[QUOTE=Chunks92;5980180]. . . At the end of the day, you can say whatever you want . . . [/QUOTE]"Talk is cheap. . . Lets go play. ".
(NFL Hall Of Famer. Johnny Unitas. Baltimore Colts).
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[QUOTE=Chunks92;5980180]. . . At the end of the day, you can say whatever you want . . . [/QUOTE]"Talk is cheap. . . Lets go play. ".
(NFL Hall Of Famer. Johnny Unitas. Baltimore Colts).
[QUOTE=JeanJizzes;5980935]Like rain man but instead of math equations buzzing around it's different escort ads and phone numbers.[/QUOTE]This statement has not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.
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[QUOTE=Chunks92;5980924] . . . And yes, ill be voting. L M F A O. C92.[/QUOTE]The place to go for all of your monger information needs. . .
Never a cover or minimum.
Age restrictions strictly enforced.
Accept No substitute.
[QUOTE=JeanJizzes;5980935]Like rain man but instead of math equations buzzing around it's different escort ads and phone numbers.[/QUOTE]Spot on. Couldn't describe myself any better. LOL.
The only solution to the problems this country has is Liberatarianism. One of the reasons this will not come to pass is because it stresses personal responsibility, freedom, and laws based on personal property rights; including considering your own body as your own personal property.
Cheech.
[QUOTE=Chunks92;5980924]Even if that was facts, I'm still alot more talented then these high ranking officials walking into their own colleagues stings. The fact that i know the ads that get them before they get got practically qualifies me to be President in 2028. And yes, ill be voting.
L M F A O.
C92.[/QUOTE]No person as mentally I'll as you is qualified to be president. No schizophrenic has ever been president and you won't be the first.
[QUOTE=Navritol;5980971]Sounds like you may be taking the interlocutor's comments far too seriously than intended.[/QUOTE]Bro. Read on. He continues to repeat that he only votes for who he perceives as the most pro hooker candidate. Think about that. His only criteria for determining if someone will do a good job in office is whether or not the person is pro hooker.
[QUOTE=Cheech1;5981418]The only solution to the problems this country has is Liberatarianism. One of the reasons this will not come to pass is because it stresses personal responsibility, freedom, and laws based on personal property rights; including considering your own body as your own personal property.
Cheech.[/QUOTE]That sounds like socialism actually. Libertarianism is the one where they allow slavery and kid stuff.
[QUOTE=Fuzzyek;5980063]I believe our president is the one who is causing most of the b / s going on. He refuses to take blame for anything. Just one example is he is against fossil fuels, which is a major factor in what's happening with gas prices. Unfortunately we have a real putz for a president.[/QUOTE]Fuzzy,
The whole world is suffering from high oil and gas prices. Unlike Trump, Biden is not the president of the world. A new Chevy Bolt can be had for 25 K. Biden attempted to pass a bill that would have knocked off 12 K from that price. So for 13 K, a working guy could have a new, electric car that would cost about $5 of electricity for 250 miles of travel when plugged in at home or free in other places.
So for your one example, he is trying to liberate you from Middle Eastern oil, Russian oil, and South American oil. I love my gas engine cars too, but no longer want to support murderous regimes. When I need a new car, I will look for an electric car if Ican find one I can afford. The Putz was canceling milage requirements for new cars, thus trying to insure the need for more and more oil.
To be sure Biden has had some serious missteps, but I don't think he will try to cancel millions of legitimate votes to stay in power.
I will not continue on political discussions. I also urge everyone to look up some information on being a Libertarian. It has nothing to do with being a communist as suggested by someone.
[QUOTE=Valdez;5982064]Fuzzy,
The whole world is suffering from high oil and gas prices. Unlike Trump, Biden is not the president of the world. A new Chevy Bolt can be had for 25 K. Biden attempted to pass a bill that would have knocked off 12 K from that price. So for 13 K, a working guy could have a new, electric car that would cost about $5 of electricity for 250 miles of travel when plugged in at home or free in other places.
So for your one example, he is trying to liberate you from Middle Eastern oil, Russian oil, and South American oil. I love my gas engine cars too, but no longer want to support murderous regimes. When I need a new car, I will look for an electric car if Ican find one I can afford. The Putz was canceling milage requirements for new cars, thus trying to insure the need for more and more oil.
To be sure Biden has had some serious missteps, but I don't think he will try to cancel millions of legitimate votes to stay in power.
I will not continue on political discussions. I also urge everyone to look up some information on being a Libertarian. It has nothing to do with being a communist as suggested by someone.[/QUOTE]I love the losers who talk about how libertarianism will solve everything. Based on what? What country has implemented such an anarchist system that we can use as an example?
[QUOTE=Cheech1;5981418]The only solution to the problems this country has is Liberatarianism. One of the reasons this will not come to pass is because it stresses personal responsibility, freedom, and laws based on personal property rights; including considering your own body as your own personal property..[/QUOTE]I love the losers who talk about how libertarianism will solve everything. Based on what? What country has implemented such an anarchist system that we can use as an example?
[QUOTE=Cumshot19;5981476]Bro. Read on. He continues to repeat that he only votes for who he perceives as the most pro hooker candidate. Think about that. His only criteria for determining if someone will do a good job in office is whether or not the person is pro hooker.[/QUOTE]I know.
The views expressed are humorous to a point.
But the humor evaporates when the views reveal a reactive origin with unresolved relationships / marriages.
My point was that name-calling doesn't help.
Be well. Carry on.
P.S. - Joseph Hooker was a Union general in the American Civil War.
He is chiefly remembered for his decisive defeat by Confederate General Robert E. Lee at the Battle of Chancellorsville in 1863.
The legend is the men under Hooker's command were a particularly wild bunch who would spend much time in brothels when on leave.
Thus prostitutes came to be known as hookers.
P. P.S. - There was a wide receiver who played for the Cleveland Browns (1969-1974).
His name was Fair Hooker.
[QUOTE=Cumshot19;5982242]I love the losers who talk about how libertarianism will solve everything. Based on what? What country has implemented such an anarchist system that we can use as an example?[/QUOTE]There are valid criticisms of libertarian political philosophy.
Nice theory, but it'll never fly, as a practical matter.
I view libertarianism as a path toward vandalism.
An open political discussion on de-criminalizing, if not legalizing sex work in this country is long overdue.
However, the legislative agenda has been locked into other issues, and sex work will likely never see the light of day.
It's also a nonstarter for powerfully influential groups like the Evangelical Right, among others.
Does not allow slavery. It considers pretty much everything based upon personal property rights. Including your own body. Slavery is the complete negation of your right to your own body, the complete opposite of liberty. As far as kid stuff goes, my politically incorrect view is that a person should be able to engage in sex when that person has become mature enough to do so. That decision can be tricky, and currently in Ohio the age of consent is 16. The fact of the matter is, in my opinion, that fixed age qualifications are for the convenience of the government, not the people. There are people who are capable of making the educated decision to engage in sexual activity at younger ages, like I was, and people who shouldn't until later ages. The same thing applies to other things like drinking alcohol, using drugs, or driving a car. I believe we all know people who were capable of driving, for example, when they were 14, and we all know people who should never be behind the wheel.
Cheech.
In your misguided thought process, who do you think is going to make up that 12 k that Biden wanted to knock off of the car price. What happens when rolling blackouts occur?. We can't keep our electric grid working now, add more?. SMH. And do you have any idea the environmental impact of all these batteries, both to manufacture and dispose of?. Do some research.
[QUOTE=Valdez;5982064]Fuzzy,
The whole world is suffering from high oil and gas prices. Unlike Trump, Biden is not the president of the world. A new Chevy Bolt can be had for 25 K. Biden attempted to pass a bill that would have knocked off 12 K from that price. So for 13 K, a working guy could have a new, electric car that would cost about $5 of electricity for 250 miles of travel when plugged in at home or free in other places.
So for your one example, he is trying to liberate you from Middle Eastern oil, Russian oil, and South American oil. I love my gas engine cars too, but no longer want to support murderous regimes. When I need a new car, I will look for an electric car if Ican find one I can afford. The Putz was canceling milage requirements for new cars, thus trying to insure the need for more and more oil.
To be sure Biden has had some serious missteps, but I don't think he will try to cancel millions of legitimate votes to stay in power.
I will not continue on political discussions. I also urge everyone to look up some information on being a Libertarian. It has nothing to do with being a communist as suggested by someone.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BudBowl2001;5983418]In your misguided thought process, who do you think is going to make up that 12 k that Biden wanted to knock off of the car price. What happens when rolling blackouts occur?. We can't keep our electric grid working now, add more?. SMH. And do you have any idea the environmental impact of all these batteries, both to manufacture and dispose of?. Do some research.[/QUOTE]Look at California, firing up coal power plants bc they're de-commissioning nuclear and solar / wind cannot handle the power needed to run ppls air conditioners etc. The technology of wind and solar is great but to force it on people and make it your sole source of power is not the way to go. Even solar panels on homes is a "feel good about myself" investment and has no monetary benefits, at least for someone like me. I get a 120-160 a month electric bill and panels to run my home are upwards of 25 k. even at the most expensive electric bill I've received it would take my 13 years to get my moneys worth, assuming I get 0 dollars back from the electric company using my panels for their grid.
Keep developing this technology yes but it's not practical and for electric cars that's great for people who want them but I'm not driving a 15 k Chevy Bolt. I would consider a model why or something like that but at the price of the vehicle and totally eliminating a monthly gas expense it is still cheaper to drive the car I have (jaguar F-Pace) considering monthly lease payment and gas expense per month.
[QUOTE=Cumshot19;5982243]I love the losers who talk about how libertarianism will solve everything. Based on what? What country has implemented such an anarchist system that we can use as an example?[/QUOTE]Anarchism is different than libertarianism. They are like opposites in many ways. It's more akin to socialism. There have been plenty of examples of both working well.
[QUOTE=CleveLoser;5984533]Anarchism is different than libertarianism. They are like opposites in many ways. It's more akin to socialism. There have been plenty of examples of both working well.[/QUOTE]Plenty?
Care to cite one or two?
[QUOTE=CleveLoser;5984533]Anarchism is different than libertarianism. They are like opposites in many ways. It's more akin to socialism. There have been plenty of examples of both working well.[/QUOTE]And on this day, when asked to provide and example, not a single example was seen.
[QUOTE=Cumshot19;5985213]And on this day, when asked to provide and example, not a single example was seen.[/QUOTE]Cuba and Rojava for sure.
USSR went from a poor backward serfdom to beating the Nazis and going to space. China made massive improvements too. Vietnam ofc has a far better standard of living than it did under the French.
If socialism didn't work, USA wouldn't have murdered millions over the years to stop it.
[QUOTE=CleveLoser;5985597]Cuba and Rojava for sure.
USSR went from a poor backward serfdom to beating the Nazis and going to space. China made massive improvements too. Vietnam ofc has a far better standard of living than it did under the French.
If socialism didn't work, USA wouldn't have murdered millions over the years to stop it.[/QUOTE]I asked for examples of libertarianism, dummy. I know all about communism. I'm a high ranking member of the US communist party.
[QUOTE=CleveLoser;5985597]Cuba and Rojava for sure.
USSR went from a poor backward serfdom to beating the Nazis and going to space. China made massive improvements too. Vietnam ofc has a far better standard of living than it did under the French.
If socialism didn't work, USA wouldn't have murdered millions over the years to stop it.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lxD-gikpMs[/URL]
[QUOTE=JasonDono;5999025]Why do you guys care, bruh? It's always crazy to me how something that doesn't affect you guys one iota is such a big deal to you at the same time.[/QUOTE]I don't care, in fact I've enjoyed BBFS a few times. Although It now becomes a PIA... And will be an even bigger one in months ahead... To have an abortion performed if God forbid a pregnancy is the result of bb. Its only a matter of time before Ohio cracks down on it.
[QUOTE=Bernie76;6000060]I don't care, in fact I've enjoyed BBFS a few times. Although It now becomes a PIA... And will be an even bigger one in months ahead... To have an abortion performed if God forbid a pregnancy is the result of bb. Its only a matter of time before Ohio cracks down on it.[/QUOTE]If the loony Bible Brigade that controls the OH Republican Party has their way most, if not all, forms of birth control will be outlawed. Might be wise to stock up or take more permanent steps. I'm in my 40's and have no desire to have kids at this point so I'm seriously considering getting snipped.
[QUOTE=TomMubbles;6000196]If the loony Bible Brigade that controls the OH Republican Party has their way most, if not all, forms of birth control will be outlawed. Might be wise to stock up or take more permanent steps. I'm in my 40's and have no desire to have kids at this point so I'm seriously considering getting snipped.[/QUOTE]I'm pretty sure outlawing burth control is next on the Supreme Court list of things to make illegal. We are in the same age bracket and nor do I have any desire to have kids either. What you mentioned is the point I was trying to make when I brought this subject up. It now becomes even more worrisome to even consider doing BBFS. Which occasionally I take a chance and enjoy.
[QUOTE=Bernie76;6000270]I'm pretty sure outlawing burth control is next on the Supreme Court list of things to make illegal. We are in the same age bracket and nor do I have any desire to have kids either. What you mentioned is the point I was trying to make when I brought this subject up. It now becomes even more worrisome to even consider doing BBFS. Which occasionally I take a chance and enjoy.[/QUOTE]I agree 100% and I'd occasionally partake with certain girls I'd see regularly. Not taking anymore chances. Not to sound like an alarmist but we may even end up with one of those bounty laws and end up with these Incel proud boy types nosing into your sex life and trying to haul you and the girl into civil court over even a rumored pregnancy and misscariage. World is a crazy place right now.
[QUOTE=TomMubbles;6000966]I agree 100% and I'd occasionally partake with certain girls I'd see regularly. Not taking anymore chances. Not to sound like an alarmist but we may even end up with one of those bounty laws and end up with these Incel proud boy types nosing into your sex life and trying to haul you and the girl into civil court over even a rumored pregnancy and misscariage. World is a crazy place right now.[/QUOTE]I'm not a lawyer or anything remotely close, but as I understand it, the supreme courts ruling on Roe vs Wade doesn't necessarily out law abortion, but rather leaves it up to each state to decide. Also I'm not quite sure where you have the idea that the GOP or looney bible people think that birth control is the next thing that will be illegal. What is happening today is people don't want to accept responsibility for their action, but want the government to basically tell them how to live. Its never their fault and someone else will fix and take care of the problem I too enjoy BB and have had a vasectomy so pregnancy is not a concern of mine. Lastly, I do find it humorous when providers say they don't do it for safety reasons, yet how many of them smoke and or do drugs, which will give you health problems guaranteed. Ok enough of my musings.
[QUOTE=HelixTiRider;6003248]I'm not a lawyer or anything remotely close, but as I understand it, the supreme courts ruling on Roe vs Wade doesn't necessarily out law abortion, but rather leaves it up to each state to decide. Also I'm not quite sure where you have the idea that the GOP or looney bible people think that birth control is the next thing that will be illegal. What is happening today is people don't want to accept responsibility for their action, but want the government to basically tell them how to live. Its never their fault and someone else will fix and take care of the problem I too enjoy BB and have had a vasectomy so pregnancy is not a concern of mine. Lastly, I do find it humorous when providers say they don't do it for safety reasons, yet how many of them smoke and or do drugs, which will give you health problems guaranteed. Ok enough of my musings.[/QUOTE]Roe being overturned and the case regarding Miranda rights are both huge setbacks for individual rights / freedoms and basically tells states that "hey, if something wasn't literally mentioned in the constitution then our position is that the right doesn't exist". That opens the door for all sorts of regressive legislation on things like marriage equality, school funding, criminal due process etc.
Numerous Republicans in multiple states, including Ohio's own Jean Schmidt (the Crypt Keeper) have come out and said that going after access to BC is on their agenda next. Other states, like TX have said that they are planning on going to challenge gay marriage and / or start enforcing old laws criminalizing gay sex. Sure doesn't sound like the party of no government interference to me. Mind your own fucking business and I will mind mine is my motto. Trumpublicans want Trump and their pastor to not only tell them how to live but also mandate that EVERYONE follow those same rules. What's most comical is that Trump and those that put him in power are anything but a typical conservative nor are they Christian for the most part. It's all grift and they are robbing everyone blind, or at least everyone that doesn't have a 8 figure plus net worth.
Unfortunately for the country I think that we are going to elect DeSantis in 24 and he actually believes in this culture war crap and you are going to see a gigantic Taliban-esque crackdown on any sort of "sinful" behavior that upsets evangelical Christians. Not good news for folks like you and me that like to partake in activities discussed on this board. Not sure how wanting to be able to access BC, not being forced to be an evangelical Christian or not seeing my gay and lesbian relatives and friends harassed and possibly arrested is "wanting the government to tell me how to live".
[QUOTE=TomMubbles;6003707]Trumpublicans want Trump and their pastor to not only tell them how to live but also mandate that EVERYONE follow those same rules. What's most comical is that Trump and those that put him in power are anything but a typical conservative nor are they Christian for the most part. It's all grift and they are robbing everyone blind, or at least everyone that doesn't have a 8 figure plus net worth.
Unfortunately for the country I think that we are going to elect DeSantis in 24 and he actually believes in this culture war crap and you are going to see a gigantic Taliban-esque crackdown on any sort of "sinful" behavior that upsets evangelical Christians. Not good news for folks like you and me that like to partake in activities discussed on this board. Not sure how wanting to be able to access BC, not being forced to be an evangelical Christian or not seeing my gay and lesbian relatives and friends harassed and possibly arrested is "wanting the government to tell me how to live".[/QUOTE]I couldn't care less about abortions and the thing that drives me crazy is that all these people with the "my body, my choice" had no problem with me to keep my job and health insurance (at my age it's important) I had to take an experimental flu shot, quickly created by big pharma that in the past put profits before safety and it doesn't even work.
It's funny, some people are worried about "Christians" telling them what to do with their bodies and others worried about globohomo telling them what to have injected into their bloodstream. For me only one has come true.
[QUOTE=TomMubbles;6003707]Roe being overturned and the case regarding Miranda rights are both huge setbacks for individual rights / freedoms and basically tells states that "hey, if something wasn't literally mentioned in the constitution then our position is that the right doesn't exist" . . .
. . . Trumpublicans want Trump and their pastor to not only tell them how to live but also mandate that EVERYONE follow those same rules. What's most comical is that Trump and those that put him in power are anything but a typical conservative nor are they Christian for the most part. It's all grift and they are robbing everyone blind, or at least everyone that doesn't have a 8 figure plus net worth.
Unfortunately for the country I think that we are going to elect DeSantis in 24 and he actually believes in this culture war crap and you are going to see a gigantic Taliban-esque crackdown on any sort of "sinful" behavior that upsets evangelical Christians. Not good news for folks like you and me that like to partake in activities discussed on this board. Not sure how wanting to be able to access BC, not being forced to be an evangelical Christian or not seeing my gay and lesbian relatives and friends harassed and possibly arrested is "wanting the government to tell me how to live".[/QUOTE]We're a long way from DeSantis getting elected.
DeSantis has a strong following in Florida, but whether he can persuade voters in other states remains to be seen.
There will be a strong backlash to Dobbs and the proposed follow ups.
Not all old school traditional conservatives are on board with the result.
The overwhelming numbers of Democrats who took down Trump will be back.
They know what side of their bread gets the butter.
And they understand that much of the current situation is beyond Biden's control.
[QUOTE=CleveLoser;5985597]Cuba and Rojava for sure.
USSR went from a poor backward serfdom to beating the Nazis and going to space. China made massive improvements too. Vietnam now has a far better standard of living than it did under the French.
If socialism didn't work, USA wouldn't have murdered millions over the years to stop it.[/QUOTE]If you haven't noticed, Americans are killing Americans now.
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States[/URL]
[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/06/02/mass-shootings-in-2022/[/URL]
[QUOTE=JustAverageJoe;6038092]Try269 got a little ass burn because I asked him what tree he fell out of. At 140 tip I guess he just doesn't get it and even for his 140 he didn't get it. Try reading through the forums and get a little more knowledge to the hobby maybe you won't be paying out the ass for services not rendered your driving the prices up for other monger's who don't want to pay outrageous tips for newbie mistakes in the hobby. But don't blow my inbox up with your stupid messages if you can't take constructive criticism don't post your rookie mistakes.[/QUOTE]
Providing "constructive criticism" is not compatible with "burning his ass".
If you're concerned that his tip is going to drive up your price, then you're not qualified to provide newbies with guidance or direction.
You may also wish to consider getting out of the hobby altogether if you can't afford it.
[QUOTE=SuStar;6038507]Providing "constructive criticism" is not compatible with "burning his ass".
If you're concerned that his tip is going to drive up your price, then you're not qualified to provide newbies with guidance or direction.
You may also wish to consider getting out of the hobby altogether if you can't afford it.[/QUOTE]I can afford my end of the hobby and I can't justify 140 tip in an AMP for 1/2 hr for nothing if you can justify it that's good for you but I'm going to guess that most of the mongers here can't justify it. I'm not here to provide newbies information, like with any forums there's a search button and just plan reading.
[QUOTE=SuStar;6038507]Providing "constructive criticism" is not compatible with "burning his ass".
If you're concerned that his tip is going to drive up your price, then you're not qualified to provide newbies with guidance or direction.
You may also wish to consider getting out of the hobby altogether if you can't afford it.[/QUOTE]Thank you for saying this! If you have the means to tip well, then go for it. The provider will give you good service and priority going forward. If you can't afford it. Oh well not my problem. Get out of the hobby or get a better job!
[QUOTE=JustAverageJoe;6038725]I can afford my end of the hobby and I can't justify 140 tip in an AMP for 1/2 hr for nothing if you can justify it that's good for you but I'm going to guess that most of the mongers here can't justify it[/QUOTE]I am happy that you have adequate disposable dollars for your participation in the hobby.
Your statement that the other fellow's tip will drive up the prices you pay suggests otherwise.
The "newbie" member of this forum is entitled to make his own judgment about tipping.
He was there, he got what he got, and he tipped as he saw fit.
That's his prerogative.
I wasn't there, standing in his socks, so my comment on the amount of his tip would be presumptuous if not irrelevant.
[QUOTE=JustAverageJoe;6038725]I'm not here to provide newbies information, like with any forums there's a search button and just plan reading.[/QUOTE]The subject "newbie" didn't fall out of a tree because you judged his tip as excessive.
If you're not willing to help the newbie, the it behooves you to refrain from "burning his ass" under the guise of providing "constructive criticism".
[QUOTE=Cobraa99;6038795]Thank you for saying this! If you have the means to tip well, then go for it. The provider will give you good service and priority going forward. If you can't afford it. Oh well not my problem. Get out of the hobby or get a better job![/QUOTE]
The angst by some here, at tipping a larger sum than is customary, is overstated.
A lot of "excessive" tipping would be required to move the customary amount upward.
A single instance, or two, or three will not do it.
[QUOTE=SuStar;6040684]The angst by some here, at tipping a larger sum than is customary, is overstated.
A lot of "excessive" tipping would really be required to move the customary amount upward.
Ev
A single instance, or two, or three will not do it.[/QUOTE]I never tip! Only take the set amount with me and nothing else I won't leave my wallet in my car ect, the actual possibility that they remember this down they is slim, aside from a few providers most are not worth a tip and the ones that are I feel repeated business is their reward. Plus prices are high now just my two cents.
[QUOTE=OneAndDone;6040815]I never tip! Only take the set amount with me and nothing else . . . aside from a few providers most are not worth a tip and the ones that are I feel repeated business is their reward. Plus prices are high now just my two cents.[/QUOTE]Good for you!
So just taking a poll, and it sucks when this happens, what's the highest you've ever dropped on rubbers when in a jam and on your way to an appointment? Me personally I'm a magnum thin fan, can score them for $3.94 after tax. Was in a rush to an appointment and was out of rubbers a few months back though and had to settle for my second choice if magnum thins arent available, regular magnums at a truck stop and they were $6.88 for a three-pack after tax! Unreal but hey had to buy them. Anyone else been in a position like this and overpaid for rubbers? Whats the highest you've paid?
C92.
[QUOTE=Chunks92;6049219]So just taking a poll, and it sucks when this happens, what's the highest you've ever dropped on rubbers when in a jam and on your way to an appointment? Me personally I'm a magnum thin fan, can score them for $3.94 after tax. Was in a rush to an appointment and was out of rubbers a few months back though and had to settle for my second choice if magnum thins arent available, regular magnums at a truck stop and they were $6.88 for a three-pack after tax! Unreal but hey had to buy them. Anyone else been in a position like this and overpaid for rubbers? Whats the highest you've paid?
C92.[/QUOTE]I get 4 or 5 uses out of a good rubber, just rinse it out good, and they hold up.