"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=FredMoore;3344567]So what is happening to the Pot SBs, they are being scammed by Pump and dumpers. These are the "road test" guys who want to sample the goods, or worse, just want a cheap source of a higher quality escort. SA is becoming the new BP and CL. Girls are becoming increasingly wise to this technique. Many of us wouldn't intentionally scam these girls, but it happens with great frequency. Unless they are escorts, they don't want a one time lay. Believe it or not, our dicks aren't made out of gold and the girls are here for the financial help ,not a porn star banger.[/QUOTE]The issue with some of the opinions posted here is that we tend to forget that our opinions are based only on our own experiences, and that our perspective is limited by how vast (or narrow) the expanse of those experiences happen to be. When opinions get posted as fact (which can happen unintentionally -- I'm guilty of this too) is when the value of these discussions becomes diminished.

For example, my experiences couldn't be more different than what you've described above. I usually try to get in the girls head a little bit about what she is really looking for. Is she only in it for money? Is she in it for love (surprisingly common)? Or something else? Most of the girls I hook up with either have something else going on in their lives (boyfriend, fiance, etc) but they want some excitement. I actually like to target this type of SB because I feel if she has something to lose, we are on more equal ground. Sometimes I don't even know whether to believe some of these girls when they tell me they cant get their boyfriend to fuck them because they think he's addicted to porn and jerks off all day, to me it's hard to imagine someone denying the opportunity to fuck them several times per day (I know I would), but apparently porn addiction is a growing problem for some of these girls. I've met some of the hottest strippers you can imagine tell me the same thing, their ex was a dud in bed because of porn addiction.

Then there is another category of girls that does seek some level of financial help. What I hear often is something along the lines of "I've always been attracted to older guys. Why would I want to date some guy my age that lives with his parents and spends their money? I can't respect that, I want a man not a boy". The exact wording varies from girl to girl, but it is a repeating theme that I hear often.

And, I try to avoid the ones that are looking for something beyond the adventurous aspect (I. E. That want emotional attachment). I make it clear I want something NSA and that I'm not emotionally available, so if they start acting lovey-dovey or talking about non-gifted dates, I usually start slowly backing off of communications with her. Why? Because I explained what I'm about in the very beginning and before we even met, and if they put me in a situation to have to explain it yet again, I see it as unfair. The way I look at it, my only obligation is to not mislead any of them.

Nobody gets hurt the way I do it. There is no expectation of any guaranteed or ongoing obligation from her or from me. The world of dating, sugar or otherwise, can be unpredictable. For every girl that claims "she got taken advantage of", there are 5 SDs that got flaked on, scammed, or threatened.

In all but the rarest of cases, when a female tells you tales of how she has been used, there is one of two things going on: Either she is trying to appeal to your inner chivalrous hero in order to get sympathy (and thus better treatment), or she is just spouting the old "all guys are jerks" BS in order to make an excuse not to treat you properly. This is just Female Mind 101 stuff. I can't tell you how many sob stories I've heard, only to find out through social media that it's absolutely nothing like they told me. For the most part, despite what they say, these girls are no strangers to one-night-stands, and as long as they are the ones pumping and dumping, all is fair in love and war, she can date whoever she wants (but if they guy rejects her instead of vice versa, or meets someone he likes better, he is evil).

In my case all of my girls know I'm a traveling and somewhat fleeting date, and they may see me multiple times or they may not. All of them are fine with the situation, even if they tell a different story so they can have their way with a different SD.

Are there some guys that are scammers out there? Sure, just as there are SBs that are. But I think these are the exception and not the rule, and bottom line is that casual sex is an adult game and only adults should play it. It doesn't always turn out the way exactly as we'd like, but very little does in life.

Just saw a new profile. In the "looking for" she says that she expects a "Substantial" allowance I. E. 10 grad a month. I had a good laugh. I wish I could be their to see the look on their faces when the reality hits. LOL.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3345082]The issue with some of the opinions posted here is that we tend to forget that our opinions are based only on our own experiences, and that our perspective is limited by how vast (or narrow) the expanse of those experiences happen to be. When opinions get posted as fact (which can happen unintentionally -- I'm guilty of this too) is when the value of these discussions becomes diminished.

For example, my experiences couldn't be more different than what you've described above. I usually try to get in the girls head a little bit about what she is really looking for. Is she only in it for money? Is she in it for love (surprisingly common)? Or something else? Most of the girls I hook up with either have something else going on in their lives (boyfriend, fiance, etc) but they want some excitement. I actually like to target this type of SB because I feel if she has something to lose, we are on more equal ground. Sometimes I don't even know whether to believe some of these girls when they tell me they cant get their boyfriend to fuck them because they think he's addicted to porn and jerks off all day, to me it's hard to imagine someone denying the opportunity to fuck them several times per day (I know I would), but apparently porn addiction is a growing problem for some of these girls. I've met some of the hottest strippers you can imagine tell me the same thing, their ex was a dud in bed because of porn addiction.

Then there is another category of girls that does seek some level of financial help. What I hear often is something along the lines of "I've always been attracted to older guys. Why would I want to date some guy my age that lives with his parents and spends their money? I can't respect that, I want a man not a boy". The exact wording varies from girl to girl, but it is a repeating theme that I hear often.

And, I try to avoid the ones that are looking for something beyond the adventurous aspect (I. E. That want emotional attachment). I make it clear I want something NSA and that I'm not emotionally available, so if they start acting lovey-dovey or talking about non-gifted dates, I usually start slowly backing off of communications with her. Why? Because I explained what I'm about in the very beginning and before we even met, and if they put me in a situation to have to explain it yet again, I see it as unfair. The way I look at it, my only obligation is to not mislead any of them.

Nobody gets hurt the way I do it. There is no expectation of any guaranteed or ongoing obligation from her or from me. The world of dating, sugar or otherwise, can be unpredictable. For every girl that claims "she got taken advantage of", there are 5 SDs that got flaked on, scammed, or threatened.

In all but the rarest of cases, when a female tells you tales of how she has been used, there is one of two things going on: Either she is trying to appeal to your inner chivalrous hero in order to get sympathy (and thus better treatment), or she is just spouting the old "all guys are jerks" BS in order to make an excuse not to treat you properly. This is just Female Mind 101 stuff. I can't tell you how many sob stories I've heard, only to find out through social media that it's absolutely nothing like they told me. For the most part, despite what they say, these girls are no strangers to one-night-stands, and as long as they are the ones pumping and dumping, all is fair in love and war, she can date whoever she wants (but if they guy rejects her instead of vice versa, or meets someone he likes better, he is evil).

In my case all of my girls know I'm a traveling and somewhat fleeting date, and they may see me multiple times or they may not. All of them are fine with the situation, even if they tell a different story so they can have their way with a different SD.

Are there some guys that are scammers out there? Sure, just as there are SBs that are. But I think these are the exception and not the rule, and bottom line is that casual sex is an adult game and only adults should play it. It doesn't always turn out the way exactly as we'd like, but very little does in life.[/QUOTE]Well said JL as your wisdom continues to be the inspiration for many of us to keep at it in the bowl. I have come across most of the types you have described. The biggest change I have noted in the 2+ years I have been playing in the bowl is how many now are just ignoring may initial message. Being that I am over 55 is one part and I assume having high message volume on their end is another. Also many are just tired of dealing with guys expecting BP type girls in the bowl. I'd like to think I've polished my profile and my contact messages to bring in the type of SB I am looking for. But so far I seem to be getting UTR types this year rather a SB who is happy with 3 or 4 dates a month to help her along in life. Maybe the right one is just a click away this month on SA.

[QUOTE=JustLonely;3345726]Well said JL as your wisdom continues to be the inspiration for many of us to keep at it in the bowl. I have come across most of the types you have described. The biggest change I have noted in the 2+ years I have been playing in the bowl is how many now are just ignoring may initial message. Being that I am over 55 is one part and I assume having high message volume on their end is another. Also many are just tired of dealing with guys expecting BP type girls in the bowl. I'd like to think I've polished my profile and my contact messages to bring in the type of SB I am looking for. But so far I seem to be getting UTR types this year rather a SB who is happy with 3 or 4 dates a month to help her along in life. Maybe the right one is just a click away this month on SA.[/QUOTE]I also confess to 56 (optimistic, but can pass), and it's true many are resistant to my first contact. I list married on my profile as well, and I know that there are quite a few girls (most commonly, younger asians) who don't want to date married men, only some of them stating it in the profile. I try to put in an initial sentence that catches the eye b / c it can be seen in the message list without opening it. It's been frustrating to me when a girl not only doesn't respond to a message, but I can see she hasn't read it. She has decided to do that based on what she can see in her inbox, so really try to get a hook in there. I use some general ones for my 3 message types, but you might also try putting something in specific to her profile.

My first message is a pretty general, nice guy one, with additions customized to her profile. If she reads it and does not reply, I come back in a few days with a couple of approaches. Very young ones get something about you may not have a lot of experience, I'm a great mentor, guys your age suck, etc. The most successful thing I've used that gets women to seriously look at my profile is asking them about being kinky / submissive. I think that has to be an assumption about any woman on SA. My nice guy message goes nowhere. My message about being naughty gets a read, perhaps a request for my private photo (full face). Sometimes it stops there. I have had a few come back w / 'no, I'm not submissive', and I explain the basis of my asking, then continue the conversation. At least I've gotten a rise out of them.

I've got one other I use for the type of college girls whose bathwater you'd drink, basically promising in a romantic way a certain kind of relationship. I am conversing w / a 19 YO incredibly beautiful and hot girl right now who I got in this way. The lesson I've learned by mistakes made is that I have to slow play these. She's getting comfortable w / the bowl and me, and everything needs to be her idea. It could take a month or two to land this fish. It will be worth it if it happens. I have a M&G w / a 22 YO tomorrow, also a college girl, and I played it the same way over a few weeks. In an early message, though, she asked me how initial meetings worked, and I explained very generally what the practices were. Clearly, she was interested in the bowl, and she's gotten comfortable enough w/ me to try it. Sexy, a dancer (not a stripper), tall, slender, flat.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3345743]I also confess to 56 (optimistic, but can pass), and it's true many are resistant to my first contact. I list married on my profile as well, and I know that there are quite a few girls (most commonly, younger asians) who don't want to date married men, only some of them stating it in the profile. I try to put in an initial sentence that catches the eye b / c it can be seen in the message list without opening it. It's been frustrating to me when a girl not only doesn't respond to a message, but I can see she hasn't read it. She has decided to do that based on what she can see in her inbox, so really try to get a hook in there. I use some general ones for my 3 message types, but you might also try putting something in specific to her profile.

My first message is a pretty general, nice guy one, with additions customized to her profile. If she reads it and does not reply, I come back in a few days with a couple of approaches. Very young ones get something about you may not have a lot of experience, I'm a great mentor, guys your age suck, etc. The most successful thing I've used that gets women to seriously look at my profile is asking them about being kinky / submissive. I think that has to be an assumption about any woman on SA. My nice guy message goes nowhere. My message about being naughty gets a read, perhaps a request for my private photo (full face). Sometimes it stops there. I have had a few come back w / 'no, I'm not submissive', and I explain the basis of my asking, then continue the conversation. At least I've gotten a rise out of them.

I've got one other I use for the type of college girls whose bathwater you'd drink, basically promising in a romantic way a certain kind of relationship. I am conversing w / a 19 YO incredibly beautiful and hot girl right now who I got in this way. The lesson I've learned by mistakes made is that I have to slow play these. She's getting comfortable w / the bowl and me, and everything needs to be her idea. It could take a month or two to land this fish. It will be worth it if it happens. I have a M&G w / a 22 YO tomorrow, also a college girl, and I played it the same way over a few weeks. In an early message, though, she asked me how initial meetings worked, and I explained very generally what the practices were. Clearly, she was interested in the bowl, and she's gotten comfortable enough w/ me to try it. Sexy, a dancer (not a stripper), tall, slender, flat.[/QUOTE]Good advice! Love this quote, "college girls whose bathwater you'd drink". My first SB was a 20 yo VCU student that had me feeling that way. Been looking for that same feeling ever since as we connected better than any of the dozens I've meet in person ever since.

[QUOTE=JustLonely;3345726]Well said JL as your wisdom continues to be the inspiration for many of us to keep at it in the bowl. I have come across most of the types you have described. The biggest change I have noted in the 2+ years I have been playing in the bowl is how many now are just ignoring may initial message. Being that I am over 55 is one part and I assume having high message volume on their end is another. Also many are just tired of dealing with guys expecting BP type girls in the bowl. I'd like to think I've polished my profile and my contact messages to bring in the type of SB I am looking for. But so far I seem to be getting UTR types this year rather a SB who is happy with 3 or 4 dates a month to help her along in life. Maybe the right one is just a click away this month on SA.[/QUOTE]The reasons you cited could definitely be a factor, but I personally witnessed a huge shift in on line dating communications reliability right around the time smart phones became mainstream and the dating sites made some of the functionality mobile-accessible (not just sugar dating but the same was true with other dating sites). Then, when SA came out with their mobile app, I noticed an increasing level of flakiness with initial contacts. I attribute this to a number of factors:

Smart phones, tablets, apps and the related constant influx of distractions, instant messages et al, has all but obliterated the attention span of the typical Gen Z girl, and to some extent same is true with millennials. They read a message, intend to respond, then get distracted with something else and forget to follow up. Something is always tugging at their attention. Too many messages flying in too many directions on too many apps as opposed to all dating interest hitting a single inbox. This results in failure to respond (I. E. Reading one message and proceeding to the next message before replying, repeat 10-12 times. Oops forgot to get back to writing a response to message #1).

Add to that, the tiny screens of phones makes it difficult to communicate effectively. In the old days of email, she might have had a message she marked for follow up or even made a mental note to come back to half way up the screen on a laptop monitor, and even if she proceeded reading farther down the list, she still had a visual to remind her to to back to messages higher up. Only so much information can be displayed on a phone at once, so she has to do a lot of swiping back and forth to try to juggle the same amount of information that was easier on her computer. Plus, a lot of these girls are just not masterfully organized people, which makes the problem worse.

Then, the convenience of mobile (easy access from anywhere) becomes it's biggest drawback. Because the message hits her instantly, she is likely to read it right then (whether she's in a car or doing something else that needs her full attention, or maybe she's in a conversation with someone, etc). She's likely to glance at the message, then return to her main task, then forget to come back to the message later.

So, while we can't turn back the clock on this "technological progress" that has eroded the cognitive abilities of the younger generation, we can keep in mind one of the main sources of the problem. Important thing is don't take it personally if she doesn't respond, because she probably forgot. Try again at a later date and you might be surprised at how many times they say "Oh I'm so sorry I saw your message and forgot to respond".

[QUOTE=Grizzly383;3345600]Just saw a new profile. In the "looking for" she says that she expects a "Substantial" allowance I. E. 10 grad a month. I had a good laugh. I wish I could be their to see the look on their faces when the reality hits. LOL.[/QUOTE]Ignore it. Most have no idea when they select that. Worst case they've been influenced by the SA marketing blog. In which case, you dump and move forward.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3345743]I also confess to 56 (optimistic, but can pass), and it's true many are resistant to my first contact. I list married on my profile as well, and I know that there are quite a few girls (most commonly, younger asians) who don't want to date married men, only some of them stating it in the profile. I try to put in an initial sentence that catches the eye b / c it can be seen in the message list without opening it. It's been frustrating to me when a girl not only doesn't respond to a message, but I can see she hasn't read it. She has decided to do that based on what she can see in her inbox, so really try to get a hook in there. I use some general ones for my 3 message types, but you might also try putting something in specific to her profile.

My first message is a pretty general, nice guy one, with additions customized to her profile. If she reads it and does not reply, I come back in a few days with a couple of approaches. Very young ones get something about you may not have a lot of experience, I'm a great mentor, guys your age suck, etc. The most successful thing I've used that gets women to seriously look at my profile is asking them about being kinky / submissive. I think that has to be an assumption about any woman on SA. My nice guy message goes nowhere. My message about being naughty gets a read, perhaps a request for my private photo (full face). Sometimes it stops there. I have had a few come back w / 'no, I'm not submissive', and I explain the basis of my asking, then continue the conversation. At least I've gotten a rise out of them.

I've got one other I use for the type of college girls whose bathwater you'd drink, basically promising in a romantic way a certain kind of relationship. I am conversing w / a 19 YO incredibly beautiful and hot girl right now who I got in this way. The lesson I've learned by mistakes made is that I have to slow play these. She's getting comfortable w / the bowl and me, and everything needs to be her idea. It could take a month or two to land this fish. It will be worth it if it happens. I have a M&G w / a 22 YO tomorrow, also a college girl, and I played it the same way over a few weeks. In an early message, though, she asked me how initial meetings worked, and I explained very generally what the practices were. Clearly, she was interested in the bowl, and she's gotten comfortable enough w/ me to try it. Sexy, a dancer (not a stripper), tall, slender, flat.[/QUOTE]Your first message should set you apart from the rest. I ran across a profile that said she could curse like a sailor. My first message was - "prove it to me". It showed that I read her profile, and I wasn't going OMG you're so sexy.

Be different. Be unique, and you'll score.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3345082]The issue with some of the opinions posted here is that we tend to forget that our opinions are based only on our own experiences, and that our perspective is limited by how vast (or narrow) the expanse of those experiences happen to be. When opinions get posted as fact (which can happen unintentionally -- I'm guilty of this too) is when the value of these discussions becomes diminished.

.[/QUOTE]So following JZL's contributions through the yrs it seems that he has a high degree of Game, and plays this SB game a lot differently than most of us do. If you have game and can freestyle to meet nontraditional SBs, then good for you. It is more of an IRL situation. But the average guy-myself included, has neither the time, freedom, or skills to keep the larder full. So most of us have to shop at the Sugar store. I've seen a few SBs in my time, and the biggest c / o I hear is the high degree of loser guys trying to score free ass -skipping out after scoring, etc. I know a lot (most?) of the guys who post here care about the girls that we are looking to see, and don't look at them as a tool to be used and discarded.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;3347212]So following JZL's contributions through the yrs it seems that he has a high degree of Game, and plays this SB game a lot differently than most of us do. If you have game and can freestyle to meet nontraditional SBs, then good for you. It is more of an IRL situation. But the average guy-myself included, has neither the time, freedom, or skills to keep the larder full. So most of us have to shop at the Sugar store. I've seen a few SBs in my time, and the biggest c / o I hear is the high degree of loser guys trying to score free ass -skipping out after scoring, etc. I know a lot (most?) of the guys who post here care about the girls that we are looking to see, and don't look at them as a tool to be used and discarded.[/QUOTE]Actually I think running a bit of game works best against "real" SBs, and is far less effective on UTRs, pros and the like. Game doesn't really buy a lot with the pros or gold diggers, because their goals are predetermined before they ever enter the bowl -- a customer is a customer for them, they aren't looking for any aspect of the dating experience, nor do they care about sexual enjoyment as much as they care about money.

Most of the stuff I talk about here is not PUA strategy (or anything approaching it really). Most of what I write about involves simple observations about the female mind -- yes, civy dating experience helps with this, but I'm not sure that counts as running game. Also, if you watch the posts you'll find I'm not alone in my observations. Lots of guys (who, like me sugar date only occasionally) report much the same experiences that I do in this thread.

I think the variation in experience in perspectives is that just like the girls I mentioned, all of our goals are predetermined before we enter the bowl as well. Some guys go in knowing they want to negotiate quick deal for a cheap and kinky fuck for an hour romp in a hotel, and that's the kind of girls they meet. Some guys go in hoping to meet something that can turn into an actual relationship / GF situation, and that's the kind of girls they meet. Some guys (myself included) go into the bowl with certain parameters or rules (like not discussing money ahead of time), so of course the girls I meet are limited to the type of girl that responds well to that method.

It's hard for me to even remember that escort and UTR types even exist on SA, because I filter them out so quickly (usually by a cursory glance of their profile). Then, if they insist on talking money, they are culled from the list of candidates, focusing my search further. There are some other reasons they may not make the final cut (for example if I see something on their FB that turns me off). So at the end of the process I'm left with a number of girls in each city that all meet my criteria. That doesn't mean the other types of girls don't exist, I just don't mentally acknowledge them, and usually forget they are even there.

The only reason any of this matters is that when I see the various sugar threads that have cropped up here on USASG in the last year, it seems that lots of guys treat the lifestyle as an extension of BP. To each his own, I'm not going to tell other people how to operate but I am going to acknowledge the issue that this is the single largest threat to the long-term viability of SA and similar SD websites. If media events continue to associate these sites and their users to prostitution, trafficking, or other illegal activity, major banks will eventually refuse to process payment transaction and that's that -- the scene will vaporize overnight.

I'd rather not see that happen, which is why I mention it here. But, if doomsday does come, it's only an inconvenience and not a complete obstacle. Sugar babies were available on dating websites before the SD sites came along, and even before the Internet they were available in bars. I'll find them one way or another. Honestly sometimes I prefer randomly hunting in strip clubs anyway.

Collectively however, I do believe it is worthwhile to make our best effort to preserve the lifestyle. If nothing is done, we will see more negative media attention in the future. More attention that is not in the best interest of the lifestyle / hobby.

In addition to preservation of the lifestyle, there is the other issue of increasing availability of identification over the Internet. TOR helps, VPNs help, but they are not fool proof, and operational security experts will tell you even the best of the best at hiding their identity make a mistake sooner or later that exposes themselves, and they almost never realize when it happens. To explain that in it's simplest forms, one form of risk takes only a very minor network hiccup combined with tunneling protocol kill-switch timing failure, and suddenly your IP address is all over whatever you're doing. So, those who continue to engage in illegal activity on-line should pretty much prepare for dooms day, the day when they are held accountable for their actions, under their real names, in front of their spouses and employers, and plan domestic and career responses accordingly. The most recent example is PornHub being ordered to expose folks who uploaded copyrighted content. This trend will only grow. The Interweb Jury declared illegal activity happened and the perps must be outed, then made it so.

Married guys making offers for sex over the Internet in the US should prepare for the day they get served an alimony shit sandwich if they continue this bad habit, because the methods used to reveal identity are growing more sophisticated by the day. Wives of SDs are going to love it. Refraining from illegal activity doesn't guarantee they'll never get caught by the wife, but it does make it less likely they would ever be publicly outed in the first place. To me, that reason alone is reason enough to stay on the path of not offering money for sex on line. The single guys without an SO? The retired guys? They are at much lower risk.

The solution to all of this is just to not break the law in the first place. In the bowl, there is as much (if not more) fun to be had without even going there, anyway.

I think it can still be done, even when shopping at the sugar store (to borrow your phrase). If nothing else, just making sure "deals" are never discussed on line, and talking about that only after an in-person meet, would go a very long way. And, if you can set it up so that she can honestly never answer "yes" if LEO asks her if there was ever a deal to exchange sex for money, even better. I believe this should be doable, even with UTR types.

I ran another ad for talent of CL at the beginning of the year and came up with another gem that has been a regular. Mid 30's, Married, mom, FITNESS INSTRUCTOR, yeah. She can squeeze your nuts off without using her hands if you know what I mean. She was definitely a newby, had to really calm her down to get the panties on the floor. After that she did not want anything from me except to pay for the room. She got hung up in traffic coming to meet me Monday and sent me this as tease.

I won't write a book on it, but it is about game. And game is about confidence and listening. Most of these women have never had a man listen to them. I just sent her a sexy dress, without needing to aski her size. I bet that is going to get me at least 2 raw shots on goal next week since she made the comment that her man could never remember her size (she's a 2 BOZO its not hard to figure out).

[QUOTE=Beachesnole02;3348989]
I won't write a book on it, but it is about game.[/QUOTE]Never say never. Once you achieve critical mass of emails and pms asking you to do exactly that, you might start wondering what it would be like to line up publishers and make a few hundred thousand, or even millions, for your efforts like Neil Strauss did; instead of giving it away for free.

As a man w / a SO, I keep my SA profile hidden from searches. The only way SBs know of me is when I contact them. I decided to do an experiment today of opening it up. I'd say I got a dozen contacts from people I'd never seen before, including from long distances (though the profile says 'only local'). Most were crap and instantly blocked. I got favorited by a couple of young ones, one local, one far away, I can't understand why. Some advise you will never date someone who only favorites you. One middle-age fairly hot woman I'm continuing to message with, and then came a nice surprise. I joined about 10 months ago, around the same time as a coed I really liked the looks of. She ignored my original message and then a follow-up 6 mos ago, but I saw she was viewing my profile today, so I shot her a message. A convo ensued and we are supposed to meet.

I really recommend favoriting those you are interested in and messaging with. You can keep track of when they were on, if they are ignoring messages you sent, etc.

Another strategy that seems to work for me is sending them a message while they are on the site. Perhaps it is more compelling to read a message that has just come in, rather than one that has been sitting in her inbox. That is another reason to favorite those you are interested in - you can see who is online and send messages to those.

It can be very hard to tell from a profile where a POT is coming from. I am interested in one who has a fake photo, specifically says she wants much older and expects to 'stay in' w / you. I had two bowl buddies vet the profile, and they both concluded she was UTR. I've messaged w / her and she's texted me real pix. Absolutely stunning 23 YO, HOT body, and of slavic heritage if you know what I mean. What BikeRider says are among the most manipulative of women in the world. Anyway, the messaging was very nice and sweet, and she seems to be getting quite excited to meet me today. I get an inkling and ask her if I am the first man to meet her from SA and she says yes. Of course this could be a put on ('oh, I'm a virgin'). We agree to text to confirm before the meet. I pop on my phone this morning and there's her text that she has to go to the doctor for an emergency. Yeah, right. At least she noticed me before she flaked, so I didn't go to the spot. It is out of my way as I am trying to stay UTR. Anyway, I have to reassess this girl based on new info. I mean, what UTR flakes on a meeting? It's the young ones who are unsure about the bowl who do that. I sincerely think she's an amateur, and if she has anything like reasonable sugar, this could be a gold mine.

I have another regular SB who's Russian, and though I pretty much know she fucks other guys, she's never given me a vibe of threatening me IRL. And unless she's about to win an Oscar, she just loves our sex. I also have the goods on her (home address, real estate license, hubby). FFA away.

After a few days into this, I have a few POTs lined up. It will all boil down to them being legit, flakes, or UTRs this weekend. I can embarrassingly say, my first 48 hrs into this, I received a 24 hr ban (I laugh now, and some are saying you idiot) but I learned quickly not to talk numbers and wording is very important, I don't think I did anything too egregious. I just slipped up in being too upfront to the wrong person.

I was also trying to read the Richmond Bible of SD / SB simultaneously. Big mistake. As my 24 hour detention allowed me to read and thus up my IQ. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the forefathers have laid out a helluva blueprint.

Now, I have a shitty profile picture (no face). This really boils down to what I do for a living, yea. It would be retarded if I did. But this leads to my first big question is how do you guys navigate around this obstacle and what have you all done when time comes to spread your photo (the safest way)? Also curious how guys with SO's take this risk. I personally navigated around this in two ways thus far; (1) I got a Snapchat app and sent a photo timed for 1 second and it disappears (2) I told a future date, when we meet for coffee, I'll wear this shirt, If I'm your type come say hi. If I'm not your type, she can easily avoid this by disappearing as soon as she notices me.

In my short time, I've noticed Profiles are money. We all like visuals and the more you can give a girl, the more likely she's to respond. The headings and words no matter how clever I think can be irrelevant if you keep it simple and elaborate on who you are and what you're about in the opening messages. But good pictures and simple word play are good enough bait to catch a sexy fish.

The past highlights have helped me with coming up with a generic openers I can use for all. If I'm bored I may send my opening message blended with some of the things they say they're looking for. Regardless, I've been approaching this with a strong opening statement and then trying to play very much going with her flow in setting a date.

Now here's what I'm working with:

Girl #1: claims she just got started with this, account says such but she's coming off as super clingy already. American Immigrant, sexy accent, college student. I'm skeptical about her as. I'll be honest guys, I'm no dud and I think she can be a stage 4 clinger. Either way, we are meeting for coffee soon and more to report.

Girl #2: My little ratchet #1. Black girl who when I said coffee, said she doesn't drink but had some nice lunch places in mind. Great little body but she seems like she's happy with trying to eat / drink good off of guys. I think I'm going to drop her already.

Girl #3: Young with 2 kids in college. Was not smart enough to use a burner or app so a facebook search revealed it all. She potentially has some little thug bf. (I'm curious to hear how you all think I should move on this one) They could be over, he could be in jail but FB has them in a relationship. I think he could be using her as bait to jump / rob SDs. I'm 90% certain I'm bagging out of this one. I will meet her for coffee as I'm 6'4 240, hence the name "The Barbarian" but I will not be doing late night appt visits.

Girl #4: This one breaks my heart because she seems so genuine but I googled her number and I am certain she's UTR. Her number came up as an escort but not to many hits on google. We supposedly have a date tomorrow, at her place where she says she'll cook dinner. Asked me to only bring wine and we'll go from there. Really interested on your takes about this one.

What I've noticed immediately is this is a different game / hobby. It's fun and takes time finessing these women and they really do want to be sold a dream even though the name is "SA", it's really funny.

I need help in getting over the picture. I will not be as successful until I do.

I do have several, solid opening lines.

Coffee is my ideal of a perfect first M&G, any other in expenses ideas under $. 3. I'm not cheap but I am playing the quantity game until I've found my niche in this.

However, that's the lowdown. I'm working on a few more ladies, but none as developed as these. Curious to hear thoughts and always open to PM.

Thanks.