Escort Reviews

[QUOTE=HavinFun179; 1377054]Has anyone seen Haley? I haven't found any reviews on 3 different sites.

Any input would be appreciated.

[url]http://cincinnati.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/available-when-you-need-me-24/6984930[/url][/QUOTE][QUOTE=HavinFun179;1377892]Sorry guys, found it. Ripoffs #411[/QUOTE]Ripoffs # 411 is a different gal; Lauren. 37, not Haley. Not sure what you were referring to when mentioning post # 411; see below.

[url]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?6620-Ripoff-Reports&p=1366195&viewfull=1#post1366195[/url]

Seems as though this young lady, Tiffney Dee, (not her real name) was incarcerated in a surrounding county and realized that she has done adult professional business with a local County Commissioner. So naturally she had to spill this info, not doubt in an attempt to help her own case along, as it seems that she is incarcerated currently. Apparently the Commish stepped down a few days ago, realizing that this bombshell was coming, although he cited health reasons in his resignation. So naturally his political enemies are like sharks in the water and going to see if he committed any crimes in his home county; I. E. Talking on the phone to arrange an illegal engagement. Wow.

The apparent multiple thrists occurred over in NKy at several notels. Mind you, no first hand account of this was witnessed by LE, just the afte the reporting of the event by one of the participants in the crime. This shite is getting crazy now. So if you are a high profile person and have first hand knowledge of this young lady, you might wish to consider an alternate plan or begin working on a resignation. Tiffney Dee's photo and more details about this story can be viewed at the local12 dot com website.

[Actual names and identities withheld so as not to violate forum rules]

[QUOTE=Varoom; 1378199]Ripoffs # 411 is a different gal; Lauren. 37, not Haley. Not sure what you were referring to when mentioning post # 411; see below.

[url]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?6620-Ripoff-Reports&p=1366195&viewfull=1#post1366195[/url][/QUOTE]You're right, thanks for correcting my mistake.

Last week I saw Britney and it was even better than what I remembered from years passed. She typically is only in town for 2 3 days. I have seen her adds on BP and Eros. Her room is alway very clean with candles lit and a nice sent on her as well. Conversation with this one is epic if you like to chit chat. Got half and half and all was covered. 1/2 hour was 150. She is a good transition between the typical BPgirl and the high$ Eros chics. She has tattoos on much of her upper body so if that is not your thing keep it in mind. She usually is in town once or twice a month so keep an eye out for her. Great girl and I recommend!

I have seen Brittany too in the past and she is worth every penny.

QUOTE=ItsTimeToEat; 1381062]Last week I saw Britney and it was even better than what I remembered from years passed. She typically is only in town for 2 3 days. I have seen her adds on BP and Eros. Her room is alway very clean with candles lit and a nice sent on her as well. Conversation with this one is epic if you like to chit chat. Got half and half and all was covered. 1/2 hour was 150. She is a good transition between the typical BPgirl and the high$ Eros chics. She has tattoos on much of her upper body so if that is not your thing keep it in mind. She usually is in town once or twice a month so keep an eye out for her. Great girl and I recommend![/QUOTE]

I keep reading about the bad incall locations of providers. Does any quality and vouched provider provide outcall to the NKY / downtown Cincy area?

[QUOTE=D Nut;1381322]I keep reading about the bad incall locations of providers. Does any quality and vouched provider provide outcall to the NKY / downtown Cincy area?[/QUOTE]Dawn can / will. If you're super nice to her.

[QUOTE=CooperCincy;1381326]Dawn can / will. If you're super nice to her.[/QUOTE]Which Dawn? Can you be more specific? A link to a post, a review, a website, a photo, anything, would be helpful.

[QUOTE=D Nut;1381322]I keep reading about the bad incall locations of providers. Does any quality and vouched provider provide outcall to the NKY / downtown Cincy area?[/QUOTE]You might want to try Karla:

[url]http://karla.escortwww.com/aboutme.php[/url]

I have had numerous dreams about her and they have all been very vivid!

PM me if you want more info.

[QUOTE=CooperCincy; 1365860]Don't overpay.

Thanks for the info everyone! I always thought that the asking price was non-negotiable![/QUOTE]

It is considered rude to attempt to haggle, however that does not mean you don't have the right to not book if you feel the price is too high for the service offered. Furthermore, if a provider later asks you,"why did you decide to not book with me?" there is nothing wrong with telling her why she won't have your business:

[b]Your price is too high for this region, I found four other providers, of excellent reputation, that are considerably lower than the rate you quoted me, so I think I am going to book with another lady, sorry. [/b]

Keep in mind you are not horsetrading when you say something like this, you are just giving them feedback from the marketplace.

Don't be crass, don't be rude, just politely inform her that she is out of your price range, then move on.

Eventually, if enough hobbyist give her similar feedback and she can't pay her bills because no one is booking with her, she will either adjust her rates to be more reasonable, move to a different region that will pay those rates, or get a different job.

They can decide whether or not to take you as a client, but ultimately it is your money-don't waste it. You control the currency, they control the product and service. This is no different than any other transaction in the marketplace. If a company rep called you and asked why you switched from cable to satellite, you would have no problem saying that their "package was too expensive and the service was bad, so I went with a different company," would you?

Remember, wait for them to query you on the reason you didn't book. Don't offer unsolicited advice, that rarely goes well. They will see it as haggling and will jump down your throat.

Their lack of bookings will speak loudest.

I'm very curious why it is considered rude to try to haggle with providers? I find that to be very non-sensical.

Have said so. Yet women will ask when you say they are too high, well what did you have in mind. Then if women get insulted by your answer, some of them have been known to put men on the dreaded "BLACK LIST" because they haggled even though some women asked them what they had in mind. I have said many times, I don't care how many kids you have or how big your bills are. I didn't give you the kids or cause your economic situation. Don't expect me to pay for your kids needs with big donations and don't ask me to help you with a bill or two because you can't meet your needs. Just my 2 cents. Great question BTW.

Recently had the pleasure of visiting with Jade's friend Paige. And it was a pleasure. As has been said before, the location needs a change of venue. Had it been an afterdark appointment I would likely have called in sane but I was willing to take the leap in daylight.

To sum it up, a good time was had by all. Seniors may PM for more info.

I have to wholeheartedly disagree. These women are selling a service. It's no different than having your car tuned up or your plumbing unclogged. I'm fine if a provider "blacklists" me because I ask if they can perform service x for price why. I have seen many quality providers at prices lower than their advertised price because I simply asked and they were amenable. Sometimes it's cause they needed a little bit of cash quick and that works for me. I'm not rude about it and I don't get offended when they tell me that they can't meet my price point. If they get their panties in a knot over that I can't help it. They are a commodity. Do you just pay sticker when you buy a car because it would be rude to haggle with the salesman?

[QUOTE=Mrrdfun;1381936]I have to wholeheartedly disagree. These women are selling a service. It's no different than having your car tuned up or your plumbing unclogged. I'm fine if a provider "blacklists" me because I ask if they can perform service x for price why. I have seen many quality providers at prices lower than their advertised price because I simply asked and they were amenable. Sometimes it's cause they needed a little bit of cash quick and that works for me. I'm not rude about it and I don't get offended when they tell me that they can't meet my price point. If they get their panties in a knot over that I can't help it. They are a commodity. Do you just pay sticker when you buy a car because it would be rude to haggle with the salesman?[/QUOTE]I agree. It is your money and it is their service. You have the right to say no and they have the right to say no. I have offered to pay less than the listed price and as long as we both agree upfront then there is no problem. If the price is implied and no discussion, then I would pay the implied price. I have the right to only pay what I think the service is worth to me, but then, they may disagree and then I move on.

[QUOTE=Mrrdfun;1381745]I'm very curious why it is considered rude to try to haggle with providers? I find that to be very non-sensical.[/QUOTE]Try that with a few of the established providers on say ECCIE, Indys or P411 and let me know how that goes for you.

I've tried it with higher end providers on here, BP, CL, Indy's, etc. It typically is a no but that's ok. If I had unlimited resources I would probably pay and move on but I don't. You would be surprised, if you catch a provider at the right time, the value you can get for your money. I've received services from higher end ($ hhr and up) for sometimes as little as .5 for the hhr by asking, being polite and understanding this is how they make their living so with the additional proviso that I never reveal the deal I've received. Granted that is the true exception rather than the rule but it has allowed me to spend some time with some beautiful, talented women that I would, otherwise, never get to see. To each their own but IMHO it's a business transaction and the normal rules apply. If you don't ask, you won't know!

[QUOTE=Mrrdfun;1381745]I'm very curious why it is considered rude to try to haggle with providers? I find that to be very non-sensical.[/QUOTE]I'm going to put my 2 cents in on this one. I don't think its rude at all I'm speeking for myself of course. But also take in consideration most of you hobbiest from what I read like the high milage girls. As for me I'm not one of them. If you are seeing a provider on a regular basis there shouldn't be a problem being haggled as you put it. On the other hand if your only seeing a provider every once in awhile then I don't think you should haggle. I just think thats fair. I guess its just me and maybe I shouldn't post this but what the hell. Happy Valentines Day To all you Hobbiest! Muaw!

Pleae be nice with your replies.

Thanks Candy

[QUOTE=Mrrdfun;1382207]I've tried it with higher end providers on here, BP, CL, Indy's, etc. It typically is a no but that's ok. If I had unlimited resources I would probably pay and move on but I don't. You would be surprised, if you catch a provider at the right time, the value you can get for your money. I've received services from higher end ($ hhr and up) for sometimes as little as .5 for the hhr by asking, being polite and understanding this is how they make their living so with the additional proviso that I never reveal the deal I've received. Granted that is the true exception rather than the rule but it has allowed me to spend some time with some beautiful, talented women that I would, otherwise, never get to see. To each their own but IMHO it's a business transaction and the normal rules apply. If you don't ask, you won't know![/QUOTE]There is a well reviewed provider on here that charges me half her gping rate so long as I don't tell our secret.

[QUOTE=CandyCream31; 1382273]I'm going to put my 2 cents in on this one. I don't think its rude at all I'm speeking for myself of course. But also take in consideration most of you hobbiest from what I read like the high milage girls. As for me I'm not one of them. If you are seeing a provider on a regular basis there shouldn't be a problem being haggled as you put it. On the other hand if your only seeing a provider every once in awhile then I don't think you should haggle. I just think thats fair. I guess its just me and maybe I shouldn't post this but what the hell. Happy Valentines Day To all you Hobbiest! Muaw!

Pleae be nice with your replies.

Thanks Candy[/QUOTE]If you are a regular you should get more haggle room. Now in the begining I still haggle, mainly because that is all I can afford. If I had a strong income it wouldn't matter then. I have seen some as low as. 3 hhr if I could get my atf to do that I would go every week.

[QUOTE=Mrrdfun;1381745]I'm very curious why it is considered rude to try to haggle with providers? I find that to be very non-sensical.[/QUOTE]I've got to admit I personally don't like to haggle. It's the kind of business where you don't necessarily "win" in the end even if you "win" in the negotiations if the provider isn't happy about it and doesn't give good service.

Then again, just yesterday, there was a seemingly very attractive provider (from her pix) who quoted me $.75. I said I'm sorry but that's more than I can pay. She said,"How much do you have?" I said I was a little embarrassed, because what I had in mind was probably far too low and she deserved better. But she asked again, and I said $, which is pretty much my top price these days. And she said OK.

I was being pretty coy and sweet about it, but it wasn't an act. After she quoted the price, I really didn't think she would come down to mine. But I was also perfectly willing to walk away. And she was clearly willing to negotiate from the beginning.

Now, the end of the story is that I showed up and called at the apppointed time and she was still in traffic. I kinda got from the garbled phone conversation that because I hadn't called in the hour between when we first spoke and then that she wasn't sure I was coming, but that she could make it later. I could have rescheduled, but just went with another provider who was happy with the $, not quite as attractive, but a lot of fun. Plan A could still work out someday. We'll see.

I have had providers after a first session offer lower rates for returns, kind of bidding against themselves to get me to come back for a future visit. If you treat them well and they enjoy themselves, you'd be amazed how that can figure to your advantage.

But, just like buying a car, the key negotiating point is being willing to walk. It's not an act with me. I really am, because there's always someone else and I don't have to have any of them. You can politely say that's more than I usually pay or more than I can pay and wait to hear a response. You'll be amazed how many are open to negotiation and how far they'll come down. But I think you're better approaching it that way than immediately responding with a counter-offer in more of a haggling situation.

[QUOTE=Bucks97; 1382424]I've got to admit I personally don't like to haggle. It's the kind of business where you don't necessarily "win" in the end even if you "win" in the negotiations if the provider isn't happy about it and doesn't give good service.

Then again, just yesterday, there was a seemingly very attractive provider (from her pix) who quoted me $.75. I said I'm sorry but that's more than I can pay. She said,"How much do you have?" I said I was a little embarrassed, because what I had in mind was probably far too low and she deserved better. But she asked again, and I said $, which is pretty much my top price these days. And she said OK.

I was being pretty coy and sweet about it, but it wasn't an act. After she quoted the price, I really didn't think she would come down to mine. But I was also perfectly willing to walk away. And she was clearly willing to negotiate from the beginning.

Now, the end of the story is that I showed up and called at the apppointed time and she was still in traffic. I kinda got from the garbled phone conversation that because I hadn't called in the hour between when we first spoke and then that she wasn't sure I was coming, but that she could make it later. I could have rescheduled, but just went with another provider who was happy with the $, not quite as attractive, but a lot of fun. Plan A could still work out someday. We'll see.

I have had providers after a first session offer lower rates for returns, kind of bidding against themselves to get me to come back for a future visit. If you treat them well and they enjoy themselves, you'd be amazed how that can figure to your advantage.

But, just like buying a car, the key negotiating point is being willing to walk. It's not an act with me. I really am, because there's always someone else and I don't have to have any of them. You can politely say that's more than I usually pay or more than I can pay and wait to hear a response. You'll be amazed how many are open to negotiation and how far they'll come down. But I think you're better approaching it that way than immediately responding with a counter-offer in more of a haggling situation.[/QUOTE]I usually have a price. The provider tells me how much, I tell them, honestly, if I can't afford them. Sometimes they'll ask, sometimes they won't. Sometimes I'll just reply with "Sorry, I only have. 75" and they'll ask what I'm looking for. It doesn't always get worked out but often enough it does. If it weren't for these occurrences I wouldn't see many of the providers I do. Thanks for the discourse!

[QUOTE=Mrrdfun;1382439]I usually have a price. The provider tells me how much, I tell them, honestly, if I can't afford them. Sometimes they'll ask, sometimes they won't. Sometimes I'll just reply with "Sorry, I only have. 75" and they'll ask what I'm looking for. It doesn't always get worked out but often enough it does. If it weren't for these occurrences I wouldn't see many of the providers I do. Thanks for the discourse![/QUOTE]Have a provider I paid .6 to, a little older, not the most attractive, but unless something is absolutely horrible, I usually complete the deal once I'm there. And she had not misrepresented herself. She clearly had a good time and so did I really, though probably not enough to repeat. By the time I was out the door though she had offered .4 or maybe .2 or whatever I had at the time if I wanted to come back. I could probably have done it for a pack of cigarettes in the future. But I've also had even more attractive ones leave the door open to much better rates for repeats.

For those of us who love to haggle like a MOFO you are taking away our fun. For the women who have developed a thousand reasons why they just can't go that low, rent, baby food, utilities, preggos, taking care of my LABF, Pimp, who want me to go out and put out so he can buy his? Well you know, and the myriad of other reasons for needing dollars you are stifling creativity for the female gender. Some years back on two midwest boards there were a group of women who thought they owned the states, and did, and had a gold lined sn*tches. If you didn't come across no puzzy for you buddy <said in the best soup Nazi voice. The place was crawling with white knights hoping for crumbs and discounted puzzy but it didn't happen because they had men convinced they controlled the goodies. Then along came two guys who told them No reasonable donations no dollars for you baby. And damned if shit didn't turn around quick. Most of those guys left the boards because a very few told them off and to f themselves and really got pissed after they put them on BLTs for nothing more than calling them out. Now those boards are dead as hell and because of a few of the old dogs who are still around talking shit and smack and still think ten years later they still have gold lined sn*tches. Thank god many of the ladies on USASG are willing to at least discuss it with and open mind. Might not agree all the time but I have had the pleasure of some ladies who are super BCDs and are very open to being a good provider with negotiated terms which more than not meet my needs and I am tight fisted due to my own home needs. Ladies as long as this profession is inundated by a massive number of ladies the rates will always be reasonable in general Supply and demand. Doesn't mean we can't be kind and discuss it like mature adults with each other. We can. There are fine ladies who understand the economy and the fact that men are not bottomless pits of $$s. I admire CCream for stepping forward That took guts and she has my admiration for doing so. Have a great day

In all things, It's is not what you do but how you do it.

Most ladies are willing to be cooperative within reason.

If you handle your negotiations in a respectful and courteous manner, you build a better change of having a mutually fun & beneficial business arrangement.

If she can do it she will and if she can't she won't.

No one wants to spend time with a turd and that goes both ways.

Wish I could fidna provider like that. If you have it available pm me her contact information.

[QUOTE=Bucks97;1382444]Have a provider I paid .6 to, a little older, not the most attractive, but unless something is absolutely horrible, I usually complete the deal once I'm there. And she had not misrepresented herself. She clearly had a good time and so did I really, though probably not enough to repeat. By the time I was out the door though she had offered .4 or maybe .2 or whatever I had at the time if I wanted to come back. I could probably have done it for a pack of cigarettes in the future. But I've also had even more attractive ones leave the door open to much better rates for repeats.[/QUOTE]

Unless the lady / ladies in question don't change their minds after they get the envelope or C and D after closing the deal. Most ladies I have had the pleasure of sharing my bed and round body with, really love what they do and love what a man with skills can do for them. When you find a lady who not only loves to rock a man's world but loves to say "come here big boy and make me scream in a goooooddddd way baby, then many of us might have a friend for a long time LOL Having seen your photos Goddess one never knows what might come up on both sides in a good way from pure powerplay pleasure. Waking up now from my fantasy and going off to search for my sexual dynamo that can make me the milking machine of human kindness and the lady "the motion explosion that gives the gift that keeps on giving for a long time". Kisses to the ladies. Men get your own.

Called Molly who has an ad on here and set an appointment with her for this afternoon. She absolutly blew me away! Very passionate. Great body. And absolutly increadible service. Gentlemen I think I found a new regular too see very often!

Wdm

Has anyone had any interaction with her since the weekend? No response to calls or texts. Please PM me if you have details. Thanks!

Mrrd

So I'm new to the hobby and have lurked here on the forums for the past few months, and I'm going to be making an appointment to see someone, next week.

My question is who? From all the reviews I'm thinking about Petra, does anyone have any other recommendations if I'm unable to get a hold of her?

[QUOTE=Newbie 101; 1384601]I decided to share some more time with Chrystal, yesterday. Not our first session. And, I must add, she brought her "A" game! OH MY! I have heard a rumor that she may be leaving the hobby. So, if you have shared time with her and would like one more taste. Time may be running out. I will definitely grab as much time as she allows before her retirement party!

101[/QUOTE]Can you confirm her digits? The ones I have used before / posted here on the board don't seem to be working for me. Or maybe she is mad at me.

Alex of Dayton is absolutely worth the trip. Find her listings in the Dayton Classifieds on this site. Good hunting.

Be safe,

Cam

[QUOTE=Habignale; 1384274]So I'm new to the hobby and have lurked here on the forums for the past few months, and I'm going to be making an appointment to see someone, next week.

My question is who? From all the reviews I'm thinking about Petra, does anyone have any other recommendations if I'm unable to get a hold of her?[/QUOTE]

Does anyone know of any in-calls in the Lebanon area? Any help would be appreciated.

Then giving us her rates in another? Makes no sense. IF she is as bad as you say in your first post, then why not let it go? No offense meant. Just doesn't makes sense. BMack

This board I so Fucked up anymore it makes me sick. No wonder some of the past prolific contributers stay UTR, including me! I could go on about the wanabies and nubies, but not worth the time or effort. So much time and effort is spent on the "new" faces that are somewhat less than then steelar, shittie locations, issues, druggies, etc, but have cut rate donations that everyone beats the door down to see. Hey, that is fine for those who wish to partake. Times are tough for all. I personally will keep my funds for the well proven and no hassle providers who have shown time after time they are tops in this town. Yada, yada, yada.

Just saying.

WM

[QUOTE=Newbie 101;1385531]just so you know, .4 for a 1/2 and 1/2.[/QUOTE]I was asking for her phone number, not her rates!

PLEASE. Give me a good number to call the lady!

[QUOTE=Newbie 101; 1385530]Wow! What a turn of events. Chrystal is a case of changing identity. I guess it must depend on the med cycle. Yesterday was supposed to be a retirement play date. I must admit, I was all excited. As it tuned out it was. I will never go there again. I retired her.

Total, disappointment. She was completely lost in her meds. I felt sorry for her, let her sleep, and tipped her to go away. Then, noticed this morning that things were missing. I didn't think I left her alone long enought for that to happen. Oh well. Lessson learned.

BTW. She is not retiring, that was just a game for tips, I guess. SWs are looking better every day! At least you know what you are getting there!

101.[/QUOTE]For those of you who know Chrystal and have read the posts from Newbie 101, whose meds do you think need adjustment? Just asking!

[QUOTE=Wingman Todd; 1385768]This board I so Fucked up anymore it makes me sick. No wonder some of the past prolific contributers stay UTR, including me! I could go on about the wanabies and nubies, but not worth the time or effort. So much time and effort is spent on the "new" faces that are somewhat less than then steelar, shittie locations, issues, druggies, etc, but have cut rate donations that everyone beats the door down to see. Hey, that is fine for those who wish to partake. Times are tough for all. I personally will keep my funds for the well proven and no hassle providers who have shown time after time they are tops in this town. Yada, yada, yada.

Just saying.

WM[/QUOTE]I'm sure its painful putting up with us wannabies and nubies. There is no doubt we don't quite get it yet. And some of us never will. Being one myself, I have to say. Thank you. The seniors wisdom, guidance, and post have been more than invaluable. You guys are a great resource and great teachers of the hobby. In short, I'm very grateful for the guidance. And honestly, while you're sitting on the digits of the well proven hassle free providers (a privilege earned) , I'm left with backpage ads and reading the other nubie post (putting in my dues).

Hats off to the seniors that share, much respect and appreciation.

[QUOTE=Wingman Todd; 1385768]This board I so Fucked up anymore it makes me sick. No wonder some of the past prolific contributers stay UTR, including me! I could go on about the wanabies and nubies, but not worth the time or effort. So much time and effort is spent on the "new" faces that are somewhat less than then steelar, shittie locations, issues, druggies, etc, but have cut rate donations that everyone beats the door down to see. Hey, that is fine for those who wish to partake. Times are tough for all. I personally will keep my funds for the well proven and no hassle providers who have shown time after time they are tops in this town. Yada, yada, yada.

Just saying.

WM[/QUOTE]Thanks for making this a much better place with this post. If you don't like it here, there are plenty of others.

[QUOTE=HavinFun179; 1385946]I'm sure its painful putting up with us wannabies and nubies. There is no doubt we don't quite get it yet. And some of us never will. Being one myself, I have to say. Thank you. The seniors wisdom, guidance, and post have been more than invaluable. You guys are a great resource and great teachers of the hobby. In short, I'm very grateful for the guidance. And honestly, while you're sitting on the digits of the well proven hassle free providers (a privilege earned) , I'm left with backpage ads and reading the other nubie post (putting in my dues).

Hats off to the seniors that share, much respect and appreciation.[/QUOTE]Brother, we've all been there. New to this board, and others.

There are some that just call ya an outright f*kwad for not laying everything out to them after they've been here for a month and made a few posts.

It is a responsibility, incumbent upon everyone here, to protect providers by not passing along info to someone who is not truly vetted.

The minute that someone does, and that provider gets a ride out of it, the integrity of the entire board goes down hill.

So those that have been around awhile simply endure the verbal abuse of those that been here a short time and think that have earned something. Frankly it shows immaturity of those that showed up recently and do not understand this, and the reason why the protection of info exists.

It is not for any reason of homage to any Senior Member, it is for the safety of all those who partake in the hobby. And if you don't get that, then you won't ever be a valuable contributor here. Certainly some, and maybe many newbies get it, but the vocal few that rant and rave about the Sr member, as if it is about the Sr member, never will get it.

It has been said many times before. Contribute some valued intel, RTFF, contrinbute some more intel, and yep, you guessed it, RTFF some more. Before you know it, you've enhanced the place along with your own Rep. And that is when you get others to share some intel. But, keep in mind, some Srs never share intel; they just don't. They don't with even the other Seniors, so don't take this shit personally and stop raggin on one another. Play the game by the rules as it is to be played, one and all. It simply works much better that way.