"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3517234]Yeah that doesn't happen to often, about like hitting the lottery or being struck by lighting. They are pros, just because one gets lucky once doesn't change the fact you can find most on BP or the higher end girls at an agency or p411. Because they throw you a bone means you have probably been pretty generous and they are getting ready to put their hand back in your pocket. Your right on the account that very few people have the same definition of a sb.[/QUOTE]I didn't say it doesn't happen often, I just said it doesn't happen as often as it should.

The likelihood of an SB, or stripper wanting to fuck a customer simply because she's attracted to him, and wants to, is a factor of two things: how attracted she is to him physically, and how much game he has. Anyone thinks the odds are like lottery or a lightning strike should improve their game, because they are missing out on some good times. Comments that indicate frustration and the difficulty of getting laid without paying for it only come from those who need to develop their game and / or improve themselves physically. Game matters more than appearance, but they both matter.

If I limited my statistics to only clubs with lax management or situations that allow the girl to leave easily, I would say that my efforts to obtain an offer for "break-even" takeout (I. E. I'm paying her no more than she would make it she stayed and worked her shift) are probably 6-7 out of 10 times. The actual statistics are lower, because some clubs make this tricky to navigate due to their management practice, they have the girl scared they will be fired if they don't finish their shift, or whatever, and unless you can get a couple of drinks down them they usually do care about losing their job. Shit happens. If I'm willing to just get her phone number and hook up with her later? Much greater odds. I'd say at almost any strip club, if they have enough dancers working, I could find at least one that will give me her number to hook up later (with no mention of money paid. Dancers usually already make decent money and don't need an SD unless the idea of it appeals to them sexually). My point here is that success rate depends on the club you pick. There are clubs where I know before I walk in that I can get some. I actually prefer the more difficult clubs because I like a challenge, so my own statistics are lower than if I were just playing for high score, or if I put aside my SO to be a full-time strip club monger with the goal of getting laid everyday. A player can always lower his standards for girls too, if high score is what matters. I prefer not to do that, sometimes I walk into a club and don't even see anyone up to my standard. Its not uncommon for me to get an offer for some off the clock fun and never follow up on it.

If that sounds out of reach or rare to you, I'd suggest reading some of the posts I've written in the past in this thread as exercises to improve your game, particularly the stripper-handling techniques if that's what appeals to you (require different handling than online SBs).

Our natural propensity for tunnel vision tempts us to believe that if our luck is good or bad in a given situation, everyone else must be experiencing the same thing. That has never been true when it comes to varying degrees of skill with the opposite sex.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3517693]I'm sorry your experience has been that bad. You seem very cynical.

If you have game, are still in decent shape and have a good sense of humor, you can do much better than typical BP girls...for less.[/QUOTE]Not cynical, just been in the sb game since 2010 and have realistic views and experience. If you care to look at my earlier post I'm a big believer in personality getting you further than the being in shape. That comes in second place, first place is the being able to provide the needs or arrangements to the SB. Game follows personality or is same for me. If you have no personality you have no game. My response was to jeez lizard question about strippers. For me a stripper is a pro whether she throws you a free one or not. If your more than generous sooner or later someone will throw you a free one. Its just good business. I'm old so my views are probably radical to some. My definition of a SB I'm sure is different than most. Anyone working in the sex industry I don't consider a SB. Most here do which is one of the reasons SA is being over run with swers, CL, BP and escort girls. When the first message to a potential SB is how much today, how much for an hour, or the popular will you take it up the ass shows why most guys are buying pussy instead of picking a girl up civy style. If you have that personality, good sense of humor and in shape that you mentioned its really easy to pick up girls. Just an old mans option, everyone has one.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3518104]I didn't say it doesn't happen often, I just said it doesn't happen as often as it should.

The likelihood of an SB, or stripper wanting to fuck a customer simply because she's attracted to him, and wants to, is a factor of two things: how attracted she is to him physically, and how much game he has. Anyone thinks the odds are like lottery or a lightning strike should improve their game, because they are missing out on some good times. Comments that indicate frustration and the difficulty of getting laid without paying for it only come from those who need to develop their game and / or improve themselves physically. Game matters more than appearance, but they both matter.

If I limited my statistics to only clubs with lax management or situations that allow the girl to leave easily, I would say that my efforts to obtain an offer for "break-even" takeout (I. E. I'm paying her no more than she would make it she stayed and worked her shift) are probably 6-7 out of 10 times. The actual statistics are lower, because some clubs make this tricky to navigate due to their management practice, they have the girl scared they will be fired if they don't finish their shift, or whatever, and unless you can get a couple of drinks down them they usually do care about losing their job. Shit happens. If I'm willing to just get her phone number and hook up with her later? Much greater odds. I'd say at almost any strip club, if they have enough dancers working, I could find at least one that will give me her number to hook up later (with no mention of money paid. Dancers usually already make decent money and don't need an SD unless the idea of it appeals to them sexually)..[/QUOTE]You asked a question pro or not and I gave an option. My theory on the game part is pretty simple also. Anyone with game can pick up pussy pretty easy without having to pay for it. There again opinion. I don't consider anyone in the sex industry a SB so we're never going to agree.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3518304]You asked a question pro or not and I gave an option. My theory on the game part is pretty simple also. Anyone with game can pick up pussy pretty easy without having to pay for it. There again opinion. I don't consider anyone in the sex industry a SB so we're never going to agree.[/QUOTE]Not all professional dancers are professional sex providers, if that's what you mean. If you read the strip club boards in various cities, you will find some clubs where nobody gets takeout or even back room extras, ever -- that is more a factor of the club itself, management, work shift policies etc. At the same time there are some clubs in some cities that are practically brothels. In a "typical club", a surprising number of strippers are lesbian, or bi preferring females, and that is probably the single biggest limiting factor I've found in hooking up with them.

If a stripper meets a customer she's interested in fucking right away, should she leave behind earnings of at least a couple of hundred bucks (possibly a lot more) after she's already paid management her fee for the right to work the club that night? It's not realistic (or polite, even) to talk to her with the attitude of "let's fuck, I don't care that it will probably cost you at least three hundred bucks if you leave with me"). Covering her income loss is the fair thing to do, and I would say that does not make her a pro sex worker. If she's giving blow jobs or fucking in the VIP room then yes she is, but not in a paid takeout situation unless she is really having a slow night and that's her only motive (I'd say that's rare, most strippers aren't that desperate). That's not to say she is not ALSO a sex worker by my own definition, but takeout in and of itself does not make her one. That's my opinion of course, and I'm not trying to convince you to agree with me. I'm interested in how others think but not prone to keep my thoughts to myself.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3518259]...Most here do which is one of the reasons SA is being over run with swers, CL, BP and escort girls....[/QUOTE]Swers. What does it mean? Or was that a typo.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3518259]...why most guys are buying pussy instead of picking a girl up civy style. If you have that personality, good sense of humor and in shape that you mentioned its really easy to pick up girls. Just an old mans option, everyone has one.[/QUOTE]Could it be that it is simpler (no complications of relationship, commitment etc) to buy pussy? Since no babe ever gave me the time of day and have always had to pay:(I have no way of comparing the two scenarios.

Pretty sure he meant swers as in. Short for street walkers. It's a common abbreviation.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;3518769]Swers. What does it mean? Or was that a typo.

Could it be that it is simpler (no complications of relationship, commitment etc) to buy pussy? Since no babe ever gave me the time of day and have always had to pay:(I have no way of comparing the two scenarios.[/QUOTE].

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;3518769]Swers. What does it mean? Or was that a typo.

Could it be that it is simpler (no complications of relationship, commitment etc) to buy pussy? Since no babe ever gave me the time of day and have always had to pay:(I have no way of comparing the two scenarios.[/QUOTE]Some guys have problems and this is their remedy. I have never bought the relationship, commitment, pay to leave answers as most of these guys love to get involved in a escorts life and probably have posted at one time about being rushed or not getting the full time paid for. Just my opinion.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3519478]Some guys have problems and this is their remedy. I have never bought the relationship, commitment, pay to leave answers as most of these guys love to get involved in a escorts life and probably have posted at one time about being rushed or not getting the full time paid for. Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]Does it indicate anything to you that your cynicism is in the minority here? Particularly given the number of credible posters that have described experiences in sugar dating in this thread that contradict your doubts. A lot of people have pointed this out to you. I have noticed many regular posters complaining about the negative vibe you strive so hard to bring to the thread.

It takes pretty much a dedicated effort toward intentional denial to not understand that hot women are attracted to successful men, period. Almost all of them want to land one permanently, unless they are feeding a drug habit and then they may have other motives. Some of the women that sign up to be SBs are far from close to escort status, while some of them are outright escorts, and varying levels in between. Sugar dating has been taking place on civy dating sites long before dedicated SD sites came along, some girls are genuinely attracted to older men (particularly successful ones).

Within the spectrum of girls you meet in the bowl, the money might be more or less important to them depending on how much they like you. To some, it's the only thing.

But don't forget there is a spectrum of sugar daddies as well, and they judge us based on where we land on that spectrum. On one end of it you might have repulsive, depressed, old and overweight tightwads with no game that are trying to date too far out of their league, and at the opposite end of the other spectrum you have billionaires that look like Brad Pitt that can get pretty much whoever they want. The kind of results an SD has will depend on where he falls on the spectrum, and to some extent he can change where he falls on the spectrum by making it his goal to do so.

For guys at one end of the spectrum to doubt what might go on farther up the spectrum doesn't seem to make much sense, they are talking about something they have no first hand knowledge of. The same level of negative thinking that leads the guys at the low-end to believe they know better is probably exactly the same characteristic that's repelling women and forcing them to pay too much for it. How many women like a cynical, opinionated, negative man? Those types have created a catch-22 situation for themselves. Sucks to be them.

Bottom line is, if anyone is paying too much for pussy and want to fix the problem here are your options:

1. Improve yourself -- your looks, your game, your level of confidence, your attitude on life, elevating female interest in you or elevating the qualify of girls interested in you.

2. Lower your standards. If girls are just taking your money without indicating they want to stay the night or weekend with you, you could be trying to play too far out of your league, so if you're the type that prefers compromise over effort to improve yourself, this could be your answer.

3. Continue to piss and moan, pontificating about what others might be experiencing, even though you don't really know, and continue paying too much for pussy.

That's pretty much what it comes down to. To doubt that anyone is having more fun than ourselves is kind of shallow and lame, you have to admit.

Quite awhile ago JZ brought up a concern about too many prostitutes and mongers infesting SA and raising the possibility of LEO deciding to do something about it. My town has an SB thread that has been dormant for over a year. In the other local threads SA and SD / SB have been mentioned, but mostly dismissed by the general BP and escort monger community. There now has been an explosion over the last week or so of activity about SA on my local SB thread, specifically about how to get cheap pussy from UTRs as well as unsuspecting SBs. Techniques have been discussed on what to say and how to say it to seem like you're a serious SD. There also has been the publishing of profiles of UTRs or hookers-in-training. This was a recent post:

"One of my SA favorites has a room Friday night just south of Xxxxx and is taking appointments. DM me and I'll get you details. Young, white, thin, great ass, bare. ".

This, combined with most of the other SB city threads which feature mostly reviews of UTRs, has convinced me that JZ is right. This may be the beginning of the end for SA. I don't say this to be judgmental about the mongers or even the UTRs. Heck, I was a monger for 30+ years before seeing the light and converting to being an SD. I'm still tempted by some of the easy pay-for-play profiles, but I am serious about long term SBs. I try and skip the P4 P and save my resources for the true SBs. I've listened to all of the semantic arguments about the differences between and SB and an escort. I agree it's all ultimately sex for money, but from my viewpoint the difference is the one or two for the SB vs. The tens or more for the escort. Plus, the true SB is more selective and actually has to feel a connection vs. Whoever shows up at the door for the escort.

I merely make my observations as pointing out potential problems for SA as it becomes a monger and hooker board and also drives away the true SBs who are only looking for fun and a bit of help from one (maybe 2) guys. Although contributors to this thread obviously have very divergent definitions of the SD / SB relationship, I'm glad that it has mostly been an oasis from the passing around of profiles and focused more on higher level topics.

Good Hunting,

Travelin.

[QUOTE=TravelinSD;3522630]Quite awhile ago JZ brought up a concern about too many prostitutes and mongers infesting SA and raising the possibility of LEO deciding to do something about it. My town has an SB thread that has been dormant for over a year. In the other local threads SA and SD / SB have been mentioned, but mostly dismissed by the general BP and escort monger community. There now has been an explosion over the last week or so of activity about SA on my local SB thread, specifically about how to get cheap pussy from UTRs as well as unsuspecting SBs. Techniques have been discussed on what to say and how to say it to seem like you're a serious SD. There also has been the publishing of profiles of UTRs or hookers-in-training. This was a recent post:

"One of my SA favorites has a room Friday night just south of Xxxxx and is taking appointments. DM me and I'll get you details. Young, white, thin, great ass, bare. ".

This, combined with most of the other SB city threads which feature mostly reviews of UTRs, has convinced me that JZ is right. This may be the beginning of the end for SA. I don't say this to be judgmental about the mongers or even the UTRs. Heck, I was a monger for 30+ years before seeing the light and converting to being an SD. I'm still tempted by some of the easy pay-for-play profiles, but I am serious about long term SBs. I try and skip the P4 P and save my resources for the true SBs. I've listened to all of the semantic arguments about the differences between and SB and an escort. I agree it's all ultimately sex for money, but from my viewpoint the difference is the one or two for the SB vs. The tens or more for the escort. Plus, the true SB is more selective and actually has to feel a connection vs..[/QUOTE]You didn't need a crystal ball to see this coming. SD4 ME ran the same course and seeing the influx of the working girls to sa and reading the various threads it was a no brainer conclusion. The hookers would disappear from the site if the mongers didn't patronize them. The escorts in my region post a profile and if it doesn't yield quick results like BP usually never come back to the site. If they don't get quick results its back to BP or the street. But read the other sb threads and see mongers reviewing the latest baby giving a BJ in the car and you see it's here to stay. Down the line a new site will become hot until the mongers ruin it like sa.

[QUOTE=TravelinSD;3522630]
I merely make my observations as pointing out potential problems for SA as it becomes a monger and hooker board and also drives away the true SBs who are only looking for fun and a bit of help from one (maybe 2) guys. Although contributors to this thread obviously have very divergent definitions of the SD / SB relationship, I'm glad that it has mostly been an oasis from the passing around of profiles and focused more on higher level topics.
[/QUOTE]The contrast between the discourse that takes place in the Richmond thread versus elsewhere is puzzling to me. Every time I look outside this thread at other cities SB activity on this forum, I see the oasis phenomenon you describe; they all seem to be swapping girls just generally going after low hanging fruit, so I have trouble getting inspired to post a message in them. It doesn't surprise me that the "monger angle" is so prevalent, especially considering the original purpose of this site. I just don't know why the Richmond thread has remained the exception. Perhaps it's that this thread was "the original" (there may be threads somewhere that were created prior to this one, but none were as active, as early, and I haven't seen any of them with nearly as much good information)?

The use of the sugar bowl as an extension of mongering threatens it in a number of ways. But, there is a bright side -- it's helpful to keep in mind that sugar daddies and babies have been around in one form or another as long as humans have. Technology is not going away, and technology is just facilitates something that was already happening and making it happen more efficiently. Even if something happens to SA, they can't get rid of all dating sites, and it happened on civy dating sites before SA, and it still does. It may be harder work, but there are some real treasurers to be had there. Even the recent story that was posted here about John Fox. He found a lot of his girls on OK Cupid which is not a sugaring site at all, and he was in his mid 60's.

I am new to the S A site. I am curious as to how much personal info should be revealed. Any do's or don't'S?

Thanks.

CM.

[QUOTE=CandyMan555;3525006]I am new to the S A site. I am curious as to how much personal info should be revealed. Any do's or don't'S?

Thanks.

CM.[/QUOTE]Anonymity for website sign ups (prepaid cards etc) is a frequently asked question, and I'm in the process of gathering survey results on how each of the SDs handle this. I currently only have four entries, and need to get more in order to justify adding a new FAQ entry (because it cannot be added to later). I will post what I have so far, in the event it can help you, and also maybe inspire some others to post their survey answers:

BikeRider discusses a service called "blur":

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?9746-quot-Sugarbabies-quot-quot-Arrangements-quot-Amateurs-or-Not&p=3396660&viewfull=1#post3396660[/URL]

Bowtie:

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?9746-quot-Sugarbabies-quot-quot-Arrangements-quot-Amateurs-or-Not&p=3411430&viewfull=1#post3411430[/URL]

YayaGogo:

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?9746-quot-Sugarbabies-quot-quot-Arrangements-quot-Amateurs-or-Not&p=3503820&viewfull=1#post3503820[/URL]

Kogal_lover:

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?9746-quot-Sugarbabies-quot-quot-Arrangements-quot-Amateurs-or-Not&p=3503133&viewfull=1#post3503133[/URL]


Short answer to your question is more anonymity = better. If nothing else, there could be a hack on the website member data like Ashley Madison, publishing info about you to the whole world, which most guys with a job or an SO don't want to happen.


-----------------------------------------------------
For those who want to, or can participate but missed it or forgot about it, below are the questions:

(#1) Prepaid credit cards and handling anonymous website memberships (if applicable to you):

A. Where do you buy yours? (Specific store, card label etc)?

B. How much balance do you typically load onto it?

C. What is the process you use to retain privacy / anonymity?

D. Does it require you to tie the card to a phone, and if so do you use a burner phone?

E. Any other helpful tips or things to be aware of you can add?

Thanks CM.

Anyone else seeing older profiles popping up in your search radius but recent location shows out of country? Examples below are profiles that I know haven't been active since I joined sa but recent locations such as Singapore and Germany are showing. This is 3rd weekend in row for this. This is just an example, probably close to a dozen or more.

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/271e6ee7-0518-5ead-6abc-c35a2aea1a4c[/URL]

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/8e5ddaab-341a-0358-178c-aa8aa3c0353c[/URL]

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/25eb84aa-b862-75ed-4407-3ce95057b9c4[/URL]

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/bfe778a3-4fff-345b-3bd5-27d3a6197be5[/URL]

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/baf9641a-fa25-400b-e0cc-740c64c62af6[/URL]

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/0487e708-4649-b4d8-147a-40c972bf6944[/URL]