"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Thanks for the heads up but anyone falling for a scam this lame shouldn't be on the internet at all. "Starting the arrest process"? Right cause LE always calls up people they're about to arrest. The whole thing reads like one red flag after another.

[QUOTE=YayaGogo;3712441]Just to let you all know, some scammers have recently tried to target me with the underage girl scam. Don't fall for it!

- 18 should be young enough for anyone on this board. Going younger will permanently alter your entire life as you know it.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=YayaGogo;3712441]Just to let you all know, some scammers have recently tried to target me with the underage girl scam. Don't fall for it!

Here's how it worked: An over 18 account is set up on SA which they then use to message you and move it on to text. While texting they try to get a pic from you and your name. The girl eventually sends private pics unsolicited, at which point I asked her to confirm her age. She says she's almost 17 but really into older guys yada yada. I say not interested, report her account and block her number. The next day I get a text from her 'dad' from another number saying he's going to get me arrested for child porn and to call him immediately. I'm aware of the scam and I ignore him. Later in the day I get a voicemail from a 'sheriff' in another state saying they're starting the arrest process and I should call him back immediately (to a number not matching the caller I'd) to tell my side of the story and to settle this. I googled the number on the caller I'd which was spoofed from an actual LE office in another state to make it look official, so I call back at the official number (not at the alternate number left in the VM) I ask to speak to the sheriff by name and it's a different guy that has no idea what I'm talking about. He tells me it's a very common scam on internet dating sites and such. The 'father' then texts me later on in the day saying his daughter got suspended from school and I'll be arrested if I don't speak with him, at which point I tell him I'm aware it's a scam and that LE is very interested in meeting with him and his 'daughter'. Never heard back after that but it occurred to me that some of you might be also targets of this scam and might not know what to do.

Remember:

- Use either a burner phone, GV, or both for SA communications. Scammers will cross reference your number with social media apps to find out all about you.

- Don't use your real name for SA if you can avoid it.

- Even if the age of consent in your state is 16 or 17, it's still illegal to send / receive nude pics from minors and you will be prosecuted if the complaint is legitimate.

- If someone is trying to scam you for money, don't engage them and they'll eventually go away.

- No LE will ever encourage you to 'settle' a crime for money.

- 18 should be young enough for anyone on this board. Going younger will permanently alter your entire life as you know it.[/QUOTE]Recommendations for burner phone would be appreciated Thanks CM.

[QUOTE=YayaGogo;3712441]Just to let you all know, some scammers have recently tried to target me with the underage girl scam. Don't fall for it!

Remember:

- Use either a burner phone, GV, or both for SA communications. Scammers will cross reference your number with social media apps to find out all about you.

- Don't use your real name for SA if you can avoid it.

- Even if the age of consent in your state is 16 or 17, it's still illegal to send / receive nude pics from minors and you will be prosecuted if the complaint is legitimate.

- If someone is trying to scam you for money, don't engage them and they'll eventually go away.

- No LE will ever encourage you to 'settle' a crime for money.

- 18 should be young enough for anyone on this board. Going younger will permanently alter your entire life as you know it.[/QUOTE]I've seen this scam on CL. I always ask for age. If they tell me 18 I continue the conversation as there is no way for me to know. If I am suspicious on a meet I ask for ID. I'm too old and wise to fall for thi sshit. But it's out there. I'm sure some guys fall for it otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3711645]I've written about this in the past, but I've found their relationship with their father has almost everything to do with what makes them want to date older men, and like you I try to find out family history early on because it helps me understand them, and that's good for both of us. They usually don't mind spilling the beans about this, and most of them seem pretty in touch with what made them who they are.

The most common scenario I encounter is "absent daddy syndrome" -- dad wasn't a part of their lives for whatever reason, or maybe he was a part of their lives but did not fully participate the way a father should. I'd say that's maybe 70-80%.

Second most common scenario is "tough act to follow daddy syndrome". The father spoiled his princess to such a degree that she will settle for no less than an older man who spoils, protects and provides for her as a partner.

Third scenario, and this is getting much rarer, like maybe 2-5% of the girls, is "super hard working underachieving Dad". This is not the same as family neglect through workaholism, that's still absent daddy syndrome. This is the dad that has a great work ethic and family ethic, but never really got ahead in life. Provides for his family, but never quite achieved any level of financial "comfort" for his family (had trouble keeping up with the Joneses).[/QUOTE]Understanding this and some other principles of human psychology at our age should be able to coerce these young ladies. It's not rocket science. Learn to read people.

[QUOTE=EvilTmp;3712508]Thanks for the heads up but anyone falling for a scam this lame shouldn't be on the internet at all. "Starting the arrest process"? Right cause LE always calls up people they're about to arrest. The whole thing reads like one red flag after another.[/QUOTE]Henrico called me to tell me they were issuing an arrest warrant. Told me I had till lunch time the next day to turn myself in or they'll send the Sheriff to my house to get me. Rare perhaps, but it does happen.

[QUOTE=FruitNinja;3713170]Understanding this and some other principles of human psychology at our age should be able to coerce these young ladies. It's not rocket science. Learn to read people.[/QUOTE]Yes, as Neil Strauss used to say, "game" is really just a specialization of social skills that happens to place the focus on relationships with women. For me it's not about manipulation or coercion -- getting women to do what I want them to do has never been challenging for me. I just like doing things with a clear conscience. Even though I'm effectively sport fucking, with no intention of long-standing relationships with any of these women, I'm a strong believer that there is a way to play the game without anyone getting hurt, and ideally in a way that actually leaves her life in better shape than I found it. I think that understanding their background and what makes them tick helps me to help them.

Occasionally I encounter an arrogant SB that think they have life all figured out and don't want advice (in which case I don't bother), but I've found the vast majority do want a mentor, someone to look up to, someone to help them navigate a complicated world during their early stages of life. Like I said, ADS (Absent Daddy Syndrome) is the primary culprit here. The ones who never had a strong male figure that cared about whether they succeed or went sideways, or at least never earned their respect, are the ones who are most hungry for mentorship. So, if I learn that her reasons for seeking a daddy are different from this (and maybe 20% or so of the time they are), I usually adjust all of my interactions with her accordingly.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3710655]I have actually been holding back on writing about my latest findings in the sugar world, partially because I think some of them are hard to describe without either alienating some of the audience, newcomers, or just giving the impression that I'm full of shit.

On my latest traveling-sugar binge, I did things a bit differently than I have in the past. I noticed in a LOT of profiles in various cities, many girls in the pool of SBs that I would go after are increasingly posting their interest in an arrangement that turns into a relationship, so I had an idea. What would happen if I invested a bit of time REALLY talking to each one, pouring on the game and charm, then telling them that my interest in them is way beyond the shallow confines of sugar? In line with the number you quoted above, somewhere between 6-7 out of 10 of these girls agreed to no-allowance dating (assuming we like each other at the meet)! We hear some folks say that free pussy is rare in the sugar world, I did not find this to be the case at all. Is it rare for the married guy who only wants a couple of hours in a hotel with her? Sure...it would be nearly impossible to get her to agree to do this without allowance. But what if I truly approach it the same as civy dating? What if, when I visit the girl I spend somewhere between 2-5 days with her and treat it as if I'm courting her? When I'm traveling, this is not that difficult for me to do, because when I communicate with the SO it's usually in text anyway, no need to disrupt my dating activities to answer her call and tell her how much I miss her.

Well long story short, I got a lot of "free" (or in reality very close to it) pussy. I say close to it, because in all cases I did gift something -- not because it's required but because it is important to me to establish that emotional separation, and make sure that they see me more a provider of material support than emotional support. However, the average gift came out to under $200 per overnighter date -- probably $150 on average. Not just overnighter but random afternoon fucks throughout the day in many cases. Now I did spend quite a bit on entertainment, but a lot of that was my own indulgence and certainly something I wanted to do. This is why I don't feel like dinner or dating expenses count when tallying up the total cost -- because she is not merely extracting money from me for her own gain, she is simply enjoying my company doing the same things I do (eat good food and drink etc), and therefore it's just a normal dating expense, in my mind at least. It's amazing how many of these girls just appreciate a good time and an escape from their otherwise dull lives!

Now the bad (and this is what you alluded to as well). It is pretty much impossible to do the above without expecting some clingers! All of the ones that I went overnight with did become somewhat clingy. I had one that was particularly memorable -- I stayed an entire workweek with her, and I think we fucked 15-16 times during that period, she was probably one of the more prolific nymphos I've ever met. She very quickly dismissed the idea of receiving allowance, and told me I was more of a "normal dating find" for her than what she expected in an SD, and yes when someone half your age says that, and is fucking your brains out, it does stroke your ego a bit and it's kind of hard to just pack up the suitcases and say goodbye. By day three she claims she loved me and I pretended like she never said it. She was already making all these delusional future plans for us, I mostly just bit my lip and tried to enjoy the eye candy and sex and just let on like I'm not really thinking too far in the future yet. And yes, the more resistent you are to her advances, the more she can sense it and the more of a turn on and challenge it is for her, so she keeps trying. A few times she exhibited nutty behaviors I would describe as bipolar symptoms, getting instantly furious at me for small things, random triggered, then letting her anger dissipate in a matter of seconds and returning to normal. I'm also aware that she was taking meds for some of her issues, meds that specifically warn against mixing with alcohol, yet she was doing it anyway. After I left, it took a few days to fully get rid of her, but I should be in the clear on that one as long as no paternity bullshit arises (I never use condoms). I really think 2-3 days with a girl is the maximum I want to go in the future after my recent experience. She was sad about the break up for a few days, but seems okay now and I'm sure she has probably already invoked her magical (bipolar) powers on another SD out there by now.

Bottom line is, there is something to be said for making sure that allowance or a financial arrangement is standing between you and any emotional expectation of the girl. They are human, and if they are truly attracted to their SD (which most true SBs probably are), they are quite prone to becoming attached. I think I made it worse this time by deemphasizing the financial aspect of arrangement and encouraging them to look past money even before the first M&G.

On the flip side, if I had just stuck to 18-20 year olds, I probably would not have had this problem. Its mostly the 24+ year olds that have started really thinking about their future, decided that they want a stable provider first and foremost, and if you are unmarried and have no kids (or they think you are), then you are a prime target for them. It then becomes a game of trying to have as much fun as possible without trampling on anyone's feelings or worsening the struggles that they already have. I always aim to leave them in better shape than I met them, whatever that means. I'm not sure I always succeed, but I do try.[/QUOTE]I would say about half my babies ended up not really wanting an allowance or much of an allowance and usually fairly quickly into things. For the record, I am near 50 years of age, but like you, have been a fitness guru all my life and could likely pass for 36-38 in most all cases. I was into bodybuilding for years and have a psychic most 20-somethings might envy. Most girls are shocked when my clothes come off and will say things like, and get visibly excited "WTF, I get to fuck a real man, your so sexy, you're older, but like one of those super hot older guys I've fantasized about, you're biggest and strongest guy over been with (not my dick, my body, although that ain't small either. Haha) just random comments every time. It pays to keep yourself up in this game. My real downside is alcohol. I like to drink with these girls and lower both mine and their inhibitions. Better sex, more open, more fun anything goes once they and I are buzzed and for the past few years, I've been drinking a bit excessively because of this. But you know what? There are worse things in life. I never do drugs and I figure this is my one vise.

As for the crazies, I'm working with one who has her PhD. Smart as fuck, but also borderline personality disorder, sees a shrink all week and is legit insane. I have tried to help this girl, but she is not fixable, just a total lost cause, but she is so so so fun in the sack when her insanity does come out with sex. She is open for everything and loves being submissive. Again, I would say most of these girls are at the very lest unstable or they wouldn't be there. That said, it is true, the more crazy, the better the sex and nothing has rang more true in the bowl.

I have made many mistakes in the bowl and cost myself some serious grief over the years, but I would not trade my overall experiences for anything.

[QUOTE=CandyMan555;3712929]Recommendations for burner phone would be appreciated Thanks CM.[/QUOTE]Not sure what the deals are now, but a couple of years ago, bought a small-med smart phone for $30 from MetroPCS and got a plan that was $30/ month: 1 Gig 4 GLTEe and unlimited 3 GLTE after that. Unlimited talk, text too. For a hobby phone that is fine, never get into the 3 G speed and it wouldn't matter anyway. There are about 12 stores around my area so I stop in a different one each month on a random basis and fork over $30 cash for the minutes. One can buy cards at Walmart, but Wally charges a 1. 95 fee or something. Then you have to enter a LONG string of digits or call. So it is easier to just stop in & pay cash.

Lots of girls have Cricket, so that must be a cheap option. Years ago there were chick-let phones and you bought cards for the minutes at 25-cents a minute. WAY too expensive and the minutes expire after a month or two.

You don't need all of the features, so a stripped down basic phone model is what to look for.

Oh and don't forget to layer Google Voice on top of that!

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3713590]Not sure what the deals are now, but a couple of years ago, bought a small-med smart phone for $30 from MetroPCS and got a plan that was $30/ month: 1 Gig 4 GLTEe and unlimited 3 GLTE after that. Unlimited talk, text too. For a hobby phone that is fine, never get into the 3 G speed and it wouldn't matter anyway. There are about 12 stores around my area so I stop in a different one each month on a random basis and fork over $30 cash for the minutes. One can buy cards at Walmart, but Wally charges a 1. 95 fee or something. Then you have to enter a LONG string of digits or call. So it is easier to just stop in & pay cash.

Lots of girls have Cricket, so that must be a cheap option. Years ago there were chick-let phones and you bought cards for the minutes at 25-cents a minute. WAY too expensive and the minutes expire after a month or two.

You don't need all of the features, so a stripped down basic phone model is what to look for.

Oh and don't forget to layer Google Voice on top of that![/QUOTE]I have a TracFone smartphone I bought at Walmart, Target, somesuch, for cash. Made by ZTE, whatever that is. I have apps on it, like kik (very popular these days), snapchat, hotelsbyday. It is an Android phone, cost about $30. The good thing is that you can establish a TracFone account on the web w / your sugar name and manage the phone. That includes putting more minutes or texts or MB on the phone. Unlike buying a card in a 7-11, which has a stiff tax in California, I have been able to buy texts with just a prepaid OneVanilla debit card (1000 texts for $5). I had one of these before, then had to be out of the bowl for a while, ditched my old one. I get the new one, initialize it with the old phone #, and all my credit is still there. This seems pretty foolproof. I'd appreciate pointers from anyone who knows a lot about Android as to how to do other bowl tricks wt / the phone.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3714947]I have a TracFone smartphone I bought at Walmart, Target, somesuch, for cash. Made by ZTE, whatever that is. I have apps on it, like kik (very popular these days), snapchat, hotelsbyday. It is an Android phone, cost about $30. The good thing is that you can establish a TracFone account on the web w / your sugar name and manage the phone. That includes putting more minutes or texts or MB on the phone. Unlike buying a card in a 7-11, which has a stiff tax in California, I have been able to buy texts with just a prepaid OneVanilla debit card (1000 texts for $5). I had one of these before, then had to be out of the bowl for a while, ditched my old one. I get the new one, initialize it with the old phone #, and all my credit is still there. This seems pretty foolproof. I'd appreciate pointers from anyone who knows a lot about Android as to how to do other bowl tricks wt / the phone.[/QUOTE]I either use a google voice number. It's an app that you can get a number for. Costs $0. You can make and get calls, send texts, not sure how to send images but I haven't spent the time to figure a bug out. I'm sure it's simple.

I have a biz phone and a personal phone so I a lot of times give them my personal. What are they going to do. I'm not married. I check age. I don't talk $$.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3713411]I've found the vast majority do want a mentor, someone to look up to, someone to help them navigate a complicated world during their early stages of life. Like I said, ADS (Absent Daddy Syndrome) is the primary culprit here. The ones who never had a strong male figure that cared about whether they succeed or went sideways, or at least never earned their respect, are the ones who are most hungry for mentorship. So, if I learn that her reasons for seeking a daddy are different from this (and maybe 20% or so of the time they are), I usually adjust all of my interactions with her accordingly.[/QUOTE]Another example of this. Girls who were adopted. I know a number of psychologists, and they say that being adopted is something most people never get over. It's a very visceral thing to know that your birth parents 'didn't want you', though of course there are many reasons for parents to give a baby up for adoption. For example, I met a POT today. I found her on a site called Pantydeal, it is mostly for girls to sell pics / vids / panties, but they can check off 'escort'. This 19 YO mixed college girl turned out to be local so we did the M&G this morning. I already knew she was smart and mature, but today she mentions both she and her sib were adopted. After the tea, sitting in my car, I ask her about liking 'her man to be in charge in the bedroom', and she readily agreed. A little more chit-chat and I give her a test. I ask her to kiss me, and she readily digs in. IK now this girl has all the makings of a great SB, she'll be submissive and love it. No discussion of allowance, I always defer that as long as possible.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3717046]Another example of this. Girls who were adopted. I know a number of psychologists, and they say that being adopted is something most people never get over. It's a very visceral thing to know that your birth parents 'didn't want you', though of course there are many reasons for parents to give a baby up for adoption. For example, I met a POT today. I found her on a site called Pantydeal, it is mostly for girls to sell pics / vids / panties, but they can check off 'escort'. This 19 YO mixed college girl turned out to be local so we did the M&G this morning. I already knew she was smart and mature, but today she mentions both she and her sib were adopted. After the tea, sitting in my car, I ask her about liking 'her man to be in charge in the bedroom', and she readily agreed. A little more chit-chat and I give her a test. I ask her to kiss me, and she readily digs in. IK now this girl has all the makings of a great SB, she'll be submissive and love it. No discussion of allowance, I always defer that as long as possible.[/QUOTE]I agree with the delaying of the sugar talk as long as possible. I am seeing a smaller bbw single 40 yr old right now that we have never discussed any type of allowance but she has never mentioned the $$ I give her each time, which I always put in her purse where she can see it. We usually do dinner and / or some light shopping and then to the FC where she has spent the night twice. Very responsive and really seems to enjoy our time together.

Hey guys,

I posted this on Boston but there is more activity here, I'm new to posting here but I've browsed this site quite a bit over the last few years. I joined SA a few months ago and have had no problem meeting or talking to women on there. Some of the women I've met or talked to were semi-pros so everything was pretty straight forward with the negotiation. Early on I came across a divorced mom who was crept out by the thought of taking any money. Things have sort of run their course with her and I've been searching again. I know its rare that you find someone on there that doesn't want anything aside from having a good time and being treated nice, and I am afraid I'm ruined with my next negotiation. I met a new woman who is in an open relationship and apparently her husband is fine with it and having his fun as well. We've met for a very quick coffee and had lunch. At the end of lunch the discussion of money came up so I started where I always start around $$ and mentioned in the past that I've never really had a detailed conversation about dollar amounts (partly true) and if we don't discuss money I normally just put $$ in a card and have never had complaints. I could tell by her body language that she isn't interested in being in that range but she refuses to say what she is looking for. Normally I would just move on but we hit it off and she is incredibly attractive with what I would say is a 9 face and 10 body. Needless to say while this is not my first rodeo I feel like I need some help from those of you who have more experience. I was interested in trying SA because I was getting tired with the pros and constantly checking to see who was in town every week and if it lined up with my schedule.

Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated!

[QUOTE=Ganzi;3717903]Hey guys,

I posted this on Boston but there is more activity here, I'm new to posting here but I've browsed this site quite a bit over the last few years. I joined SA a few months ago and have had no problem meeting or talking to women on there. Some of the women I've met or talked to were semi-pros so everything was pretty straight forward with the negotiation. Early on I came across a divorced mom who was crept out by the thought of taking any money. Things have sort of run their course with her and I've been searching again. I know its rare that you find someone on there that doesn't want anything aside from having a good time and being treated nice, and I am afraid I'm ruined with my next negotiation. I met a new woman who is in an open relationship and apparently her husband is fine with it and having his fun as well. We've met for a very quick coffee and had lunch. At the end of lunch the discussion of money came up so I started where I always start around $$ and mentioned in the past that I've never really had a detailed conversation about dollar amounts (partly true) and if we don't discuss money I normally just put $$ in a card and have never had complaints. I could tell by her body language that she isn't interested in being in that range but she refuses to say what she is looking for. Normally I would just move on but we hit it off and she is incredibly attractive with what I would say is a 9 face and 10 body. Needless to say while this is not my first rodeo I feel like I need some help from those of you who have more experience. I was interested in trying SA because I was getting tired with the pros and constantly checking to see who was in town every week and if it lined up with my schedule.

Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated![/QUOTE]If you want lots of tips on how to get them to the FC without ever talking about money up front, just search on all the posts for my user-name in this thread. It will take a bit of reading because many of the posts are detailed, but I've posted tons of tips here.

During my last sugaring vacation I did some experimenting, everything from seeing how many girls I could get to agree to date me no sugar at all before the M&G even happened, to also seeing how they react to various low ball offers combined with different personality tactics. I got lots of girls that agreed to free, or in some cases much lower than they ever planned on going when they joined SA I'm sure.

One sent me a nice video clip of her masturbating, asked me how much her allowance was going to be when we met. I said "a hundred bucks if we stay overnight" experimentally, but before I did I spent probably a couple of hours of back and forth texts getting her warmed up and invested in knowing me a bit. When I texted the amount I thought I lost her because about 15 minutes went by with no response. Then she said "Hmmm. Would it be okay if we started out with two hundred per visit?" And I said no, and that I was going to put her over my knee and give her a firm spanking for questioning daddy's decision. That sent her over the edge (in a good way) and triggered something in her that made her want me even more! She said she will love anything daddy gives her. LOL. She later said she didn't care what I give anything is fine. Oddly enough I never met her, simply because I had a list of higher priority POTS, but I think I should drive 1. 5 hours to meet her one of these days, I do text her occasionally and she is still eager to meet.

My point here is that she just happened to be one of those who are attracted to dominance, so the idea of spanking her little ass for attempting to negotiate with me was a huge turn on for her.

So you might try telling them how it is going to be -- it won't work on all of them, but you can always back off a little if you see it isn't working. You will lose a few but often they are the ones you want to lose anyway. Also sometimes when you exert dominance, their initial reaction is to run away, but a lot of them realize that's what they want later and come crawling back for another try.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3717046]Another example of this. Girls who were adopted. I know a number of psychologists, and they say that being adopted is something most people never get over. It's a very visceral thing to know that your birth parents 'didn't want you', though of course there are many reasons for parents to give a baby up for adoption. For example, I met a POT today. I found her on a site called Pantydeal, it is mostly for girls to sell pics / vids / panties, but they can check off 'escort'. This 19 YO mixed college girl turned out to be local so we did the M&G this morning. I already knew she was smart and mature, but today she mentions both she and her sib were adopted. After the tea, sitting in my car, I ask her about liking 'her man to be in charge in the bedroom', and she readily agreed. A little more chit-chat and I give her a test. I ask her to kiss me, and she readily digs in. IK now this girl has all the makings of a great SB, she'll be submissive and love it. No discussion of allowance, I always defer that as long as possible.[/QUOTE]Sometimes I think we should start an alternative thread to discuss possible alternative methods of finding SBs. There have been some good posts here in the past, but those conversations are never easy to find unless indexed. It would be great to know all the things SDs do to find SBs off the beaten path.

One of my favorites is to go SB shopping at strip clubs. These girls are usually fascinated by the idea, and its not uncommon for it to result in takeout that night, or a phone number for another night etc. A lot of them tell me they already had a profile on SA at one time but just didn't find what they were looking for. The reason I like doing this with strippers is that I can see and talk to them first (no worries about catfish or inordinately flattering selfies) so its very time efficient. The only downside is that some of them may expect you to spend a lot of money on them right there in the club if you're an SD, which I personally don't like to do.

Question about Pantydeal -- did the site give you an indication where she was geographically before you contacted her? The first thing that came to my mind (since I'm usually sugaring in select cities) is how do I see the ones within a given travel radius of a particular city? Without that kind of search ability, it would eat up tons of my time.