"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=MattMakers;3257766]I don't feel comfortable talking about the FC or contribution before the first MnG. Some girls ask about about the contribution right when they get my number. One of the best looking spinners with hug naturals went ballistic when I said let's talk at the MnG. She said she hates guys like me. She's to busy to waiste her time. Etc. It seems about 50/50. I've read many stories of awesome times with girls who never asked.

Thought?[/QUOTE]You are who you are. Never apologize for that. You should read the highlights thread or the many posts by JZLizard. He basically says that he wouldn't consider having such a conversation w / someone he hasn't ever met. If you want to fuck an escort, a girl who wants to negotiate time / money / acts up front is the way to find her. I try to take his approach. He's one of the more successful SDs here in my opinion, but he has game some of us can never aspire to. He won't even commit to a specific $ amount going into the FC. He just gifts what he thinks is right, and the girls seem to be happy. Obviously, he has a way to filter out earlier in the process those who wouldn't be. However, my impression is that he is gifting in amounts that are comparable to what others of us are negotiating. Don't know that his method works for all, or even any, of us, but it shows what's possible. And, JL, feel free to correct anything I've said if I misunderstood.

I don't think that's a problem. LOL.

I have the same target demographic. Plenty of very sweet, freaky beauties to choose from.

[QUOTE=MattMakers;3257744]Good to know. My problem is I like black / mixed spinners. I have learned that if in doubt, it's a tranny. But there are fabulous ladies on there.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MattMakers;3257766]I don't feel comfortable talking about the FC or contribution before the first MnG. Some girls ask about about the contribution right when they get my number. [b]One of the best looking spinners with hug naturals went ballistic when I said let's talk at the MnG. [/b]She said she hates guys like me. She's to busy to waiste her time. Etc. It seems about 50/50. I've read many stories of awesome times with girls who never asked.

Thought?[/QUOTE]You know, if it were me I would be thanking my lucky stars that the girl went ballistic while one was still in the texting phase! If the girl has the potential to "freak out" I'd rather it happen at that stage than when I am in her presence. What happens when one says the wrong thing at the M&G? She gunna make a scene? What about if you make a wrong move or say the wrong thing in the middle of play? Does she get upset, ruin the mood and get up and leave?

Look what makes a good encounter is different for everyone. Looks like what does it for you is a "best looking spinner. " Hey that's cool. Some guys will tell you the hotter a girl is, or thinks she is, the more sugar she is going to want- or the beauty queens tend to have GPS. I dunno, maybe that is a generalization?

I learned a long time ago that a great connection, chemistry, skills, openness and attitude make for a good sexual experience- much more so than looks, shape or size. So for me I look for those that are laid-back, fun, open-minded, flirty, enticing and have some idea how to play- something beyond a standard porno. Because 90% of the girls on SA are orders of magnitude better looking than what I is available in my age range, I'm not too worried about a few physical traits that do not match an "ideal. " But then again, that is just me.

Every time I have seen a buddy get in trouble or used / abused by a girl is when he gets caught thinking with the little head. Since the ratio of women to men on SA is usually 4 women for every guy no need to mess with those with a bad attitude or try to "mold" a girl to one's needs. There are elements of privacy & safety involved in trusting one's "Spidey Senses" and over ruling the little head. But that is another thread. Always trust your gut and NEVER, EVER be unwilling to walk away!

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3258371] .....

Look what makes a good encounter is different for everyone. Looks like what does it for you is a "best looking spinner. " Hey that's cool. Some guys will tell you the hotter a girl is, or thinks she is, the more sugar she is going to want- or the beauty queens tend to have GPS. I dunno, maybe that is a generalization?

I learned a long time ago that a great connection, chemistry, skills, openness and attitude make for a good sexual experience- much more so than looks, shape or size. So for me I look for those that are laid-back, fun, open-minded, flirty, enticing and have some idea how to play- something beyond a standard porno. Because 90% of the girls on SA are orders of magnitude better looking than what I is available in my age range, I'm not too worried about a few physical traits that do not match an "ideal. " But then again, that is just me
......
[/QUOTE]I agree with you. I guess I felt like a kid in the candy shop. I thought I could have my cake and eat it too. The bowl is not a sprint. It's a marathon. If you go after the hottest, you pay the most or you are dealing with scammers. You are mostly dealing with scammers. That is my current outlook. Cast a wide net and always be willing to let anyone fall out who should. Go after 7 and 8's to begin with and enjoy a woman's "affection".

[QUOTE=MattMakers;3257766]I don't feel comfortable talking about the FC or contribution before the first MnG. Some girls ask about about the contribution right when they get my number. One of the best looking spinners with hug naturals went ballistic when I said let's talk at the MnG. She said she hates guys like me. She's to busy to waiste her time. Etc. It seems about 50/50. I've read many stories of awesome times with girls who never asked.

Thought?[/QUOTE]The worst experiences I've had in the bowl were from the girls who wanted to start talking allowance before even meeting in person or those trying to renegotiate the amount before going to the FC. Now, all women on SA are motivated by money, but if it is 100% all about the money, the sex is typically bad (dead fish lays, trying to leave after one pop, etc) in my experience. I also noticed alot of girls who tried to lock in prices after only messaging or texting, were not as good looking at the meet and greet. I tell SB's that I cannot set an allowance based on a couple pictures and some messages. They have to do a meet and greet before we talk numbers.

The best sex I've gotten was from girls who wanted an allowance, but never specified an amount. They would leave it to me to decide how much. I'd usually toss 100 or 200 in their purse at the end of the night, and they would be texting me to meet again. For these girls, satisfying sex, a great connection, and new experiences were desired just as much as monetary gains.

SDX.

OK, maybe I am off base and my experiences aren't typical, but girls who don't ask for sugar or want to know the rate before completing FC activities are about as rare as hen's teeth.

I suspect there are any number of reports on this and other threads about SBs like that. I haven't found many.

I do know that there is a tendency to post one's "best" encounters on threads, and avoid posting bad experiences, as it fulfills any number of psychological factors. Oh and not to mention that most embellish their resumes, so wonder what happens here on an unregulated message board about wh*re mongering?

IMHO girls like that are not typical, finding one is like finding the Holy Grail. Enjoy it when one does, just don't expect it as the norm.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3258149]You are who you are. Never apologize for that. You should read the highlights thread or the many posts by JZLizard. He basically says that he wouldn't consider having such a conversation w / someone he hasn't ever met. If you want to fuck an escort, a girl who wants to negotiate time / money / acts up front is the way to find her. I try to take his approach. He's one of the more successful SDs here in my opinion, but he has game some of us can never aspire to. He won't even commit to a specific $ amount going into the FC. He just gifts what he thinks is right, and the girls seem to be happy. Obviously, he has a way to filter out earlier in the process those who wouldn't be. However, my impression is that he is gifting in amounts that are comparable to what others of us are negotiating. Don't know that his method works for all, or even any, of us, but it shows what's possible. And, JL, feel free to correct anything I've said if I misunderstood.[/QUOTE]FFA. This seems pretty accurate, except I should qualify it a bit by pointing out there is really not a special technique involved in filtering, it's surprisingly simple and maybe takes practice, but I think anyone can do it. I do my best to identify the girls who would be a pain in the ass, or otherwise incompatible with my methods, as early as possible, then ignore those girls and move on to the next. Without that simple step, my own methods wouldn't work for me. I suppose it requires a certain amount of self-discipline in order to get past that fleeting idea of "but, man, I sure would like to fuck this one", be motivated look past her once I've identified it as a no-go, and to look toward all the hot pieces of ass that I haven't even encountered yet.

I must also confess, I've had a few that literally took up a couple of hours of my time before I was able to disqualify them for a meet. By that I mean, maybe they alluded to talking money initially, but I successfully diverted their attention and / or thought I had already won the battle via charm, only to have them summon their inner GPS at the last minute. Unfortunately it happens sometimes. Those kind of experiences aren't complete wastes of time though, they are what make us better at vetting the candidates and help us sharpen our game. In all things in life, the goal is not total failure avoidance (failure is a necessary part of any game), the goal is to learn something from those failures and improve.

There are a number of reasons I never talk allowance up front. First, I don't like to feel like a customer paying for a service. This is why I'm not interested in escorts, BP girls etc. I'd rather choose from a smaller pool of girls that are fucking me because they want to, than from a larger pool of girls that will fuck anyone for the right price. Certainly the smaller pool can be limiting, but I'm not in it for quantity as much as the quality of overall experience. I get the best experience when I turn it into a date night. The gift to the girl is often not much money (as you said, about what others are paying or less), but my total expenditure is almost certainly more than others because it often involves dinner or some form of date night. That may or may not be for everyone, but there is definitely a certain category of girls who appreciate the "dating experience". I think these are better "quality" girls, in the big scheme of things, because they are looking at their SD as someone they might potentially want to spend a lot of time with.

To the OP as far as girls saying "she hates guys like you", to be honest I don't usually encounter girls that are that direct and rude to me, so if she really said it directly like that, there are two possibilities. One of course is that she is nonredeemable human garbage. But more likely something in the conversation that led up to that point is why she took on such a bitchy attitude. For me, part of running game is finding that sweet spot of tactful conversation that never allows these girls, regardless of how nutty they are, to get too out of control. In other words if I'm a tactless and blunt prick, believe me it's going to bring out the bitchiness in some of these nutcases very quickly. However if I have a way of asserting my dominance with tact and skill, she's more likely to respect it, shut up, and her mind will be geared more toward what can she do to please me rather than the other way around. I'm sure some of the girls I run across are complete psychos too, but honestly I'm disengaged from the conversation long before it gets to that point. I almost never end a conversation on a rude or sour note with these girls.

I appreciate everyone who has contributed to this invaluable thread and I have learned much. But apparently, not as much as I should have.

One of the things that we as a group should do is to warn each other of bad experiences that we may have had to prevent others from experiencing the same.

My sad story is that I got ripped off by Melissaroman 222 in the Richmond board.

In my stupidity, I gave her an advance and of course, she ghosted.

So a warning to those wiser than me about this one.

[QUOTE=HighlandPark;3258569]I appreciate everyone who has contributed to this invaluable thread and I have learned much. But apparently, not as much as I should have.

One of the things that we as a group should do is to warn each other of bad experiences that we may have had to prevent others from experiencing the same.

My sad story is that I got ripped off by Melissaroman 222 in the Richmond board.

In my stupidity, I gave her an advance and of course, she ghosted.

So a warning to those wiser than me about this one.[/QUOTE]Sorry about your bad experience! It stinks when a girl rips you off! I hate it when it happens. Not only is there the loss, but the pent up expectations that go unresolved. Stinks! But I think your experience is a good example for others so kudos for posting it! Most would not have had the guts to do that! Your experience shows why mongering isn't as easy as it looks and doing some "book learning" is worthwhile vs The School of Hard Knocks. Good that you have been working on it!

Sorry again about the bad experience! Hope your future hunting is all successful.

[QUOTE=HighlandPark;3258569]I appreciate everyone who has contributed to this invaluable thread and I have learned much. But apparently, not as much as I should have.

One of the things that we as a group should do is to warn each other of bad experiences that we may have had to prevent others from experiencing the same.

My sad story is that I got ripped off by Melissaroman 222 in the Richmond board.

In my stupidity, I gave her an advance and of course, she ghosted.

So a warning to those wiser than me about this one.[/QUOTE]Agreed rip offs should be called out but I have a few questions. You said she was on Richmond board, so is she an escort? If she has a profile on SA why not post her profile link? If she is an escort why are you consideri g her a sb?

I have been quite lucky in finding them myself somehow.

Had 2 in Tennessee while I lived in Virginia.

First was a college girl who after meet and greet she invited me up to stay over because she didn't want me driving home so late. Needless to say we had fun until about 5 am and we napped. We both woke up late and I completely forgot to leave her something. I sent her a text an apologized and she said if she wanted something she would ask. Next date we went out to eat and as we were heading back to her place she asked if I would buy her a pack of cigarettes. She only smoked maybe 1 or 2 a day. Anyways, we stopped off at Kroger and I told her her fridge was bare and we should fill it up. She heavily insisted on me not doing it but we got her a few things. I think in the end after about 5 months of dating the only true thing she ever asked for was to have me help get her dog to the vet and pay the bill. Other than that it was dinner, movies, drinks and little things here and there.

Second was a late 20's as that happened to message me while I was in JC. She just flat out said we should get a hotel and get freaky. I just happened to be in a hotel and said to myself "what are the odds?" I did a little vetting and after going back and forth told her I would get a hotel (which I already had) and invited her over. We had a few drinks l, watched some TV and before I knew it she jumped my bones. Had an all nighter and I slipped her some money into her purse and she was extremely happy and wanted to know when we could see each other again. We ended up forming a great realtionship and I was really sad to move back to Illinois. She was a freak in bed and had a lot of kinks. She full filled all of mine and was actually setting up a 3 way for us before I had to move. The 3 way was actual her idea.

Finally, had a meeting and greet the other night. This girl is gorgeous in the face but a bit on the heavy side with giant boobs. Not hang down to her stomach either. She is 21 and a bit alternative style with a couple of face piercings and bright neon blue hair. She seems to have some issues with her confidence as she texted me two hours before the meet wanting to insure I was coming. She then went on to say she has been ditched by a few guys in the past. Anywho, we go out to eat and the moment we walk in the door she just demands attention. So much so I was like "what the fuck is going on? Next thing I know servers are coming over to the table and asking about her piercings and her hair to the point I was thinking she has brought me to a dog and pony show to hype herself up to me so I put my guard up a bit. After dinner we drove around and just talked for about an hour. I took her back to her car and we started talking about the next time to see each other. We made arrangements (no money talk) and I gave her a kiss good night that led into a crazy make out and heavy petting session. We finally stopped because she didn't want me to think she was a **** by going all the way on our first date. I let it be because I just have the feeling I found another goldmine here. She texted me all through tonight and all day today about how happy she is and can't wait to see me. She could be playing and I am paying attention but as of right now she is on the up and up. I told her from the get go it would be monthly but I am planning on changing her to weekly after I see where the next date goes.

But yeah, they are definitely out there and they tend to be the ones that have had rough lives, shit relationships and and they just really want someone to wine and dine them, give them attention and buy them flowers, coffee, etc. They aren't in the 8-10 range but we all know if there is a 10 out there a longer with more money than me has already lined her wallet better than I could do. Anytime I get with a 10 SB it's like a treat I do for myself 2 or 3 times a year. It's take some time and a lot of vetting but if you can get them into a Convo and charm them there at some point they get hard up for something and come calling.

Last year I vetted some Asian gals (usually queens of the GPS) but this year I am trying to find me a10 in the Latin / hispanic field.

If anyone else knows any in Louisville, Evansville, st Louis areas and in between feel free to shoot me a pm.

Stay safe out there fellas and good luck.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3258512]OK, maybe I am off base and my experiences aren't typical, but girls who don't ask for sugar or want to know the rate before completing FC activities are about as rare as hen's teeth.

I suspect there are any number of reports on this and other threads about SBs like that. I haven't found many.

I do know that there is a tendency to post one's "best" encounters on threads, and avoid posting bad experiences, as it fulfills any number of psychological factors. Oh and not to mention that most embellish their resumes, so wonder what happens here on an unregulated message board about wh*re mongering?

IMHO girls like that are not typical, finding one is like finding the Holy Grail. Enjoy it when one does, just don't expect it as the norm.[/QUOTE]

I'm much the same. If I don't get a positive reaction to my profile description, my private pics or my messages, I just move on. I let them know why I'm on the site and if they are not looking for the same, I move on. If all they want to discuss is their allowance, I move on. Plenty to choose from.

If I had a boring profile, looked like a troll and had no charm in my messages, the story might be different. I don't mind narrowing down the field as long as I find a good match.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3258518]FFA. This seems pretty accurate, except I should qualify it a bit by pointing out there is really not a special technique involved in filtering, it's surprisingly simple and maybe takes practice, but I think anyone can do it. I do my best to identify the girls who would be a pain in the ass, or otherwise incompatible with my methods, as early as possible, then ignore those girls and move on to the next. Without that simple step, my own methods wouldn't work for me. I suppose it requires a certain amount of self-discipline in order to get past that fleeting idea of "but, man, I sure would like to fuck this one", be motivated look past her once I've identified it as a no-go, and to look toward all the hot pieces of ass that I haven't even encountered yet.

I must also confess, I've had a few that literally took up a couple of hours of my time before I was able to disqualify them for a meet. By that I mean, maybe they alluded to talking money initially, but I successfully diverted their attention and / or thought I had already won the battle via charm, only to have them summon their inner GPS at the last minute. Unfortunately it happens sometimes. Those kind of experiences aren't complete wastes of time though, they are what make us better at vetting the candidates and help us sharpen our game. In all things in life, the goal is not total failure avoidance (failure is a necessary part of any game), the goal is to learn something from those failures and improve.

There are a number of reasons I never talk allowance up front. First, I don't like to feel like a customer paying for a service. This is why I'm not interested in escorts, BP girls etc. I'd rather choose from a smaller pool of girls that are fucking me because they want to, than from a larger pool of girls that will fuck anyone for the right price. Certainly the smaller pool can be limiting, but I'm not in it for quantity as much as the quality of overall experience. I get the best experience when I turn it into a date night. The gift to the girl is often not much money (as you said, about what others are paying or less), but my total expenditure is almost certainly more than others because it often involves dinner or some form of date night. That may or may not be for everyone, but there is definitely a certain category of girls who appreciate the "dating experience". I think these are better "quality" girls, in the big scheme of things, because they are looking at their SD as someone they might potentially want to spend a lot of time with.

To the OP as far as girls saying "she hates guys like you", to be honest I don't usually encounter girls that are that direct and rude to me, so if she really said it directly like that, there are two possibilities. One of course is that she is nonredeemable human garbage. But more likely something in the conversation that led up to that point is why she took on such a bitchy attitude. For me, part of running game is finding that sweet spot of tactful conversation that never allows these girls, regardless of how nutty they are, to get too out of control. In other words if I'm a tactless and blunt prick, believe me it's going to bring out the bitchiness in some of these nutcases very quickly. However if I have a way of asserting my dominance with tact and skill, she's more likely to respect it, shut up, and her mind will be geared more toward what can she do to please me rather than the other way around. I'm sure some of the girls I run across are complete psychos too, but honestly I'm disengaged from the conversation long before it gets to that point. I almost never end a conversation on a rude or sour note with these girls.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3260195]I'm much the same. If I don't get a positive reaction to my profile description, my private pics or my messages, I just move on. I let them know why I'm on the site and if they are not looking for the same, I move on. If all they want to discuss is their allowance, I move on. Plenty to choose from.

If I had a boring profile, looked like a troll and had no charm in my messages, the story might be different. I don't mind narrowing down the field as long as I find a good match.[/QUOTE]If, as JL says, there's one you look at and just say 'I'd *really* like to fuck her,' I do have one other tactic. I approach everyone initially w / the nice guy vibe, unless the profile is specifically otherwise saying submissive. However, there are a *lot* of submissives on SA. I have a follow up that basically teases that idea, and I have had several young ones rise to that bait. They have at least engaged in conversation, but personally I haven't gotten any of those to the FC.

Having started to dip into the bowl. Have had one M&G which I think will work out well if we can get schedules to work. The question is, How much fishing do you do in the bowl? Not wanting to catch nothing, but don't want to get in over my head and can't work to meet them all.

Thanks.

[QUOTE=GolfMan57;3262328]Having started to dip into the bowl. Have had one M&G which I think will work out well if we can get schedules to work. The question is, How much fishing do you do in the bowl? Not wanting to catch nothing, but don't want to get in over my head and can't work to meet them all.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]I'm past 55 so my fishing is harder than the younger ones but I do manage to find 3 or 4 over a months membership on average. Best fishing is in the fall with all the newbies in town for college. As for keepers past the m&g, about 50%. I usually drop them back in rather than them throwing the hook first. GPS and just plain old no chemistry are my reasons for throwing them back in.