"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3222690]Boy do I need advice here. Right after starting in the bowl, I MnG w / a MILF. I thought she was nice and I expressed interest, but she never followed up. Recently, I contact a 25 YO POT on SA and am messaging w / her now. Very alt. She gives me a cell # and I immediately find her on FB, see many photos. It also says she got married in 2016. Even wilder, I recognize in her photos the MILF I met 5 months ago. Her mom!! And I verify from the real name that's on there. So, she's cheating on her new hubby, and someone else in her family already knows me. Mom told me at the MnG that she is open w / her daughters on everything she does, so she may actually know of me.

I guess I'd like to do this young one. She has a bangin' bod and looks like Lady Gaga. There are obviously dangers I'm not thinking about. The big head needs to take control. Help me, brothers.[/QUOTE]Separately, of course.

I know of two Mother Daughter sets on SA one in VA on in NC.

[QUOTE=FScott;3222698]Hey Farfar,

I don't know, as long as you kept your true identity secret, I can't really see a down side, unless you misled the mom somehow and she's waiting for a chance at revenge. But even then, what can she do short of forbidding her daughter to see you, which might just drive the daughter towards you faster!

As for unseen dangers, again I can't imagine any likely ones, but that said, don't we all thrive on the frisson of dangers in this pursuit? Adrenaline can be an aphrodisiac for some! All part of the secret agent lifestyle LOL.

Full speed ahead, I say, but other brothers may differ.

Scott.[/QUOTE]OK, presuming I take your advice, I have to keep mum on all the intel I have on her and her family, right? Keep it in my hip pocket in case things go south w / her of course. Anything else?

I was dating a sexy mif for 3-4 months a few years ago. Over the weekend I get a message on SA from a little 18 year old hotty that looks vaguely familiar. I finally placed her face late last night. It was the mifs 15 year old daughter. 3 years later. Haha.

She is dtf and totally intrigued with hooking up with guy her mom fucked. Good times to cum!

[QUOTE=FScott;3222698]Hey Farfar,

I don't know, as long as you kept your true identity secret, I can't really see a down side, unless you misled the mom somehow and she's waiting for a chance at revenge. But even then, what can she do short of forbidding her daughter to see you, which might just drive the daughter towards you faster!

As for unseen dangers, again I can't imagine any likely ones, but that said, don't we all thrive on the frisson of dangers in this pursuit? Adrenaline can be an aphrodisiac for some! All part of the secret agent lifestyle LOL.

Full speed ahead, I say, but other brothers may differ.

Scott.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3222721]OK, presuming I take your advice, I have to keep mum on all the intel I have on her and her family, right? Keep it in my hip pocket in case things go south w / her of course. Anything else?[/QUOTE]I wouldn't bring it up unless she does since you don't know how she'll react. If she does bring it up, then just go with it.

Without going into the long story. A chick I have seen several times who was new to SA and we had just discussed a monthly allowance. Very intelligent. But just started a premium account. I assume girls pay for this? And what is your guys idea of girls with premium accounts. From my research she really does not have the slutty pics etc and carries herself very well but maybe decided to take a turn? Just looking for some experienced opinions!

[QUOTE=LikeMike1963;3223260]Without going into the long story. A chick I have seen several times who was new to SA and we had just discussed a monthly allowance. Very intelligent. But just started a premium account. I assume girls pay for this? And what is your guys idea of girls with premium accounts. From my research she really does not have the slutty pics etc and carries herself very well but maybe decided to take a turn? Just looking for some experienced opinions![/QUOTE]Some pay and some get upgraded if they use a college email address. I asked one girl if she paid for premium and she was upgraded for the college email.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3223149]I wouldn't bring it up unless she does since you don't know how she'll react. If she does bring it up, then just go with it.[/QUOTE]She's kinda nervous messaging, wants to voice verify, says there's lots of fakes / scammers on the site. Maybe I should just tell her to get her mom to vouch for me. She met me a while back. NOT.

OK, you guys reassure me. I kept my secret identity from Mom no prob, it could turn out they realize at some point, but IDK. Given she's cheating on the new hubby, she might not tell Mom about this little fling. She says she'll drive anywhere to meet me.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3191432]My advice is to explore the comments in a conversation with her. So many dudes play these silly mind games and often in doing so out game them self! Who cares if she thinks she is getting in your head? It looks like she already has! So what if you have porn video of her, you really wanna play the "get even game" and start a war with her? (you'll loose in the end.) This is real life, not a game of Survivor or Big Brother! Be real, be honest, be open.

So the bottom line: What you want to do? If what you want is to keep seeing her then you need to nip this in the bud and re-establish your dominate position! Tell her you don't find that kind of joke funny and she appears to be dangerous or wacko in doing so and if she wants to keep seeing you, it needs to stop. Bottom line is that you have to be firm and have the ballZ to back it up.

Does no good to talk tough and not boot her out if she transgresses. I am sure she can read you fairly well if you have spent that much time with her. So if you are like a buddy I know (sucker tattooed on his forehead) then it is time to make a break and move on. If not, lay down the law in a firm but nice way. THEN if she plays that game again, dump her. She might flop around for a while and eventually show some contrition and you could go back to her later, if you wish. But at least she knows at that point you were serious and to NOT cross you.

All of that said, I hope to high h#ll that you have taken all of the appropriate precautions to put protective layers between you and the girl? Do you communicate with her using GV on a burner phone? Have you kept secret from her your real name and your real place of work? Does she know your license plate number? Is she your Facebook friend on a monger only FB account? If she knows who you are then the above paragraph is moot. As Graham111 says, get the heck out! (Oh, and "fix" those glaring errors in privacy protections for the next time!) If not and you have several protective layers between you and her, then you can explore the above conversation. I'd she is banking on your Sugar contribution to help pay for her new apartment, your leverage is great.

Just don't be the typical "guy" and fail to talk to her and try to fix problems. Yeah, I know it is pretty "relationship like". If you have a position of safety, it is worthwhile to try to nip this in the bud. Just see if you can talk to her about it and see what she says.

Good luck![/QUOTE]Once again my brothers came through with quick and informative responses. When I wrote this post mid December I had been seeing her weekly for 2 months, all hotel dates including one overnight and also one threesome. For the past three weeks I have been able to postpone / reschedule our dates without her realizing I was putting her on hold for a few weeks. I did stop in at the sports bar where she works for lunch and beers 2 weeks ago. The past 5 days she thinks I am at my step mother's in MD (I'm not) but we will be in the FC this Wednesday. I fully intend to talk to her about where she wants the arrangement to go and why she feels the need to try to get "cute" about my SO. My plan was actually to talk it over at lunch prior to the FC but she wants to get take out at an Asian restaurant so I will need to have a heart to heart in the hotel room before she starts ripping my clothes off. As you may recall the primary reason I want to try to keep her around is bc she is getting her own apt late February which will eliminate my hotel expense and give me late morning / mid day dates.

There are 2 significant aspects I need to add. The three weeks away from the FC has heated up her texts, including a recent one which simply was the 3 most scary words an SB can say. You guessed it. "I love you".

The second aspect is I have decided to renew one of my SA accounts, but not the one she is connected to. She has gone from getting on SA once a week to daily the past 3 or 4 days. She has also updated her public pics. I have favorited her with my second SA account to see if she would view me (she did). I then sent her a cute message with a private pic request to see if she would share her nude private pics with me. She replied with a message but did not share the private pics. Not sure if I will keep playing the game to see if she will share the private pics, probably depends on how it goes this Wednesday.

Cephlapod yes I cover my tracks with GV, although my actual cell number goes to my monger FB page. She does have access to my license tag but my courthouse cop pals tell me it is not easy for a private citizen to run a tag (anyone know anything different about that?

I will tell my brothers these points:

1. Most if not all SA girls lie.

2. Most are addicted to SA and always want a better, richer guy.

3. Most are seeing normal guys and multiple sugar daddies.

4. If they say they love you, it's just to keep you around.

5. If your "spidey senses" see her act strange, most of the time they are right.

6. Many sbs have mental problems and take some form of meds (legal and illegal).

7. Will try to push you and control you as much as they can.

8. Will go crazy if you end your situation with them.

Things to remember:

1. Never love them.

2. Never give important info out.

3. Always have a backup if you feel necessary.

4. Always be willing to walk away.

5. Be prepared to disappear.

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;3223633]Once again my brothers came through with quick and informative responses. When I wrote this post mid December I had been seeing her weekly for 2 months, all hotel dates including one overnight and also one threesome. For the past three weeks I have been able to postpone / reschedule our dates without her realizing I was putting her on hold for a few weeks. I did stop in at the sports bar where she works for lunch and beers 2 weeks ago. The past 5 days she thinks I am at my step mother's in MD (I'm not) but we will be in the FC this Wednesday. I fully intend to talk to her about where she wants the arrangement to go and why she feels the need to try to get "cute" about my SO. My plan was actually to talk it over at lunch prior to the FC but she wants to get take out at an Asian restaurant so I will need to have a heart to heart in the hotel room before she starts ripping my clothes off. As you may recall the primary reason I want to try to keep her around is bc she is getting her own apt late February which will eliminate my hotel expense and give me late morning / mid day dates.

There are 2 significant aspects I need to add. The three weeks away from the FC has heated up her texts, including a recent one which simply was the 3 most scary words an SB can say. You guessed it. "I love you".

The second aspect is I have decided to renew one of my SA accounts, but not the one she is connected to. She has gone from getting on SA once a week to daily the past 3 or 4 days. She has also updated her public pics. I have favorited her with my second SA account to see if she would view me (she did). I then sent her a cute message with a private pic request to see if she would share her nude private pics with me. She replied with a message but did not share the private pics. Not sure if I will keep playing the game to see if she will share the private pics, probably depends on how it goes this Wednesday.

Cephlapod yes I cover my tracks with GV, although my actual cell number goes to my monger FB page. She does have access to my license tag but my courthouse cop pals tell me it is not easy for a private citizen to run a tag (anyone know anything different about that?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DrMcNaughty;3222829]I was dating a sexy mif for 3-4 months a few years ago. Over the weekend I get a message on SA from a little 18 year old hotty that looks vaguely familiar. I finally placed her face late last night. It was the mifs 15 year old daughter. 3 years later. Hah![/QUOTE]Over the holidays, a guy that was in the group I hung with in high school looked me up on Facebook. He was traveling to town to see his daughter and wanted to get together for drinks. The appointed day comes, and my SO and I walk in the bar and guess what. His daughter was the swimsuit model I posted a pic of about 3 years ago. Good news, she was totally cool about it, she graduated from college and had a good job and acted like we were meeting for the first time. Did cause me to skip a few heartbeats though. Funny thing is that I did not keep up with him because he used to be something of a jerk, and then 3 decades later I was banging his daughter.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3223497]She's kinda nervous messaging, wants to voice verify, says there's lots of fakes / scammers on the site. Maybe I should just tell her to get her mom to vouch for me. She met me a while back. NOT.

OK, you guys reassure me. I kept my secret identity from Mom no prob, it could turn out they realize at some point, but IDK. Given she's cheating on the new hubby, she might not tell Mom about this little fling. She says she'll drive anywhere to meet me.[/QUOTE]Dude! Wow! Might wanna explore/temper some ASSUMPTIONS? Those seem to get me every time I do it!

1) What evidence do you have that she is cheating on her hubby? Is it possible he knows and supports her money making activities? Or is one projecting on the girl? Just askin'.

2) WTF business is it of yours even IF she is cheating on her hubby? Why do you care? As long as he isn't in the equation, who cares? BTW- Are you married, cheating, holding a double standard?

3) While the use of "resources" to collect info about babies is fine, IT IS NEVER APPROPRIATE TO REVEAL THAT RESEARCH! *** Always keep that knowledge in your hip-pocket! I know in the "gotcha culture" that we live it it is always tempting to throw stuff in another's face, especially when you catch them lying. But if one has a "secret identity" then one is lying too. Point the finger and 3 are pointing back at you. Nothing good comes from "spilling the beans" about one's research. It doesn't show your superiority, large intellect or anything, more likely labels you as a stalker or stranger danger to her. Keep your research / info mum at all times!

[color=grey]*** [i]NOTE: The use of "research" to determine if a girl is real, not a druggie, not a felon, not something dangerous is fine. That is appropriate. Problem is that guys just can't seem to stop there! we wanna know everything! Why? What does that info do for you? More often than not, as in this case (and the post above) the extra knowledge gets us twisted up in knots, over thinking things and out smarting ourselves. Since guys tend to wanna be "in charge" we let that tendency run over into hobbying and the additional info we collected. Just resist the temptation to do that. Verify she is sane/safe and then focus on the FC! Jeez![/i][/color]

4) Who cares if she tells Mom about you? Maybe Mom will remember you and give you a good review? Maybe Mom will offer to do a threesome? Only place that hurts you is if Mom thinks yer a d*ck. (which it doesn't sound like is the case)

5) Her being nervous about meeting & wanting to voice verify (VV) isn't a bad thing. I NEVER leave the house without first VV. That saves me from flakes, scams, etc. Shoot, last night had a baby gunna meet. Have seen her many times before, had a meeting location set and a time and she told me she was on the way. I told her to call me when she got XYZ a corner a few blocks away from meeting. I stayed home. 20-min after our set time she texts that she had a flat tire! LOL! Saved me from a bunch of frustration. Also, VV is a great way to ferret out girls that are dull, inappropriate or druggies. So VV is a great idea!

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;3223633]Once again my brothers came through with quick and informative responses. When I wrote this post mid December I had been seeing her weekly for 2 months, all hotel dates including one overnight and also one threesome. For the past three weeks I have been able to postpone / reschedule our dates without her realizing I was putting her on hold for a few weeks. I did stop in at the sports bar where she works for lunch and beers 2 weeks ago. The past 5 days she thinks I am at my step mother's in MD (I'm not) but we will be in the FC this Wednesday. I fully intend to talk to her about where she wants the arrangement to go and why she feels the need to try to get "cute" about my SO. My plan was actually to talk it over at lunch prior to the FC but she wants to get take out at an Asian restaurant so I will need to have a heart to heart in the hotel room before she starts ripping my clothes off. As you may recall the primary reason I want to try to keep her around is bc she is getting her own apt late February which will eliminate my hotel expense and give me late morning / mid day dates.

There are 2 significant aspects I need to add. The three weeks away from the FC has heated up her texts, including a recent one which simply was the 3 most scary words an SB can say. You guessed it. "I love you".

The second aspect is I have decided to renew one of my SA accounts, but not the one she is connected to. She has gone from getting on SA once a week to daily the past 3 or 4 days. She has also updated her public pics. I have favorited her with my second SA account to see if she would view me (she did). I then sent her a cute message with a private pic request to see if she would share her nude private pics with me. She replied with a message but did not share the private pics. Not sure if I will keep playing the game to see if she will share the private pics, probably depends on how it goes this Wednesday.

Cephlapod yes I cover my tracks with GV, although my actual cell number goes to my monger FB page. She does have access to my license tag but my courthouse cop pals tell me it is not easy for a private citizen to run a tag (anyone know anything different about that?[/QUOTE]OK, glad you are set to have the talk! Might I suggest you do that AFTER your romp? If she gets pizzed and leaves, you lost the room & potential. Also if you don't have agreement, playing anyway could kinda negate the seriousness of your position.

But it is not clear to me that one is willing to walk away from this girl if she doesn't act the way you want. You mentioned again the desire for her because she is getting her own place. Look, I'm just sayin' But IF I can see this kind of "crack" in your resolve, if she has any brains, she see it (and more) and she'll drive a truck through it!

Now as far as all of your SA snooping goes- Once again, Mr. Detective is out-smartiing himself! Sheet dude! You put her on ice for 3-weeks over the holidays when cash needs are the highest and she might expect an "extra" bonus or tip over the holidays? I am sure she senses that you are distancing from her, so what do you expect her to do? Be loyal to you? But what is with all of this game playing? Huh? Is this Survivor or Big Brother? So what would it have told you if she HAD shared her nude photos with your second SA moniker? What would have been actionable from that? Oh and how do you know she can't tell the second account is you? Same age, height, body style, writing style, similar pics, etc?

As OP mentioned the ILY is prolly her manipulation / game to keep you on the hook. But you got to suss that out. She clearly is in your head with it and since it is effecting you so much, you need a convo with the dude in the mirror to figure out what you want to do: stay or run?

Finally I think you are running fools game with GV on your "real" phone. I just lost a buddy who was a great monger when his SO saw an email on his phone. Yeah, he thought it was OK to "separate" things by just using GV on his phone, but that failed. The point is to create a separate totally compartmentalized universe for hobbying with little or zero ties back to real life! Monger phone might be harder to hide, but with GV layered on it, you have the best protection. The other point is that having your actual cell number go to your monger FB account. THAT is insane! What happens when SO, employer or client uses the search techniques you did or somehow links the two (real person, monger identity). Where are you then?

Yeah, civies are generally barred from doing license tag searches. But I would bet it is a snap, and fairly cheap, to get a PI to do that. I always park backed into a wall or something that blocks my tag. Or watch and wave as she wanders off into the night, so there is no chance of seeing the tag. But for the hard core, there is always a license plate flipper or hider. If you are handy with tools it can be under $100.

[URL]http://www.ebay.com/itm/STEALTH-HIDDEN-LICENSE-PLATE-FRAME-HIDE-AWAY-LICENSE-PLATES-BRAND-NEW-/172411670971?hash=item28248951bb:g:DYEAAOSwjDZYbvt7&vxp=mtr[/URL]

There are cheaper options. Got mine for 68!

So just some thoughts fwiw. Stay Safe!

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3224472]...
Yeah, civies are generally barred from doing license tag searches. But I would bet it is a snap, and fairly cheap, to get a PI to do that. I always park backed into a wall or something that blocks my tag. Or watch and wave as she wanders off into the night, so there is no chance of seeing the tag. But for the hard core, there is always a license plate flipper or hider. If you are handy with tools it can be under $100....[/QUOTE]I was at a AAA Car Care Center and parked in front of the lobby. The clerk did not have to ask about my vehicle just entered the plate # and got all the details!

Don't know if car shops have access to all the info or only the vehicle info.

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;3223633] She does have access to my license tag but my courthouse cop pals tell me it is not easy for a private citizen to run a tag (anyone know anything different about that?)[/QUOTE]Somewhere in this thread I've written a few posts on the tactic of pretexting. Most people don't realize that this is one of the most important tools in the toolbox of private investigators (and any other profession that wants access to something they otherwise should not have access to). Pretext attacks can be incredibly simple, yet at the same time produce incredible results in situations where people thought their information or identity was safe. If I even began to talk about the people I've been able to locate or identify, or other benefits I've obtained to my advantage with pretexting techniques, I doubt anyone would believe me anyway, so I'm going to give an example that directly answers your question. Keep in mind here I am not advocating anyone break the law (which is sometimes necessary to maximize effectiveness in a pretext attack). I'm just giving an example of how your courthouse cop pal is both correct and incorrect at the same time.

Let's say car repair shops have privileged access to a license plate lookup database that is offered only to verified businesses of their type. Let's say a sugarbaby want's very badly to know who her daddy is, in case she wants to make him sweat a little bit to her advantage, maybe upgrade her amount a little bit. Let's say she is both conniving by nature (far fetched I know, women are never like that are they? LOL), but also reasonably high IQ. Even if she doesn't think this up by herself, she might post a request somewhere on a forum that helps her out. Or she might read this forum. Anyway, let's say one way or the other she is hell-bent on getting this done, and decides to call up a repair shop and say:

"Hi there, I want to surprise my husband for his birthday and buy him a new _ _ _ _ _ _ _ " (whatever this car shop specializes in, let's say a brake job) ", because that's what he really wants and needs, but I don't know all the details about his car, I'm not even sure about the year it's just a Mercedes something. If I give you the plate would you be able to look us up?" Then the service manager says sure, and runs the plate, and says "Is he John Smith at 3210 Main Street by any chance?" She says "yep that's us" and then pretends to be interested in the price of the car service estimate, more importantly she just got her SD's name and address.

Now that might fail at a few shops, if the manager is on the ball and read the 200 page employee handbook on how to properly handle identifying information, but the times that I've needed to do something like this, almost without fail I can hit paydirt sometime within the first half dozen tries.

Pretexting is evil, it is social manipulation, but it can pay very well. And unfortunately some SBs are definitely evil and very good social manipulators.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;3225072]I was at a AAA Car Care Center and parked in front of the lobby. The clerk did not have to ask about my vehicle just entered the plate # and got all the details!

Don't know if car shops have access to all the info or only the vehicle info.[/QUOTE]In some states, such as California, you can do many DMV tasks (primarily involving the car and not the person - titles/registration yes, license renewals no) at a AAA office. Hence, they have to have access to the DMV computer system. It is a way to buy yourself around the long waits at the DMV to have a AAA membership. So, depends on the state.

Anyone who's been reading my posts knows I have a license plate I bought off a wrecker that I put on my car anytime I see a SB. Almost all the time, I think after the fact that there was no indication the girl was even looking at it or was smart enough to have that in mind, and it was a waste of time in a setting where time is short. I still do it, though. The biggest problem I had is forgetting to switch back to my real plate and driving home w/ the ringer. SO could have seen it and the jig is up, but luckily, no - I saw it the next morning early, before the car was out of the garage, and switched.