"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;3190732]
My instincts are to not let her know the leverage I have over her but I figure I have three choices. I could tell her I appreciate her sense of humor but it doesn't fit my sense of humor (but then she knows she is getting into my head). I could continue like nothing is bothering me but watch her / listen to her carefully. Or I could distance myself from her ASAP, for example, I could tell her I need to be out of town on family business for the next month or so and see if she gets active back on SA (currently she goes on the site about every 7 to 10 days). Interested in comments, including of course WWJ (eez) D.[/QUOTE]

My advice is to explore the comments in a conversation with her. So many dudes play these silly mind games and often in doing so out game them self! Who cares if she thinks she is getting in your head? It looks like she already has! So what if you have porn video of her, you really wanna play the "get even game" and start a war with her? (you'll loose in the end.) This is real life, not a game of Survivor or Big Brother! Be real, be honest, be open.

So the bottom line: What you want to do? If what you want is to keep seeing her then you need to nip this in the bud and re-establish your dominate position! Tell her you don't find that kind of joke funny and she appears to be dangerous or wacko in doing so and if she wants to keep seeing you, it needs to stop. Bottom line is that you have to be firm and have the ballZ to back it up.

Does no good to talk tough and not boot her out if she transgresses. I am sure she can read you fairly well if you have spent that much time with her. So if you are like a buddy I know (sucker tattooed on his forehead) then it is time to make a break and move on. If not, lay down the law in a firm but nice way. THEN if she plays that game again, dump her. She might flop around for a while and eventually show some contrition and you could go back to her later, if you wish. But at least she knows at that point you were serious and to NOT cross you.

All of that said, I hope to high h#ll that you have taken all of the appropriate precautions to put protective layers between you and the girl? Do you communicate with her using GV on a burner phone? Have you kept secret from her your real name and your real place of work? Does she know your license plate number? Is she your Facebook friend on a monger only FB account? If she knows who you are then the above paragraph is moot. As Graham111 says, get the heck out! (Oh, and "fix" those glaring errors in privacy protections for the next time!) If not and you have several protective layers between you and her, then you can explore the above conversation. I'd she is banking on your Sugar contribution to help pay for her new apartment, your leverage is great.

Just don't be the typical "guy" and fail to talk to her and try to fix problems. Yeah, I know it is pretty "relationship like". If you have a position of safety, it is worthwhile to try to nip this in the bud. Just see if you can talk to her about it and see what she says.

Good luck!

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;3190732]Would be interested in hearing advice and opinions from the brothers on my current SB.[/QUOTE]The good news is that this is not a bowl-specific issue (it happens in civy dating too for those getting some poon on the side). It is almost always an attempt to get a reaction out of you rather than lining you up for a true extortion attempt. Just typical female manipulation attempt to see if they can make you sweat. None of them ever followed through, and I'm not sure if that's because of the way I handled it when it happened, or the fact that I put distance between the girl and me (either immediately or over time).

That's not to say true extortion attempts are not a real threat, the element of money (their perception of a bigger payoff) makes that threat more relevant in the bowl than civy dating, IMHO. It's one of the many reasons I don't like regular recurring visits with a single girl. Not many of them would pull this kind of thing during the get-to-know phase of the first 1-4 dates.

As far as how to handle it, I'd agree with another poster about distancing yourself from her. You've been caught once, and you don't need the stress of even having to think about whether or not your secret friend is also your secret enemy. The whole point of the bowl is to have a good time, does hanging out with a girl who is potentially a ticking time bomb, or even one who gets her kicks by trying to make you believe she's a ticking time bomb, sound like a good time? It doesn't to me. There's always fresh new willing pussy out there, why deal with headaches from one?

You said maybe it's just her sense of humor. Personally I think girls with poor joke choices make very annoying conversation partners, but that's subjective. You could always try fighting fire with fire, and counter her bad humor attempt with another bad humor attempt. For example, if she's grinning ear to ear and says "what if I say give me $3 k or I tell your wife?!" Just counter that by grinning ear to ear and say "well I'd say you better spend it quick because its probably only a matter of time before you disappear and nobody hears from you again". Make sure it's clear you're joking too, being facetious to match her attempt at same, but also be sure and study her facial expression as you tell her that, as it will be a satisfying moment that you want to reflect on.

But if it were me I would just find another girl who is less of a hassle. If the next girl is also a hassle, delete her from the contact list and on with the next. Next, next next. Variety is infinitely more satisfying than the same old routine anyway.

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;3190732]What she doesn't know is that I have a sizable amount of research on her. I knew her real name and FB account before we met the first time. From the beginning she encouraged me to visit her at work (server in a high end sports bar), which I have. Most importantly I have a very hot 2 minute video of her sucking my cock.

My instincts are to not let her know the leverage I have over her but I figure I have three choices. I could tell her I appreciate her sense of humor but it doesn't fit my sense of humor (but then she knows she is getting into my head). I could continue like nothing is bothering me but watch her / listen to her carefully. Or I could distance myself from her ASAP, for example, I could tell her I need to be out of town on family business for the next month or so and see if she gets active back on SA (currently she goes on the site about every 7 to 10 days). Interested in comments, including of course WWJ (eez) D.[/QUOTE]My thoughts. Juts ghost and disappear. She is bad news!

[QUOTE=Lioil;3191386]So it seems maybe average is 2 . HOW do you initiate the conversation? Just say outright x for overnight or for few hours? If they bite then go if not then next?

I used AM briefly and I had some of them insist on Mg while I had others who wanted way too much. One girl kept mentioning having to pay her 20 k tuition. Just curious if anyone can share a typical intro? Thanks.[/QUOTE]During negotiations it is better to listen more than you talk. My last two SBs, both one-night stands while I was traveling on business, never mentioned money. Neither did I. Before I leave for a trip I always go to the bank for crisp new bills, especially hundred-dollar bills. On my last adventure I paid one SB $100 (my standard) and the other $120 (includes a tip for great service). They both left the room satisfied and both called the next day asking if they could come back. There is something about the sight and smell of a new hundred-dollar bill that excites all women.

If one of them had balked that $100 wasn't enough I would have gone higher -- but on SA I have never paid more than $150 plus Uber fare. Never. Whenever I discuss money in advance I tell the SB that I generally pay a hundred on the first date, with a tip if it's good. I tell her the larger payoffs come on dates two, three, four, etc. , as we get to know each other and work toward a monthly "arrangement. ".

Of course, I never get around to offering an arrangement. I am in the game for variety, and usually I am one and done with a chick unless she is exceptional. And if she is I will increase the rate that I pay -- but never to more than $150.

Mind you, this tactic will not work on the most gorgeous women in the highest demand. That is fine with me, since many of them are also the worst fucks. My rates are also for 60-90 minutes -- not overnight. You have to understand that a lot of chicks are catching hell in the economy. Making $150 in an hour 15 minutes is one hell of a deal for a lot of chicks who woke up that morning needing a few bucks to tide things over until she receives her monthly child support check.

Many guys overpay because they are afraid of being turned down. Through 30-plus years of mongering I have never harbored that fear. And nowadays, with the internet, there is an endless supply. It is truly a buyer's market. Therefore, I am more than happy to just move on to the next prospect if the first one turns me down. I learned that lesson many, many years ago when I paid one chick $300 and she wasn't nearly as good as the chick I paid $75 to the night before. Happy trails.

[QUOTE=CigarFL;3191679]During negotiations it is better to listen more than you talk.[/QUOTE]Your message title and first sentence pretty much sum up my method. By their nature, SBs are usually too young, too inexperienced, and too female (LOL) to be good negotiators. Therefore, the less we say about the subject of how much, the better position we are in.

Yes, there are some that start off demanding to know how much, and there are some who will never get off the subject. I just disconnect from those, they are always going to be a PITA anyway. Like you said, some girls just don't ask and as long as they are happy with the overall experience will never bring up the subject of dollar amounts at all.

[QUOTE=Lioil;3191937]Good strategy. But how do you guarantee that date is what it is? Do you just get down to "lets have date at a hotel" and they get it? I mean it has to be pretty obvious that they know what's expected right? I am still fresh in this game but it seems the one I talk to always wants to meet somewhere to chat but that could cost a bit then not get anywhere. Should I just bypass those and hit on those who directly just go for it?[/QUOTE]Here are a few basic steps:

1. After you connect online, move off SA and to text / email ASAP.

2. Here's a sample first full email I send:

Hey Sunshine,

I'm your Daddy.

Well, I don't mean that literally! Just having some fun with the tagline in your profile. You asked for my picture so here I am. On S. A. My moniker is. But I don't dress like this all the time -- only for business.

I am a business executive, older, not aggressive, and definitely not clingy. So how can I see you when I come to Dallas?

Thanks,

Cigar.

3. It's her turn once you send that email and a photo of yourself. Sorry, but at some point you got to take a leap of faith and let them see what you look like. If she responds then you move to the next step. If she is starting to text / email you favorably you must quickly get to the point:

4. Hello,

Thanks for getting back to me! I thought it would be a good idea to if you're comfortable with what I'm looking for. So. Hope this doesn't make you blush, but here goes: I am interested in short encounters of 60-90 minutes that offers full sex in multiple positions that include missionary, doggie and in front of a mirror if one is available. My sexual interests are pretty standard: lots of oral without a condom, masturbation while looking at you as you pose in multiple positions, dirty talk and vaginal intercourse with a condom. I will offer you an application of self-dissolving contraceptive film in an unopened box for extra protection -- because I actually care about you as a person!

I'm not interested in anything that hurts or humiliates, anal, cumming on the face, or any of that. You needn't worry about me asking to take pictures, submitting reviews of our encounter on websites, or violating your privacy in any way. My dirty talk is just the basics -- no B-word or W-word, but everything else erotic.

About the only other kink I have is watching the lady pee on the potty. How does this match up with what you are comfortable with? What are your bra and panty sizes? Your figure is outstanding and I love your photos.

Peace and blessings.

Me.

5. If she responds to the first two emails then it's time to cut to the chase. I'll respond later with one or two of the emails I use to close the deal. Happy trails.

[QUOTE=Graham111;3191219]I would get distance as fast as possible. Assuming you intend to stay with SO. You will find another SB a hell of a lot easier than a divorce or replacement of the SO! To me it's playing with fire.[/QUOTE]I agree with Graham. If you suspect it might get to an extortion situation, you need to get distance ASAP. Try pulling back a little, and see how she reacts. If she starts to get psycho, then you know.

Also, I doubt you have much leverage on her other than reporting the extortion to the police. If she had nudes on her SA profile, then she'll probably not care about a BJ video being posted.

The anticipation of waiting for a brand new 20 year old babe, who's in the uber on the way over right now.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3191476]T
You said maybe it's just her sense of humor. Personally I think girls with poor joke choices make very annoying conversation partners, but that's subjective. You could always try fighting fire with fire, and counter her bad humor attempt with another bad humor attempt. For example, if she's grinning ear to ear and says "what if I say give me $3 k or I tell your wife?!" Just counter that by grinning ear to ear and say "well I'd say you better spend it quick because its probably only a matter of time before you disappear and nobody hears from you again". Make sure it's clear you're joking too, being facetious to match her attempt at same, but also be sure and study her facial expression as you tell her that, as it will be a satisfying moment that you want to reflect on.
[/QUOTE]Much better going 'positive'.

I'd answer that with " mmmm I 'd kinda hate that. Because she would want to join in and she is not really good at 3 somes, but go ahead if you want to. And you probably ruin the fun we have. Shall I dial her now? " works like a charm.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;3194120]The anticipation of waiting for a brand new 20 year old babe, who's in the uber on the way over right now.[/QUOTE]How good was that thrill ride?

[QUOTE=EuroInCincy;3194739]Much better going 'positive'. I'd answer that with " mmmm I 'd kinda hate that. Because she would want to join in and she is not really good at 3 somes, but go ahead if you want to. And you probably ruin the fun we have. Shall I dial her now? " works like a charm.[/QUOTE]Depends on the individual responding, the girl, the vibe between the two up until that point, etc. What works well for one doesn't necessarily work for another. There is a certain category of girl that would perceive that comeback as weakness unless you're actually prepared to dial. They'll say "yeah, dial her. Or give me your phone and let me dial her". Then what? You're fucked at that point because you don't have the balls to follow through (well most married guys wouldn't at least) and she just called your bluff, showing you who wears the pants in the matter. At that point you're worse off than if you'd just said nothing.

The line I offered cuts the head off the cobra right away in most cases. But yes your approach would work well with some girls too. It's something to be played by ear, and put in the context of each's own repoire with a particular girl. Hopefully nobody reading this right now is copying down lines verbatim and just using them indiscriminately.

I once had a buddy that would go bar hopping with me. He was a good looking-ish guy that had no game for some reason. I would end up scoring a nice one-night stand almost every time, and he kept hounding me to "teach him my pickup lines". He assumed I had some because he would literally watch me approach girls, and watching their face light up from from a distance it looked like I was saying something extremely well-thought out. But I wasn't, I was going in completely unprepared and making it all up as I went along, starting from the moment I made eye contact with her. Point being is that there never has been a forumla or a set of rules for properly handling women and there never will be. Canned lines are poor man's game. They might work in some cases, but not on the 8-10 girls.

He would ask me to repeat what I said to her, and sometimes I told him verbatim and he wouldn't believe me that it were that simple. I told him it wasn't what I said as much as how I said it, and the fact that how I did was a response to the social vibe the girl was putting out at the time. Mostly just simple smalltalk, it's more about tailoring the delivery to the current situation. To this day he doesn't believe me that I never use canned pickup lines. I tried a few times back in the 80's and it only led to awkward moments. Everything else is practice, practice, practice, and be ready to improvise and quickly do what's best for the particular girl and particular context. There is no set pattern or formula to fall back to every time, only the skill to work through any situation that comes from practice.

Most of girls I play with are looking for new experiences with someone that can teach & guide all whilst making them comfortable while doing so!

[QUOTE=CigarFL;3191958]Here are a few basic steps:

1. After you connect online, move off SA and to text / email ASAP.

2. Here's a sample first full email I send:

Hey Sunshine,

I'm your Daddy.

Well, I don't mean that literally! Just having some fun with the tagline in your profile. You asked for my picture so here I am. On S. A. My moniker is. But I don't dress like this all the time -- only for business.

I am a business executive, older, not aggressive, and definitely not clingy. So how can I see you when I come to Dallas?

Thanks,

Cigar.

3. It's her turn once you send that email and a photo of yourself. Sorry, but at some point you got to take a leap of faith and let them see what you look like. If she responds then you move to the next step. If she is starting to text / email you favorably you must quickly get to the point:

4. Hello,

Thanks for getting back to me! I thought it would be a good idea to if you're comfortable with what I'm looking for. So. Hope this doesn't make you blush, but here goes: I am interested in short encounters of 60-90 minutes that offers full sex in multiple positions that include missionary, doggie and in front of a mirror if one is available. My sexual interests are pretty standard: lots of oral without a condom, masturbation while looking at you as you pose in multiple positions, dirty talk and vaginal intercourse with a condom. I will offer you an application of self-dissolving contraceptive film in an unopened box for extra protection -- because I actually care about you as a person!

I'm not interested in anything that hurts or humiliates, anal, cumming on the face, or any of that. You needn't worry about me asking to take pictures, submitting reviews of our encounter on websites, or violating your privacy in any way. My dirty talk is just the basics -- no B-word or W-word, but everything else erotic.

About the only other kink I have is watching the lady pee on the potty. How does this match up with what you are comfortable with? What are your bra and panty sizes? Your figure is outstanding and I love your photos.

Peace and blessings.

Me.

5. If she responds to the first two emails then it's time to cut to the chase. I'll respond later with one or two of the emails I use to close the deal. Happy trails.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CigarFL;3194874]How good was that thrill ride?[/QUOTE]It was awesome. She's a little thicker than I go for, but a 20 year old can carry it well. She was nervous at first, so we sat and chatted for a while until she was comfortable. I eased her into the FC and we had a lot of fun. I found out she had never used a vibrator so I introduced her to Mr. Magic wand, it was a big hit. I finally had to kick her out after about 5 hours, she was showing no signs of being ready to leave. We never discussed allowance, she never asked, at the end I slipped 120 into her purse. She has already texted me a couple of times since, so we'll be getting together again soon.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;3196393]We never discussed allowance, she never asked, at the end I slipped 120 into her purse. She has already texted me a couple of times since, so we'll be getting together again soon.[/QUOTE]You got a bargain. I'm always looking to spend $100-$120 and get a great performance. Looks like you nailed it. Nice work.

What's making girls suddenly desperate on SA? Full moon? I don't have an active membership and I have had many messages coming in. Some new people, some old. I've tried to go without a paid membership b / c it can be so distracting, but the messages and photos I've been sent are sure intriguing - I may need to pay to read them.