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[QUOTE=Kenn Jack]The problem is that unless the ACLU fights this now, a monger who is nailed with this will have to go to court etc. and deal with all of the consequences of fighting it on appeal. This is IMHO a very bad piece of legislation and too far reaching.
Jack[/QUOTE]I'm no lawyer either but I've seen couple of things in this bill that the ACLU could and should get their teeth into. Let's hope.
It looks like the bill will be signed into law Monday or Tuesday.
Not one person was happy with the bill, so I am sure there is a bunch of legal loopholes in it as well. Lets hope that the first to get raided will stand up and fight, hopefully killing this law in federal court on constitution challenges.
I will be at the State House when the Governor signs it. Most likely wearing a turtle neck. The next law I work on is to require all women to wear turtle necks, exposing flesh is demeaning and should be outlawed.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donna_M._Hughes[/url]
The Professor.
Hey NewDay,
I did not quote anything in my post just stated facts in regards to what I know. The big thing is for anyone that is ever caught in one of these stings to not sing like a Canary. The police will give you the line, "just tell the truth and you will be on your way," or some other BS to get you to spill your guts. Just say I saw an ad for a massage I needed one and I came here to get it and that is all I got.
As for the language in the bill of "a known reputation" that will be the first thing that is challenged if they ever try to use it. Reputation is here say and here say is not admissible in court.
The only one at a real risk is the masseuse, what the Police will start to do and I just love this. They will come in as a customer maybe even several times get the TS a massage and try and get extras. If they get extras they will enjoy the benefit and come back later for the arrest when they have a warrant and if you are in there at that time they will try and get you to sing if you don't they may give you a BS ticket and you will be on your way.
[QUOTE=Newday53]Hey R
Pieces are missing from the quote you used. There is a special clause about reputation that may not be in Mich. law:
So maybe they all close shop - reopen under new name and we all be a lot more discreet when we report. I imagine this may happen in time anyway.
BTW I've seen that video and it is worth watching - bottom line is just don't ever say anything at all - it is your right.[/QUOTE]
Any time you are caught doing anything its "Schultz" time."I know nothing".
I guess you missed the day in civics class where they taught you about the three branches of government. The bill is not considered to be "PASSED" into law until the legislature votes on it and the governor signs it.
[QUOTE=Newday53]The bill says but projo says Note: "When the bill becomes law."
So, does the gov have to sign before it is actually illegal or is it now due to the passage?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ri Designer]I guess you missed the day in civics class where they taught you about the three branches of government. The bill is not considered to be "PASSED" into law until the legislature votes on it and the governor signs it.[/QUOTE]Thanks RI - I went to RI Assembly website and read "How a Bill Becomes a Law." Indeed it is sent to the gov. BUT it can become law without his signature.
[QUOTE]3. The Governor may allow a bill to become law without his signature. If the General Assembly is in session, he transmits the bill without his signature to the Secretary of State following the sixth day (Sunday excepted) that the measure has been presented to him. If the General Assembly has adjourned, the act becomes law unless it has been transmitted by the Governor to the Secretary of State with his disapproval in writing within ten (10) days after adjournment.[/QUOTE]
Hence, my confusion.
The Governor will sign it into law on Tuesday. It will be interesting to see if he will ask for it to be enforced ASAP when he signs it. I am sure there will be a press conference. Even if he does as for immediate enforcement, we will see if anyone listens. Does anyone listen to him anymore? He has been a lame duck for a while. The sense I get is they will probably do a raid, but not right away. I don't know what police department would want to be involved in this. It takes a bunch of hours, getting warrants, setting these places up. The economy is a factor. EP Police just laid off a bunch of cops, and the cops that are left in most cities don't think this is a "crime" worth going after. Providence & Pawtucket police have more important things like shootings to be worried about.
Most states have the policy not to go after indoor prostitution because it is a waste of time, and just go after the street walkers.
If the Gov. Has a press conference, and I am sure he will, listen closely to what he says.
[QUOTE=Newday53]So, now that your sources have done the deed do they expect it to be enforced or are they just content to not be embarrassed (utter BS) anymore?[/QUOTE]This has nothing to do with my sources now, they did their part. It will be enforced by the those who have the power to enforce, the police. The police have always had the power to enforce but they had no law to enforce, now they got it. The police departments, state, local and fed, were the ones who needed this. They got it. Absolutely will be enforced.
Does anyone know where the full text of the law can be found? I don't go to FS AMP's but have really enjoyed going to Lily's for the past few months. The providers I have encountered are among the nicest women I have ever met.
As I do not want to do anything that is criminal, I fear that the only safe thing to do is to avoid AMP's all together.
You guys are killing me. I'm going to be in Providence on business this week and was looking forward to making the rounds. You've got one of the best AMP scenes in the country. If the law passes, things will settle down as it does most other places in the country and you'll still be able to play. You'll just need to be known to them. Cuts down on the wide open variety of play you've got now by being able to go anywhere and score but you'll still have FS AMP's around.
I share your misery.
[QUOTE=Rlloyd] Just say I saw an ad for a massage I needed one and I came here to get it and that is all I got.[/QUOTE]
That won't work if the only ads for the place are on craigslist adult and phoenix
adult.
[QUOTE=Shilo]Does anyone know where the full text of the law can be found? I don't go to FS AMP's but have really enjoyed going to Lily's for the past few months. The providers I have encountered are among the nicest women I have ever met.
As I do not want to do anything that is criminal, I fear that the only safe thing to do is to avoid AMP's all together.[/QUOTE]Here you go, read it and weep.
[url]http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/BillText09/HouseText09/H5044B.pdf[/url]
[QUOTE=Donna Hughes]The economy is a factor. EP Police just laid off a bunch of cops, and the cops that are left in most cities don't think this is a "crime" worth going after.[/QUOTE] They should go after the criminals in the RI GA!
[QUOTE=DrGolfer]This has nothing to do with my sources now, they did their part. It will be enforced by the those who have the power to enforce, the police. The police have always had the power to enforce but they had no law to enforce, now they got it. The police departments, state, local and fed, were the ones who needed this. They got it. Absolutely will be enforced.[/QUOTE]I can not even count the instances I didn't even flinch going to either Lilly's ,NMS or DT when I would see the cruiser just parked right across the street near the entrance.
In the future it is now different.
I imagine there will be some planned big LE,media and politically staged raids and arrests for good press for this new law.
Only if there were a big connection to out of town meeting and conventions and AMP's...and this new law caused ironically a big drop in of out of staters buiz guys chosing to go to vegas or maybe Canada instead?
[QUOTE=Donna Hughes]I don't know what police department would want to be involved in this. It takes a bunch of hours, getting warrants, setting these places up. The economy is a factor. EP Police just laid off a bunch of cops, and the cops that are left in most cities don't think this is a "crime" worth going after. Providence & Pawtucket police have more important things like shootings to be worried about.
Most states have the policy not to go after indoor prostitution because it is a waste of time, and just go after the street walkers.
If the Gov. Has a press conference, and I am sure he will, listen closely to what he says.[/QUOTE]Said "screw it" and went out for some fun. Learned a couple of interesting things but don't feel I should broadcast it so real Senior Members can PM if you like. (Yeah, I know I'm still only a Regular Member but that should change in a few more weeks unless Jackson feels benevolent.)
Cheers!
[QUOTE=DrGolfer]This has nothing to do with my sources now, they did their part. It will be enforced by the those who have the power to enforce, the police. The police have always had the power to enforce but they had no law to enforce, now they got it. The police departments, state, local and fed, were the ones who needed this. They got it. Absolutely will be enforced.[/QUOTE]In my opinion, this law will not be enforced unless someone gets robbed, physically injured, or worse. I have not read any reports of this happening. It is incumbent on both the providers and the providees (is that a word? ) to keep their business discreet and above board.
[QUOTE=Westbayman2000]In my opinion, this law will not be enforced unless someone gets robbed, physically injured, or worse. I have not read any reports of this happening.[/QUOTE]
I fail to see why the police who asked for these laws would not enforce them within a reasonable time frame. Things will eventually find a way to even out and an uneasy balance will be struck but I'd be darn careful in the first few months after the law is signed.
Hi All -
Just some thoughts on what will be.
1. Once the law goes into effect, there will be a pent up demand for reversal of 30 years of the RI wild west. Could you imagine the criticism from the general public / media if the law goes into effect and no real reaction by LE? The hottest story is the aftermath reaction on many levels, many stories;
2. A couple of members mentioned in-your-face interviews, and you're right - interviews, photos of MA cars in known provider parking lots, hot lists of AMPs and other known providers, etc. Media and public attention to the story could last up to a year or longer, as milestones come into play - immediate, 30 days after, 6 months after, 1 year ago today ...
3. There will be a strong lingering market for adult service in RI, especially as places fold from LE pressure, media srutiny; The players will continue to exist, resurface under another operation especially as the # of facilities drop (less supply, more demand); Demand will drop a bit too as folks will be more cautious - not as many newcomers. No successful operations in the US will close shop right away and without riding out some of the first and second scenarios as they play out. Members are right - mama gotta know you and the safest places will be multi-floor buildings with entry-level camera security. Ownership / mama will be brushed up on "evacuation and lockdown" procedures in case of LE threat;
4. Will the market diminish or go away? This is up to LE strategy and effort. Places in SF Bay area, DC, CT, etc although illegal are rampant with activity. For areas that expend manifesto effort - All I can say is "remember the Chinatown Combat Zone"?
5. Look at the state of the union for places like MA - generally MPs are few, protective, little HE here and there, disappointing when compared to now RI; There are a good handful of indy's and organized services with a two-call system, etc. RI should be heading there ....
5. Expect resources like this RI board to equivocate reports.
6. This entire inevitable crackdown totally s*cks ...
[QUOTE=Tp1701]That won't work if the only ads for the place are on craigslist adult and phoenix adult.[/QUOTE]Not quite true - if you Google "lily spa providence ri" you'll see it is listed in many, many places. Just don't get caught with a Phoenix in your pocket, LOL!
You can always just say you Googled "massage providence ri" but, OOPS, not supposed to say anything, right?
[QUOTE=Ampdude 2003]Hi All -
Just some thoughts on what will be.
1. Once the law goes into effect, there will be a pent up demand for reversal of 30 years of the RI wild west. Could you imagine the criticism from the general public / media if the law goes into effect and no real reaction by LE? The hottest story is the aftermath reaction on many levels, many stories;[/QUOTE]Ya know, that was kind of an odd thing. I only heard one little blip on tv (RI channel) when the Senate passed it. On the Boston channels I heard nothing this time BUT when they FAILED to reach agreement last June it was news all over Boston & PVD tv.
Personally, with all the difficulties little RI faces, I think the taxpayers are going to be really pissed that beau coup tax dollars are going to be spent on something that 65% of those polled said to leave alone. I hope those ass**les who voted yes are getting their resumes ready because I think some of them may be looking for jobs next year after the election. Wait - there ARE NO JOBS in RI - good luck to them.
Again, I'm no lawyer, but I don't think we've heard the last of this debate as the new law is so far reaching with some parts bordering on civil rights violations that I can't imagine somebody not challenging a bust.
JMHO
[QUOTE=Overboard]You guys are killing me. I'm going to be in Providence on business this week and was looking forward to making the rounds. You've got one of the best AMP scenes in the country. If the law passes, things will settle down as it does most other places in the country and you'll still be able to play. You'll just need to be known to them. Cuts down on the wide open variety of play you've got now by being able to go anywhere and score but you'll still have FS AMP's around.
I share your misery.[/QUOTE]At least you can claim ignorance if you are caught in AMP! As a visitor on business you just googled Massage for the area near your meeting/hotel/convention. I recommend OS since they are on a 3rd floor and have camera/doors that would delay a LE Raid.
[QUOTE=Donna Hughes]The Governor will sign it into law on Tuesday. If the Gov. Has a press conference, and I am sure he will, listen closely to what he says.[/QUOTE]I've scoured the web and can not find any reference to when the gov. Will sign the bill except for "possibly as early next week".
Where did you see or find "Tuesday" specifically?
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[QUOTE=Ocean976]I fail to see why the police who asked for these laws would not enforce them within a reasonable time frame. Things will eventually find a way to even out and an uneasy balance will be struck but I'd be darn careful in the first few months after the law is signed.[/QUOTE]Where did you read that the police asked for this?
One guess as to the occupation of the typical customer of the AMPs.
This is a complex bill to understand, there are lots of mix-up and technicality we need a lawyer to interpret, prostitution and human Sex trafficking? , but how is this related to places like NMS, pleasant street and places that have no FS?
The questions I have and it sound funny or naïve question, Is there any where in the bill that they make a distinction between the FS places and the HE places like Lilly's.? . Some of the evidence LOE collects are condoms and so on, but HE places have no such a thing.
And if a customer caught in action, is this considers a Criminal offence? .
What are the rules of engagement, or even options, is this going to be under ground hoppy?
Would it possible that Leo will wok with AMP to convict customers?
Bad Situation regardless how look at it.
[QUOTE=Ricky 101]Has any one been to th fuji spa on 417 Atwell Ave let me know.[/QUOTE]
Yes, people have been to th [sic] fuji spa. Sheesh....next?
I find it amazing that the RI legislature would pass this when the services available in RI are just as available in other places, but I prefer to travel to RI because it is/was legal there and the money has a better chance of going to the girl than to a pimp or other organized crime. I have traveled to RI several times over the past two years and I estimate for every $1 I spend on services, I probably put $2. $2.5 into the RI economy through hotels, food, rental car, gas, and other things.
It will be interesting how this will affect the scene. You have to figure that the AMP scene will be gone, or at least FS will not be as widely available. Also, this will probably be the source of the crackdown as it seems the AMPs have been the target of the media stories. So you have to figure places like One and CH will be gone, which is sad because CH is my favorite. Anyway, I was planning another trip up there this coming weekend, but if the crackdown goes into effect on Tuesday it will be a while (if ever) before I visit the Ocean State.
Every amp in RI will be closed within 6 months from the passing. Plans are already being made, I am certain. I am sure the first few raids will be well publicized and after that either the other amps will fold under pressure of being prosecuted or the customer base will dry up due to fear of the same. Get out and enjoy it now. I am no lawyer and not sure of the chance of fighting it in court, but I am definitely not TOFTT.
Not a lawyer, but I read the entire bill carefully and sadly it appears that they have left "no" obvious openings. Just going to a place with a reputation as a sex biz can subject customers to arrest, and LE will say that any location reviewed here or on the other hobbyist sites will qualify as meeting that standard. Any form of sexual contact, even just a touch, is defined as a violation. No distinction made between HE and FS.
Unfortunately, there is one little-noticed provision that will guarantee that LE enforcement of this misguided legislation will not simmer down later: Last section of the bill requires LE agencies in RI to provide an annual report detailing number of arrests. The agencies, in turn, will use this inflated arrest record to justify higher budgets for expensive new toys. A bad situation.
Good luck!
[QUOTE=Samo123]This is a complex bill to understand, there are lots of mix-up and technicality we need a lawyer to interpret, prostitution and human Sex trafficking? , but how is this related to places like NMS, pleasant street and places that have no FS?
The questions I have and it sound funny or naïve question, Is there any where in the bill that they make a distinction between the FS places and the HE places like Lilly's.? . Some of the evidence LOE collects are condoms and so on, but HE places have no such a thing.
And if a customer caught in action, is this considers a Criminal offence? .
What are the rules of engagement, or even options, is this going to be under ground hoppy?
Would it possible that Leo will wok with AMP to convict customers?
Bad Situation regardless how look at it.[/QUOTE]
Heard there is going to be a meeting Tuesday between the spa lawyers, a number of providers and the gov. Not sure what they hope to or can accomplish but I applaud the effort.
Also heard that One is going to close down for 2 weeks. 2 weeks? This doesn't make sense.
Finally, I'm really pissed about the whole civil rights and personal freedoms aspect of this so I'll let one cat out of the bag:
Little old RI is going to bring in Mass. police to act as customers because so many RI LE were customers that they would blow their cover (no pun intended).
RI taxpayers should be made aware of where their money is going. Not only are the hotels, restaurants, bars, clubs, gas stations, etc. losing revenue due to the loss of a "business" but they are paying for out of state help to boot!
From projo referring to the multitude of garbage bills that the GA literally RAN through last week:
[QUOTE]There is little question that the governor will exercise his veto power, as he has at the end of every legislative session.[/QUOTE]Obi Wan, you're our only hope.
This was posted on the Boston board, some very interesting history as well as other information, not sure it is anywhere near as bleak as painted here, but to each their own.
[url]http://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1137&context=srhonorsprog[/url]
[QUOTE=Boston Ampfan]Not a lawyer, but I read the entire bill carefully and sadly it appears that they have left "no" obvious openings. Just going to a place with a reputation as a sex biz can subject customers to arrest, and LE will say that any location reviewed here or on the other hobbyist sites will qualify as meeting that standard. Any form of sexual contact, even just a touch, is defined as a violation. No distinction made between HE and FS.
Unfortunately, there is one little-noticed provision that will guarantee that LE enforcement of this misguided legislation will not simmer down later: Last section of the bill requires LE agencies in RI to provide an annual report detailing number of arrests. The agencies, in turn, will use this inflated arrest record to justify higher budgets for expensive new toys. A bad situation.
Good luck![/QUOTE]
ok-question. I know if past raids here and elsewhere LE (otherwise known as sleezebag) is not allowed to touch the provider. I'm guessing this is where the touch me to prove your not LE before anything gets discussed comes in.
Scenario a - client goes into AMP and gets bodyrub. (note not massage). Provider says or does nothing to initiate the 'money or sex' discussion unless/until the client puts his hand on her privates. At this point I would think that he has gone over the line as to touching the provider and the finish can be done. Again nothing has to be said just understood between the client and provider. Hopefully the client will not be an idiot and will leave a tip. Again from what I've understood the 'sleezebag' is not allowed to touch. will some idiot try and leave without paying...no doubt but it seems safer for the provider.
Scenario B - non-amp provider. Again before all gets started nothing is said. The client comes over for a get together. No money shown or talked about. The client "proves' he isn't 'sleezebag' by touching her privates and then the show goes on. Again this is precipated by the theory that LE isn't allowed to touch the girl (provates at least) and if he did then she could cry foul or assault ect......
Just wondering.......
[QUOTE=Kenn Jack]This was posted on the Boston board, some very interesting history as well as other information, not sure it is anywhere near as bleak as painted here, but to each their own.
[url]http://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1137&context=srhonorsprog[/url][/QUOTE]
So what da ya think. How much was she paid by all these 'save the world' groups to do this? Big bucks I'm sure. Most colleges and professors will steer real clear of these type of 'research projects'.
[QUOTE=Westbayman2000]Where did you read that the police asked for this?
One guess as to the occupation of the typical customer of the AMPs.[/QUOTE]
That some of the local LE establishment is getting laid for free. We do know that they are getting some nice political donations and I'm sure some are getting something on the side.
Now that would be a great thesis to write. How many of the customers are part of the establishment that is fighting so hard to get rid of them and how much is going to these crooked people who voted them out? I mean we have donations, look the other way donations and I'm sure some ownership stake. After all we know what a non-corrupt goverment runs RI and particually Prov.
Sleezebags, great description btw, are allowed to lie. SB and provider alone in a room, who is to say what really happened. Prosecuter and judge going to take the word of a provider over a highly respected member of the le community? I don't think so. He's going to pop a nut then arrest her.
Before the end of the month there will be a perp walk on TV, guaranted
[QUOTE=Gansett]Sleezebags, great descrition btw, are allowed to lie. SB and provider alone in a room, who is to say what really happened. Prosecuter and judge going to take the word of a provider over a highly respected member of the le community? I don't think so. He's going to pop a nut then arrest her.
Before the end of the month there will be a perp walk on TV, guaranted[/QUOTE]
It must have been a slip of the tongue......you said 'highly respected member of the LE community'. Isn't that an onymoron?
[QUOTE=Stressed Out]So what da ya think. How much was she paid by all these 'save the world' groups to do this? Big bucks I'm sure. Most colleges and professors will steer real clear of these type of 'research projects'.[/QUOTE]
The faculty sponsor was Donna Hughes, who has made a career out of conflating prostitution with human trafficking. The data source was us.
Talk about strange bedfellows!
[QUOTE=Boston P A]The faculty sponsor was Donna Hughes, who has made a career out of conflating prostitution with human trafficking. The data source was us.
Talk about strange bedfellows![/QUOTE]
If I recall correctly our good friend PZ gave her interviews, then he gave her the PZ experience for which she was so greatful for that she paid him!!! :)
I have read the "thesis" and anyone who does so will see that her agenda is clear, as you have said.
Call me naive if you wish, but I've seen no evidence that the ladies at the places I've visited were being coerced into their line of work, or that they were under legal age. I would not be happy if I did detect this. I, for one, would find it repulsive to pay for the companionship of a lady who was forced or coerced in any way, or who was not old enough to make her own decisions! What's better in life than two adults freely agreeing to have a good time together? Not much, IMHO.
[QUOTE=Boston P A]The faculty sponsor was Donna Hughes, who has made a career out of conflating prostitution with human trafficking. The data source was us.
Talk about strange bedfellows![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Boston Ampfan]I have read the "thesis" and anyone who does so will see that her agenda is clear, as you have said.[/QUOTE]It seems the author may also be gay - yet another biased view:[QUOTE]Thank you to my partner, De***ee[/QUOTE]