Massage Parlor Reports

[QUOTE=Lip Licker]TT just is expressing what a lot of significant contributors and Senior Members feel(including myself). NooB's jumping on the board without contributing and asking questions that have already been answered in prior posts. You have to EARN respect brah. Seems every so often there are a bunch of one-post fools who just post questions without contributing anything of any significance which defeats the purpose of having a forum like this. What pisses me off is that people are too lazy to go back and RTFF expecting other members to hand them info on a silver platter.

Back to the topic at hand, visited Kelly from Pro Massage for the third time but no extras. At least the massage is okay and she takes the full hour. I would really have liked to try her out on that bed though but from all indications and past posts, she is strictly legit.[/QUOTE]General rules of the forum below. There is no dialogue about EARNING respect, braddha. I would welcome noobies to ask questions, as a forum member (senior or newbie), you can a) reply or b) not reply. KCB simply stated, hey why jump on the guy, if your going to reply simply answer his question.

By the way, avoid at costs possible Deja and Lyla, as advertised on CL and Bailee from Volcano girls. Simply a horrible experience.

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Lex would like to weigh in on this issue of FNG's and their silly posts.

Imagine if this were a forum about wine and you had veteran forum members who wanted to raise the level of discussion a bit. Then imagine a new guy comes on and wants to know where they can get a bottle of cheap Italian wine, how much it will cost, what kind of bag it comes in, etc. What kind of reception would he get?

It's analogous to the situation here. A new guy has to take his licks like we did. He has to spend some money learning the hobby, contribute, etc. before he's going to get any respect.

Just my opinion.

Lex

Thought I'd weigh in on the Noob subject. My number of posts may not indicate how often I visit this forum, but I truly appreciate the info garnered here. You guys have not only saved me some $, but guided me towards a much more "fullfilling" experience. If I posted all of those encounters, it would be somewhat repetetive, thus the low # of posts. So perhaps, as fellow hobbyists, give the guy a break! After all we are on the same "team"! Much mahalo to all who post regularly, if I met any of you in a bar, a drink or two on me would certainly be in order. (just not champagne)

[QUOTE=LexLuther]Lex would like to weigh in on this issue of FNG's and their silly posts.

Imagine if this were a forum about wine and you had veteran forum members who wanted to raise the level of discussion a bit. Then imagine a new guy comes on and wants to know where they can get a bottle of cheap Italian wine, how much it will cost, what kind of bag it comes in, etc. What kind of reception would he get?

It's analogous to the situation here. A new guy has to take his licks like we did. He has to spend some money learning the hobby, contribute, etc. before he's going to get any respect.

Lex[/QUOTE]You have a point, Lex. Keep in mind, though, that this is a public forum, open to anyone. Also, the original poster stated he was visiting...I think he should be cut a little slack. If you read the first couple of pages in this thread there really isn't that much information about what the guy was seeking.

Now, you or any other senior member can lay into me because I don't post much here, but that doesn't mean I have any less experience or knowledge about the hobby scene than you do. Fact is, I rarely read this forum because the level of information is pretty low (sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone). I would guess that I probably know as much about the hobby scene as anyone who posts here.

Anyway, this is just my opinon, but if you're rude to new posters, they are not very likely to post again and contribute. Happy hobbying.

Earning respect is hardly ever stated in any dialogue of rules. It should be unspoken and is part of any society or community. This virtual community is no exception. Nothing is ever "free" even if it does not cost any money. I would say that most members post because they want to help others who help others. They want a return on their investment too, not just a free lunch. Speaking of free lunch, just imagine a pot luck where everyone brings something to the table. There may be times where some of the participants don't bring any food, and that is OK; they brought stuff before. There are other times when invited guests also do not bring food, and that is OK too; they are welcome due to some affiliation with the group, but when someone off the street comes by and just tries to take food and ask why there is no more steak, that is not OK. Now, just imagine this guy coming to all your potlucks without bringing anything to the table. I know I get pissed at that.

$.02

2650

Here is my take.

When you first join a board, you are for all intents and purposes, a guest. As such, you are also under scrutiny by longtime members. One of the cardinal sins of any newbie is to ask a question that has been answered time and time again. The answers are readily available if they do a search and if they say something like, "I searched and have narrowed it down to ..." it wouldn't be so bad. However, when they just ask "where's the best place for ..." they will get reamed on 9 out of 10 boards.

The problem is not lack of Aloha or respect, it is that people are tired of being asked the same questions over and over.

[QUOTE=kimcheeboy]
Now, you or any other senior member can lay into me because I don't post much here, but that doesn't mean I have any less experience or knowledge about the hobby scene than you do. Fact is, I rarely read this forum because the level of information is pretty low (sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone). I would guess that I probably know as much about the hobby scene as anyone who posts here.
[/QUOTE]

The reason for the lack of content is not lack of knowledge, but lack of any real sharing. Most members tend to throw a bone, when they are seeking info, but do not give out their real gems. They have far more knowledge than they generally share due to selfish reasons. Not trying to slam members. It's human nature to share a bit and hide what you treasure. Especially when the supply is limited. Compare that to the BKK threads, where supply exceeds demand and there are thousands of posts.

Then there are the leeches who just want, want, want and never give. Or lurkers, who sit in the background just reading, but never contributing. That turns off other members who know alot, but just can't stand feeding them when they don't give back, so they keep the info and just PM those they like.

There's also the fact that Hawaii is also fairly simple to learn. There are only so many KB's, VB's, escorts, AMP's before you find yourself doing the same old thing.

Then you get off the rock!

AT2

[QUOTE=John Ross]Here is my take.

When you first join a board, you are for all intents and purposes, a guest. As such, you are also under scrutiny by longtime members. One of the cardinal sins of any newbie is to ask a question that has been answered time and time again. The answers are readily available if they do a search and if they say something like, "I searched and have narrowed it down to ..." it wouldn't be so bad. However, when they just ask "where's the best place for ..." they will get reamed on 9 out of 10 boards.

The problem is not lack of Aloha or respect, it is that people are tired of being asked the same questions over and over.[/QUOTE]I think you and some others need to get laid more often. ;-)

The question the guy originally asked is not one I've seen in this particular thread (I only went back 5 pages or so). Most of the info in this thread is at least a few months old. As you know, old information about the hobby is unreliable. IM has a pretty high turnover rate, so does JJ spa.

As someone said earlier, if you don't want to share the info with a newbie, you can just ignore him. No need to rip into the guy. Make him feel welcome into the brotherhood of hobbyists. If he gets treated right, he may become a regular poster. If he isn't, no way is he going to share info and post anything.
And if you think he deserved to be reamed, then you have no idea what "aloha" is about.

And for the record, I am a longtime member of this board (probably longer than all of the senior members who don't like the idea of a newbie asking questions, at least a year longer than you, John). I used to be an active poster under a different handle. I stopped posting not because I no longer wanted to share the information I had, but rather because I got tired of the lack of respect people showed for each other. It wasn't any fun to read the board.

If you want to continue to berate new members who show up, you can choose to do so, I suppose (I know that you didn't do that in this case). But you can also ask yourself, is the board as good a source of information as I would like?

I've been around a lot longer than John Ross has, too. I did not berate anyone, just explaining the reasoning behind some of the curt replies. I think newbies should try and do a search on this board before posting where can I find ... Another reason why people are curt is that this sort of post is rather overt and lots of hobbyists prefer to be covert to stay away from LEOs.

As for getting laid, I do that quite frequently as I do have a girlfriend. That is why I haven't been hanging at KBs and VBs too much these days. Loose lips sinks ships and those bar girls talk alot!

[QUOTE=John Ross]I've been around a lot longer than John Ross has, too. I did not berate anyone, just explaining the reasoning behind some of the curt replies. I think newbies should try and do a search on this board before posting where can I find ... Another reason why people are curt is that this sort of post is rather overt and lots of hobbyists prefer to be covert to stay away from LEOs.

As for getting laid, I do that quite frequently as I do have a girlfriend. That is why I haven't been hanging at KBs and VBs too much these days. Loose lips sinks ships and those bar girls talk alot![/QUOTE]
Huh? Aren't you John Ross? Or is there another John Ross thats a member? I'm confused.

[QUOTE=Jack Mehoff]Huh? Aren't you John Ross? Or is there another John Ross thats a member? I'm confused.[/QUOTE]
I had one of those Member # xxxx names before. Can't remember the name and don't have those e-mail accounts anymore. I was pretty much just a lurker back then.

I agree that searching the forum first before asking point blank questions would be the way to go, but I don't see any reason to be rude about it when you suggest that a newbie search first and ask after, only if they can't find what they're looking for already answered in a previous post. Hey, we were all newbies at one time, so don't get on your high horse and belittle someone just because you think you've earned the right to.

If it pisses you off so much that someone is asking a question, why even bother replying? Just ignore the post. Simple. Don't get your BVDs in a knot over it.

Some newbies, especially if they're new to forums of any kind altogether, may not know that they can search the forum and just have to be informed that it can be done.

Anyway, I hope we can get back to posting about massage therapists in this thread, being as that's what it's about. Maybe there should be a "gripes" thread where we can stick stuff like this so we don't "pollute" any given thread with stuff like this that's away from intel to help each other out. Admins, what do you think?

I might be heading up to Ohana today. Will report back on what's going on up there, if I do go, though I suspect it'll be pretty much "same old-same old".

[QUOTE=kimcheeboy]I think you and some others need to get laid more often. ;-)

The question the guy originally asked is not one I've seen in this particular thread (I only went back 5 pages or so). Most of the info in this thread is at least a few months old. As you know, old information about the hobby is unreliable. IM has a pretty high turnover rate, so does JJ spa.

As someone said earlier, if you don't want to share the info with a newbie, you can just ignore him. No need to rip into the guy. Make him feel welcome into the brotherhood of hobbyists. If he gets treated right, he may become a regular poster. If he isn't, no way is he going to share info and post anything.
And if you think he deserved to be reamed, then you have no idea what "aloha" is about.

And for the record, I am a longtime member of this board (probably longer than all of the senior members who don't like the idea of a newbie asking questions, at least a year longer than you, John). I used to be an active poster under a different handle. I stopped posting not because I no longer wanted to share the information I had, but rather because I got tired of the lack of respect people showed for each other. It wasn't any fun to read the board.

If you want to continue to berate new members who show up, you can choose to do so, I suppose (I know that you didn't do that in this case). But you can also ask yourself, is the board as good a source of information as I would like?[/QUOTE]

I normally don't like to post these kinds of comments but I feel the need to support our significant contributors:

Your post doesn't make any sense KCB, For one, the question the guy asked was where to get a cheap massage with release which is what this entire thread is about so how can you say his question hasn't been answered?!?

What does having "aloha" have to do with posting opinions on a board such as this. Why don't you show some "aloha" to the members by posting useful information on a regular basis. Replying to posts from NooB's whose first posts are questions with valuable insider information is IMHO foolish. Look at his post, he's from out of town, never posted any useful information anywhere on this board and already has irritated several significant members of this board. I don't answer questions posted by NooB's for many reasons, some of which are:
1)They could be LE fishing for information
2)Just from their implied attitude, they are probably bad customers also who will ruin it for the rest of us with our better providers
3)They are unlikely to post any useful information in the future(longtime members should have recognized this trend within their first 6 months of reading the forums)

Being a "longtime member of this board" doesn't mean jack unless you are posting useful information. John Ross and other senior members have been posting a lot of useful information here while I'm sure there are hundreds(probably more) that read and never(or rarely) post. I also haven't seen any "lack of respect" as you have mentioned in the past 2+ years on the Hawaii section of this forum other than NooB's asking questions without giving anything back.

I didn't tell the NooB to RTFF because I got tired of repeatedly telling people to RTFF but I'm glad that Tiantain did.

Lastly, I DO need to get laid more often but by different, hotter girls. Alas, I am not independantly wealthy yet and don't live in ancient China or Saudi Arabia so I'll have to settle for the Rosie Palms, my GF, FTFs and all the poontang I can buy.

I wonder if that guy even re-checked the forum after his initial post.

Maybe all this discussion was for nothing. He had nothing to say after the fact, it seems.

I'm new, but I agree with the "just ignore him" group. After I found out about this forum, I spent many hours (yes I have no life) looking through past posts for good info (but not all at once - no life, but I do have a job). That's what every new member should do, I think, before asking questions that can be answered by RTF.

BTW, I'm guilty of lurking 100 times more than I post, but that's just because I can only afford to monger very rarely - I only did once in the months since I found out about this forum. Some of us broke-ass lurkers are dying to have something good to post. So, my point is, some of us lurkers have good intentions, just not enough opportunities. Please don't group all of us with the lazy, didn't-RTFF-guy. He he.

Kimcheeboy or Member #2340
Tofupatty is in need of your assistants. Go to the Massage Parlor Reports.

[QUOTE=Tiantain]Kimcheeboy or Member #2340
Tofupatty is in need of your assistants. Go to the Massage Parlor Reports.[/QUOTE]

Tiantain,

I saw that post. I did not provide much Aloha, but I tried to avoid a full slam. My experience is that these posters who have one post, a question when they need an answer, never become contributors. Even if you give them a nice response.

AT2

[QUOTE=Primal Needs]
BTW, I'm guilty of lurking 100 times more than I post, but that's just because I can only afford to monger very rarely - I only did once in the months since I found out about this forum. Some of us broke-ass lurkers are dying to have something good to post. So, my point is, some of us lurkers have good intentions, just not enough opportunities. Please don't group all of us with the lazy, didn't-RTFF-guy. He he.[/QUOTE]

Primal,

Understood. Keep in mind there are other ways of contributing. If you see a new place, but have not tried, bring it up. If you heard something to the grapevine, bring it up. There will be others who can then join the conversation and provide their two cents.

Sometimes all it takes is a conversation starter.

AT2

[URL="http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/ths/198624292.html"]http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/ths/198624292.html[/URL]
[B][I]
50.00 per hour for in call. 80.00 per hour for outcall to waikiki hotels only.

Japanese style massage by a licenced thereapist.also can do sweedish,Shiatsu,LomiLomi, Sports, and reflexology.

808-258-1250 or 808-735-3501 [/I][/B]

Anyone made an appointment yet??? I've been looking for a Japanese therapist for awhile. I may schedule something if work does not intefere...

Uncle Buck

Anyone know of a therapist that will do a genuine reflexiology treatment. If anyone's been to China, their "foot massages" are AWESOME and only $6 for 1 1/2 hours. They hit all the pressure points. I tried a couple in Hawaii but they basically rub your feet.

[QUOTE=Tiantain]Kimcheeboy or Member #2340,

Tofupatty is in need of your assistants. Go to the Massage Parlor Reports.[/QUOTE]Tofu needs our "assistants" (lol). Nice spelling dude, been in this country long? Or is it, you just do not have a strong command of english? For those "senior members" lacking a strong command of the english language, please consult a dictionary prior to posting. It makes it really difficult for us myopic noobies to understand what the hell your trying to say.

[QUOTE=dragon419]Anyone know of a therapist that will do a genuine reflexiology treatment. If anyone's been to China, their "foot massages" are AWESOME and only $6 for 1 1/2 hours. They hit all the pressure points. I tried a couple in Hawaii but they basically rub your feet.[/QUOTE]

I had the Shanghai surprise, where they work the foot, legs and then some. Excellent! Brings back memories. 1 1/2 hours of pure pampering.

AT2

[QUOTE=Member #2340]Tofu needs our "assistants" (lol). Nice spelling dude, been in this country long? Or is it, you just do not have a strong command of english? For those "senior members" lacking a strong command of the english language, please consult a dictionary prior to posting. It makes it really difficult for us myopic noobies to understand what the hell your trying to say.[/QUOTE]

The only spelling mistake that irritates me is "they're", "there", and "their". But, anyway, enough attacking each other.

[QUOTE=Member #2340]It makes it really difficult for us myopic noobies to understand what the hell your trying to say.[/QUOTE]It's you're, not YOUR.

Aloha!

Mapu

[QUOTE=Member #2340]Tofu needs our "assistants" (lol). Nice spelling dude, been in this country long? Or is it, you just do not have a strong command of english? For those "senior members" lacking a strong command of the english language, please consult a dictionary prior to posting. It makes it really difficult for us myopic noobies to understand what the hell your trying to say.[/QUOTE]
You are absolutely correct. That was an overlook on my part.
Assistants = helpers
Assistance = in need of help

I’m in recover mode from a wild weekend, I will report details later in the KB section.

[QUOTE=Mapu Sesoa]It's you're, not YOUR.

Aloha!

Mapu[/QUOTE]
Classic irony...

[QUOTE=AsiaTraveler2]Primal,

Understood. Keep in mind there are other ways of contributing. If you see a new place, but have not tried, bring it up. If you heard something to the grapevine, bring it up. There will be others who can then join the conversation and provide their two cents.

Sometimes all it takes is a conversation starter.

AT2[/QUOTE]Will do. You're absolutely right. But, I'm still waiting for some action, though!

[QUOTE=Uncle Buck][URL="http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/ths/198624292.html"]http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/ths/198624292.html[/URL]
[B][I]
50.00 per hour for in call. 80.00 per hour for outcall to waikiki hotels only.

Japanese style massage by a licenced thereapist.also can do sweedish,Shiatsu,LomiLomi, Sports, and reflexology.

808-258-1250 or 808-735-3501 [/I][/B]

Anyone made an appointment yet??? I've been looking for a Japanese therapist for awhile. I may schedule something if work does not intefere...

Uncle Buck[/QUOTE]

Aloha Uncle Buck,

I read on a different forum that the Japanese girl is in her 30's and strictly legit. But as you know, YMMV.

Also, damn that "work!" It actually is a four letter word. I try to do as little of it as possible.

[QUOTE=Lip Licker]Your post doesn't make any sense KCB, For one, the question the guy asked was where to get a cheap massage with release which is what this entire thread is about so how can you say his question hasn't been answered?!?

What does having "aloha" have to do with posting opinions on a board such as this. Why don't you show some "aloha" to the members by posting useful information on a regular basis. Replying to posts from NooB's whose first posts are questions with valuable insider information is IMHO foolish. Look at his post, he's from out of town, never posted any useful information anywhere on this board and already has irritated several significant members of this board. I don't answer questions posted by NooB's for many reasons, some of which are:

1)They could be LE fishing for information

2)Just from their implied attitude, they are probably bad customers also who will ruin it for the rest of us with our better providers

3)They are unlikely to post any useful information in the future(longtime members should have recognized this trend within their first 6 months of reading the forums)

Being a "longtime member of this board" doesn't mean jack unless you are posting useful information. John Ross and other senior members have been posting a lot of useful information here while I'm sure there are hundreds(probably more) that read and never(or rarely) post. I also haven't seen any "lack of respect" as you have mentioned in the past 2+ years on the Hawaii section of this forum other than NooB's asking questions without giving anything back.

[/QUOTE]I really didn't intend to get into a long drawn out discussion here, but I'll just address a couple of the things Lip Licker said. If you read the 30 posts or so before the question was asked, you won't find hardly any pricing info (there was mention that Jean and another at IM charges $ (is there any tip?) and someone else charged .5 + .3. Also, how far would someone have to go back to find out what IM means? 50 posts? 70 posts? 140 posts? Fact is, there is little info given in the large majority of the posts here. Many of the posts don't even speak to the quality of services or even give a description of the provider.

Why don't I show more aloha by posting more info here? Frankly, I don't like the vibe I get from this board.

BTW, if LE was looking for info, they would probably RTTF, as opposed to asking questions.

Granted, the lack of aloha isn't as prevalent as it once was, but it still obviously exists. I hope you try to undersatnd why I made my comments. It was not to insult or berate anyone here...just trying to contribute a little by raising some awareness. You'll never get a better board by making all newcomers feel unwelcome. Just my two cents.

And if anyone else feels the need for my "assistants", I'll consider sending them over to help (but they don't come cheap).

"Enjoy w/ me. I use my tantric touch. I will pamper
you and make you feel brand new. I am a beautiful
woman: strawberry blonde, hazel, 5' 8", 125, 36D-25-35!

I do deep tissue and Swedish style massage.
Let me tease you and please you.
I have aromatherapy and soothing sounds.

Call me to make an appointment.
8 0 8 2 9 2 0 4 4 0

TREAT YOURSELF TODAY!

Incall 150 (Cash or Credit Cards)
Outcall 200 (Waikiki Hotel only-Credit Cards only)"

Anyone seen her? Let me know. I thought about seeing her tomorrow night.

[QUOTE=TKO 147]"Enjoy w/ me. I use my tantric touch. I will pamper
you and make you feel brand new. I am a beautiful
woman: strawberry blonde, hazel, 5' 8", 125, 36D-25-35!

I do deep tissue and Swedish style massage.
Let me tease you and please you.
I have aromatherapy and soothing sounds.

Call me to make an appointment.
8 0 8 2 9 2 0 4 4 0

TREAT YOURSELF TODAY!

Incall 150 (Cash or Credit Cards)
Outcall 200 (Waikiki Hotel only-Credit Cards only)"

Anyone seen her? Let me know. I thought about seeing her tomorrow night.[/QUOTE]

Oi. She sounds pretty nice. heh. Let us know what happens from your journey...

[QUOTE=TKO 147]"Enjoy w/ me. I use my tantric touch. I will pamper
you and make you feel brand new. I am a beautiful
woman: strawberry blonde, hazel, 5' 8", 125, 36D-25-35!

I do deep tissue and Swedish style massage.
Let me tease you and please you.
I have aromatherapy and soothing sounds.

Call me to make an appointment.
8 0 8 2 9 2 0 4 4 0

TREAT YOURSELF TODAY!

Incall 150 (Cash or Credit Cards)
Outcall 200 (Waikiki Hotel only-Credit Cards only)"

Anyone seen her? Let me know. I thought about seeing her tomorrow night.[/QUOTE]

She posted her photo in her follow up CL ad. Decided against seeing her.

[url]http://www.home.earthlink.net/~oahu-exxxoticentertainers/[/url]

Check out this site. This was posted on CL.

Used the $40 coupon in the Penny Saver and visited Aloha TLC. The whole experience was poor. The provider was older and somewhat reminded me of Roz from Disney's Monsters Inc. Massage started out good and strong but lasted only five minutes. Then began the light touching and the flip where she immediately began massaging Mr. Happy. When that was done she cleaned me up and sent me on my way. I was there only about half an hour. Talk about upset I tipped her only $20. As I left though she did mention that there were 3 other girls that also work there but they would not be in until later. I don't know if I'll ever go back even to see the other girls.

What happened to JJ Spa?

Has anyone tried these places:

Massage by Penny

Oahu BEST MASSAGE "formerly King's Massage"

Crystal Healing Massage

"#1 Massage" Parking and Shower Available

"Yes" Massage Services

Nishta

Which ones are Korean and Non Korean? Legit/Other?

[QUOTE=Bluestonez]What happened to JJ Spa?

Has anyone tried these places:
Massage by Penny
Oahu BEST MASSAGE "formerly King's Massage"
Crystal Healing Massage
"#1 Massage" Parking and Shower Available
"Yes" Massage Services
Nishta

Which ones are Korean and Non Korean? Legit/Other?[/QUOTE]

Bluestonez,

You have been a member for 2+ years. Never posted any info. Posting some info first would be a nice gesture.

Just my 2 cents.

AT2

I started my account 2 years ago and have come back to it since. Sorry to correct you!

Peace

[QUOTE=AsiaTraveler2]Bluestonez,

"You have been a member for 2+ years. Never posted any info. Posting some info first would be a nice gesture.
Just my 2 cents."

Thanks AT2. Maybe if he posted a little, he could raise the quality of his information up to the level of kimcheeboy.

[QUOTE=Bluestonez]

Has anyone tried these places:

***

Crystal Healing Massage

***

Which ones are Korean and Non Korean? Legit/Other? [/QUOTE]Last week I visited Crystal Healing Massage (1507 South King Street, on the ground floor of a building behind the gas station). My masseuse was Korean, but I don't know if all of them are Korean. The usual extra options were available. The only problem was a lack of air conditioning (hopefully only temporary), although at night it wasn't that much of a problem.

[QUOTE=Bluestonez]I started my account 2 years ago and have come back to it since. Sorry to correct you!

Peace[/QUOTE]

Bluestonez,

That means you had two golden opportunities to contribute. When you first joined and when you returned. I think your answer says it all though.

Enough said.

Peace,
AT2

[QUOTE=kapalua]Last week I visited Crystal Healing Massage (1507 South King Street, on the ground floor of a building behind the gas station). My masseuse was Korean, but I don't know if all of them are Korean. The usual extra options were available. The only problem was a lack of air conditioning (hopefully only temporary), although at night it wasn't that much of a problem.[/QUOTE]

Kapalua,

The two girls that I saw there were Korean. I believe they all are, but I can't say for sure. They seem to be 30 to 40'ish, and I did not see any real lookers, so I stopped going.

AT2