"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3352610]See JZlizards post, too. He likes Hushed. The issue is not whether it appears on a phone bill. The issue is leaving evidence on the phone that could be resurrected easily, and the app going into other parts of your regular phone and potentially revealing your identity to the SB.[/QUOTE]There is no phone bill per se with Hushed (no record of which calls were made). The app purchases for Hushed do appear on a your credit card bill, but if you can get a CC to purchase other things anonymously (SA membership, etc), this should not be much of a hurdle for you. Also, if you pay attention to the sales and deep discounts that appear regularly, it's very easy to renew a number up to 4-5 years out, unless you text a great deal. I have multiple numbers, one of which is funded through the next 1450 days (about 4 years) with 7000+ unused texts, all for peanuts, I paid about 40 bucks to refill it that far. If you need more texts, just convert the SB to e-mail for everything except last-minute quick texts right before a meet. It's just as easy to add a "stealth" email account to your phone (both for you and her), and delete it during risky times (same with Hushed app).

So to make clear what that means -- no charges on the CC required for the next four years, so as long as you have the ability to hide the initial download of the app and a few refill purchases, it's not a problem you need to deal with often.

There is another possible solution here (similar to the strategy you mentioned with dual physical phones): set up two separate hushed accounts (two different burner emails, one is your real SD mail and one is a red herring for the SO). Purchase a couple of phone refills under both the red herring account and the real SD account. Show the SO the hushed app and the number, saying "I just want to explain why I did this so you don't think I've got a secret life or anything" and come up with some excuse for needing a second number, like you frequently deal with people at your work that you don't want to have your primary number, or you wanted to call a restaurant to complain about their service anonymously, etc. This will explain away the initial charges to Hushed. Just be sure to remember to log out of the SD account on Hushed and back into your safe account before letting your phone anywhere near your SO. For a fallback safety mechanism and peace of mind, lock the Hushed app with a PIN that's different from your phone PIN, then if the SO wants to see, just say "aw fuck me I locked myself out, I must have entered the wrong PIN", then act like you just came up with an idea on how to fix the situation and let her see it. Delete the Hushed app, then download it again, logging in under the safe account. She's none the wiser.

There is no evidence left on the phone, when you delete it it's deleted. Nothing is downloaded again until you log in again with your SD account. Be aware it will ask you if you want the Hushed app to pull in your regular phone contacts, just say no, it won't bug you about this again.

But there is no cross-talk of data between Hushed, other apps, or the phone itself to worry about.

Now, the same vulnerabilities that exist with any app or even prepaid cc's do still apply. Anonymity is better than with Google-anything, but just like with any app that runs on any phone, usage could be linked to your IP address if you ever used this technique to do something bad, but remember my advice revolves around not doing anything illegal in the first place. Yes there will be texts between you and your girls and a call log somewhere in the cloud, but since it's not directly tied to your real identity it's as safe as any other stealth technique that gets discussed here.

Not trying to talk anyone into Hushed that already has a system they like, and it's not fool proof, I'm just saying it's probably a fraction of the risk that an SD normally has to take anyway, booking hotels and so on. If someone is careful enough to hide all the other stuff that must be hidden in this hobby, they can easily handle the care an app like this needs. A physical secondary phone is a lot riskier, if she finds it she finds it and she's going to demand to see what's on it.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3352610]See JZlizards post, too. He likes Hushed. The issue is not whether it appears on a phone bill. The issue is leaving evidence on the phone that could be resurrected easily, and the app going into other parts of your regular phone and potentially revealing your identity to the SB.

Of course a burner is a smoking gun. That's why I mention stuff like hiding in plain sight. I seriously entertain the idea of getting a phone identical to my own civi phone, using the TracPhone 'bring your own phone' deal to get my sugar # onto it, and then I just have to keep track of which is which. Seeing the phone isn't an immediate alarm bell.

Many people recommend having Google voice on your burner, that way you can control wild babies who are blowing up your phone, etc. I tend not to go for ones that have those risks, so this hasn't been important to me yet. But, I have several POTs giving me kik and whatsapp handles, and it is a pain not to be able to take them up on it.[/QUOTE]I'm a big fan of hiding in plain sight. If your SO finds a phone "hidden", it's going to be a lot harder to explain.

As for hushed, I don't see a reason to pay for something if Google will give it to you for free (provided you're ok with GOOG tracking. Although hushed is probably tracking as well).

I like the burner+google voice because it gives me pretty strong separation from my real world and my sugar world. Not everyone can explain away a second phone though.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3352872]
As for hushed, I don't see a reason to pay for something if Google will give it to you for free (provided you're ok with GOOG tracking. Although hushed is probably tracking as well).
[/QUOTE]There's a couple of important differences between the two. Google's entire revenue base is created by tracking you. Hushed makes their money by charging for phone and texting services. Google's business objectives are in conflict with privacy at a fundamental level. Compare that to Hushed -- privacy is the product they are really selling here, that's the whole purpose of the app.

Think of Google as anti-privacy. Hushed is pro-privacy.

Free of payment is never really free with Internet services. They have to make money one way or another or they can't stay afloat. So if a service is free, you are exchanging your privacy for use of that service.

So, for those of us SDs w / many decades behind us, and SOs, there is always an issue of what happens when we reveal our true photos to POTs. Reality bites, man. Sometimes, they go silent after. Ouch! It's just part of the deal in a game where appearance does matter, in both directions. We have to live with it. Having many months of experience w / this w / POTs of a wide range of ages, I'll make these observations. The 30's girls just continue messaging after the reveal and you know you are OK in the looks department. The young ones (19-25's) that I've eventually gotten to at least the M&G have almost invariably said 'Handsome' in response to my pic (I wear a nice suit, which helps, but remember I'm a bald 60+). I know it isn't an issue and proceed. That doesn't mean I look like Brad Pitt.

Others have posted that if a girl will M&G with you, she has already decided your appearance is such that she's willing to fuck you if the rest of the arrangement is to her liking.

Well, I will have to agree with what you have said here. I have been chatting with a 19 yo for little over 2 weeks now. The SA site has my suit pic but face blurred. She clearly knew she is chatting w a potential SD who is no George Clooney look alike. And, for that matter she is not a hot chick by any generous rating scale. She is chubby looking and at best a high 6. Its her first time and she was not getting much attention perhaps due to her average looks. Anyways, I was willing to give her a try and we covered a lot of ground over texting including how ready she is to spend some intimate time with a mature gentleman. To everything she said yes except that she wanted to have sex maybe after couple of meetings. Which was OK with me. Anyways just before we were ready to meet she asks for a clear face pic. And, I tell her I'll sure send one to you but don't ghost on me. She lols and says she is well aware and mature than most girls to act silly like that. Then I send her a very normal pic and guess what she blocks my number within minutes. No further response to any of my messages. She even deleted her profile on SA. LOL. I felt like an Idiot having spent so much time on her for nothing!

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3353262]So, for those of us SDs w / many decades behind us, and SOs, there is always an issue of what happens when we reveal our true photos to POTs. Reality bites, man. Sometimes, they go silent after. Ouch! It's just part of the deal in a game where appearance does matter, in both directions. We have to live with it. Having many months of experience w / this w / POTs of a wide range of ages, I'll make these observations. The 30's girls just continue messaging after the reveal and you know you are OK in the looks department. The young ones (19-25's) that I've eventually gotten to at least the M&G have almost invariably said 'Handsome' in response to my pic (I wear a nice suit, which helps, but remember I'm a bald 60+). I know it isn't an issue and proceed. That doesn't mean I look like Brad Pitt.

Others have posted that if a girl will M&G with you, she has already decided your appearance is such that she's willing to fuck you if the rest of the arrangement is to her liking.[/QUOTE]

I've been chatting with this Pot for about a week now. And put of the blue she ask me. How long I've been on site. She actually the first person to ask me that question. It's been over two years for me but I haven't been active on it that entire time. I basically paid my membership met a few people, deactivate my account and log back on when I wanted to meet new SB.

I was just curious to know, if anybody else was ask that question before. I wanted to know how they dealth with the question. She's been kind of rattled with the number of men contacting her and their approach. She calls them creeps. I ended up messaging her first day on the site before she started receiving so many messages. So, I feel it may have done implications on what she may think.

That's why I prefer to exchange pics early in in the conversation. I'd hate to waste a lot of time only to find out her appearance or my I appearance isn't acceptable.

I've dropped more pots because appearance than I've been dropped because of appearance. My photos are genuine and not overly flattering so they get the real me. If they proceed, there is not surprises.

[QUOTE=Lebruno;3353285]Well, I will have to agree with what you have said here. I have been chatting with a 19 yo for little over 2 weeks now. The SA site has my suit pic but face blurred. She clearly knew she is chatting w a potential SD who is no George Clooney look alike. And, for that matter she is not a hot chick by any generous rating scale. She is chubby looking and at best a high 6. Its her first time and she was not getting much attention perhaps due to her average looks. Anyways, I was willing to give her a try and we covered a lot of ground over texting including how ready she is to spend some intimate time with a mature gentleman. To everything she said yes except that she wanted to have sex maybe after couple of meetings. Which was OK with me. Anyways just before we were ready to meet she asks for a clear face pic. And, I tell her I'll sure send one to you but don't ghost on me. She lols and says she is well aware and mature than most girls to act silly like that. Then I send her a very normal pic and guess what she blocks my number within minutes. No further response to any of my messages. She even deleted her profile on SA. LOL. I felt like an Idiot having spent so much time on her for nothing![/QUOTE]

If the phone options weren't already clear as mud, consider this. There are some phones out there with a dual SIM card option. So you get the full features of a second phone, without the hassle of trying to hide it. I think they may be configurable to allow each sim to have its own profile of sorts.

Hope this helps.

Scoop.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3353262]So, for those of us SDs w / many decades behind us, and SOs, there is always an issue of what happens when we reveal our true photos to POTs. Reality bites, man. Sometimes, they go silent after. Ouch! It's just part of the deal in a game where appearance does matter, in both directions. We have to live with it. [/QUOTE]There is a documentary out there (the name escapes me at the moment) where they study what attracts one sex to another. They basically prove that the female perception of what is physically attractive or not on a man is shaped more by his career position and financial status than his actual appearance. They proved this by randomly showing women photos of various men, some of them hunky male actor types, and some of them chubby below average guy-next-door types, but during the first test they did not put stats like job title under the photos. As expected, without listing career status, the Brad Pitt lookalikes would get high scores, while the average guys got lower scores. Then in the second test, they put nice job titles and salaries on the average guys, and job titles like "retail clerk" with income of $25 k on the hunky actor guys. You can probably guess what happened -- when a different group of random women were polled, suddenly the hunky guys were a 4 out of 10 and the successful guys were in the 8 to 10 range.

Point is, your status matters far more than your looks, so there is really no reason to be concerned about your appearance, and unless you're elephant man or something, as long as you're fit, most flaws in your appearance can be overcome by working your status to your advantage. If you're not in reasonable shape, that will definitely work against you, but not just at superficial level, it will affect her mental perception negatively. Being overweight for example gives off an impression of "lazy" or "unmotivated", or lack of willpower over controlling something as simple as your diet, or just not being smart enough to eat healthy, none of which are attractive to women. It can be overcome to a certain extent, but its the easiest aspect of your appearance to improve, assuming it needs improvement.

There will be times that a girl goes silent after seeing your pics, but chances are it's not because of what you think. A number of things may be going on. She might have had some unrealistic fantasy in her mind about what she was going to meet on the site, and because you don't look like Richard Gere in the early 90's', she needs time to reflect. It doesn't mean she's lost for good, she might contact you again or respond to your contact later on. A lot of these girls join the site "just to see what's out there" and are too skittish to follow through (younger ones especially). Also, she might think you look very good but you're just not her type. I experience this often when looking for girls. I can see a girl on there I think is gorgeous, but not really the specific type I'm looking for. Categorizing people based on their pics sometimes makes us prioritize them differently than if we met them and spent time with them in person, but unfortunately its a fact in all forms of on-line dating. There have been times I unintentionally stopped responding to a girl that I did think was hot and I was interested in after she sent additional pics, and no doubt some of them thought there was something wrong with the photos they sent. In reality, I just forgot to respond because I was busy / had a lot going on, or my schedule changed such that I wasn't planning to be in their city, etc.

There can be many reasons this happens. The important thing is to never take it personally and assume your appearance is the issue, because that's only allowing the process to erode your confidence, and confidence is EVERYTHING in all types of dating, sugar or civy.

If girls are going dark very often right after you send her your pics, try lowering your standards a bit to see what happens (go for the 5-6's instead of the 8-9's), and work your way up to the 8-9's when your confidence has been repaired by the 5-6 range girls.

There is a great deal more to what makes a girl's pussy wet than just the way you look. Looks never hurt, all things equal, but its not the component that matters most.

The first thing I would recommend to SDs is to take a look at how you're presenting your career success. Don't lie about career status or net worth, but for example if you are a high earning truck driver don't say you're a truck driver, say you own your own trucking business. It's how you carry yourself that matters here. Also be sure the pictures you send are not too douchey in their concept, like you standing in front of your expensive car or whatever (it might seem like an effective technique but its not). Semi-flattering but realistic pictures work best. I actually look shitty in pics no matter what I do, and most of the time I try to keep my face relatively hard to see in all the pics I send them. All they can really determine is that I'm fit and that I'm not trying to fool them with my pic, and that's enough to pique their interest and go to the M&G. Then at the M&G, the fact that I take a bad picture works to my advantage, because they usually comment I look better in person. Making sure they are pleasantly surprised at the M&G is what gets them to the FC so quickly. Never send photos that look vastly better than the real you, because it could result in disappointment at the M&G which is not what you want to occur.

I know there are some younger SDs out there who aren't quite there yet in terms of success or worth, and want to take advantage of their youth by dipping into the bowl at a young age, but I think this is a huge mistake. Spending money on SBs when you're in your 20's or 30's might get you laid in the short-term, but its a good way to develop a sex addiction that (unless you were born rich) will likely guarantee you never achieve the success and status that these girls are really looking for. There is plenty of pussy to be had in on-line dating and bars at those ages, and going after that gives you a chance to sharpen your game (which will pay off when you're older). Blowing all your disposable income on SBs when you're young prevents you from getting ahead, and you'll just regret it when you are of typical SD age.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3353356]That's why I prefer to exchange pics early in in the conversation. I'd hate to waste a lot of time only to find out her appearance or my I appearance isn't acceptable.

I've dropped more pots because appearance than I've been dropped because of appearance. My photos are genuine and not overly flattering so they get the real me. If they proceed, there is not surprises.[/QUOTE]One qualifier about that though. For the young ones, I'd say less than 22, especially in their teens, too much too soon is too much. I've made more mistakes w / this type with a lot of messaging, giving her my #, showing my pic, etc., than I have the other way around. I have been playing a 19 YO coed for now about 3 weeks, and I just gave her my pic b / c I'm about to let my profile go fallow and deactivate for about 10 days (actually, a different type of marketing ploy called a takeaway. Sometimes it works, sometimes they think you have just flaked. But that's another story). I've had quite positive interactions w / this girl whose bathwater I'd drink. I've done other things she's responded well to (and which got me her cell # for texting) and said stuff like 'you're so sweet'. I give her the pic, explaining why, and I get 'Very nice'. We've passed that hurdle, and now we'll see how it goes.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3353503]One qualifier about that though. For the young ones, I'd say less than 22, especially in their teens, too much too soon is too much. I've made more mistakes w / this type with a lot of messaging, giving her my #, showing my pic, etc., than I have the other way around. I have been playing a 19 YO coed for now about 3 weeks, and I just gave her my pic b / c I'm about to let my profile go fallow and deactivate for about 10 days (actually, a different type of marketing ploy called a takeaway. Sometimes it works, sometimes they think you have just flaked. But that's another story). I've had quite positive interactions w / this girl whose bathwater I'd drink. I've done other things she's responded well to (and which got me her cell # for texting) and said stuff like 'you're so sweet'. I give her the pic, explaining why, and I get 'Very nice'. We've passed that hurdle, and now we'll see how it goes.[/QUOTE]I have not shared real pictures in years. They don't care. The ones I send are a guy that has the graying hair and beard, and looks kind of like me, but again I have never had anyone mention it. I do the exchange early, but usually find their real pics on facebook, as oposed to old of fake ones they send. Why expose yourself to the risk of having your real picture with an email?

[QUOTE=Beachesnole02;3353715]I have not shared real pictures in years. They don't care. The ones I send are a guy that has the graying hair and beard, and looks kind of like me, but again I have never had anyone mention it. I do the exchange early, but usually find their real pics on facebook, as oposed to old of fake ones they send. Why expose yourself to the risk of having your real picture with an email?[/QUOTE]You can still do this carefully. I put it on SA when I am active. She could download it, I guess, and save it (just like I do theirs), but most probably wouldn't. I am super careful that this is a pic that is available nowhere else, especially on the web, so reverse image search doesn't get them to the real me. They are mostly not so careful, and I am amazed when I am able to find a girls' FB from their phone #, and find they use the same pics on SA that they use on FB. I am also super careful to strip out all the metadata from this photo, so again there are no breadcrumbs to find me. Again, they often don't do this. It is less likely to happen w / pics that come from SA rather than directly emailed. It could be that SA strips metadata before posting, a responsible thing for them to do. Finally, once she has seen my pic she has seen it, and I can rescind permission so she can't go back to it if she wanted to.

These are excellent points. Infact, I'm happy to note that some of your statements actually mirror my own analysis. I totally agree it is better to set lower expectations while still maintaining sufficient interest when sharing the initial pics. Thanks for taking the time to pen this.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3353446]There is a documentary out there (the name escapes me at the moment) where they study what attracts one sex to another. They basically prove that the female perception of what is physically attractive or not on a man is shaped more by his career position and financial status than his actual appearance. They proved this by randomly showing women photos of various men, some of them hunky male actor types, and some of them chubby below average guy-next-door types, but during the first test they did not put stats like job title under the photos. As expected, without listing career status, the Brad Pitt lookalikes would get high scores, while the average guys got lower scores. Then in the second test, they put nice job titles and salaries on the average guys, and job titles like "retail clerk" with income of $25 k on the hunky actor guys. You can probably guess what happened -- when a different group of random women were polled, suddenly the hunky guys were a 4 out of 10 and the successful guys were in the 8 to 10 range.

Point is, your status matters far more than your looks, so there is really no reason to be concerned about your appearance, and unless you're elephant man or something, as long as you're fit, most flaws in your appearance can be overcome by working your status to your advantage. If you're not in reasonable shape, that will definitely work against you, but not just at superficial level, it will affect her mental perception negatively. Being overweight for example gives off an impression of "lazy" or "unmotivated", or lack of willpower over controlling something as simple as your diet, or just not being smart enough to eat healthy, none of which are attractive to women. It can be overcome to a certain extent, but its the easiest aspect of your appearance to improve, assuming it needs improvement.

There will be times that a girl goes silent after seeing your pics, but chances are it's not because of what you think. A number of things may be going on. She might have had some unrealistic fantasy in her mind about what she was going to meet on the site, and because you don't look like Richard Gere in the early 90's', she needs time to reflect. It doesn't mean she's lost for good, she might contact you again or respond to your contact later on. A lot of these girls join the site "just to see what's out there" and are too skittish to follow through (younger ones especially). Also, she might think you look very good but you're just not her type. I experience this often when looking for girls. I can see a girl on there I think is gorgeous, but not really the specific type I'm looking for. Categorizing people based on their pics sometimes makes us prioritize them differently than if we met them and spent time with them in person, but unfortunately its a fact in all forms of on-line dating. There have been times I unintentionally stopped responding to a girl that I did think was hot and I was interested in after she sent additional pics, and no doubt some of them thought there was something wrong with the photos they sent. In reality, I just forgot to respond because I was busy / had a lot going on, or my schedule changed such that I wasn't planning to be in their city, etc.

There can be many reasons this happens. The important thing is to never take it personally and assume your appearance is the issue, because that's only allowing the process to erode your confidence, and confidence is EVERYTHING in all types of dating, sugar or civy.

If girls are going dark very often right after you send her your pics, try lowering your standards a bit to see what happens (go for the 5-6's instead of the 8-9's), and work your way up to the 8-9's when your confidence has been repaired by the 5-6 range girls.

There is a great deal more to what makes a girl's pussy wet than just the way you look. Looks never hurt, all things equal, but its not the component that matters most.

The first thing I would recommend to SDs is to take a look at how you're presenting your career success. Don't lie about career status or net worth, but for example if you are a high earning truck driver don't say you're a truck driver, say you own your own trucking business. It's how you carry yourself that matters here. Also be sure the pictures you send are not too douchey in their concept, like you standing in front of your expensive car or whatever (it might seem like an effective technique but its not). Semi-flattering but realistic pictures work best. I actually look shitty in pics no matter what I do, and most of the time I try to keep my face relatively hard to see in all the pics I send them. All they can really determine is that I'm fit and that I'm not trying to fool them with my pic, and that's enough to pique their interest and go to the M&G. Then at the M&G, the fact that I take a bad picture works to my advantage, because they usually comment I look better in person. Making sure they are pleasantly surprised at the M&G is what gets them to the FC so quickly. Never send photos that look vastly better than the real you, because it could result in disappointment at the M&G which is not what you want to occur.

I know there are some younger SDs out there who aren't quite there yet in terms of success or worth, and want to take advantage of their youth by dipping into the bowl at a young age, but I think this is a huge mistake. Spending money on SBs when you're in your 20's or 30's might get you laid in the short-term, but its a good way to develop a sex addiction that (unless you were born rich) will likely guarantee you never achieve the success and status that these girls are really looking for. There is plenty of pussy to be had in on-line dating and bars at those ages, and going after that gives you a chance to sharpen your game (which will pay off when you're older). Blowing all your disposable income on SBs when you're young prevents you from getting ahead, and you'll just regret it when you are of typical SD age.[/QUOTE]

I have been talking to several chicks on SA and they show interest today, we exchange number and tomorrow they just stop replying. I was wondering if they have a private board where they blacklist SDs and weather I have been blacklisted or something. I am kinda new to this game, does this happen quite often to you guys?

I met this two chicks one 18 and other 21, they both agreed to go to the room after M&G and we had pretty great time in the FC. And they both were very willing to meet again. First one after a week of first meet said she didn't want to continue, which was fine. The other one I had a meet set up and we were chatting normally until the day before and then she suddenly went silent the day of the meet. Her phone was unreachable and she didn't even read my SA msg (She didn't block me either).

[QUOTE=Lebruno;3353285]Well, I will have to agree with what you have said here. I have been chatting with a 19 yo for little over 2 weeks now. The SA site has my suit pic but face blurred. She clearly knew she is chatting w a potential SD who is no George Clooney look alike. And, for that matter she is not a hot chick by any generous rating scale. She is chubby looking and at best a high 6. Its her first time and she was not getting much attention perhaps due to her average looks. Anyways, I was willing to give her a try and we covered a lot of ground over texting including how ready she is to spend some intimate time with a mature gentleman. To everything she said yes except that she wanted to have sex maybe after couple of meetings. Which was OK with me. Anyways just before we were ready to meet she asks for a clear face pic. And, I tell her I'll sure send one to you but don't ghost on me. She lols and says she is well aware and mature than most girls to act silly like that. Then I send her a very normal pic and guess what she blocks my number within minutes. No further response to any of my messages. She even deleted her profile on SA. LOL. I felt like an Idiot having spent so much time on her for nothing![/QUOTE]Hopefully, your pic does not end on [URL]predator.com[/URL]. Happened to me the when I sent an SA girl my pic. Yes, she went dark. Your girl spent a bunch of time texting with you, so probably not the type fishing for pics to put on predator.