"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=TravelinSD;3399654]There's an extensive discussion of this going back 5 years on another site. Very detailed and a lot of reports of success. Most who do this wouldn't even consider guys on here to be SDs. Most of what goes on here would be called "Hookers on retainer. " My definition of the SD / SB relationship isn't as strict as theirs, but I see their viewpoint.

Girls in the wild are not as jaded and most really don't have any idea of expectations. Most of the time allowances are not given directly as cash, but more in the form of paying bills or other types of help.

I'm currently trying to go this route more and have let my premium membership on SA expire. I've never had much "game", but being in the sugar world has boosted my confidence, so I'm giving it a go. SA has really turned into more pros and GPS and is getting harder and harder to find that diamond in the rough. I have had cards printed, but haven't given many out. I would be interested in starting a discussion of this here and see if any others are giving this a try.
[/QUOTE]Are you sure the discussion you're referring to is geared toward the married or LTR SD? The reason I ask is because there is usually a distinct line between sugar culture and pickup artist culture. Becoming a skilled PUA will help you get laid, paid or not paid, meaning that finding SBs in the wild (or better yet using formative elements to create an SB from someone who doesn't yet realize she could be one). In fact, once you get good at it you might actually find it works to your disadvantage if you're looking for an NSA arrangement, because the ones you meet in the wild or flip will not have that predetermined sense of attachment that girls who have labeled themselves SBs will have.

If you're single, then by all means go for it! I think for most married guys it's a bad idea. The art of pickup requires more skill than finding an SB on a website but it draws a different kind of girl as you've pointed out. I would expect there to be more of an attachment, because the very things you did to charm the panties off can cause her to cling to you, which is not what a guy with an SO wants. If you regularly visit a particular city, you might have time and opportunity to line up some interesting opportunities, but it should be a city you've got no other ties to (like the wife doesn't go there with you, you don't own property there, etc).

When I travel, I usually don't have this opportunity because its usually 2-4 nights here or there. I prefer to already have a few on-line contacts already lined up and ready to meet when I hit the city. There have been times when I met a stripper after I got to town that was good enough to cancel my scheduled SB M&Gs. There have also been times when I met a cute store clerk or waitress that made her availability obvious, and I was tempted to pursue but I did not. Why? With the stripper I can see exactly what I'm getting. At a business with any sort of dress code, I have much less knowledge of what the girl looks like undressed than I have with a stripper or an SB that's sent me a bunch of qualifying photos like bikini or other revealing clothes. I've been in situations where the body doesn't match the face -- its no fun, and I'm not willing to take that risk.

The big issue however, is simply the risk for an SD with an SO. Where I go to the gym, I park my car in a area with less activity, just to avoid door dings. From that area I pass the back entrance to many other businesses, including a restaurant. Once in a while, when I'm leaving the gym, there is this hot stunner blonde, about age 20, all by herself having a smoke behind the restaurant. She consistently has that bored and struggling look, and it actually pains me to keep walking to my car instead of striking up a conversation with her -- that's a perfect time to hit up a waitress, when she is on a smoke break. Plus the glances she gives me tells all -- this girl has "looking for an SD" written all over her. But I can't, this restaurant is only a few miles from where I live and I go there with the SO sometimes. Just too close to home.

Travelling SD, I have been doing the same thing. I've been looking at meeting women online and offline. I never played the bowl exclusively. I continue to meet and talk to women that I encounter in person. I've found that the bowl definitely give me a confidence boost that translates. One of the women that I met. She was cashier at a local grocery store that I use to visit often. While at dinner she complimented me on how confident, I was when we talked. Honestly before I didn't even know it. But I realize afterwards that I stopped being afraid to approach women started speaking my mind and being myself. Rejection didn't even bother me anymore. But that I was really shy and it took time for me to come out of my shell around women that I didn't know.

I use my strengths more often. I very good at striking up a conversation. I feel as though the ability to hold and maintain a conversation with these women goes a long way. That's something that they rarely get from men their age or just men in general. My approach is to accomplish two things. I try to connection with them through either a common interests or an experience that they may be going through that happen to me. It's easy when you're having extensive conversation. It just makes women feel more comfortable and that they know much longer. Even though it may have just been a week since you met them. This process definitely takes time. I have 19 year old college sophomore. She just wanted someone she could confided in and talk to. Something like a mentor and friend, she wasn't looking for a serious relationship and wanted to enjoy her youth. Perfect match and no talk of money. But I do plan on taking her out and providing gifts and other things along way. I plan to met up with her next time that I'm in town.

I've mentioned this before. Many of the large hotel chains now have apps that let you check in online. When you check in you can pick your check in time, as early as 8 AM. I wouldn't always count on super early, but I've never had trouble getting in by 10 AM. Stick with hotels that don't do a lot of conference booking and you should be fine.

I travel extensively for business. Most of the hotels I stay at are mid to upper tier hotels, I. E. Hyatts, Marriotts, Sheratons, Hiltons, etc. I have virtually never been refused early check in as long as they had a room available. Of course my stays are always for multiple nights, so that may make a big difference. I'm staying at a Hyatt now and checked in at 9 am the morning I arrived. Yet the Super 8 in my small hometown wouldn't check me in at 2 pm once, LOL.

[QUOTE=GuyInTheCorner;3400533]I've mentioned this before. Many of the large hotel chains now have apps that let you check in online. When you check in you can pick your check in time, as early as 8 AM. I wouldn't always count on super early, but I've never had trouble getting in by 10 AM. Stick with hotels that don't do a lot of conference booking and you should be fine.[/QUOTE]

When I first got into the bowl, I was amazed by the number of submissive girls, and didn't really know how to handle them. I'm not naturally dominant, and posts and searches about what to do with these babies brought nothing. I've done a few mild things, spanks and hair pulling, but this is one anyone could do and isn't too out there.

I took an old neck tie to the FC that I didn't really care for anymore, but it's silk so it feels good. I told the baby to lay face down on the bed, pulled her arms across her back, and then tied them together. One I fucked that way (after, she went on and on about how hot that was), another I eventually got on top. As a bonus, the tie hanging down from her hands tickled me in a great way. FarFar away.

For any of the Richmond brothers who venture over to Roanoke, Christianburg and Wytheville. I can pass on intel for BlondeBaby1998, met with her and a 19 yo friend (fmf) this past Monday morning in Wyetheville at a local motel. Pm me for details on her and a few others I have searched out. I don't get up that way often but did some advance SA messaging with POTs for two recent travel trips that way.

I've been doing a lot of initial contacts on SA recently b / c of my hall pass (see a separate post), and made an interesting observation. After a year in the bowl, I have my initial contact message honed pretty well. Its fairly detailed, b / c that's the kind of guy I am. I have gotten a few responses, all from pretty young ones, that basically said stuff like I was coming on too strong or there was too much in the message. One thought she would be kind and 'teach' me how to contact a woman - limit myself to a paragraph of 5-6 sentences. LOL.

The point is well taken, though. That same initial contact message I used with and got an excellent response from a totally beautiful 30 YO blonde. This is the way I think of it. If a girl has a relatively brief profile herself, possibly indicating she has the attention-span of a gnat (she is a millennial after all!), those may be the ones who merit a brief initial message and then a follow-up exchange regarding the other pieces of info we're trying to get and give.

[QUOTE=AlMelrose;3356024][URL]http://predatorsalerts.com[/URL]

I typed it wrong, here is a link. When I searched my number about a week ago it this was first on search now down to page 2 .[/QUOTE]Someone posted me here not long ago, and now getting bs texts with poorly worded threats. Anyone had any luck with getting this stuff taken down? DMCA takedowns or anything?

That makes sense to base your first message on the length and detail of their profile.

I've found if I'm too demanding, too long winded or too generic in my initial message I have less success.

I look for newbies, that are reluctant / cautious, have dated or been attracted to an older man before, aren't desperate, aren't looking only for the highest bidder and are looking to be treated better than most young guys can today.

My initial message compliments them on their looks and something in their profile (so they know I read it and it's not a cut and paste). I ask them to read my profile and to message me if interested.

My profile is pretty detailed with a description of me, what I do, my interests and what I'm looking for. I sprinkle some humor in to lighten the tone and not come across arrogant.

I get about 80% replies. I thank them for messaging me back, ask about their experience with and interest in older men and I give them access to my private pics. I'm looking to see if they are genuinely attracted to older men and if they are attracted to me. I filter out if they are too experienced, jaded or express no attraction to older men or me.

I then tell about my experience, provide more detail about what I'm looking for and ask what they are looking for. I'm letting them know I've done this before and that I want more of a FWB "situationship". I'm trying to filter out escorts and GPS girls at this point and draw out the reluctant girls not sure about what they want or about how this works.

I express enthusiasm if they are looking for something similar, explain my reasons for being on the site and ask why they are on the site. I make it clear I'm looking for a relationship that includes companionship and intimacy, but that I'm not available for anything serious. I bring up intimacy for the first time so as not to come across too desperate or creepy, but make sure intimacy is part of the expectation. I am filtering out "platonic only", desperate girls or girls looking for a serious relationship or marriage at this point.

Based on their reply, I let them know again what I like about them. I let them know I understand that women are looking for $ help, but many also want the experience with a successful older gentleman. I let them know I don't have the biggest budget, but that previous girls really liked the experience. I end with a joke to see how they reply.

If they reply positively, I ask to take the convo offline. If they've gone this far, I get their number almost 95% of the time.

The process takes 12-15 messages over one day or as long as a month. The faster they reply, the more enthusiasm it shows, but slow replies sometimes shows apprehension about the site or sugar dating which can be good for me.

It's worked best for me to be confident without being arrogant, respectful, humorous, enthusiastic and in control of the conversation. I make it clear intimacy is part of what I expect without being too direct or demanding. I never discuss finances other than to mention I know that's why women are on the site.

This process has worked well for me and I have refined it over my time in the bowl. I have a very high success rate. My target demographic is very attractive, submissive and exotic 18-26 year olds. Because of the age, I get a lot of flakyness and cold feet, but I enjoy the challenge.

I've had several long term SBs and many short or one timers along the way. I've dated athletes, cheerleaders, published models, bikini and fitness contestants, strippers, Hooters girls and beautiful college coeds.

I'm in my early 50s, in good shape and considered good looking for my age. I'm amazed at how attracted young women can be to an older man.

My confidence from the bowl has spilled over into civi dating and I apply the same concepts to picking up young women I get to know at restaurants, stores and bars I frequent. Confidence, charm and humor go along way.



[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3406082]I've been doing a lot of initial contacts on SA recently b / c of my hall pass (see a separate post), and made an interesting observation. After a year in the bowl, I have my initial contact message honed pretty well. Its fairly detailed, b / c that's the kind of guy I am. I have gotten a few responses, all from pretty young ones, that basically said stuff like I was coming on too strong or there was too much in the message. One thought she would be kind and 'teach' me how to contact a woman - limit myself to a paragraph of 5-6 sentences. LOL.

The point is well taken, though. That same initial contact message I used with and got an excellent response from a totally beautiful 30 YO blonde. This is the way I think of it. If a girl has a relatively brief profile herself, possibly indicating she has the attention-span of a gnat (she is a millennial after all!), those may be the ones who merit a brief initial message and then a follow-up exchange regarding the other pieces of info we're trying to get and give.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3406082]I've been doing a lot of initial contacts on SA recently b / c of my hall pass (see a separate post), and made an interesting observation. After a year in the bowl, I have my initial contact message honed pretty well. Its fairly detailed, b / c that's the kind of guy I am. I have gotten a few responses, all from pretty young ones, that basically said stuff like I was coming on too strong or there was too much in the message. One thought she would be kind and 'teach' me how to contact a woman - limit myself to a paragraph of 5-6 sentences. LOL.

The point is well taken, though. That same initial contact message I used with and got an excellent response from a totally beautiful 30 YO blonde. This is the way I think of it. If a girl has a relatively brief profile herself, possibly indicating she has the attention-span of a gnat (she is a millennial after all!), those may be the ones who merit a brief initial message and then a follow-up exchange regarding the other pieces of info we're trying to get and give.[/QUOTE]As contradictory as it may seem coming from someone who regularly posts detailed / verbose messages, I have found that shorter messages work better for millennial and generation-Y girls when it comes to initial contact.

Why? Because a staggering number of girls born in these eras have the attention span of a gnat. It's not even their fault, it's a side effect of the generation they were born in. Kids these days are taught that they are special snowflakes, and to retreat to a safe zone when something inconveniences them. So, if they encounter something that exercises their reading comprehension skills, they often retreat to "TLDR;" (too long didn't read).

They aren't all that way, and a lot of times after you have made a good first impression on them, they will pry for more information -- I see that as a good thing when they do. But, it's better to start out with extremely concise messages and let them try to unwrap you rather than vice versa.

I find dual purpose in initiating contact this way. Not only do shorter messages get more initial bites, it can act as a gauge to tell me what type of girl she is. If she is the one that leans toward longer messages with increasing depth, then it tells me a lot about both her intellectual capacity, how much personal investment she puts into each arrangement (greater personal investment usually translates to better sexual performance in my experiences), and perhaps most importantly how interested she is in me specifically. If a girl starts asking me things like what's the most recent book I've read, then all other things being equal I know I've probably stumbled onto something good -- that indicates to me she is not just a serial dater, nor is only in it for the money.

So, my advice is start out brief, and unfold more detail once you've confirmed your audience is smart enough to absorb it.

Long messages act like an idiot-filter. Some people just won't read them, it hurts their brain. Sometimes that's what you want. However, when looking for SBs, I think we generally don't want to limit ourselves to smart girls -- they don't need to be smart to be a lot of fun in bed. So by starting out short and expanding detail based on the audience, we are casting a wider net.

Hey guys, I've gotten into the Sugarbaby thing and have done it a while back. I have an SA account that previously took a prepaid card. I don't think they allow that anymore. Any thoughts on how to best pay? I'm planning on using it for a month or so then bow out because I tend to have longer term relationships. I've heard cancelling those off those memberships are really difficult so I'd prefer to do something that doesn't show up and has an automatic stop. J.

[QUOTE=Jayb20;3410666]Hey guys, I've gotten into the Sugarbaby thing and have done it a while back. I have an SA account that previously took a prepaid card. I don't think they allow that anymore. Any thoughts on how to best pay? I'm planning on using it for a month or so then bow out because I tend to have longer term relationships. I've heard cancelling those off those memberships are really difficult so I'd prefer to do something that doesn't show up and has an automatic stop. J.[/QUOTE]SA doesn't renew automatically, if you pay for a month that's what you get, no cancelli g or getting a refund. As far as prepaid cards plenty of post that address that but they accept prepaid.

Guys, thank you for all the responses on the daytime hotel option portion of the survey. I have updated the FAQ / Index / Highlights with links to all of the responses I was able to collect. If I missed one that's been posted in the last couple of weeks, please let me know and I'll figure out a solution.

Prepaid credit cards and similar are a frequently recurring topic. If you can contribute, please do. I personally don't do anything special, I use a regular credit card because my SO does not have access to my statements, so I'm not able to contribute here.

Below is the credit card section of the survey. So far I have one response (thanks BikeRider) regarding the service blur stored for the index, but we need many more in order to create a useful FAQ / Index entry:

(#1) Prepaid credit cards and handling anonymous website memberships (if applicable to you):

A. Where do you buy yours? (Specific store, card label etc)?

B. How much balance do you typically load onto it?

C. What is the process you use to retain privacy / anonymity?

D. Does it require you to tie the card to a phone, and if so do you use a burner phone?

E. Any other helpful tips or things to be aware of you can add?

I have been in the sugar bowl off and on for 3 years. I wouldn't say I've been successful. I had one on and off SB for almost 3 years. She was an attractive 6-8 in looks AA female, tiny and skinny, We had porn star level sex including mind-blowing rimming. I knew she just thought of me as just a way to pay her bills in an emergency. I wouldn't hear from her for a couple of weeks and then she would have an emergency that she needed money right away. I should have never started sending her money w / o meeting. The last year there has been a lot more sending money than meeting. I cut communication off with her about a month ago and have been looking for a new SB. I'm on a limited budget and am not getting a room at the Hilton and 5 star restaurants w / $$$ allowances. I'm aiming for Best Western and chain restaurants w / 100 per meet. I really don't care if a woman speaks Russian or Korean (read a profile where woman bragged about how many languages she spoke), I just want porn star type sex with a hot woman. What are some signs to look for that a woman will be content w / a small per meet allowance? One thing I've looked at is if she is listed foreign places she wants to go or lists luxury clothing / items she owns or wants. I've communicated with a few promising POTs. I'm supposed to meet one on Saturday who is happy w / 100/ meet. Do most of the experienced guys here delay talking about allowance until you meet? If she is insistent on talking about allowance, do you drop her?

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3401535]When I first got into the bowl, I was amazed by the number of submissive girls, and didn't really know how to handle them. I'm not naturally dominant, and posts and searches about what to do with these babies brought nothing. I've done a few mild things, spanks and hair pulling, but this is one anyone could do and isn't too out there.

I took an old neck tie to the FC that I didn't really care for anymore, but it's silk so it feels good. I told the baby to lay face down on the bed, pulled her arms across her back, and then tied them together. One I fucked that way (after, she went on and on about how hot that was), another I eventually got on top. As a bonus, the tie hanging down from her hands tickled me in a great way. FarFar away.[/QUOTE]The last time I had sex w / my previous SB for the last time, I decided to indulge some of her BDSM fantasies. She always complained my dick was too big and it would take me 10+ min to get it in. That time I choked her (which she had asked for before) and had rough sex with her. She was so excited that after sex she jumped on my dick while I was standing next to the bed. She also liked to gve me rough deep throat. None of this improved our relationship at all, but at least I had some hot memories of our last time together. Most young women love the "Shades of Gray" novels. I have seen many young women where I work, reading and discussing these books.