"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3342515]Pretty good thoughts in an ideal world but impossible to police. You can report them but 30 minutes later they have a new profile up. In the ideal world the girls would report the mongers who first correspondence is "How much or first pic is their dick. Bad behavior is rampant on both sides. I've read several times where mongers have been suspended from the account for a day but never had their profile cancelled. It won't happen often because the paying members is what fuels the site. The premise of the site is built on nsa, mutual beneficial arrangements and no drama. Technically by law its against the law. The sex is a given to the arrangement, same as BP, CL or any other sex site. One could go to POF, [URL]MATCH.COM[/URL] or any dating site and apply the techniques there but we don't. Why we don't for most part is most of those women would be pissed to be offered money for sex. Also the age group most hunt in is virtually non existent on those sites. The ratio of young women looking for an older man is in the women s favor there. On Sa its in the guys favor, usually 5 to 1 or higher. Why is it higher there, because of the mutual beneficial arrangements. Financial aid for the implied sex. All you see on the sd / sb threads is the rant about time wasters, gps, online arrangements or arm candy. The guys that actually support any on the list is considered a threat to the bowl for giving these girls help without the sex and putting these ideas in their head. The implied sex is why we're in the bowl. I'm sure you wouldn't be in the bowl without the sex. I know I wouldn't. Trying to police the girls to SAis basically a waste of time other than to out them on the threads the way most sd / sb threads do now. Jmho.[/QUOTE]Two points I want to make here. First to FarFar Away. Speaking for the NC sugar bowls, you are exactly correct in that the respective forums (and bowl markets) are drawing the BP escort guys who have not quite gotten it yet. Nothing wrong with the BP escort scene bc I cut my teeth on the pros for 18 months, writing up 30 plus reviews on the oThER site before stumbling (thank god) onto the bowl scene. I had to up my game of course and adjust my approach, tbh took a few months but now with the help of the Richmond brothers 20 months later I have this down to an art and a science. Since BP has basically gone away it is no surprise that just as SA is drawing the UTR pros it is now also drawing the escort mongers. Unfortunately some of the escort mongers won't make a smooth transition, at least not without our help. What I have done is split my posting time between Richmond and Raleigh with the intention of educating / coaching those NC brothers that need some extra perspective. One very critical technique that JLZ kept preaching and now I am a major believer. Never commit to $ until AFTER the FC romp. I personally use high quality art type cards from a boutique card shop and sign my name and the date, then put a combination of gift cards and cash, then slip it into her purse. If the SB is a repeat quality I put in $$, if not then $. 50, but invariably if they get past my M & G they will be worth $$. I have never had a SB complain but I have had a few on subsequent FC romps try to negotiate a higher gift. My response in my head is "Goodbye" and "Next". The second point I want to make is to John HC and the brothers in general. You may be right about the futility of doing the SA report, so I have a couple of thoughts. One is to coach the brothers in that situation to simply respond back to the POT that she is putting our "community" at risk by blatantly quoting $ numbers in an SA inbox. Maybe do that in a private text but def don't do that in front of the SA eyes. Also, we have to allow that it may be the POTS way of blowing the guy off (unattractive pic, corny messages, etc) but she needs to know its a bad move. Just my three cents.

Hey guys! I'm going to be up in Richmond this week and I was wondering if anyone has any info they could share about Hard2 hndlMilf? I'm thinking about getting together with her but I can't find anything about her. Any help would be appreciated. I'm happy to offer any advice I can if any of you are ever down in Raleigh.

[QUOTE=Falar;3342755]I've notice that a lot of girls are on the site for one day or up to a week. And it's seems like they disappear and never return to the site. I recently returned to the website and I notice it. These are quality profiles the ones I really like. Based on the information provided in the description. They same to be genuine. Any theories on why this happens or have any of you guys talked to an sb about this before?[/QUOTE]I'd bet this is peculiar to the particular area you've been searching in. I haven't noticed that in my area. I haven't heard others comment on that. Are you in Richmond? This seems like a dumb question, but this thread has become the de facto national thread for SDs, and people from all over the US post here (I'm from the west coast).

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3343091]I'd bet this is peculiar to the particular area you've been searching in. I haven't noticed that in my area. I haven't heard others comment on that. Are you in Richmond? This seems like a dumb question, but this thread has become the de facto national thread for SDs, and people from all over the US post here (I'm from the west coast).[/QUOTE]I'm on the east coast, Florida to be exact. I've been looking at the sign up date and last login date. I search the new profile first and work by way back to the older profiles.

[QUOTE=Falar;3343109]I'm on the east coast, Florida to be exact. I've been looking at the sign up date and last login date. I search the new profile first and work by way back to the older profiles.[/QUOTE]You could look at the postings of the mod of the LA Sugar thread, Hollywood Guy. He strongly believes that the ones to get are the new ones on the site. Again, every market is local, but he has said that new girls on SA get bombarded with messages, and attractive ones are getting offers of sugar to meet, sometimes ridiculous (thousands). Of course, this pollutes the market for all of us. Anyway, his target demographic is the young ones who really could stand some instruction / indoctrination, so obviously, a girl who has been on the site for months or longer may become jaded. Also, note that if a girl wants to present herself as a newbie, she can just open a new profile that shows a more recent sign-up date using a new email address. Having been on SA for nearly a year, I certainly recognize people who appear to have been on the site only a few days. Not sure if you meant or mentioned this, but you can sort search results by Newest, which means when the profile was created.

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;3342905] One very critical technique that JLZ kept preaching and now I am a major believer. Never commit to $ until AFTER the FC romp. [/QUOTE]It's not an exaggeration to say that simple technique alone would save the bowl, if it were adopted by enough SDs, because more than anything it highlights the difference between sugar dating and anything illegal.

In every case I've heard of where an SD was arrested and made the news, the arrest was made when the girl (not the SD) told the cops that she had agreed to sex for money. Without that key element, there is no arrest, there is no case, there is no law broken. Without arrests, there is no negative light cast on the bowl.

I've found girls actually prefer the legal approach, they just don't know how to go about it. They expect the experienced older guy to have the answers and respect it when he does.

Example exchange:

SB: "Can I ask what my allowance would be?

SD: "Neither of us would be wise to discuss direct offers for sex, it's illegal and not safe for either of us. My past SBs have been very happy with the gifts I provide, I can tell you that, and I think you will be too. " Then you can mention the possibility of more elaborate agreements after you've met and trust has been established.

Example of typical answer from SB: "That makes sense, I'm glad you know what you're doing because I don't! LOL".

Sometimes you get: "Well I need to know how much my allowance is". Some of the SB blogs written by SBs encourage them to push for a predetermined amount, without realizing the risk of the situation. Sometimes a bit of subtle persistence pulls them away from that mentality and down the right path, but sometimes they are a lost cause and try to tie you up in an endless loop of money negotiating. That's okay though, because if they are a lost cause you want to know this as early as possible in the exchange. Tell her negotiations aren't sexy and move on to the next. For every girl that won't do things the reasonable way, there are five more that will. The high quality girls will understand that you've just removed a huge amount of risk from the situation, and made her that much more comfortable about meeting. At this point her curiosity is piqued, and she is driven by the mystery of the situation.

[QUOTE=Falar;3342755]I've notice that a lot of girls are on the site for one day or up to a week. And it's seems like they disappear and never return to the site. I recently returned to the website and I notice it. These are quality profiles the ones I really like. Based on the information provided in the description. They same to be genuine. Any theories on why this happens or have any of you guys talked to an sb about this before?[/QUOTE]I see that all the time too. I think it's mostly girls who decide the site is not what they were expecting. Too many guys treating them like prostitutes and expecting sex on the first meeting. That's the number one complaint I hear about the site from girls I meet on there, at least.

The only hope is to catch them when they're new before other guys have driven them away. But it's tough because, despite the site's claims about their girl-to-guy ratio, new girls get flooded with 100's of messages a day at first if they are 18-22 and hot.

[QUOTE=GiantG;3343031]Hey guys! I'm going to be up in Richmond this week and I was wondering if anyone has any info they could share about Hard2 hndlMilf? I'm thinking about getting together with her but I can't find anything about her. Any help would be appreciated. I'm happy to offer any advice I can if any of you are ever down in Raleigh.[/QUOTE]Met with her once about 6 months ago. A lot of drama and almost didn't go thru with the deed but did and was a lot of fun. Set up a second date with her and she flaked on me so blew her off. I think she's got a lot going on.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3343267]You could look at the postings of the mod of the LA Sugar thread, Hollywood Guy. He strongly believes that the ones to get are the new ones on the site. Again, every market is local, but he has said that new girls on SA get bombarded with messages, and attractive ones are getting offers of sugar to meet, sometimes ridiculous (thousands). Of course, this pollutes the market for all of us. Anyway, his target demographic is the young ones who really could stand some instruction / indoctrination, so obviously, a girl who has been on the site for months or longer may become jaded. Also, note that if a girl wants to present herself as a newbie, she can just open a new profile that shows a more recent sign-up date using a new email address. Having been on SA for nearly a year, I certainly recognize people who appear to have been on the site only a few days. Not sure if you meant or mentioned this, but you can sort search results by Newest, which means when the profile was created.[/QUOTE]Thanks, I appreciate the response. It definitely makes sense. I would prefer to meet the new ones also.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3342709]There's one piece of faulty logic, though. It costs SA nothing to ban a girl, a lot to ban a guy. Girls come on free. Of course, the lure of the 4-6 x as many girls as guys is what gets us to pay our membership, but it's not like any one girl is crucial. Especially when she's doing practices that put the whole site's business at risk. This is why SA should have the report function, and why we should use it.[/QUOTE]The best bet is a burner phone with unlimited data. Pay with cash each month, and Tmobile / Sprint don't have a clue who you are. Second best bet is to use a VPN service like Priviate Internet Acess, and pay with a prepaid card or bitcoin.

The Tor exit node sees your data, the phone company sees your data, the VPN provider sees your data. The only thing you can do is cut out them knowing you.

[QUOTE=UKnowWho;3343348]I see that all the time too. I think it's mostly girls who decide the site is not what they were expecting. Too many guys treating them like prostitutes and expecting sex on the first meeting. That's the number one complaint I hear about the site from girls I meet on there, at least.

The only hope is to catch them when they're new before other guys have driven them away. But it's tough because, despite the site's claims about their girl-to-guy ratio, new girls get flooded with 100's of messages a day at first if they are 18-22 and hot.[/QUOTE]Definitely, I would love to attract those types. I wrote my profile with that in mind to attract those type of women. So far I've been getting favorite responses. But the new ones are limited in the area.

I finally got back together with an old SB, hot, tiny, tattooed AA girl in her 20's. I had pretty much given up on her since being stood up around Thanksgiving. We would send messages occasionally, and I would send her 20 now and then for an emergency. I finally saw her again tonight and had pornstar sex for an hour. Definitely was worth the wait and keeping in contact. Gave her. 6 when we parted. Really seemed to connect and had a great conversation. It's hard to believe how sh##ty some of these girls lives are. She talked about going away on weekends with me. I'll keep low expectations of course. Just letting other guys know you can definitely have a SB w / very small budget.

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;3342905.] Never commit to $ until AFTER the FC romp. .[/QUOTE]So what is happening to the Pot SBs, they are being scammed by Pump and dumpers. These are the "road test" guys who want to sample the goods, or worse, just want a cheap source of a higher quality escort. SA is becoming the new BP and CL. Girls are becoming increasingly wise to this technique. Many of us wouldn't intentionally scam these girls, but it happens with great frequency. Unless they are escorts, they don't want a one time lay. Believe it or not, our dicks aren't made out of gold and the girls are here for the financial help ,not a porn star banger.

So how to stay safe from LE? Don't discuss sex and money at the same visit. Don't talk to them like you talk to escorts-running through the menu of services for a 15 min Pop. And avoid the obvious escorts, even if SA won't dump them. Pickup artists who have game might be able to pull this off IRL, but many of the girls are learning about one and done ghosts.

[QUOTE=OriolesMagic;3344141]I finally got back together with an old SB, hot, tiny, tattooed AA girl in her 20's. I had pretty much given up on her since being stood up around Thanksgiving. We would send messages occasionally, and I would send her 20 now and then for an emergency. I finally saw her again tonight and had pornstar sex for an hour. Definitely was worth the wait and keeping in contact. Gave her. 6 when we parted. Really seemed to connect and had a great conversation. It's hard to believe how sh##ty some of these girls lives are. She talked about going away on weekends with me. I'll keep low expectations of course. Just letting other guys know you can definitely have a SB w / very small budget.[/QUOTE]The value of staying in touch with former SBs or just contacts in general is probably underrated. The best thing to do is get them off of the website and onto some other form of communication (text, email etc) as soon as possible, then establish enough conversation so that if you don't have time to meet her immediately, she'll remember you later on. I've had 100% success rate in re-initiating contact with POTS anywhere from 6 mos to 3 years earlier. I usually just send them a recent pic and make sure they remember talking to me, and let them know when I plan to be in their area. The only reason I sometimes opt for a new SB is because usually former POTS are long-gone from the site, and I worry that they might have changed (gained a few pounds or otherwise gone downhill or whatever), so sometimes I just opt to seek a fresh face.

I've had equally good luck with former SBs that I've taken to the FC, invites to call them anytime I'm in town. I can't say the success rate is 100% with that, more like 99%, only because I had one go sideways. She literally took offense and got pissed when I tried to gift her after an entire night of fantasy-grade fucking, and left the hotel at around 5 am in a huff (not just because she was insulted by the gift, but we were both drinking that night, so one snarky comment or misunderstanding sometimes leads to another). Turns out she was looking for something different, already had plenty of money. In a follow up conversation she apologized (as did I), and told me all of the reasons for stress in her life and why she went all hormonal. Water under the bridge, but I wouldn't see her again.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3344770]The value of staying in touch with former SBs or just contacts in general is probably underrated. The best thing to do is get them off of the website and onto some other form of communication (text, email etc) as soon as possible, then establish enough conversation so that if you don't have time to meet her immediately, she'll remember you later on. I've had 100% success rate in re-initiating contact with POTS anywhere from 6 mos to 3 years earlier. I usually just send them a recent pic and make sure they remember talking to me, and let them know when I plan to be in their area. The only reason I sometimes opt for a new SB is because usually former POTS are long-gone from the site, and I worry that they might have changed (gained a few pounds or otherwise gone downhill or whatever), so sometimes I just opt to seek a fresh face.

I've had equally good luck with former SBs that I've taken to the FC, invites to call them anytime I'm in town. I can't say the success rate is 100% with that, more like 99%, only because I had one go sideways. She literally took offense and got pissed when I tried to gift her after an entire night of fantasy-grade fucking, and left the hotel at around 5 am in a huff (not just because she was insulted by the gift, but we were both drinking that night, so one snarky comment or misunderstanding sometimes leads to another). Turns out she was looking for something different, already had plenty of money. In a follow up conversation she apologized (as did I), and told me all of the reasons for stress in her life and why she went all hormonal. Water under the bridge, but I wouldn't see her again.[/QUOTE]I agree. I just did this myself. Just had brunch w / my first SB, total wet dream, ModelMILF. She's still got the most amazing bangin' bod, petite, slim, w / great full tits, Playboy model quality. We really have a good relationship, not just an arrangement - - that ended because of distance. I contacted her both by text and email to set it up, and she did not get the latter b / c she says she isn't using SA or that sugar address anymore. I believe this both b / c I am on there and would see her unless she does what I do, hide her profile from search, and that we have a good enough relationship that I trust her. She's facing some $ challenges just now, and I was happy to help her out. She showered me with affection and gratitude when she opened my 'Christmas card'. I just can't safely get to her where she lives, but when my SO is out of the country, I have no doubt we'll see each other.