The Prickyard

[QUOTE=TonyJohnson;3127378]Raining outside and not feeling in the mood to do anything.

And a thought came up and I am just asking:

Would you bateback (fs) with a provider and in what scenario or never?[/QUOTE]NO.

No.

No.

[QUOTE=DuggerJug;3136316]You deserve at least a "nice try" for your efforts. We mongers are often portrayed by the media and others as being part of the addiction / human trafficking problem. We are not all heartless.[/QUOTE]This is why FF and I repeatedly seem to beat our heads on the wall about seeing the addicts. Yes we are not heartless (well most of us). We are good people. So are the vast majority of providers. The problem is they are controlled by their addictions. In this regard, if we support those providers we are part of the problem. By seeing them, we are enabling that addiction through donations. Take the recent reports on Beauty. When she showed up there were some signs but she seemed to have her shit together. Now she is getting business and $ and the reports just get worse and worse with reports of heavier usage. As a single monger, not seeing a provider will not solve her addiction but you are not making it worse and have that peace of mind!

During my tenure in the hobby I had multiple relationships / friendships with providers suffering from one form of addiction or another. At the point where the truth finally came out I was always told they feared being written off if I knew. Once the full truth is out, progress can be made if they desire.

Sincerely Signed,
The Biggest Prick in the Yard.

[QUOTE=Scott4020;3136068]NO.

No.

No.[/QUOTE]Not saying it is you but everyone says no. Truth is many mongers even on this board do it but do not admit it. About a year ago, a highly sought-after provider contracted an STD thru non-hobby play. When it got out, a crazy number of mongers raced out their respective doors to get checked with a large number of them acknowledging bb to me directly.

Moral of the story is play smart and make your own choice because what you read may or may not be the truth.

Sincerely Signed,
The Biggest Prick in the Yard.

[QUOTE=IndyGuy123;3136501]This is why FF and I repeatedly seem to beat our heads on the wall about seeing the addicts. Yes we are not heartless (well most of us). We are good people. So are the vast majority of providers. The problem is they are controlled by their addictions. In this regard, if we support those providers we are part of the problem. By seeing them, we are enabling that addiction through donations. Take the recent reports on Beauty. When she showed up there were some signs but she seemed to have her shit together. Now she is getting business and $ and the reports just get worse and worse with reports of heavier usage. As a single monger, not seeing a provider will not solve her addiction but you are not making it worse and have that peace of mind!

During my tenure in the hobby I had multiple relationships / friendships with providers suffering from one form of addiction or another. At the point where the truth finally came out I was always told they feared being written off if I knew. Once the full truth is out, progress can be made if they desire.

Sincerely Signed,
The Biggest Prick in the Yard.[/QUOTE]Indeed, enabling an addict is another word for murder. For if we shelter the addict / alcoholic from the pain they should be feeling, they have less reason to seek help. But evidence shows conclusively that every day spent in lock-up / jail / prison is a day with a good chance of relapse. So what I sought to do was not enable her, but to keep her out of jail pending trial while in the interim maneuvering her into treatment as part of the agreement with an attorney friend of mine. There are no easy solutions to these problems. I accept the criticisms leveled at me for my choices. But I stand by them.

[QUOTE=MonsieurRobert;3136587]Indeed, enabling an addict is another word for murder.[/QUOTE]Enabling an addict is just that, enabling an addict, and the enabler is just as sick as the addict.

Murder would be something else entirely.

In Indiana this is murder;.

[QUOTE]A person commits murder if he or she does any of the following:

Intentionally kills another human being
Kills another person while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, kidnapping, rape, robbery, human or sex trafficking, carjacking, or narcotic or meth dealing or manufacturing (the "felony murder rule")
Intentionally kills a fetus that has attained viability[/QUOTE]I guess if the enabling included injecting them with the shot that killed them then yeah that would probably make it murder. Otherwise nope, not murder.

[QUOTE=IndyGuy123;3136516]Not saying it is you but everyone says no. Truth is many mongers even on this board do it but do not admit it. About a year ago, a highly sought-after provider contracted an STD thru non-hobby play. When it got out, a crazy number of mongers raced out their respective doors to get checked with a large number of them acknowledging bb to me directly.

Moral of the story is play smart and make your own choice because what you read may or may not be the truth.

Sincerely Signed,
The Biggest Prick in the Yard.[/QUOTE]And very truthful on denial on BOTH sides of the isle. Choose your ladies wisely and your men equally so ladies JMO.

[QUOTE=MonsieurRobert;3136587]There are no easy solutions to these problems. I accept the criticisms leveled at me for my choices. But I stand by them.[/QUOTE]Not faulting you for your efforts at all. There is a big difference in your story and my intended point of seeing active users and further enabling their addictions. Your story is the difficult one of short term loses in effort for the long term victory.

A good friend and I have had the discussion multiple times on the difficulty of going thru this from our side. It can be physically and worse emotionally draining.

Sincerely Signed,
The Biggest Prick in the Yard.

[QUOTE=MonsieurRobert;3136071]I have nearly two decades in recovery and remember how completely my life was but a web of lies all meant to maintain access to my drug of choice. Bourbon. I should know better, especially given my own history. But something in me sees the suffering of a dope sick addict and for some reason I can no more let her lie there in misery than I could ignore a drowning child -- for in a very real sense, that's what she is. That's just the unfortunate way I'm wired I guess.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MonsieurRobert;3136587]Indeed, enabling an addict is another word for murder. For if we shelter the addict / alcoholic from the pain they should be feeling, they have less reason to seek help. But evidence shows conclusively that every day spent in lock-up / jail / prison is a day with a good chance of relapse. So what I sought to do was not enable her, but to keep her out of jail pending trial while in the interim maneuvering her into treatment as part of the agreement with an attorney friend of mine. There are no easy solutions to these problems. I accept the criticisms leveled at me for my choices. But I stand by them.[/QUOTE]A2 is right, enabling an addict is not murder. It could possibly be considered assisted suicide because it's the addicts choice to use and the enablers choice to assist in the addicts continued drug abuse. You had a choice to make and your choice in my mind shows that you are an important part of humanity. Based on your own experiences it also shows that you were trying to give back which is an important part of being a recovering addict, helping other addicts. For this I commend you!

There are those in the hobby who hold the hobby creed very close to the vest [B]We pay them for sex and for them to leave[/B]. I have no problem with those that do. They get more pussy for the $ and much less headaches. I for one have not done that in some cases. All anyone has to do is read the story about Ursula the Sea Witch to know where my humanity sometimes leads me. In that story I did some things wrong, just like you may have with your situation. We just made the choice to not follow the hobby creed.

I fell in love with an addict and couldn't help her until she finally decided to help herself. I made the choice to not enable her anymore and she then made the choice to change partially because she hit rock bottom after I said my goodbyes and left. Once she made the choice to change I supported her efforts throughout her rehab and we became a couple and we were engaged to be married. She is gone now but she died clean. It can happen, addicts can make the right choices. If I had never tried to help then she would have been gone a long time ago. She made a choice for change and I made the choice to no longer enable her but to support her recovery. It's a fine line between enabling and support especially when one believes in the graces of humanity.

[QUOTE=FreckleFreak;3136925]A2 is right, enabling an addict is not murder. It could possibly be considered assisted suicide because it's the addicts choice to use and the enablers choice to assist in the addicts continued drug abuse. You had a choice to make and your choice in my mind shows that you are an important part of humanity. Based on your own experiences it also shows that you were trying to give back which is an important part of being a recovering addict, helping other addicts. For this I commend you!

There are those in the hobby who hold the hobby creed very close to the vest [B]We pay them for sex and for them to leave[/B]. I have no problem with those that do. They get more pussy for the $ and much less headaches. I for one have not done that in some cases. All anyone has to do is read the story about Ursula the Sea Witch to know where my humanity sometimes leads me. In that story I did some things wrong, just like you may have with your situation. We just made the choice to not follow the hobby creed.

I fell in love with an addict and couldn't help her until she finally decided to help herself. I made the choice to not enable her anymore and she then made the choice to change partially because she hit rock bottom after I said my goodbyes and left. Once she made the choice to change I supported her efforts throughout her rehab and we became a couple and we were engaged to be married. She is gone now but she died clean. It can happen, addicts can make the right choices. If I had never tried to help then she would have been gone a long time ago. She made a choice for change and I made the choice to no longer enable her but to support her recovery. It's a fine line between enabling and support especially when one believes in the graces of humanity.[/QUOTE]Good god there are so many unhappy endings to addiction stories. Thank you for sharing with me that experience. I think I may find it tougher than some to prevent various emotional attachments from developing with the providers I've been with. Sounds like you suffer the same character trait (flaw? It means I expose myself to exploitation more than others, but the heart wants what the heart wants.

Peace to us all.

[QUOTE=FreckleFreak;3136925]because it's the addicts choice to use [/QUOTE]FF, I think you're a good man with a good heart so I'm 100% not busting your balls here.

Addicts don't choose to use, they are addicts because they [B]HAVE[/B] to use. It's why it's impossible to have a real relationship with an addict, the dopes always going to be first. They get clean for a lot of reasons, I've been clean forever any why that happens to anybody, myself included, remains a mystery to me.

I jumped in because the brother said enabling is murder. It's not, and I said so. That doesn't mean I encourage enabling, it's just not murder.

The chick you were talking about probably did get better because without your support she got closer to the effects of her addiction.

I said I don't know why anybody gets clean and I don't but generally speaking it involves a lot of pain, a whole fuckload of pain. A man once told me a long, long, very fucking LONG time ago that no addict gets clean until the cost of using gets greater than the pleasure or relief that using gives them. I think he was right about that. I don't think that's the whole story of why it happens but I think he was 100% right in what he said.

The really hard part about not enabling is sometimes they die. It's not a kids game.

A2.

[QUOTE=MonsieurRobert;3137311]Good god there are so many unhappy endings to addiction stories. Thank you for sharing with me that experience. I think I may find it tougher than some to prevent various emotional attachments from developing with the providers I've been with. Sounds like you suffer the same character trait (flaw? It means I expose myself to exploitation more than others, but the heart wants what the heart wants.

Peace to us all.[/QUOTE]That special connection we do not have at home which can lead to seeking a GF / BF in this. Others can just get by with just the physical hookup. Either way the human side comes into play and causes us to try and "help" by showing we care and that can be where the problems / trouble steps in. I am sure we all have tried to help or ladies have wanted something more than just a brief interlude. It is a slippery slope depending on all the variables that come into play. We are for the most part all human and need that interaction that is more than just s*x. JMO.

[QUOTE=IndyGuy123;3136813]Not faulting you for your efforts at all. There is a big difference in your story and my intended point of seeing active users and further enabling their addictions. Your story is the difficult one of short term loses in effort for the long term victory.

A good friend and I have had the discussion multiple times on the difficulty of going thru this from our side. It can be physically and worse emotionally draining.

Sincerely Signed,
The Biggest Prick in the Yard.[/QUOTE]It's hard not to enable someone because you love them and care for them and not want them suffering. That's the mindset that is sometimes used to justify enabling. Hearts get in the way instead of the brain sometimes and even though it's a well intention the truth is that we are just hurting them more in the process.

I see it everyday at work. (No not this part time job LOL) OD 's, people that pass away and 9/10 times I hear the same thing from family members and friends, " they didn't think it was that bad " and I'm not sure if they try to convince themselves of that or if they simply were obvious. They always say the same things. What could I have done or why didn't I see this? In reality there was nothing they could do. You can NOT make someone change if they are not ready.

Addicts are getting younger and younger and the truth is that it's always going to be around.

I see if first hand and it tears my heart out when I see someone that just OD 3 hours prior check them selves out and know where they are going and there is a chance that I'm going to see them right back either in the same condition or worse. Whether they are a stranger or simply someone you care for the feeling is the same. Feeling of being helpless and knowing there is nothing you can do until they want it.

I used to reach constantly to people. To get them the resources for help and point them in the right direction but as A2 pointed out and I agree wholeheartedly that it's not that they choose to keep being addicts, it's their mind and body telling them it's the ONLY thing important. They HAVE to have the drug and only thing that is going to keep them surviving. Some are just not ready to dig deep inside them selves and really go thru the pain of why they started in the first place. Sometimes that is too much for someone to truly bare.

When I started doing this part time I truly started simply because I enjoy it. I have been " schooled " into what a dark world this can be. I have said this time and time again. I'm lucky that I have never had to deal with addiction personally but I have seen friends struggle with addiction and have seen what it does to family and friends. I also have friends that have been able to become sober and remain and I have had friends that the addiction has taken their life's.

I applaud some of you. Your compassion and the kindness of sharing on the forum of personal experiences in hopes of it being heard is commendable. It comes from a place that unfortunately in today's society that more people are worried about what they can do for themselves or simply don't care if a provider is addicted perhaps that's the mongers addiction of playing Russian roulette every time they schedule with an addicts to see if they are going to be robbed, contract something, or worse be in a position where that provider OD's during. Time and time again certain members on this board who have hearts of gold have warned and continue to send their personal opinions of enabling but as we all know that unfortunately drugs and drug use is not going to go away and some members will think with their cock instead of their head. (come on we all know it happens LOL) .

Indianapolis is going to start giving people Narcan kits free so if they are around someone that OD's they themselves can administer instead of waiting for EMT or emergency personal to arrive. Everyone that wants one has to sit thru training. I have mixed reviews on this. It's simply band aiding a continued epidemic however it's a start.

[QUOTE=Mmgeg;3137926]Indianapolis is going to start giving people Narcan kits free so if they are around someone that OD's they themselves can administer instead of waiting for EMT or emergency personal to arrive. Everyone that wants one has to sit thru training. I have mixed reviews on this. It's simply band aiding a continued epidemic however it's a start.[/QUOTE]It's only a band aid, but its far, far better than promoting abstinence, which is simply unrealistic.

[QUOTE=Admin2;3137543]FF, I think you're a good man with a good heart so I'm 100% not busting your balls here.

Addicts don't choose to use, they are addicts because they [B]HAVE[/B] to use. It's why it's impossible to have a real relationship with an addict, the dopes always going to be first. They get clean for a lot of reasons, I've been clean forever any why that happens to anybody, myself included, remains a mystery to me.

I jumped in because the brother said enabling is murder. It's not, and I said so. That doesn't mean I encourage enabling, it's just not murder.

The chick you were talking about probably did get better because without your support she got closer to the effects of her addiction.

I said I don't know why anybody gets clean and I don't but generally speaking it involves a lot of pain, a whole fuckload of pain. A man once told me a long, long, very fucking LONG time ago that no addict gets clean until the cost of using gets greater than the pleasure or relief that using gives them. I think he was right about that. I don't think that's the whole story of why it happens but I think he was 100% right in what he said.

The really hard part about not enabling is sometimes they die. It's not a kids game.

A2.[/QUOTE]An addict choses to use the first time or first few times, then once hooked they as you said [B]"HAVE to Use"[/B]. My point is they can and must choose not to use if they want to get clean. No matter what [B]ANYONE[/B] says or does to try and stop an addict from using, they will continue to "have to use" until they finally make the choice to stop. My deceased fiance came to me and said "I can't do this anymore, it's going to kill me and if I don't stop then I will die and I'm not ready to die". She made the [B]Choice to Stop[/B]. She did this even with all the pain she still had that caused her to start. The fear of death by using was greater than the other fears that she later learned to overcome and deal with. Once she was clean she always said. "I have one more relapse in me, but I don't have any more recoveries". Her cost of using finally had become greater than the pleasure or relief that using gave her.

Addicts don't choose to be addicts anymore than people with cancer choose to have cancer. Addiction is a disease not a choice. The only choice is finally believing that becoming clean is less painful than using. That is what I meant by choice. If they never choose to become clean then they will perish in a life of addiction. Many never make the choice to become clean.

Enablers come in all types. I was an enabler and made the choice to no longer enable. A2, I never thought you believed in enabling and you are right enabling is not murder. Enabling could be considered assisted suicide. Addicts don't choose to die but most realize that if they don't stop it will kill them. Many don't stop because they don't see death as something close to them or they don't care if they die. Many wish they were dead because the pain of using is so great and doesn't always relieve the pain that started them to use, thus that makes them wish they were dead.

Until the government, society and health care providers see addiction as a major cancer and treat it in the same urgency then addicts will always just be junkies to the main stream society and have few choices. Once again Addiction is a disease, not a choice!

I was wondering what can we do to assist these known addicts? Should I contact that particular provider & inform her I can't meet her until I know she has saught help? Just doing nothing seems wrong because someone else is certainly going to pay them repeated visits.

I met a provider over a year ago and simply adored the ground she walked on. Yeah, I broke the unwritten rule. I was green about the addiction problem then as well. As time passed I finally got the truth out of her. She felt I wouldn't see her anymore if I knew the truth. I tried my best to help her out. Eliminating the donations, but being there for her in other ways. Long story short she was put up in Uncles house for a stint. Once out she contacted me, I found out she was over 6 months sober and surprisingly doing well. I fear she might fall back though, contact has been patchy at best and I don't want to tempt her with donations.
The worst part is not knowing if you're enabling.

I was going to schedule a trip to Beauty land but after learning more I will pass.

And I thought the Prickyard was all about lashing out. Huh, lot of big hearts on this forum.