"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=CandyMan555;3525753]Thanks CM.[/QUOTE]Fuck Chamber (e. G Hotel room).

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3525940]Anyone else seeing older profiles popping up in your search radius but recent location shows out of country? Examples below are profiles that I know haven't been active since I joined sa but recent locations such as Singapore and Germany are showing. This is 3rd weekend in row for this. This is just an example, probably close to a dozen or more.

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/271e6ee7-0518-5ead-6abc-c35a2aea1a4c[/URL]

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/8e5ddaab-341a-0358-178c-aa8aa3c0353c[/URL]

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/25eb84aa-b862-75ed-4407-3ce95057b9c4[/URL]

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/bfe778a3-4fff-345b-3bd5-27d3a6197be5[/URL]

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/baf9641a-fa25-400b-e0cc-740c64c62af6[/URL]

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/0487e708-4649-b4d8-147a-40c972bf6944[/URL][/QUOTE]All of your links are now showing as "Profile Not Found".

[QUOTE=FigLeaf;3526955]All of your links are now showing as "Profile Not Found".[/QUOTE]I forwarded them to SA on a complaint. They might have deleted them. I sent them to SA last week and customer service said that they had no control over older profiles being used and found no red flag in the recent location being out of the country. This week a different customer service said they would be forwarded to the fraud division. Guess it depends on who reads your complaint ticket. My question was if someone outside the country could activate old unused profiles then how safe would our info be. Last week the answer was no way could it be done. Haven't heard anything back from them other than it would be looked into.

I am thinking about entering this hobby, can someone direct me to a post or two that would give me a good place to start. How to handle meet and greet, etc.

Thanks in advance!

Try the index for this thread, "Sugarbaby Thread Highlights, Index, and FAQ", on the Richmond board.

[QUOTE=LightUUp;3527531]I am thinking about entering this hobby, can someone direct me to a post or two that would give me a good place to start. How to handle meet and greet, etc.

Thanks in advance![/QUOTE]

Has anyone seen yogapantsandcoffee32. She quoted me 400.

Thanks.

[QUOTE=Ohjedi;3531971]Has anyone seen yogapantsandcoffee32. She quoted me 400.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]$400 for how long, that should be at least a full night or overnighter. I haven't had much luck with the Richmond SB's.

I got this from so called medical girl!

Sloan_xox 3.

My last two arrangements were $750 per meet, 2 or 3 times monthly.

[QUOTE=IbDaddy;3532045]$400 for how long, that should be at least a full night or overnighter. I haven't had much luck with the Richmond SB's.[/QUOTE]

I've written much in the past about this, and I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'm also aware that newcomers occasionally come across this thread (whether they post or not), and are unlikely to read lots of historical posts or even the FAQ / Index. I'll throw the concept out there again, because I think it helps us all to at least consider incorporating a "no money talk up front" policy into your sugaring strategy.

Negotiating before you've even met the girl is only hurting your cause, it practically guaranteed to result in inflated quotes. If the girl is new, she is testing the waters to see what kind of bids she can get. If she's a seasoned SB, her first instinct is going to be to go for higher amounts than her prior SD gave her, each time she lands a new one. If she is an escort or UTR, she is plain and simply using SA to scam a higher-than market rate, and she'll be happy as long as she's beating her BP rate, so again her SD is paying too much for what she is.

So here's the issue -- generally speaking, women are not good negotiators by nature, at least not hot young ones. Good negotiation requires a certain competitive drive (for which testosterone levels help). Because it is easier to negotiate from behind a keyboard, she wants to keep all negotiation taking place there, because she knows once you meet and talk in person, her negotiation advantage will quickly fade and she will be playing on your home field. If you agree on a price in an email or text before you meet, you've already committed to paying too much.

Bottom line -- wait at least until the M&G to discuss money. If you discuss it in person, you have the advantage. Also, girls who would come across as hard asses in e-mails often become much warmer and receptive once they meet you in person. There's something about real, face to face interaction that completely transcends e-mailing and texting when it comes to getting a girl in bed. And remember, these girls have grown up with digital communication dominating their social life. So, their level of adeptness at in-person meetings is somewhat reduced by this fact, compared to girls of same age even 15 years ago. Just subtly touching her arm or leg while at your M&G date can completely turn the tables in your favor.

I'm not saying that digital communications are not an important part of your game, they are. But because the gift amount is such a critical element, if you must talk money at all, then make sure it is done in person. Not only will you get better results and better girls, but you are also removing the possibility of encountering legal hassles, or being outed or blackmailed about what you said in email or text.

Think about this in another context for a moment. If you had a car for sale, and people were contacting you via e-mail making low offers right off the bat, are you likely to accommodate them? Or, would you be more likely to come down on the price if one of those people took time out of their day to come and actually see the car first, expressing a genuine interest and talk to you about any concerns they had or flaws they found, and then make a reasonable offer? Most people are more open or flexible in the second, face-to-face scenario. Once you've both invested the time to meet in person, the road is paved for more flexibility in your price compared to people who are just randomly sending low-ball offers sight unseen, people who you don't even know if they will show up to pay the agreed amount, even if you did come down on price. Allowance talks are no different. And remember the "offers" that you make are bidding directly against her pride and self-esteem, making it a more tricky situation than negotiating car price. Women are innately vain and have inflated sense of value for providing access to their body. Thus, making lower than expected offers over the Internet when they've worked so hard to promote themselves by taking thousands of selfies and only uploading the ten best cannot possibly be a good idea.

If enough SDs would follow this simple approach, the net effect is that all SDs will benefit. The girls would still get their allowances, but it would be daddy calling the shots and not them. There is nothing about putting them in control of the negotiation process that benefits the lifestyle.

I know, some of you are saying that some girls stop responding if their demands for an allowance commitment aren't met. Move on to the next. Collectively the girls will all learn how to play the game optimally, and the escorts who threaten to bring down SA and similar sites will disappear. Not only this, but you'd be surprised how many of these girls who go dark because they couldn't have their way send you a message a few weeks later, pretending like the first conversation never happened. In other words a loss is rarely a permanent loss as long as you avoid getting into an argument / conflict.

I've found it's best to just politely refuse to discuss money up front. We have plenty of good reasons to do this, including legal worries and avoidance of escorts, so you have a very good excuse to stick to your guns. An SB worth meeting will understand that this benefits her too. If she goes permanently dark, then you did well to avoid her because it means she had no real interest in getting to know you, and is likely an under-performing but over-paid BP girl anyway - - you can get an hour of fucking cheaper elsewhere and should not settle for a girl like her.

The next level is to try to make sure they are having enough fun on the date so that the subject of money never comes up; it may not always be possible, but should be the target goal. This is how most of my dates go. I know she is intimidated to bring up the subject of money in person anyway, and I'm certainly not going to bring it up myself. Then invite her to extend the date and get to know each other better without directly indicating sex. If it feels right, you can even suggest that it would be a better place to discuss private matters (discussing allowance in a public place is a bad idea and kind of awkward). She knows what's going to happen when she follows you to the FC, so be tactful and nonchalant about it. It's entirely possible she will want to discuss money at the very last minute (hasn't happened to me but if it did, that's the right time to do it). But by that time she is in your room and everything is completely in your favor and on your terms. The probability of her turning down a fair gift amount is non-existent at this point, she's already gone this far and she doesn't want the night to be a loss.

I'd rather spend 100 or more on dinner and drinks, then gift the girl 200 (for good performance) than to just promise her 300 or whatever up front, especially when she likely would have quoted me $400 or possibly more if I had tried to talk to her about it on-line. Not only do I benefit from the decent food and drink, and the experience of people staring and wondering how an old guy like me has such a hot date, but the date keeps her entertained and her mind off of the pricing game, and sets the mood for sex, so that her desire is elevated and she isn't thinking about money as the sole reason for being there. A good SB will be thrilled with this approach, and will be happy with whatever you give her as long as its not completely insulting.

GREAT POST! I have enjoyed and learned quite a bit from this forum for a long time, although this IS my first post. Having earned a good living from my years as a social worker and many years as an automobile dealership owner, you could not be more "spot on" as far as negotiation tactics! I truly love the analogy of the car buyer offering low offers on an internet vehicle that they have never seen, dismissing the potential quality, condition and appearance. I have used the parameters of, and include a four item rating for any vehicle (not trying to overly objectify the ladies) or our personal tastes in female companionship to value. The four I have always used are as follows. 1) eyes, or looks, personal appearance. 2) condition. 3) mileage. I think that is understandable. 4) price. If you have all four you will always have a brisk market. Any less than three parameters and it exponentially diminishes! What your narrative imparts to me is what I have lived by, with additional input that I can really use beyond the psychological aspects. I am an older gentleman to whom it is imperative to have the utmost discretion are. E. Social and professional associations. I have not posted any experiences as the few contacts I have encountered have preferred to stay UTR or I have preferred, also, to remain that way. I don't know how I can ever become a senior member this way but I do understand the value in the senior society! I only hope that I can enter that realm some day as I could probably benefit all of us. Again, JZLizard, I am indebted to you for the thread as I am EXTREMELY leery of LEO and you words of wisdom are wholeheartedly appreciated!

I agree, but have not always followed this method. I can tell from experience that discussing money upfront almost always is at our disadvantage. It also can be a disadvantage if not discussed in that expectations may be very different, but it's usually not the case.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3534559]I've written much in the past about this, and I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'm also aware that newcomers occasionally come across this thread (whether they post or not), and are unlikely to read lots of historical posts or even the FAQ / Index. I'll throw the concept out there again, because I think it helps us all to at least consider incorporating a "no money talk up front" policy into your sugaring strategy.

Negotiating before you've even met the girl is only hurting your cause, it practically guaranteed to result in inflated quotes. If the girl is new, she is testing the waters to see what kind of bids she can get. If she's a seasoned SB, her first instinct is going to be to go for higher amounts than her prior SD gave her, each time she lands a new one. If she is an escort or UTR, she is plain and simply using SA to scam a higher-than market rate, and she'll be happy as long as she's beating her BP rate, so again her SD is paying too much for what she is.

So here's the issue -- generally speaking, women are not good negotiators by nature, at least not hot young ones. Good negotiation requires a certain competitive drive (for which testosterone levels help). Because it is easier to negotiate from behind a keyboard, she wants to keep all negotiation taking place there, because she knows once you meet and talk in person, her negotiation advantage will quickly fade and she will be playing on your home field. If you agree on a price in an email or text before you meet, you've already committed to paying too much.

Bottom line -- wait at least until the M&G to discuss money. If you discuss it in person, you have the advantage. Also, girls who would come across as hard asses in e-mails often become much warmer and receptive once they meet you in person. There's something about real, face to face interaction that completely transcends e-mailing and texting when it comes to getting a girl in bed. And remember, these girls have grown up with digital communication dominating their social life. So, their level of adeptness at in-person meetings is somewhat reduced by this fact, compared to girls of same age even 15 years ago. Just subtly touching her arm or leg while at your M&G date can completely turn the tables in your favor.

I'm not saying that digital communications are not an important part of your game, they are. But because the gift amount is such a critical element, if you must talk money at all, then make sure it is done in person. Not only will you get better results and better girls, but you are also removing the possibility of encountering legal hassles, or being outed or blackmailed about what you said in email or text.

Think about this in another context for a moment. If you had a car for sale, and people were contacting you via e-mail making low offers right off the bat, are you likely to accommodate them? Or, would you be more likely to come down on the price if one of those people took time out of their day to come and actually see the car first, expressing a genuine interest and talk to you about any concerns they had or flaws they found, and then make a reasonable offer? Most people are more open or flexible in the second, face-to-face scenario. Once you've both invested the time to meet in person, the road is paved for more flexibility in your price compared to people who are just randomly sending low-ball offers sight unseen, people who you don't even know if they will show up to pay the agreed amount, even if you did come down on price. Allowance talks are no different. And remember the "offers" that you make are bidding directly against her pride and self-esteem, making it a more tricky situation than negotiating car price. Women are innately vain and have inflated sense of value for providing access to their body. Thus, making lower than expected offers over the Internet when they've worked so hard to promote themselves by taking thousands of selfies and only uploading the ten best cannot possibly be a good idea.

If enough SDs would follow this simple approach, the net effect is that all SDs will benefit. The girls would still get their allowances, but it would be daddy calling the shots and not them. There is nothing about putting them in control of the negotiation process that benefits the lifestyle.

I know, some of you are saying that some girls stop responding if their demands for an allowance commitment aren't met. Move on to the next. Collectively the girls will all learn how to play the game optimally, and the escorts who threaten to bring down SA and similar sites will disappear. Not only this, but you'd be surprised how many of these girls who go dark because they couldn't have their way send you a message a few weeks later, pretending like the first conversation never happened. In other words a loss is rarely a permanent loss as long as you avoid getting into an argument / conflict.

I've found it's best to just politely refuse to discuss money up front. We have plenty of good reasons to do this, including legal worries and avoidance of escorts, so you have a very good excuse to stick to your guns. An SB worth meeting will understand that this benefits her too. If she goes permanently dark, then you did well to avoid her because it means she had no real interest in getting to know you, and is likely an under-performing but over-paid BP girl anyway - - you can get an hour of fucking cheaper elsewhere and should not settle for a girl like her.

The next level is to try to make sure they are having enough fun on the date so that the subject of money never comes up; it may not always be possible, but should be the target goal. This is how most of my dates go. I know she is intimidated to bring up the subject of money in person anyway, and I'm certainly not going to bring it up myself. Then invite her to extend the date and get to know each other better without directly indicating sex. If it feels right, you can even suggest that it would be a better place to discuss private matters (discussing allowance in a public place is a bad idea and kind of awkward). She knows what's going to happen when she follows you to the FC, so be tactful and nonchalant about it. It's entirely possible she will want to discuss money at the very last minute (hasn't happened to me but if it did, that's the right time to do it). But by that time she is in your room and everything is completely in your favor and on your terms. The probability of her turning down a fair gift amount is non-existent at this point, she's already gone this far and she doesn't want the night to be a loss.

I'd rather spend 100 or more on dinner and drinks, then gift the girl 200 (for good performance) than to just promise her 300 or whatever up front, especially when she likely would have quoted me $400 or possibly more if I had tried to talk to her about it on-line. Not only do I benefit from the decent food and drink, and the experience of people staring and wondering how an old guy like me has such a hot date, but the date keeps her entertained and her mind off of the pricing game, and sets the mood for sex, so that her desire is elevated and she isn't thinking about money as the sole reason for being there. A good SB will be thrilled with this approach, and will be happy with whatever you give her as long as its not completely insulting.[/QUOTE]

Great post!

Your comments regarding the negotiation process were spot on. We males are usually MUCH better at this, especially face to face. Communication is 80% non-verbal. If you have game, understanding her non-verbal communication and reacting to it is a big part of the equation. You can't employ your best skills by email or text, especially in advance before you have even met in person. At the M&G you can control the situation in real time to your advantage.

I was busy over Labor Day recruiting new talent for the lineup. "Fresh" is the operative word for this latest addition to the rotation: 18 and a college freshman, anxious to spread her wings, and her legs, for new adventures. She is a tight spinner and looks like a cute young librarian or teacher with her glasses on. I have never had my cock sucked more eagerly nor with a greater desire to learn how to do what I like. She DTs me until she chokes spit strings and then spreads the warm messiness around to lick my balls and ass before she sit-slides on my cock and rides me like a wild animal. I will train her to be an absolutely first rate dick pleaser.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3534559] ...

Negotiating before you've even met the girl is only hurting your cause, it practically guaranteed to result in inflated quotes. If the girl is new, she is testing the waters to see what kind of bids she can get. If she's a seasoned SB, her first instinct is going to be to go for higher amounts than her prior SD gave her, each time she lands a new one. If she is an escort or UTR, she is plain and simply using SA to scam a higher-than market rate, and she'll be happy as long as she's beating her BP rate, so again her SD is paying too much for what she is.

...

[/QUOTE]+1 for this. A few years back I met a young college sophomore while on a biz trip. We met, and we had a great lunch and went back to the FC. She was an amazing lover. I could have had it for free, but I gave her $200. Fast forward a few months later, and I'm back in her town. I contact her and say let's meet again and I'll give you the same. She replies back she'd never see anyone for that low of an amount. I said OK, why was it ok last time. Her reply was "you were so handsome and confident. I wanted you. It was a bucket list kind of thing to meet a stranger, and fuck him. ".

So go ahead and negotiate up front, but you might miss out.

Best said by Felix Dennis - "If it flies, floats, or fornicates you should rent it. Don't buy it".

Having gone through my first and ONLY divorce, it's advice well taken (even with a prenup).