"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3202901]RBD said it all, what he said is the reason "why" not to. There is also a hint of a request for "how" not to in your message though.

Problem is, you don't need a worst case scenario to occur in order to start accumulating a long list of regrets that is difficult to remedy. Once you start getting a few stressful events (close calls) under your belt, you realize that taking risks with your job or marriage are just not worth it. While not as bad as getting caught, getting a taste of what it's like to get caught sucks almost as bad and takes all the fun out the game.

The bowl offers a steady enough supply of pussy that it makes no sense to put yourself at risk of repercussions in your professional or personal life. Being married and playing with girls that are involved in anyway with your job is a double-risk.[/QUOTE]You guys correctly perceive I need moral support for the course that I know I should follow, reluctantly. I have been having some excellent online interaction w / HYP, but I am in every case asking them what school they go to. There isn't only my big college in the town but a smaller few (one, by the way, is associated w / a large organized religion, and I find it interesting that the girls from there still are showing up on SA). If I find they are at my school, I am going silent (so far). I haven't blocked them, at least so far, because I needed this reflection and your counsel. Sigh. I guess they are going away. But of course you are right, there is plenty of pussy that doesn't have this added risk. It needs to be one of our prime directives to never offer the potential for our secret identities to be busted by accident.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3203088]You guys correctly perceive I need moral support for the course that I know I should follow, reluctantly. I have been having some excellent online interaction w / HYP, but I am in every case asking them what school they go to. There isn't only my big college in the town but a smaller few (one, by the way, is associated w / a large organized religion, and I find it interesting that the girls from there still are showing up on SA). If I find they are at my school, I am going silent (so far). I haven't blocked them, at least so far, because I needed this reflection and your counsel. Sigh. I guess they are going away. But of course you are right, there is plenty of pussy that doesn't have this added risk. It needs to be one of our prime directives to never offer the potential for our secret identities to be busted by accident.[/QUOTE]Well I don't know about moral support. Honestly what we do is not moral. But if we make that choice we still do not want to hurt the people in our world. It's a Risk vs. Reward thing. It's about layers of protection and being non specific. I could go on and on. I have learned a great deal in my own experience. Done some stupid shit. I am amazed it didn't blow up back then. I have also learned a great deal on here from reading alot of different threads. Having been with very beautiful and enthusiastic women I don't get cockbent and rush to any girl. I can't tell you how many times that has worked out for the better.

FYI, the religious girls are the most cum thirsty sluts out there.

RBD out.

[QUOTE=RedBaronDaron;3203263]Well I don't know about moral support. Honestly what we do is not moral. But if we make that choice we still do not want to hurt the people in our world. It's a Risk vs. Reward thing. It's about layers of protection and being non specific. I could go on and on. I have learned a great deal in my own experience. Done some stupid shit. I am amazed it didn't blow up back then. I have also learned a great deal on here from reading alot of different threads. Having been with very beautiful and enthusiastic women I don't get cockbent and rush to any girl. I can't tell you how many times that has worked out for the better.

FYI, the religious girls are the most cum thirsty sluts out there.

RBD out.[/QUOTE]Not to be argumentative, I think the term moral support refers to encouraging one's brethren to do the thing that they should do for their own or other's good, rather than the thing that instinct says to go for. It is moral support when my bowl brothers tell me not to nail a particular POT, even if the reason is not that it is immoral to do so, but b / c it saves my own bacon in the long run.

I have studied these threads for lessons, too, and have had a couple of sticky situations that could have blown up into real shitstorms but luckily didn't. We're all taking calculated risks, and for me maximizing the reward / risk ratio is all about cutting the risk. Pussy can only be so good. I may have maxed out on quality w / my very first SB, ModelMILF, but of course quantity and variety are virtues also.

I agree that sugaring wouldn't fall into moral high ground for most people, but stuff that is in my life, by bad luck or the bad behavior of others, is as bad or worse. I think there is some fairness to my life by including the bowl.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3203816]Not to be argumentative, I think the term moral support refers to encouraging one's brethren to do the thing that they should do for their own or other's good, rather than the thing that instinct says to go for. It is moral support when my bowl brothers tell me not to nail a particular POT, even if the reason is not that it is immoral to do so, but b / c it saves my own bacon in the long run.

I have studied these threads for lessons, too, and have had a couple of sticky situations that could have blown up into real shitstorms but luckily didn't. We're all taking calculated risks, and for me maximizing the reward / risk ratio is all about cutting the risk. Pussy can only be so good. I may have maxed out on quality w / my very first SB, ModelMILF, but of course quantity and variety are virtues also.

I agree that sugaring wouldn't fall into moral high ground for most people, but stuff that is in my life, by bad luck or the bad behavior of others, is as bad or worse. I think there is some fairness to my life by including the bowl.[/QUOTE]I read you. I may have taken the term moral support out of the context you intended. Responding on forums can be a bit off sometimes because you don't have the nuances of an actual verbal conversation. But man you do write fancy, like an English Professor. I may lack your eloquent way of wording but I do think we are very much on the same page. Now get out there and bang some bitches!!

BTW, check out some stuff I wrote on the Tidewater Area- General reports thread. I am curious what you think?

[QUOTE=RedBaronDaron;3203829]I read you. I may have taken the term moral support out of the context you intended. Responding on forums can be a bit off sometimes because you don't have the nuances of an actual verbal conversation. But man you do write fancy, like an English Professor. I may lack your eloquent way of wording but I do think we are very much on the same page. Now get out there and bang some bitches!!

BTW, check out some stuff I wrote on the Tidewater Area- General reports thread. I am curious what you think?[/QUOTE]I plead guilty. Yes, I write for a living. My bowl brother read some messages I was sending to a POT and said something like 'you've got to stop writing like a grandfather' so I try to get punchier and shorter for the young ones, the generation that lives on 140 characters. I'll look at your other posts and comment there.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3204037]I plead guilty. Yes, I write for a living. My bowl brother read some messages I was sending to a POT and said something like 'you've got to stop writing like a grandfather' so I try to get punchier and shorter for the young ones, the generation that lives on 140 characters. I'll look at your other posts and comment there.[/QUOTE]One might also consider the fact that the POTs at the religious school might someday decide to transfer to your Uni. What if she ends up in one 0 f your classes? M part Maybe a low risk scenario but is a check of the major part too?

Sorry. Just thinking outa the box.

POT has a breeding fetish. Ok I can handle that. And it's an excuse to go BB, since she has an IUD. As we are enjoying the dirty talk she asks "well what if I get pregnant for real?" I let her go first and she says she wants to keep it because she doesn't believe in abortion. And then proceeds to talk about being my secret family and totally getting off on it. This is an educated professional 20-something white girl.

Though I am ashamed to admit the sheer level of crazy is kind of a huge turn on. I may have egged her on to see how far down the rabbit hole she would go. (The answer is that she wants me to get two other friends / SDs to join us for the BB breeding sessions.

This has made me realize that it's time to get out. Some of these girls are truly wacko. And I am getting turned on by seriously dangerous shit. At least this girl is open about it. The one that doesn't say anything is the real problem.

Later boys. Stay safe and sane. It's been real.

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[QUOTE=JZLizard;3202901]RBD said it all, what he said is the reason "why" not to. There is also a hint of a request for "how" not to in your message though.

If you're looking for tactics to talk yourself out of it, just imagine the absolute worst that could possibly happen, and think deep on it. Keep replaying variations on the worst case scenario in your mind. Meanwhile distract yourself with other girls that are not involved in any way with your place of employment (that may actually be a little harder than it sounds if your primary playing field is near a decent sized school). It may take a little practice to get the hang of but the combination of the distraction of lower-risk POTS combined with the realization of the worst case scenarios will lower the temptation effect and help you stay on the right path.

Problem is, you don't need a worst case scenario to occur in order to start accumulating a long list of regrets that is difficult to remedy. Once you start getting a few stressful events (close calls) under your belt, you realize that taking risks with your job or marriage are just not worth it. While not as bad as getting caught, getting a taste of what it's like to get caught sucks almost as bad and takes all the fun out the game.

The bowl offers a steady enough supply of pussy that it makes no sense to put yourself at risk of repercussions in your professional or personal life. Being married and playing with girls that are involved in anyway with your job is a double-risk.[/QUOTE]Yes, I am getting a taste of your second paragraph right now. I've mentioned I sent out a blast of messages on SA and now I am getting the return. Too many to actively pursue when having a SO, but I'm taking my shots. There's the 27 YO tall busty massage student, 24 YO Harvard grad, a 28 YO certified fashion model (gave me her real name and I easily found her pics online), an 18 YO adventure-hound coed, etc. The main problem was I had no excuse during the holidays to get out and about to see the POTs.

In my post below I discuss the SO becoming alerted, I presume by sixth sense, b/c there's no real evidence. She's a little bent and has done similar things when there was no basis for suspicions; this time, when I had actually seen someone, it had quite the chilling effect. I also spent a night sleepless worrying her suspicions would prompt a successful search for my burner and sugar stash - then it would be game over. I called off many other POTs I had been stringing along, explaining subtly the exposure threat. Ironically, now the SO has reverted to normal.

As attractive as all of those POTs seemed to me just 24 hours ago, now they are just a burden. Offering a risk that I will be someplace I am not supposed to be when meeting them, or will be seen by someone I know who won't recognize the girl. Yes, this is no fun at all. Anyway, cutting them loose is preferable for me now vs. the possibility of getting exposed, and I hope to be able to emerge from the fetal position I am now curled into in the new year.

I was super cautious when I began in the bowl, with much fear. After 6 mos and some success, I became comfortable, perhaps a little complacent, and felt I could keep this going w / o detection. I don't think I was arrogant or too cocky, but still, I have pulled way back in response to this incident, not without regret. You have the POTs when you have them. It's a shame they can't be put in the deep freeze for later use. There's no doubt I regard them as a valuable resource, since I have the same low hit rate others discuss. I have written an attractive profile that gets many responses from my target demographic. Many later drop away, also no surprise, some not coincidentally following seeing my full pic. It's the reality we have to face that all girls aren't going to want to be w / daddies decades older.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3208867]Yes, I am getting a taste of your second paragraph right now. I've mentioned I sent out a blast of messages on SA and now I am getting the return. Too many to actively pursue when having a SO, but I'm taking my shots. There's the 27 YO tall busty massage student, 24 YO Harvard grad, a 28 YO certified fashion model (gave me her real name and I easily found her pics online), an 18 YO adventure-hound coed, etc. The main problem was I had no excuse during the holidays to get out and about to see the POTs.

In my post below I discuss the SO becoming alerted, I presume by sixth sense, b/c there's no real evidence. She's a little bent and has done similar things when there was no basis for suspicions; this time, when I had actually seen someone, it had quite the chilling effect. I also spent a night sleepless worrying her suspicions would prompt a successful search for my burner and sugar stash - then it would be game over. I called off many other POTs I had been stringing along, explaining subtly the exposure threat. Ironically, now the SO has reverted to normal.

As attractive as all of those POTs seemed to me just 24 hours ago, now they are just a burden. Offering a risk that I will be someplace I am not supposed to be when meeting them, or will be seen by someone I know who won't recognize the girl. Yes, this is no fun at all. Anyway, cutting them loose is preferable for me now vs. the possibility of getting exposed, and I hope to be able to emerge from the fetal position I am now curled into in the new year.

I was super cautious when I began in the bowl, with much fear. After 6 mos and some success, I became comfortable, perhaps a little complacent, and felt I could keep this going w / o detection. I don't think I was arrogant or too cocky, but still, I have pulled way back in response to this incident, not without regret. You have the POTs when you have them. It's a shame they can't be put in the deep freeze for later use. There's no doubt I regard them as a valuable resource, since I have the same low hit rate others discuss. I have written an attractive profile that gets many responses from my target demographic. Many later drop away, also no surprise, some not coincidentally following seeing my full pic. It's the reality we have to face that all girls aren't going to want to be w / daddies decades older.[/QUOTE]Complacency is the downfall of many. Whenever I start feeling comfortable, that's the moment I stop and take a break from it all. A feeling of safety and comfort while doing this, for those of us with something to lose, is the first indication that something is wrong and should be fixed. Factoring in the headache of the risks involved, and managing them as part of the big picture is just a part of long-term success, and whenever you're able to be proactive about fixing problems before they are in full-swing, it's something to commend yourself for. It's a sign of good discipline and judgment. Lack of those two traits results in very unhappy endings for the married man long-term. I've talked about my preference for not staying with any girl too long and not playing too close to home or work. It's all part of that same strategy. I'd play the game completely differently if I were a single man I'm sure.

[QUOTE=GuyInTheCorner;3206810]POT has a breeding fetish. Ok I can handle that. And it's an excuse to go BB, since she has an IUD. As we are enjoying the dirty talk she asks "well what if I get pregnant for real?" I let her go first and she says she wants to keep it because she doesn't believe in abortion. And then proceeds to talk about being my secret family and totally getting off on it. This is an educated professional 20-something white girl.

Though I am ashamed to admit the sheer level of crazy is kind of a huge turn on. I may have egged her on to see how far down the rabbit hole she would go. (The answer is that she wants me to get two other friends / SDs to join us for the BB breeding sessions.

This has made me realize that it's time to get out. Some of these girls are truly wacko. And I am getting turned on by seriously dangerous shit. At least this girl is open about it. The one that doesn't say anything is the real problem.

Later boys. Stay safe and sane. It's been real.[/QUOTE]This is one of the reason I got a vasectomy. I don't know where you guys are and your life, but I highly recommend you get one if you not planning on having kids anymore. If you have a SO, talk with her about it, if you are not planning on having more kids. She will usually be happy that you are willing to take on the responsibility of birth control and it is so much easier and safer than her getting her tubes tied. If she has had that done, it might not be good idea to talk about a vasectomy.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3209437]Complacency is the downfall of many. Whenever I start feeling comfortable, that's the moment I stop and take a break from it all. A feeling of safety and comfort while doing this, for those of us with something to lose, is the first indication that something is wrong and should be fixed. Factoring in the headache of the risks involved, and managing them as part of the big picture is just a part of long-term success, and whenever you're able to be proactive about fixing problems before they are in full-swing, it's something to commend yourself for. It's a sign of good discipline and judgment. Lack of those two traits results in very unhappy endings for the married man long-term. I've talked about my preference for not staying with any girl too long and not playing too close to home or work. It's all part of that same strategy. I'd play the game completely differently if I were a single man I'm sure.[/QUOTE]JL, can you give other examples of "be proactive about fixing problems before they are in full-swing"? I assume you've mentioned two already. And, can you define 'too long' and 'too close'?

Happy New Year to all my bowl brothers. I hope the year turns w / your tongue (or dick) in some hottie's mouth.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3209612]JL, can you give other examples of "be proactive about fixing problems before they are in full-swing"? I assume you've mentioned two already. And, can you define 'too long' and 'too close'?
Happy New Year to all my bowl brothers. I hope the year turns w / your tongue (or dick) in some hottie's mouth.[/QUOTE]I can try, but I should point out it's all very situation-specific, my experiences may or may not apply, which is why I prefer to generalize by saying just be proactive when possible (always consider risks, and behave preemptively).

Think about the opportunities for suspicion and try to address them before hand). One example I've given in the past is to plan an out of town event with an SB (keep it away from home), but invite the SO to go with you (making sure its something that would bore her so that she's not going to accept the invitation). If she did accept, you can always find a way to cancel. But, all of this is done BEFORE the actual date with the SB is lined up. The risk was eliminated (either by your SO thinking there's no way you'd invite her if you were up to anything, or by the fact you cancelled) before things got too far down the road.

Another example, you said there has been some recent suspicion about afternoon errands. Continue the behavior in question (assuming they were really innocent errands) and just let her get over it. If they weren't really innocent errands before, then start going on innocent errands during the same times of day. Invite her to go on the errands with you until she does or provide some other proof of where you are without making it obvious that's what you're doing. Maybe call her from the place you're at and ask her if she wants anything from a store there, etc. The last thing you want to do is stop the behavior because then it reinforces her suspicion and makes it look like you were up to something and that you changed your behavior only to let her snoop meter cool down. Not good.

That last example sounds a bit more reactive than proactive, but that really depends on the timing with which you put it into effect. To me, being proactive here is more about putting yourself in her shoes long enough to glance at a given situation from different angles before you proceed. If you were her, what sort of things would be a red flag? What can you do to address this before you get in too deep? As long as you're taking steps to think about and address all of this before trouble starts, you're being proactive whether you labeled it such or not.

One thing I do is simply make myself scarce at the first sign of clingy behavior from the SB. It can be tempting to take advantage of the good sex that is to be had while they are in the "formative stages" of clingy, as they are on their best behavior and trying to give you reasons to come back for more. So to be proactive I have to be the one to say "enough" first, even though I don't want to.

The overall mentality is kind of like going to a party when you've got something extremely important to do early the next morning. You prepare by telling yourself no more than 2 drinks and you'll only stay for an hour and a half. When it's time to keep your promise to yourself and walk away, it's difficult and just plain sucks because the fun is only starting, but the importance of the next day's activity motivates you to do the right thing. Same situation, except swap out the booze and time limit for pussy and limit on number of dates, and swap out the important next day event for your relationship with your SO.

JMHO but if you truly feel you have something to lose by playing in the bowl or hobby then you need to find a different hobby. If your worried about losing the SO then get out cause unless she is stupid, just doesn't care, or has her own fwb on the side, sooner or later your going to get caught. If its your assets your worried about then take the hit and get out. Both will be much happier in the long run and you don't have to do all the secret squirrel crap written about here. No one that has something that they truly don't want to lose puts himself in a situation to lose it. If you want to blame it on addiction then get help. But wait you have to want help before it works. Usually most don't get help till they hit rock bottom and wait for it Lose everything.

Pretty simple not rocket science.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3209695]JMHO but if you truly feel you have something to lose by playing in the bowl or hobby then you need to find a different hobby. If your worried about losing the SO then get out cause unless she is stupid, just doesn't care, or has her own fwb on the side, sooner or later your going to get caught. If its your assets your worried about then take the hit and get out. Both will be much happier in the long run and you don't have to do all the secret squirrel crap written about here. No one that has something that they truly don't want to lose puts himself in a situation to lose it. If you want to blame it on addiction then get help. But wait you have to want help before it works. Usually most don't get help till they hit rock bottom and wait for it Lose everything.
Pretty simple not rocket science.[/QUOTE]But some of us have had multiple decades of success managing the addiction and are able to have our cake and eat it too as long as we are willing to continually work on developing our craft. And sometimes we like to compare notes. Nobody is coming here for a lecture or to be told what they should or shouldn't do, it's about comparing ideas or sharing experiences. If you find yourself wildly outside of the group that's into that, perhaps the Richmond thread isn't for you.

Addictions can be reasonably managed. Men like variety in their sex life. To use your phrase, it's not rocket science (that aspect at least). Me personally , I'm in a place where I've been successful managing the addiction but as I get older I am finding that while getting strange pussy is fun, my relationship with my SO is actually getting better rather than worse with time, and when that happens I start to place a higher priority on honest communication between her and me than I do gratifying the sexual urges that are still part of what's left of my youth. But how common is that? I'm not sure. Many guys here might tell you they aren't that crazy about their wife anymore and would get out if they could do so successfully and without taking a financial hit. So, I'm fully aware that my situation and my reasons for scaling back on the bowl are fairly rare or unique at least to my knowledge, and at least within this thread. For me and I suspect most brothers who dabble in the bowl while maintaining something real, it is a complex juggling act and not at all as simple as the summary you've used to label it.

Everyone has their own reasons for doing what they do, or making a decision to continue or stop. Sermons on what they should do are not going to contribute any real value to the thread or be taken seriously here.