've had some I sat across from at dinner and considered not giving the money once I could tell I had no interest in seeing them again LOL.[/QUOTE]I never pay an allowance for a meet and greet. I always cover the meet expenses, but nothing more.

I have had a number of girls refuse to meet because of that, but I never felt like I missed out on anything. Some have asked, but still agreed to meet even though I refused to pay an allowance for the meet and greet. I feel like I avoided future headaches.

My impression is that girls who require an allowance for a meet and greet are scammers or have gps. Neither is my target demographic. LOL.

I'm curious, have others had successful arrangements with girls who demand an allowance for the meet?

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/136eb3a4-ef42-432f-b35c-b481b8c28360[/URL]

This girl used to be on Backpage like two years ago. Worst tits I've ever seen, but there is something unique about a girl who's 4'8" (her profile says 4'9", but I think that's their lowest choice because I know she told me 4'8") I think she charged $120 or $140 for a half hour. The number I had for her doesn't work anymore, and my SA isn't paid currently, so I'm stuck waiting to see if she accepts my FB friend request for me to have a way to contact her because I'd like to hook up with her again.

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/0113a3d9-89e1-42e0-af87-4110f5a7f419[/URL]

I haven't met this one yet, but I offered her $400 to come over and she agreed. High, but that body is killer enough to do it once. She's out of town for school most of the time so I haven't yet been able to line up a weekend where she was here and I was feeling rich enough to do it.

A few months ago, I met an 18 year old high school girl from SA for lunch. I didn't like her that much, so that was the end of that. Just now, I looked her up on social media out of boredom and saw some recent posts of her 18th birthday party. Whoops. Thank goodness we only met for lunch! Time to start checking the driver's license when I meet these girls.

[QUOTE=FruitNinja;3729478]I think the fact that someone would call them hos is part of the problem. That shows a level of disrespect, maybe a nicer approach.[/QUOTE]Yes, that is part of what I was trying to say to the poster, even if I was a bit too diplomatic about it. I think he's barking up the wrong tree if he wants "hos". He will definitely find them if that's what he's after, but he will only land overpriced backpage girls that are charging twice as much as they do in their original habitat.

[QUOTE=FruitNinja;3729478]
This is the thing they are running from. The other thing that I find useful is intelligent banter. These girls are in college. Show them you're intelligent. Let them know that you're successful. They have a lot of choices. There are guys that will fly them out to them. I took the 19 year old Latina to a high end steak house last night. I know the neighborhood she grew up in as I used to live there. She's never experienced anything like that. She was amazed at the service and the meal. She felt special. She didn't stop smiling the whole dinner. When we got home she ravished me.[/QUOTE]That feeling of being special you just described is what they are really after -- not just SBs but women in general. This is yet another differentiator between an SB and a pro. A pro is in it for money, period. Maybe she's feeding a habit, maybe not, but at the end of the day her goal is to maximize her income. An SB, above all wants attention and attention from a successful man is like crack to them. It's not an SB exclusive, ALL women want attention. Once that need for attention is being properly fed (a learned skill for the SD), they will take their mind off of money.

I truly think the trick to success in the bowl is to understand that an SB is closer to a girlfriend or even just a female fuck buddy than an escort. Pull the right strings and they won't even take your money anymore.

I wrote about this recently, but on my last traveling binge, I dropped my longstanding strategy of sending them home after the sex was over (this by the way is nothing against them, I just sleep better alone). When searching for POTS, I intentionally culled the herd down to about 6 or seven that I really wanted to meet, aiming for one in each city with two backups in case the first fell through. This time, I said fuck it to a good nights rest, and spent between 2-5 days with the ones I wanted to meet the most. Without fail with each one, the need for allowance dropped out of the picture by day two. One started trying to pick up the check for our meals on day two! Another one decided she was in love with me by day 3 and specifically asked me to remove money from the equation, because she didn't really need it and didn't want it to get in the way of what could develop. The others received my standard gift of $$ (not including expenses like meals and drinks), but that's for overnight and multiple rounds, and nothing that was agreed upon or specifically asked for.

I'm not 100% sure I will do it the same way next time, because breaking it off with the "in love by day 3" girl was a bit draining, I felt like it was a stressful surgical exercise where her emotions were like critical arteries to be cautious of, but the point is that once that need for attention is properly tapped into, the world is our oyster and the girls will line up, sugar or no sugar.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3729618]I never pay an allowance for a meet and greet. I always cover the meet expenses, but nothing more.

I have had a number of girls refuse to meet because of that, but I never felt like I missed out on anything. Some have asked, but still agreed to meet even though I refused to pay an allowance for the meet and greet. I feel like I avoided future headaches.

My impression is that girls who require an allowance for a meet and greet are scammers or have gps. Neither is my target demographic. LOL.

I'm curious, have others had successful arrangements with girls who demand an allowance for the meet?[/QUOTE]I personally do not give any money just to met. Scam. The one I'm with now hasn't asked me for money after I gave her some money after we had been intimate. I've seen her after and she hasn't mention anything about money other than she needed to make a credit card payment. I'll help her with that.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3729953]Yes, that is part of what I was trying to say to the poster, even if I was a bit too diplomatic about it. I think he's barking up the wrong tree if he wants "hos". He will definitely find them if that's what he's after, but he will only land overpriced backpage girls that are charging twice as much as they do in their original habitat.

That feeling of being special you just described is what they are really after -- not just SBs but women in general. This is yet another differentiator between an SB and a pro. A pro is in it for money, period. Maybe she's feeding a habit, maybe not, but at the end of the day her goal is to maximize her income. An SB, above all wants attention and attention from a successful man is like crack to them. It's not an SB exclusive, ALL women want attention. Once that need for attention is being properly fed (a learned skill for the SD), they will take their mind off of money.

I truly think the trick to success in the bowl is to understand that an SB is closer to a girlfriend or even just a female fuck buddy than an escort. Pull the right strings and they won't even take your money anymore.

I wrote about this recently, but on my last traveling binge, I dropped my longstanding strategy of sending them home after the sex was over (this by the way is nothing against them, I just sleep better alone). When searching for POTS, I intentionally culled the herd down to about 6 or seven that I really wanted to meet, aiming for one in each city with two backups in case the first fell through. This time, I said fuck it to a good nights rest, and spent between 2-5 days with the ones I wanted to meet the most. Without fail with each one, the need for allowance dropped out of the picture by day two. One started trying to pick up the check for our meals on day two! Another one decided she was in love with me by day 3 and specifically asked me to remove money from the equation, because she didn't really need it and didn't want it to get in the way of what could develop. The others received my standard gift of $$ (not including expenses like meals and drinks), but that's for overnight and multiple rounds, and nothing that was agreed upon or specifically asked for.

I'm not 100% sure I will do it the same way next time, because breaking it off with the "in love by day 3" girl was a bit draining, I felt like it was a stressful surgical exercise where her emotions were like critical arteries to be cautious of, but the point is that once that need for attention is properly tapped into, the world is our oyster and the girls will line up, sugar or no sugar.[/QUOTE]I think some think there is a set formula. It's different as people are different. I have a 30 year old that has me over feeds me, gets wine, and is literally the best piece of ass I've ever had. No woman on earth could suck a dick like she can. I know she has feelings but I have told her I will never get serious with anyone.

A 24 year old that costs me dinner and $$ for an all nighter. Total freak, will do as I tell her. Multiple cummer.

A 19 year old that I basically take out and help with bills. Hot body, sex is very good but she's only good for one shot. It drains her.

I treat them all as girlfriends in some fashion. The 30 and 24 don't much care if I fuck others. They tell me they are not and I have no reson to believe otherwise based on my observations. The 19 year old I told I didn't want her fucking anyone else. Not sure about this. We haven't talked about that other than I told her I didn't want her fucking anyone. A little selfish but she's fresh and I want to have my fun with her.

Tonight after we had our fun she went to the bathroom. Called me to come and see our combined cum running down her legs. So hot for both of us.

[QUOTE=FruitNinja;3730029]I personally do not give any money just to met. Scam. The one I'm with now hasn't asked me for money after I gave her some money after we had been intimate. I've seen her after and she hasn't mention anything about money other than she needed to make a credit card payment. I'll help her with that.[/QUOTE]I never pay for a M&G, if they have a drive I will even if they don't ask (and only talking 20 to 40) but when they look for real money I politely say I don't pay for M&G's, that it's for both of us to determine interest, and that really I get nothing out of that, that I want to be friends but am not lonely / desperate, and that while I know their time is valuable, so is mine. Even if they don't have a drive I have given 20 or something for gas when requested but I have a problem with significant donations for M&G's.

First if they can find repeated guys to give them 100 or 200 to buy them dinner, why would they ever go to the FC? I know many of these girls are not like that but some are. I've had at least two where I wasn't even giving them that much (maybe like $25 gift cards) but I eventually figured out that they were using me for nice meals. I basically asked if we would eventually move forward and both said no after some discussion. I felt more used by someone who wasn't honest about intentions than like I failed at a chase. I've had 2 this month where when I said no to paying for a M&G with them, then after enough texting back and forth they admitted that's exactly what they have been doing, going on paid dates. I dodged a bullet with both.

But if you're having success in doing that don't change it, but I rarely if ever do it and it's only cost me a handful of M&Gs over the years. I like the chase too for a newbie, but I don't like going on 3+ dates to close when there's a good chance it's a waste of money, and time, and more risk at being seen in public since I have an SO. I also find that by being crystal clear that my support and the allowance is based on us becoming physical that they are more motivated to get there. The most cautious one I had took 4 dates, for which she only got a meal or coffee and gas money, she kept meeting me to get comfortable but she was clear what had to happen for us to have an arrangement. And she got there, and there is no doubt that I was the first guy she ever did this with. I wonder if I had been giving her 200 for M&Gs, or even 100 if she ever would've done it. I tend to doubt it.

[QUOTE=GoinDonkey;3729808]A few months ago, I met an 18 year old high school girl from SA for lunch. I didn't like her that much, so that was the end of that. Just now, I looked her up on social media out of boredom and saw some recent posts of her 18th birthday party. Whoops. Thank goodness we only met for lunch! Time to start checking the driver's license when I meet these girls.[/QUOTE]Always reverse image search to find their social media, and if that doesn't work, ask them if they can give you their IG or FB to verify them. Through a little sleuthing, even if they don't use their full name on IG, you can figure out their name and then search on that. If you google them and find nothing, it's a bad sign imo.

A while back on my "home" forum, the Cleveland SD / SB forum, someone mentioned a Halloween discount code for SA. That was great, but how do you find out what the current discount code is each month? I'm guessing that there is one each month to draw us in. Anybody know?

Any body had experience with ArtAndHappiness to share?

She seems like cool Indian chic. Richmond mongers should have an experience to share. Feel free to PM please.

[QUOTE=DoubtingTom;3732571]A while back on my "home" forum, the Cleveland SD / SB forum, someone mentioned a Halloween discount code for SA. That was great, but how do you find out what the current discount code is each month? I'm guessing that there is one each month to draw us in. Anybody know?[/QUOTE]I don't think they discount much. I found that code too, was tempted to sign up again, not having been active recently, and it turned out the discount was only for girls.