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Rrguy, welcome to the sugar bowl. It sounds to me like both these girls are high drama / maintainence and I would try to stick with higher quality girls. These would be employed and / or in school who don't need $$, but use funds for extra things. These two sound like low brows. Plus, if #2 will trade her other date for you she is either lying or has no conscience and will eventually do the same to you.
Gentlemen,
I have already obtained Mandy's input on this question, so wanted to put it to the brotherhood at large. For those of you with an ATF, or a steady SB, how often do you communicate with her about things other than a calisthenics class appointment? Or in fact, do you at all? And how often do they reach out with a "touch-base" to you?
I ask because I may be way in the deep end with my ATF in terms of contacting her during our downtimes. Mandy assures me this is so, and I am not doubting her, just would like additional input.
Thanking you in advance,
Scott
My SB of 1 year and I see each other 2 nights / week for an overnight. She has been slow to communicate but of late she calls 2 or 3 nights / week in between visits and we text usually daily. I demand this of her since I want that irl gf sensation. Our contact is short and sweet. She does not like to chat and calls are usually 5 minutes and texts one liners. This is how I like it.
What is the correct frequency? It depends on what your goals are re: the relationship. Mandy has been successful seeing multiple SDs and a husband and seems to be happy doing things that way. I am not in favor of multiple sbs or sds in our relationship so I work toward a more intense interaction. I have been through my multifucking phase and am no in a monogamous one.
[QUOTE=F Scott; 1427684]Gentlemen,
I have already obtained Mandy's input on this question, so wanted to put it to the brotherhood at large. For those of you with an ATF, or a steady SB, how often do you communicate with her about things other than a calisthenics class appointment? Or in fact, do you at all? And how often do they reach out with a "touch-base" to you?
I ask because I may be way in the deep end with my ATF in terms of contacting her during our downtimes. Mandy assures me this is so, and I am not doubting her, just would like additional input.
Thanking you in advance,
Scott[/QUOTE]I have been in this situation with my ATF to two different degrees. In general, I am not opposed to the occasional text conversation or brief phone chat. As Hernando said, it gives that IRL GFE that many of us seek. But, as your question suggests, Scott, there is a line past which it becomes less GFE and more like you have an actual girlfriend. Call it what you want--an affair, etc.--but be prepared for things to get messy.
In my case, my ATF and I hit it off very well and very quickly. Within two months, I was seeing her multiple times a week, and rarely a day passed when we didn't talk for at least a little while on the phone. I think I've said this before, but: To her credit, she told me we had to stop after about a month. She knew I did not want to leave my wife, and she was in no position to have a full time boyfriend. Since then, we've developed a very casual, once-a-week-or-so type of relationship. I may text her from time to time (never more than once a week beyond when I've already seen her), and she will rarely text me. We almost never speak on the phone. This particular system, which I admit we stumbled on by accident, helps remind both of us that we're only in this for NSA fun.
Only you know where that line is. I suspect, based on your question, that you feel you have crossed it. I don't judge either way, but if you have crossed it, be prepared for your current personal life to eventually become a mess, or your life with your ATF to become a mess, or both. I was lucky that I was able to recover before I hit bottom, and I suffered only a few emotional bruises, which were (lucky for me) unnoticeable to my friends and family. I hope that I can avoid a similar mistake in the future.
If you want to look at this from purely a statistical standpoint, remember that the more she texts, e-mails, or calls you, the more opportunity there is for your communications to be discovered by someone else. However vigilant we all may be about deleting texts, guarding passwords, or using a hobby phone or scrubbing the call log on our personal phone, we all will eventually forget to do something. Call it the Tiger Woods paradox (in fact, I think someone here already has). The fewer the communications, the easier it is to secure the information.
Regards,
Joe
Having only recently completed my reading this thread from oldest to newest, I know the members have discussed and analyzed in detail the topic of sugar negotiations. I had a first interview today, however, that causes me to revisit this issue.
The lady in question, SB3, is beautiful, funny, and a joy to be with. We were able to meet only briefly in a public place, so I do not yet know how the physical chemistry will develop. She was not shy, however, about noting that she has done this before, and I know, based on my preliminary research, that she also dabbles in the professional leagues. (She did not admit this to me, but I did not ask, either.) Needless to say, I'd like to get to know her better.
Having had season tickets in a few different leagues now, I know what the going salary is for a major leaguer. During our meeting, though, she noted that her last boyfriend bought her a car, a condo, and paid her junior college tuition. She said he was a millionaire, although this all could be, as we in the legal profession like to say, "mere puffery."
Specific remuneration amounts did not arise during our conversation, but I was firm in pointing out that I am not a millionaire, nor can I afford to live like one. I think she got the point, and she was direct that we should meet again soon. I will have to set my limits before then, lest I loose my senses (and my bank account balance).
What methods of self control work best when you know your limits, but the little brain keeps screaming, "Give her what she wants! She's gorgeous, and I haven't seen any action in a week!"?
In the end, I guess it's more of a rhetorical question, as we just had the GPS discussion earlier today. Better to move on than to lose more than you can afford. I'll keep you posted as we continue the negotiations.
Regards,
Joe
[QUOTE=JoesParty; 1427808]I had a first interview today.
The lady in question, SB3, is beautiful, funny, and a joy to be with. During our meeting, though, she noted that her last boyfriend bought her a car, a condo, and paid her junior college tuition. She said he was a millionaire, although this all could be, as we in the legal profession like to say,"mere puffery."
Specific remuneration amounts did not arise during our conversation, but I was firm in pointing out that I am not a millionaire, nor can I afford to live like one. I think she got the point, and she was direct that we should meet again soon. I will have to set my limits before then, lest I loose my senses (and my bank account balance).
In the end, I guess it's more of a rhetorical question, as we just had the GPS discussion earlier today. Better to move on than to lose more than you can afford.
Regards,
Joe[/QUOTE]Joe,
I want to thank you for your considered response to my question, but also to respond to your dilemma as well. As all of us who have been at this a while know intellectually but from time to time have a hard time remembering: there are plenty of fish in the sea. She will not be your only bite; keep fishing. Babies can say whatever they want, it doesn't make it true.
The fact that she so quickly backed off her story about the gazillionaire who bought her a private island and the natives who lived there to be her servants should be your clue that she, herself, was fishing too. When you go out and stand on the stream bank and cast into the sweet, calm pool just to the side of the riffle, the thought that's going through your head is not "I hope I hook an adequate fish." Same for the babies, I believe. She was hoping to hook a whale, and why not? They have their agenda, as do we.
So now, in my opinion, the ball is in your court. Do you want to see her again, and if so, for how long? I believe it is perfectly permissible to follow a thing through to a certain degree with no other agenda than "let's see where this goes." If something meaningful develops, great. If not, that's the way it is when you are playing in the Sugar Bowl.
Move on, my brother, but don't slam the door on this one. She may come around to a more reasonable, realistic mind-set, something she might in reality be ok with. A condo? Can't fault a baby for trying!
Scott
I know I'm a little late to the party but I had to chime in on the GPS conversation. I'm sure what I'm writing is going to make a few of you not so happy, and this doesn't apply to everyone. That being said, this is just one babies opinion.
Overall my comment is you get what you pay for, if your going into this world fairly low budget, don't expect a high quality ATF type sugar baby.
The realities of this world are yes, there guys out there willing to pay an allowance of 20k a month – although they are somewhat rare. Also, there guys willing to pay 1k. 5k a month and that's pretty standard. I would consider anything above that range is a bit high and anything below cheap.
Where the 20k girl was off is if she knows that's what she wants then she shouldn't be wasting both hers and your time talking to you if your net worth is under about 10m. Those are the only guys who are going to be able to afford what she wants. And, it's ok that she wants that – if she's patient, and she'll find it.
Now, in my mind it's not just about the allowance I'm given. I'm able to add up what a night out costs, hotel, maybe a present and then the allowance. To share personal info, I'd guess that in total Memories probably spends around $2500. $3000 a month on me and I see him once a week.
Now, that may be too high for some of you and if so just embrace that. Learn to have the budget discussion first so you know what she wants before investing a lot of time. For those hoping to spend a lower amount, it may take you a bit longer to find someone. The thing about this world is the more you're willing to spend the faster you'll get to at least meet the babies who might be what you're looking for. Of course, there's always the time it takes to find the one you actually connect with.
Now, there is another reason I have 1k as a starting point for the sugar world. Essentially, if you can't pay over that curve then a cost / return analysis shows that it would be better to be with an escort. So, if an escort costs $250 / hour. $1000 would be 4 dates. In the sugar world a $1000 allowance could get you 4 overnight dates. If you find an SB who is ok with P2P then she typically will want between $200-$500 / meet. In that respect, you're better off with an escort – same end result and you get it cheaper. So, in the larger scheme of things, it costs you less / meet to just get into that range.
Now, there was some discussion about paying less than that amount, but it also sounds like you're not ecstatic with the quality of the baby you're getting. Which brings me back to my original comment – you get what you pay for.
Oh! And, as a final thought. I just spent $100 in hair products, tanning and a new top so that I look cute and perfect for my date with memories tomorrow night. In total, I probably spend about $300 a month. Just wanted to point out that we have costs too.
Thanks for reading!
Mandy
Joe,
My input is don't negotiate. I swear I've hear the "My last SD did this" so fucking much they must teach it in a SB school somewhere. Have her put a hard number on her sugar requirement. Then you can contemplate the figure in the cool comfort of where you are reading her message. If her number is outside of your comfort zone you can always give a counter offer. But, if she feels that she has lost the negotiation you might hit it once, but she is unlikely to want to let you hit it again. And if she continues to take the lower amount, then she was playing you for a sucker from the beginning. Release your WPAD. Tear that SB pussy up. And make her put in some work!
Just remember my advice may only be as good as what you paid for it. LOL!
SubCmdr Out
SbabyBlog,
I love you to death baby, but I think you are a little off on this one. You are using the wrong metric. Cost per orgasm (CPO) is the proper measurement. CPO for an escort is higher. You are not going to find a escort for a $250 overnight. Most SB's even at the shallow end of the sugar bowl are going to spend 2. 4 hours with you for each visit even if you don't over night with them. You get to pound that thing into the mattress as much as you can during that time period. So, it would be $250 / hour to bust with an escort once maybe twice if she is generous. Or, $250 for 2. 4 hours with an SB and bust all you like. And if you happen to be into the intangible of GFE, well like the commercial says "priceless".
CPO (Escort) = $250.
CPO (SB) = $83. 33. $125. 00.
The Cmdr be runnin dem digits. Cause his pockets ain't fat.
SubCmdr Out
[QUOTE=F Scott; 1427684]Gentlemen,
I have already obtained Mandy's input on this question, so wanted to put it to the brotherhood at large. For those of you with an ATF, or a steady SB, how often do you communicate with her about things other than a calisthenics class appointment? Or in fact, do you at all? And how often do they reach out with a "touch-base" to you?
I ask because I may be way in the deep end with my ATF in terms of contacting her during our downtimes. Mandy assures me this is so, and I am not doubting her, just would like additional input.
Thanking you in advance,
Scott[/QUOTE]Hi Scott,
First, thanks for the welcome to the board and to the others that have welcomed me as well. As I mentioned my SB / SD relationship of a year ended in January. I think one of the reasons was our differing expectations of communications. As things progressed and we became closer and closer I wanted more communication than she was able to give. Although the times we were together were pretty much perfect, our only disagreements came over lack of communication to the point of her promising to see me or call or text, and then blowing me off entirely and not even recognizing it afterward. My wife did find out. We're now divorced. The ultimate came when my SB ended our relationship without closure, just stopped communicating with me enitrely. Sooo, not to be too much of a downer, but that can be the result when feelings and communication desires get out of hand. On the bright side, I'm now dusting myself off and on the hunt for a new SB.
Thanks again for the welcome and I'm happy to be part of the group!
[QUOTE=Atldrummer]My wife did find out. We're now divorced. The ultimate came when my SB ended our relationship without closure, just stopped communicating with me enitrely. Sooo, not to be too much of a downer, but that can be the result when feelings and communication desires get out of hand. On the bright side, I'm now dusting myself off and on the hunt for a new SB.[/QUOTE]If you don't mind my asking, what gave you away to the warden. If the subject is just too taboo to discuss on this board, let me know and I will understand, but we are all on here to learn techniques to make us successful in the SB adventures and keep each other out of trouble. Although you are relatively new to the board, you have some valuable information that could ultimately be the biggest help of all. By my calculations, if my warden found out about my hobby, it would likely cost me several hundred thousand dollars by the time the divorce was settled. So any information I can gather on how best to stay out of trouble is REAL valuable to me. If you don't mind sharing, I suspect the brotherhood here would be real interested in hearing your story.
Alias
I haven't participated here in a while as I've been conserving financially and not SB-ing, but I have watched with approval how the ranks here have grown and enjoyed immensely the addition Mandy has brought to the group. Good show, lady and gentlemen!
The financial aspects of this have always been an interesting subject, as has the way we and the babies dance around the issue. I'm reminded of two old racer's adages about costs: "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?", and "The best way to make a small fortune doing this is to start with a big one." Some of us cannot afford $1000 / month, much less $20K / month; we can find a SB that we *can* afford, but it usually means giving up something. She may not be quite the HYB we hoped for, maybe she's a little bit older MILF, or she might even be young, athletic and beautiful but she has more than her share of drama and problems, or some combo of these. Keeping our expectations and requirements realistic to our budget is the hardest thing we do.
I disagree w / SubCmdr that it's all about CPO, as there are things I seek in a SB, such as a level of friendship, genuine interest in me as a person rather than merely a money source, that I do not expect in an escort (tho' I have found it in a couple of the escorts I've known.) At a minimum, those extra considerations need to be factored into the cost. But I understand how some might see it as a neat CPO equation.
" If you want to look at this from purely a statistical standpoint, remember that the more she texts, e-mails, or calls you, the more opportunity there is for your communications to be discovered by someone else "
Joe speaks the truth and the more involved I find myself getting with my SB the higher the risk. As we all know, or can imagine, Finding an excuse to be away from home for an overnight is a far cry from slipping an hour with an escort into a busy day.
Escorts bring their own brand of risk, what with LE waiting to pop you at a sting operation, to STD, blackmail, etc. In the end it depends on how much of a GFE you want to have, and a SB / GF who shares monogamy with you is as good as it gets short of a real life GF.
Altdrummer suffered the ultimate penalty in discovery and subsequent divorce. I'm sorry for the pain and suffering. However, I have to wonder if in some way, those of us who play in this arena are basically not happy with our home lives, otherwise we wouldn't be here. I find it interesting that our brother drummer is looking for a SB and not an IRL GF. Perhaps a series of SBs are easier than dealing with a wife.
Thought for another day. Is marriage a viable institution? Mandy (I reference again) seems to have arrived at an ideal compromise. She seems to have her cake and eat it as well IMHO. I would love to hear some opinions about that.
[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1427962]I love you to death baby, but I think you are a little off on this one.[/QUOTE]Sorry, my writing late in the evening after working all day meant I wasn't able to articulate better what I meant there. Yes, in your short term CPO an SB will always be less expensive. But unless you're willing to get into the 1k mark, you'll not find that consistent, no-drama, ATF type which most of you seem to want. If you can't afford that, then you would be better off with an escort once or twice a month because it's certainly much less time consuming to find one of them vs. The e-mail, m&g process, that occurs just to get a baby one time. If you can afford that, then you should be able to reasonably expect that you will eventually find a decent baby that you'll form a longer relationship with.
I hate to be blunt in pointing this out, but the sugar world isn't for the cheep guy. While I agree the girls out there requesting condos, exorbitant allowances and such have a way overinflated ego which should give you more reason to run than what it is that she's requesting, I think the guys "negotiating to death and low & balling" a girl are giving the guys in the sugar world a negative perception.
As always, it's just one babies perspective though.
Mandy
[QUOTE=Hernando;1427715]I demand this of her since I want that irl gf sensation.[/QUOTE]I just wanted to explain that the main reason I told Scott he was wrong was because he was upset when she wasn't responding to him. But, given his circumstances with "the bat phone" he can't always respond to her when she texts. I completely believe that what's good for one is good for the other so if you can't participate in an "instant communication relationship" you shouldn't expect her to jump and respond to your text immediately either.
Now, I do typically text a couple times throughout the day with both Memories and The Doctor. I'll admit some mornings I shake my head at the reality of texting my husband good morning (he's at work by the time I wake up) , then sending a text to The Doctor and then Memories. Usually, if I don't text Memories by around 10, he'll send me a good morning text. Right now he's doing a lot of reading on one of the topics I'm studying in school, so this is generally part of the conversation stream. He's reading the more pop-culture executive written business books whereas I've read all the research and theory they were based on.
The Doctor rarely initiates texting with me, but will eventually respond to mine. So, the other morning when very early I received a "Good morning sweetie I hope you have a great day" text from him, well it made me smile all day.
I'm also an extremely connected person with the benefit of a very relaxed work environment. The only times I am really completely unreachable via my phone are when I'm in class. But, even then you can find me on twitter, yahoo I'm or email. When I was working, texts could go hours before I responded and then that required me remembering that I hadn't already responded. I had a boyfriend then who got upset by this. The more he whined about it, the more of a "chore" it became for me to answer him. Which actually became the impetus for ignoring his texts or calls and well you can guess we'd didn't last much longer than that.
Nando is right, every relationship is different where this is concerned. I think it's best to discuss what you want up front but realize it's not fair to ask something of someone that you can't reciprocate.
Mandy