Strip Club Reports

[QUOTE=OfficeHo;5926630]There is Colombian Paula, lighter skin, speaks perfect English and has been there for a thousand years. She has been at teddies, are place, keystone, pleasant moments and even Harry's. And she bartends some nights. Great girl. And Dominican Paula. Darker skin, no English great natural body, nice person but very boring. Enjoy O.[/QUOTE]Yep, I know the Colombian Paola and had many good times with her. Not a fan of her fake chest but her butt is world class in my opinion! The Paola I met the other day was exactly as you described.

Pm has been pretty crazy the last few times I've been. LOTS of new faces all over. Went yesterday for a bit and for a Tues. Afternoon it was jamming.

[QUOTE=MadPlaid;5936171]Pm has been pretty crazy the last few times I've been. LOTS of new faces all over. Went yesterday for a bit and for a Tues. Afternoon it was jamming.[/QUOTE]Definitely a lot of talent but not all great in the back. Went with a Brazilian w long black hair maybe stefania was her name? Very pretty and friendly up front but in back very businesslike, quick CBJ then main event where baby damage revealed. Plenty of others to do instead.

[QUOTE=MadPlaid;5936171]Pm has been pretty crazy the last few times I've been. LOTS of new faces all over. Went yesterday for a bit and for a Tues. Afternoon it was jamming.[/QUOTE]Has anyone had the extremely pretty doll faced Chic at PMs. I never can get next to her because all the Mexicans want to lock her down and be here stripper husband. Dudes will lock her down for hrs with going to the back. I mean what the f could they be sitting there talking about. Any she is really pretty with long black straight black hair. She always either sitting at the bar on lockdown or in the back. She never makes a full revolution around the bar without someone locking her down.

[QUOTE=JoeMiami;5944455]Has anyone had the extremely pretty doll faced Chic at PMs. I never can get next to her because all the Mexicans want to lock her down and be here stripper husband. Dudes will lock her down for hrs with going to the back. I mean what the f could they be sitting there talking about. Any she is really pretty with long black straight black hair. She always either sitting at the bar on lockdown or in the back. She never makes a full revolution around the bar without someone locking her down.[/QUOTE]Just walk straight up to her. Politely interrupt and show her some money. She will come right over to you. Some of these girls are just not hustler enough. So you will have to do the hustle. Enjoy O.

[QUOTE=JoeMiami;5944455]Has anyone had the extremely pretty doll faced Chic at PMs. I never can get next to her because all the Mexicans want to lock her down and be here stripper husband. Dudes will lock her down for hrs with going to the back. I mean what the f could they be sitting there talking about. Any she is really pretty with long black straight black hair. She always either sitting at the bar on lockdown or in the back. She never makes a full revolution around the bar without someone locking her down.[/QUOTE]If you really want a girl and they try to lock her down just make eye contact and give a wink. If she is tired of sitting and wants to make some cash she will get up and come over. That's how I do it most of the time. If she makes eye contact and shows no interest then I won't bother anyway because it prob won't be fun.

Is she dark, light, etc? I wonder if it's the Panamanian girl Paola. If so she's a lot of fun.

If doll face is the description then I'd say my personal fav pearla but her hair is wavy, dark and she very light skinned.

What are her details?

We need details like shift / day of the week / outfit and a more comprehensive description or we are all guessing.

Pearla is internet model type gorgeous but I haven't seen her there in awhile. She must be another that is weekends only.

I'm usually successful with prying girls away from conversationalists with a quick backroom interrupt but I've failed at times. There are guys who spend mad money just to sit and talk. I don't know their business but some will have a harem and easily blow through a grand in an hour. No bullshit, I've seen it and the girls won't walk away for your sixty / eighty when he is giving each one of them two hundred and cognac just for their company. Those are the outliers, for the most part it's a combination of laziness and familiarity talking with someone in their native language. It's like being in a Southern Country in there. That's why I constantly hone my Spanish and drink Corona LOL.

[QUOTE=MadPlaid;5945085]If you really want a girl and they try to lock her down just make eye contact and give a wink. If she is tired of sitting and wants to make some cash she will get up and come over. That's how I do it most of the time. If she makes eye contact and shows no interest then I won't bother anyway because it prob won't be fun.

Is she dark, light, etc? I wonder if it's the Panamanian girl Paola. If so she's a lot of fun.

If doll face is the description then I'd say my personal fav pearla but her hair is wavy, dark and she very light skinned.

What are her details?[/QUOTE]She's short, very light skin, long very straight hair, and relatively new. She has a very pretty face, prettier by far than any other girl in there (in my opinion). She has a very innocent looking face. She has not been there more than 2 months at the most. Again, she is always on lock down down, sitting with whatever dude snaggs her. They will sit an chat with her for 45 min then she will get up, get snagged by the next Mexican and sit for another 45 min. I dunno, but if it was me I'd be trying to make as much money as I could "Next".

[QUOTE=Gridley;5945402]We need details like shift / day of the week / outfit and a more comprehensive description or we are all guessing.

Pearla is internet model type gorgeous but I haven't seen her there in awhile. She must be another that is weekends only.

I'm usually successful with prying girls away from conversationalists with a quick backroom interrupt but I've failed at times. There are guys who spend mad money just to sit and talk. I don't know their business but some will have a harem and easily blow through a grand in an hour. No bullshit, I've seen it and the girls won't walk away for your sixty / eighty when he is giving each one of them two hundred and cognac just for their company. Those are the outliers, for the most part it's a combination of laziness and familiarity talking with someone in their native language. It's like being in a Southern Country in there. That's why I constantly hone my Spanish and drink Corona LOL.[/QUOTE]Pearla is stunning and adorable at the same time. Thick in all the right places for me and such a sweetheart of a girl and insane in the back. We've tried to set up meeting outside but it never works. She became my replacement for cuban Rebecca who used to be there. She lives full time in Miami and only comes up here a couple times a year.

I think a lot of those guys blow their weeks worth paycheck on these girls thinking it will get them in good graces for freebies and they can look like big spenders when financially speaking it's better sense to just go in the back. I've known a couple guys like that. "I don't pay for it". No? Cause you just dumped WAY more than I ever have and it's still a gamble for you. Some also find one they get hooked on and just pay loads to keep her around so other guys aren't soiling her. Dudes are wired sometimes.


[QUOTE=JoeMiami;5945642]She's short, very light skin, long very straight hair, and relatively new. She has a very pretty face, prettier by far than any other girl in there (in my opinion). She has a very innocent looking face. She has not been there more than 2 months at the most. Again, she is always on lock down down, sitting with whatever dude snaggs her. They will sit an chat with her for 45 min then she will get up, get snagged by the next Mexican and sit for another 45 min. I dunno, but if it was me I'd be trying to make as much money as I could "Next".[/QUOTE]

Not sure I have seen her yet then. If she is that new she may be scared of the back still. I remember when Krystal first showed up she would do just this. Sit at the bar with some guy and talk. You couldn't get her in the back at all. As she became more comfortable with it she opened up. She was never a hard core bar shark circling the floor but if she new you and liked you she would def go in the back and was very good. I honestly don't prefer those ones. I've had a couple and it could be boring but most of all I actually feel creepy after. I had one girl (thin one who has or had braces) tell me I was her first one back there after and I felt like complete garbage lol. That's just me tho. Give her some time. If you actually do want to go back with her and this IS her situation don't be aggressive. Just show your interest and let her come over to you or buy her a drink and chat for a bit and see what comes out of I. Just my advice.

[QUOTE=MadPlaid;5945906]Pearla is stunning and adorable at the same time. Thick in all the right places for me and such a sweetheart of a girl and insane in the back. We've tried to set up meeting outside but it never works. She became my replacement for cuban Rebecca who used to be there. She lives full time in Miami and only comes up here a couple times a year.

I think a lot of those guys blow their weeks worth paycheck on these girls thinking it will get them in good graces for freebies and they can look like big spenders when financially speaking it's better sense to just go in the back. I've known a couple guys like that. "I don't pay for it". No? Cause you just dumped WAY more than I ever have and it's still a gamble for you. Some also find one they get hooked on and just pay loads to keep her around so other guys aren't soiling her. Dudes are wired sometimes..[/QUOTE]She's there during the week as well as weekends. You may not see her that easily, as she does work the back a lot. She often never make it off the upper stage because dudes snag her to go right back to the back if she makes it of the upper stage she going to get snagged for 45 min chatting with someone. She is the hottest and most popular chic there right now. Again stunning face. She even has a beautiful smile. I think most if there cat's are trying to wife her or something, because it's not that much talking in the world when the end result is "go to the back" every time. All this talking about her makes we want to take a drive up there today to try my hand. I have been at it for more than a month and can't snag her. I think she's one of the transients an will soon enough will be gone. Also, I have been visiting PMs, bishops, are-place, keystone, and the like for many many many years, and this girl is new. Not returning new new. My nick name for her is Doll Face. You will know what I mean when you see her. And yes she does have that Internet Model Look.

[QUOTE=JoeMiami;5946198]She's there during the week as well as weekends. You may not see her that easily, as she does work the back a lot. She often never make it off the upper stage because dudes snag her to go right back to the back if she makes it of the upper stage she going to get snagged for 45 min chatting with someone. She is the hottest and most popular chic there right now. Again stunning face. She even has a beautiful smile. I think most if there cat's are trying to wife her or something, because it's not that much talking in the world when the end result is "go to the back" every time. All this talking about her makes we want to take a drive up there today to try my hand. I have been at it for more than a month and can't snag her. I think she's one of the transients an will soon enough will be gone. Also, I have been visiting PMs, bishops, are-place, keystone, and the like for many many many years, and this girl is new. Not returning new new. My nick name for her is Doll Face. You will know what I mean when you see her. And yes she does have that Internet Model Look.[/QUOTE]Given how often I'm donating to the girls there I'm surprised I haven't seen her, although I'm a strictly weekday guy. Where is she from?

And yeah new new would be new to me. Almost every girl tries the, oh papi I just started here this week crap, even though I've seen them for weeks. Makes sense though, they are far more memorable to us than we are to them.

[QUOTE=JoeMiami;5928494]Figured I'd share this with you degenerates. There is a slim young black chick that works at PMs every now and then. She loves to BBJ and is Ok with bare as well. She cums easily (which is why I like her), but never partook in the BBF yet it's always on the menu without asking. Of course YMMV.[/QUOTE]Do you have a name? Hours and days? Don't want to waste my time driving all the way there for nothing.

[QUOTE=OfficeHo;5926620]Says she is 34. But dancer years are like dog years. LOL. But looks like in her thirties, whatever she is. Enjoy O.[/QUOTE]Based on reviews I took a ride with Pamela but it was average for me.

Has anyone tried a dominican named Mia? Taller, straight black hair with excellent english. Claims to be new, yea right. Gave me the full treatment at the bar with super dirty talk and licking but wanted 150 for BBBJ claiming no one there does that so I walked.

Went Saturday afternoon and must say it was full of girls. Probably saw about 10-12. Met 2 girls, Amanda and her cousin Mia. Most in there were the regular Brazilians. Through a few bucks to Amanda while she was on stage but didn't get to sample her long emough. Anyone know if she does takeout? I noticed the club isn't as strict and more services can be had in the back, as it was offered by a few ladies.

[QUOTE=Giants77;5953111]I noticed the club isn't as strict and more services can be had in the back, as it was offered by a few ladies.[/QUOTE]Are they under new management or something? I haven't been there since the pandemic started but Ruby's used to have cameras back there and the owner would personally kick out the monger AND the girl if he suspected you were negotiating takeout. Nevermind getting extras. They always were lenient with touching though. Maybe they realized this is the direction the club needs to go if they want to keep it from sinking under?

[QUOTE=Giants77;5953111]Went Saturday afternoon and must say it was full of girls. Probably saw about 10-12. Met 2 girls, Amanda and her cousin Mia. Most in there were the regular Brazilians. Through a few bucks to Amanda while she was on stage but didn't get to sample her long emough. Anyone know if she does takeout? I noticed the club isn't as strict and more services can be had in the back, as it was offered by a few ladies.[/QUOTE]Dude. I hope you understand what a of a post this. I'll be there this week to try out the new format.

Has anybody seen her, she used to work at American Spa years ago black girl with a very nice body juicy breasts, great FS.

[QUOTE=KChill1234;5954371]Has anybody seen her, she used to work at American Spa years ago black girl with a very nice body juicy breasts, great FS.[/QUOTE]That place has been closed for a million years. Any girl that would have been there is now a grandma. Even if you found her.

[QUOTE=OfficeHo;5954716]That place has been closed for a million years. Any girl that would have been there is now a grandma. Even if you found her.[/QUOTE]The Devil was still in diapers when that was a round. I pull something pretty hot of that place an Indian chic. Bang on and off for years.

[QUOTE=Seekist;5954785]The Devil was still in diapers when that was a round. I pull something pretty hot of that place an Indian chic. Bang on and off for years.[/QUOTE]That, and Renassaince on Ridgefield. That was early to mid 90's. Even back then, American had a lackluster reputation.

[QUOTE=JoeMiami;5954162]Dude. I hope you understand what a of a post this. I'll be there this week to try out the new format.[/QUOTE]Let us know what kind of services are now being offered. I've gotten many a handie / Russian, a few takeout offers and a rare covert BBBJ from a drunk girl once. But all of them were in fear of management finding out.

[QUOTE=Elsyan;5955249]Let us know what kind of services are now being offered. I've gotten many a handie / Russian, a few takeout offers and a rare covert BBBJ from a drunk girl once. But all of them were in fear of management finding out.[/QUOTE]As far as I know mgmt has been kicking out dancers for any reason and the dances are so weak that no one goes to that club anymore and the dancers are in constant fear of being fired.

[QUOTE=James1;5955346]As far as I know mgmt has been kicking out dancers for any reason and the dances are so weak that no one goes to that club anymore and the dancers are in constant fear of being fired.[/QUOTE]You might get a HJ if she knows you well but will ask for $100 and only if the owner is not there, that is what I have seen on weekdays when I stop in between appointments.

[QUOTE=ChromeDome;5955979]You might get a HJ if she knows you well but will ask for $100 and only if the owner is not there, that is what I have seen on weekdays when I stop in between appointments.[/QUOTE]Ruby's has always been like that. I went there once and once only, around 1990 or so. If you even made hand contact with a dancer giving her a tip, they were on you immediately. Then there was a shoot out in front of the place over a drug deal; that cinched it for me. I never went back. I never heard that it had changed, either. Who needed that aggravation when there were several other clubs in Bpt. Where you could actually enjoy yourself. A lot of it was due to the owner at the time, who owed the state millions in fines for a non-club matter. Just the way it goes. You owe us, we lean on you.

[QUOTE=ChromeDome;5955979]You might get a HJ if she knows you well but will ask for $100 and only if the owner is not there, that is what I have seen on weekdays when I stop in between appointments.[/QUOTE]I went there last summer and most of the girls were smoking. No extras in or out and I tried. So if what he says is true. I'm going to enjoy that place to the fullest.

[QUOTE=JoeMiami;5957717]I went there last summer and most of the girls were smoking. No extras in or out and I tried. So if what he says is true. I'm going to enjoy that place to the fullest.[/QUOTE]I have always gotten take out at ruby's, years ago, right through the pandemic when they were the only one open, and could probably get it now. Not really sure what the nay saying is about. Maybe YMMV, but it happens a lot more than folks are mentioning on here. Enjoy O.

Trust me guys, I've gone in the back multiple times with multiole ladies and they all offer services from HJ, BJ, to FS. There usually use to be a guy as security in the back that would make a run by and make sure nothing is going on in the back but now no one is there. The other day my friend was in the back and I saw the bartender walk from behind the bar to go take a peak in the back. When my friend return he mentioned he got a HJ in the back. I know its not the usual there but maybe things changed or the staff act like they are still keeping an eye out even though they might not care. Its funny because when I saw a girl go in the back right after she would go to the ladies room to most likely clean up. Also have been offered takeout and prices range from 300-500.

[QUOTE=Giants77;5959518]Trust me guys, I've gone in the back multiple times with multiole ladies and they all offer services from HJ, BJ, to FS. There usually use to be a guy as security in the back that would make a run by and make sure nothing is going on in the back but now no one is there. The other day my friend was in the back and I saw the bartender walk from behind the bar to go take a peak in the back. When my friend return he mentioned he got a HJ in the back. I know its not the usual there but maybe things changed or the staff act like they are still keeping an eye out even though they might not care. Its funny because when I saw a girl go in the back right after she would go to the ladies room to most likely clean up. Also have been offered takeout and prices range from 300-500.[/QUOTE]Good to hear. Any intel on what prices the girls are charging for those services? Are they up front about it?

[QUOTE=Elsyan;5959866]Good to hear. Any intel on what prices the girls are charging for those services? Are they up front about it?[/QUOTE]Usually between 60-100 depending on girl. They will offer and give their menu when they feel you are legit. If they are not on stage dancing just call them over to you and have a conversation make them feel comfortable and then they will ask to go to the back. Once again maybe not offered by all ladies but can be had.

[QUOTE=Giants77;5960065]Usually between 60-100 depending on girl. They will offer and give their menu when they feel you are legit. If they are not on stage dancing just call them over to you and have a conversation make them feel comfortable and then they will ask to go to the back. Once again maybe not offered by all ladies but can be had.[/QUOTE]I haven't been in like 6 months but as in last post I have gotten HJs but no go on BBBJ in the back. girls were very careful to not get caught. If girls are willing to do bbbj now that's great and will have to give another try.

[QUOTE=Giants77;5959518]Trust me guys, I've gone in the back multiple times with multiole ladies and they all offer services from HJ, BJ, to FS. There usually use to be a guy as security in the back that would make a run by and make sure nothing is going on in the back but now no one is there. The other day my friend was in the back and I saw the bartender walk from behind the bar to go take a peak in the back. When my friend return he mentioned he got a HJ in the back. I know its not the usual there but maybe things changed or the staff act like they are still keeping an eye out even though they might not care. Its funny because when I saw a girl go in the back right after she would go to the ladies room to most likely clean up. Also have been offered takeout and prices range from 300-500.[/QUOTE]With all this talk of extras, thought I'd stop by Ruby's and check out the situation. Right before the lockdown, I enjoyed some nice backroom fun a couple of times without any interruption. Although I didn't partake this time (nobody really got my juices flowing, although there was a girl with braids and nice tits that might be worth a "dance" sometime), I will say that from what I observed there is backroom fun to be had. No security in back, bartender never checked. Saw a lady come out after her dance sanitizing her hands (I'm sure she was rubbing more than the guy's shoulders), and the guy went directly to the bathroom to clean up. I know the price was $60 pre-lockdown. Hopefully, inflation hasn't kicked in.

[QUOTE=GoodVibes;5969994]With all this talk of extras, thought I'd stop by Ruby's and check out the situation. Right before the lockdown, I enjoyed some nice backroom fun a couple of times without any interruption. Although I didn't partake this time (nobody really got my juices flowing, although there was a girl with braids and nice tits that might be worth a "dance" sometime), I will say that from what I observed there is backroom fun to be had. No security in back, bartender never checked. Saw a lady come out after her dance sanitizing her hands (I'm sure she was rubbing more than the guy's shoulders), and the guy went directly to the bathroom to clean up. I know the price was $60 pre-lockdown. Hopefully, inflation hasn't kicked in.[/QUOTE]Wow, that's a fantastic development! I've avoided that place for ages because I could never feel comfortable there with the paranoid sociopathic owner watching yours and every girls every move. Maybe a younger crew has learned that it's best not to alienate your customers.

Has hit pm. $10 to go in the back now. Talked to the door guy and he's pissed as no one tips him anymore.

Bc is free now to go to the back now but the talent has been really really bad.

[QUOTE=Elsyan;5970591]Has hit pm. $10 to go in the back now. Talked to the door guy and he's pissed as no one tips him anymore.

Bc is free now to go to the back now but the talent has been really really bad.[/QUOTE]Yes, can confirm the hike to $10 at PM. The line still stretched halfway around the room at some points last night though.

[QUOTE=Gridley;5971103]Yes, can confirm the hike to $10 at PM. The line still stretched halfway around the room at some points last night though.[/QUOTE]This is getting ridiculous. PM is making money hand over fist. I doubt inflation has anything to do with it. There is so little competition in the area which why they can get away with it. I get the girls there are way hotter than STG, etc. But now its borderline pushing to $120 (Door fee: $15 + Two Drink Minimum & Tip: $13, Stripper Fee: $60 to $80 and now the Back room fee is upped to: $10! For about 10-15 minutes tops of service with the bouncer banging the door if we take too long. I was thinking of making a trip back to Bridgeport, but now having second thoughts. I am sure my other head will make the decision for me. This just sux!

[QUOTE=ViperCum;5975222]This is getting ridiculous. PM is making money hand over fist. I doubt inflation has anything to do with it. There is so little competition in the area which why they can get away with it. I get the girls there are way hotter than STG, etc. But now its borderline pushing to $120 (Door fee: $15 + Two Drink Minimum & Tip: $13, Stripper Fee: $60 to $80 and now the Back room fee is upped to: $10! For about 10-15 minutes tops of service with the bouncer banging the door if we take too long. I was thinking of making a trip back to Bridgeport, but now having second thoughts. I am sure my other head will make the decision for me. This just sux![/QUOTE]Have not been there in a couple weeks. When did door fee go up to $15?

[QUOTE=OfficeHo;5975254]Have not been there in a couple weeks. When did door fee go up to $15?[/QUOTE]Sorry, I meant to say door fee is $10.backroom jumped from $5 to $10.

[QUOTE=ViperCum;5975222]This is getting ridiculous. PM is making money hand over fist. I doubt inflation has anything to do with it. There is so little competition in the area which why they can get away with it. I get the girls there are way hotter than STG, etc. But now its borderline pushing to $120 (Door fee: $15 + Two Drink Minimum & Tip: $13, Stripper Fee: $60 to $80 and now the Back room fee is upped to: $10! For about 10-15 minutes tops of service with the bouncer banging the door if we take too long. I was thinking of making a trip back to Bridgeport, but now having second thoughts. I am sure my other head will make the decision for me. This just sux![/QUOTE]With the clubs I can plan everything around my time obligations. I go to relax, be entertained by some eye candy and if one rubs me the right way I can have her. There's no loss of time and effort if I decide not to do anything. I'm not worried about being robbed or assaulted. That's a very rare deal.

Website women are a no go for me. I don't have the time to drive around staking out someone's apartment or hotel, texting incessantly only to be ghosted, scammed, or threatened. I don't like not knowing how bad the woman looks until I see her and then having to bail under duress. I certainly won't raw dog a woman who engages in high risk behavior.

So yeah, PM is costly. But if you look at it from a total enjoyment perspective, it's still a bargain. When I travel out of state and tell people about these clubs, their jaws drop. Oh, and if you absolutely need an hour or more you can get outcall with many. It will cost more than the website broads but again eyecandy vs eyesore.

[QUOTE=ViperCum;5975222]This is getting ridiculous. PM is making money hand over fist. I doubt inflation has anything to do with it. There is so little competition in the area which why they can get away with it. I get the girls there are way hotter than STG, etc. But now its borderline pushing to $120 (Door fee: $15 + Two Drink Minimum & Tip: $13, Stripper Fee: $60 to $80 and now the Back room fee is upped to: $10! For about 10-15 minutes tops of service with the bouncer banging the door if we take too long. I was thinking of making a trip back to Bridgeport, but now having second thoughts. I am sure my other head will make the decision for me. This just sux![/QUOTE]All this means is less times to the back. More pre-negotiation on Stripper fees + an expectation for more time in the back. Not to mention I will be buying less drinks at the bar for me and anyone else. The "fees" and "charges" are going to make less trips to PM make more sense.

[QUOTE=James1;5976933]All this means is less times to the back. More pre-negotiation on Stripper fees + an expectation for more time in the back. Not to mention I will be buying less drinks at the bar for me and anyone else. The "fees" and "charges" are going to make less trips to PM make more sense.[/QUOTE]I haven't been here since pre covid but I'm overdue, I don't live as close anymore unfortunately. I'd suggest pre gaming then hit PM, I always did that before these additional fees. Get a nice buzz then go. I have to agree with Gridley on all points, when compared to dealing with STG and the horror stories that come along with that I'll take this any day. Always have been appreciative that I live close enough that the Bpt clubs are an option, used to live 20 minutes away. Worst case scenario here you have a couple of beers and don't see anything to your liking or head into the back with a dud and lose $60-80 - lesson learned. I just don't have the time or patience to get jerked around and / or blown off or robbed by these STG junkies. Clubs like Electric Blue or Rhode Island clubs you'd still be paying multiple times what you'll shell out here even with these fees. Sidenote- interesting to hear about Ruby's possibly loosening up. Haven't been in a few years as well but I'll need to add to a Bpt day trip one of these weekends. In the 30 ish years going there I had I think 3 experiences in the back that went to a handy / BBBJ. But they were all basically unexpected surprises with much caution on the guy that would sit in the back.