"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3128799]Why? If your talking to someone you should be able to seal the deal if she is considering it. I don't undetstand what viewing a profile is going to accomplish if your already talking.[/QUOTE]Because we may not be already talking and because she's a civi, doesn't know me from Adam, and her mind may or may not be thinking along the SB / SD paradigm, I want to be able to plant the seed, and have a way for her to get back to me if she's interested, like what Fish was talking about awhile back, but delivered in a more organized, professional way.

I've been on SA for about two weeks straight now and I haven't been able to set up even a single M&G. Out of several dozen pokes, only had a few responses and then they went dark. And I've already covered everyone in my geographical area who matches the profile of the kind of person I'm looking for, so there's no more fish in the barrel, so to speak, LOL. My guess is most of these SBs are well seasoned and are looking for the cream of the crop, guys with a seven-figure net worth OR young, tall & handsome, which isn't me. I don't know how you guys pull it off, but SA's been a total bust for me so far, so I wanted to try alternative approaches and strategies with the same ultimate goal. My theory is that I'll have better results working on an amicable civi, versus a SB who has a dozen seven-figure guys chasing after her. At least that's the theory. I haven't gotten to the proof or the pudding yet. I'm just looking for the over mitts.

[QUOTE=Assaholic;3130220]Because we may not be already talking and because she's a civi, doesn't know me from Adam, and her mind may or may not be thinking along the SB / SD paradigm, I want to be able to plant the seed, and have a way for her to get back to me if she's interested, like what Fish was talking about awhile back, but delivered in a more organized, professional way.

I've been on SA for about two weeks straight now and I haven't been able to set up even a single M&G. Out of several dozen pokes, only had a few responses and then they went dark. And I've already covered everyone in my geographical area who matches the profile of the kind of person I'm looking for, so there's no more fish in the barrel, so to speak, LOL. My guess is most of these SBs are well seasoned and are looking for the cream of the crop, guys with a seven-figure net worth OR young, tall & handsome, which isn't me. I don't know how you guys pull it off, but SA's been a total bust for me so far, so I wanted to try alternative approaches and strategies with the same ultimate goal. My theory is that I'll have better results working on an amicable civi, versus a SB who has a dozen seven-figure guys chasing after her. At least that's the theory. I haven't gotten to the proof or the pudding yet. I'm just looking for the over mitts.[/QUOTE]I think your experience sounds average. Don't get discouraged. It's like any kind of dating, really. There's no way you can be everything for everyone. You have to try a lot to get one, but you only need one. There is one dynamic, the dom / sub, that seems common in the bowl, and we can guess why that might be. Guys who play that likely do better than average. That's not me though. I'm just a nice guy. I have a beautiful, hot 21 YO baby now, and I am a 61 YO bald guy. She loves our sex, it's top notch, and we also have a strong connection outside the FC. It has taken me since June to find her (I have had a few other babies, of varying attractiveness). You can play the 'nice' card, or whatever card you have. I encourage you to be you. There isn't much of an alternative.

I have done some experimenting w / those $ parameters on the profile. I'd bet some girls don't care much, thinking they just want to know what the sugar is. I did have one reply that I couldn't afford her expectations (I guess she said high, that 5-10 K / mo amount, and I listed my income as 200 K) and block me. Initially I put my net worth several times lower than real, fearing a big # would attract true gold-diggers. I was frustrated I wasn't getting replies from the real 9's and 10's I aspired to, and I upped that to a few times higher than my net worth. Yeah, I think I got more replies. You can't claim to be worth 10 mil and drive a chevy, but give yourself some enhancement if you think that's the problem. You only have to come up w / the sugar one time to at least break your maiden in the bowl. This isn't a cheap hobby, though. My two babies were / are getting 2 K / mo, and then there's the overhead of hotels because I have a SO and they aren't able to host. Throw in champagne one girl wanted or the gift cards that make the other's panties cream, and it's easily another thousand. These are high quality Cali babies, to be sure, but those are the wages of sin. Demographically, if you want white or asian teens and 20's girls, you are going to be paying thorugh the nose. If you can find a nice Hispanic girl, or hunt outside major metro areas, where sugar is a little less, you might hit paydirt.

I visited ATX almost exactly a year ago and found it to be a gold mine.

Word of caution -- the tech industry has driven up expectations of many SBs. Guys with more money than sense like to throw it around.

For a two night visit I had no problem lining up 6 confirmed fuck fests, pending approval over coffee or drinks. I'm older so I targeted the late 20's to MILF crowd. My ideal arrangement is an overnight slumber party, 3-4 rounds, 3 hole access, up to $600 for the experience.

Ended up night 1 with a "Spokesmodel" with the most ridiculous body I've ever seen naked. 8 face, 10 body, 10 performance. Loved CIM. $500.

Had several other options, but my plans changed so I arranged a nooner with someone I think was just a UTR provider. She hosted in a messy apartment and was a yoga instructor and real "gem head". Totally open and kinky, nothing off limits. $300.

Lots of CoEds in the market -- not just UT but SFA -- and recent grads.

Can't wait to got back.

[QUOTE=Assaholic;3130220]Because we may not be already talking and because she's a civi, doesn't know me from Adam, and her mind may or may not be thinking along the SB / SD paradigm, I want to be able to plant the seed, and have a way for her to get back to me if she's interested, like what Fish was talking about awhile back, but delivered in a more organized, professional way.

I've been on SA for about two weeks straight now and I haven't been able to set up even a single M&G. Out of several dozen pokes, only had a few responses and then they went dark. And I've already covered everyone in my geographical area who matches the profile of the kind of person I'm looking for, so there's no more fish in the barrel, so to speak, LOL. My guess is most of these SBs are well seasoned and are looking for the cream of the crop, guys with a seven-figure net worth OR young, tall & handsome, which isn't me. I don't know how you guys pull it off, but SA's been a total bust for me so far, so I wanted to try alternative approaches and strategies with the same ultimate goal. My theory is that I'll have better results working on an amicable civi, versus a SB who has a dozen seven-figure guys chasing after her. At least that's the theory. I haven't gotten to the proof or the pudding yet. I'm just looking for the over mitts.[/QUOTE]Don't give up buddy! Get creative! I have a cache of funbunnies to play with. They all want or are curious about the experience I have to offer in my playground! I like 'them thin and petite over 115 is too much for my wants and deires. Its not. All about the $ ! I'm in my 40's, respectful yest super kinky, fit, blessed. I have givin' less than $1000 cash in over a year on SA. I have bought plane tix, nice hotels m dinners concerts vacations. I do give nice gifts that generally haven't cost me a cent. Postly clothing & toys that I get to enjoy seeing and playing with them. It's there. I live in a small mountain town BTW. I travel for my career. That helps but I have girls from all over north america and a few euro countries. I do live in a very desirable location that everyone loves to visit. That helps. Happy hunting!

So, I just finished my paid month on SA. Here is what I found.

I had an ok number of responses to me. I found 3 UTRs, 1 PYT not really looking for much money. 1 very hot MILF, but want more of an relationship than I could give. 4 girls flaked before the m&g, oddly 2 were from the same college? 1 GPS, I'm a little sad because of this one, we really click at the m&g, but money was the issue. 1 PYT I met, but couldn't find the the time to seal the deal. 1 said she was not interested after the m&g, but I think it was more of a money thing. I have one more who is stringing me along via text. If I can work this one out, I think she will be a lot of fun.

Of the UTRs, 1 was a starfish, 1 had a smell, 1 is one of the hottest girls I have ever banged, but she is over an hour from my place. Seeing her again, soon. And NO I'm not sharing. If you're on SA and near her, you should not have any issues finding her.

If what you're doing isn't working, set up a new profile. Use a different approach. You know what got the conversations started, you know what made them go dark. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result won't work.

Presumably you haven't been using a public profile pic of course.

[QUOTE=Assaholic;3130220]Because we may not be already talking and because she's a civi, doesn't know me from Adam, and her mind may or may not be thinking along the SB / SD paradigm, I want to be able to plant the seed, and have a way for her to get back to me if she's interested, like what Fish was talking about awhile back, but delivered in a more organized, professional way.

I've been on SA for about two weeks straight now and I haven't been able to set up even a single M&G. Out of several dozen pokes, only had a few responses and then they went dark. And I've already covered everyone in my geographical area who matches the profile of the kind of person I'm looking for, so there's no more fish in the barrel, so to speak, LOL. My guess is most of these SBs are well seasoned and are looking for the cream of the crop, guys with a seven-figure net worth OR young, tall & handsome, which isn't me. I don't know how you guys pull it off, but SA's been a total bust for me so far, so I wanted to try alternative approaches and strategies with the same ultimate goal. My theory is that I'll have better results working on an amicable civi, versus a SB who has a dozen seven-figure guys chasing after her. At least that's the theory. I haven't gotten to the proof or the pudding yet. I'm just looking for the over mitts.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3130252]I think your experience sounds average. Don't get discouraged. It's like any kind of dating, really. There's no way you can be everything for everyone. You have to try a lot to get one, but you only need one. There is one dynamic, the dom / sub, that seems common in the bowl, and we can guess why that might be. Guys who play that likely do better than average. That's not me though. I'm just a nice guy. I have a beautiful, hot 21 YO baby now, and I am a 61 YO bald guy. She loves our sex, it's top notch, and we also have a strong connection outside the FC. It has taken me since June to find her (I have had a few other babies, of varying attractiveness). You can play the 'nice' card, or whatever card you have. I encourage you to be you. There isn't much of an alternative.

I have done some experimenting w / those $ parameters on the profile. I'd bet some girls don't care much, thinking they just want to know what the sugar is. I did have one reply that I couldn't afford her expectations (I guess she said high, that 5-10 K / mo amount, and I listed my income as 200 K) and block me. Initially I put my net worth several times lower than real, fearing a big # would attract true gold-diggers. I was frustrated I wasn't getting replies from the real 9's and 10's I aspired to, and I upped that to a few times higher than my net worth. Yeah, I think I got more replies. You can't claim to be worth 10 mil and drive a chevy, but give yourself some enhancement if you think that's the problem. You only have to come up w / the sugar one time to at least break your maiden in the bowl. This isn't a cheap hobby, though. My two babies were / are getting 2 K / mo, and then there's the overhead of hotels because I have a SO and they aren't able to host. Throw in champagne one girl wanted or the gift cards that make the other's panties cream, and it's easily another thousand. These are high quality Cali babies, to be sure, but those are the wages of sin. Demographically, if you want white or asian teens and 20's girls, you are going to be paying thorugh the nose. If you can find a nice Hispanic girl, or hunt outside major metro areas, where sugar is a little less, you might hit paydirt.[/QUOTE]Thanks FFA for the words of encouragement and wisdom. I'll try to tweak my profile as you suggested, although it really goes against my nature to pretend to be someone I'm not, but at least for the sake of science, it may be worth a try. Just for the record, my idea of domination is winning 5 sets in a game of checkers. ;.

I'm confident that once I get my foot in the door and get to the meet and greet stage, I'll be able to convey my better qualities. I've rarely had a problem doing that with women face to face. I have had a few SBs before, who came from the AMP realm, not SA. Those arrangements all worked out really, really well for both sides, and some lasted for years. Those SBs all seemed super happy every time we met and it gave me the motivation and confidence to excel at other aspects of my life.

Most were students, around 19-21, mature for their age, ambitious, and exceptionally intelligent. And it cost me around 1 k a month OTD, which was quite manageable from my perspective, and I only need one SB at a time to keep me emotionally and hormonally balanced. So I'm hoping to replace my last SB, who moved out of state, with someone who has similar qualities. As you suspected, I'm only interested in Asians. A character flaw, or whatever label you want give it. I know. So that does limit my choices considerably.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;3130950]If what you're doing isn't working, set up a new profile. Use a different approach. You know what got the conversations started, you know what made them go dark. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result won't work.

Presumably you haven't been using a public profile pic of course.[/QUOTE]Thanks Fish. Problem is I never got to the conversation stage and I don't know what made them go dark. Ex: Me: Hey, I noticed on your profile says you liked XYZ. I love XYZ. Would you like to have coffee together this weekend? Her: No answer (Mesasge read, check. Profile viewed, check.

I'll ride the SA wagon for another month or so to see if anything comes of it. If not, I'm hoping to take a page out of your book to see if I can turn an ordinary civi into an SB. To be honest, this is my preference anyway, because in my area at least, the quality of SA girls is very sub-par in my opinion. Almost every day, in restaurants, shopping places, everywhere, I see ordinary civis who would abslutely crush the best of the best on SA without even trying, and I'm trying to work out a system or methodology to set the agenda to "turn" these ladies.

No, all my pictures are unique and nowhere else on the internet. That said, I'm intending to experiment with changing my current pics with ones that make me look more, well, affluent. The ones I have up now are of me on an ordinary day wearing work clothes or jeans or some such and I'm not leaning on a Bentley either.

[QUOTE=Assaholic;3131205]Thanks Fish. Problem is I never got to the conversation stage and I don't know what made them go dark. Ex: Me: Hey, I noticed on your profile says you liked XYZ. I love XYZ. Would you like to have coffee together this weekend? Her: No answer (Mesasge read, check. Profile viewed, check.

I'll ride the SA wagon for another month or so to see if anything comes of it. If not, I'm hoping to take a page out of your book to see if I can turn an ordinary civi into an SB. To be honest, this is my preference anyway, because in my area at least, the quality of SA girls is very sub-par in my opinion. Almost every day, in restaurants, shopping places, everywhere, I see ordinary civis who would abslutely crush the best of the best on SA without even trying, and I'm trying to work out a system or methodology to set the agenda to "turn" these ladies.

No, all my pictures are unique and nowhere else on the internet. That said, I'm intending to experiment with changing my current pics with ones that make me look more, well, affluent. The ones I have up now are of me on an ordinary day wearing
work clothes or jeans or some such and I'm not leaning on a Bentley either.[/QUOTE]K I'm not sure your age or the target age your going for. IF your shooting for 18-22 year olds be prepared for no or little response because they operate on their own timetable. Also IF your alot older pics just hurt you in this age group. Suggesting meeting in your first message is a no no. After they respond to a message and you developed a conversation then its time to ask to meet but its better if its their idea. Now I'm really confused about turning a civi into a sb. If you have the game to try this its a head scratcher to your online game not working. Now the question is why convert? Just be a good boyfriend who helps with a bill every once in awhile. That would make her very happy.

I'm 64 no pic on profile with a description of exactly what I'm looking for. I don't target the kids, usually 30-45 age range and have all the response I can handle at 64 LOL. Now occasionally a young one is interested. I've had from 22 upwards to 48. Oh and I've been turned down by several once they get my pics but my thought is on to the next one.

Well I was on there as a paid member for 3 months! Just kinda over that whole thing. Just my 2 cents!

[QUOTE=Assaholic;3131205]Thanks Fish. Problem is I never got to the conversation stage and I don't know what made them go dark. Ex: Me: Hey, I noticed on your profile says you liked XYZ. I love XYZ. Would you like to have coffee together this weekend? Her: No answer (Mesasge read, check. Profile viewed, check.

I'll ride the SA wagon for another month or so to see if anything comes of it. If not, I'm hoping to take a page out of your book to see if I can turn an ordinary civi into an SB. To be honest, this is my preference anyway, because in my area at least, the quality of SA girls is very sub-par in my opinion. Almost every day, in restaurants, shopping places, everywhere, I see ordinary civis who would abslutely crush the best of the best on SA without even trying, and I'm trying to work out a system or methodology to set the agenda to "turn" these ladies.

No, all my pictures are unique and nowhere else on the internet. That said, I'm intending to experiment with changing my current pics with ones that make me look more, well, affluent. The ones I have up now are of me on an ordinary day wearing work clothes or jeans or some such and I'm not leaning on a Bentley either.[/QUOTE]There are different views for what we want to do on this. I believe JZLizard also says he has photos he shares that are him doing / being ordinary. I can see this would tend to keep the sugar down, which is a virtue. If you want to hit some high-quality pussy (your definition. Beauty, age, skills, body), or even just get to first base, I don't think that's the best idea. Some fraction of the sugaring population, perhaps the one you're targeting, is aiming for a fantasy. SDs are living the fantasy that these hot young chicks would actually be our GFs if we weren't paying them. SBs are living the fantasy that they have found a rich man who would let them live a life of luxurious leisure. There seems to be another group that wants to get experiences one could not with someone in civi dating (kinky sex, for example), on both sides.

I would advise you to try to look more upscale. There is that great John Molloy book "Dress for Success" that goes into all the ingrained cultural reasons why it matters what we wear. There is nothing that makes a man, any man, look better than a suit. A famous feminist writer even wrote a book extolling its virtues. The suit represents male power, and recall that Henry Kissinger dated all kinds of hot pussy (Jill St. John!) even though he is a creepy little troll, and said that power was the ultimate aphrodisiac (well, at least for one part of the female population). My one and only full personal photo that I give to POTs (by email, mostly. I rarely have it on SA, b / c I fear hacks ala Ashley Madison) is a mirror selfie wearing my favorite blue Italian suit, no tie (need a cool, hip look). I have friends in the bowl who are in their 40's and pretty handsome I'd wager, and they can likely play a little differently, but if you're 60+ like me (though I advertise 56 on SA. I don't think POTs can tell fine detail, but there clearly would be negative connotations of my real age), power may be the card we have to play. Power comes w / money, of course, and as I've said before I'm likely not getting the cheapest sugar of the SDs on here, but I'm not enjoying it any less. My profile photo on SA isn't me but someone who looks kinda like me, wearing a very nice suit, and cut off at about the nose, so no one could ever complain that I posted a false photo. No one has.

Hancock and FFA hit all the bases. I want to stress, do not push the m&g early. It smells of desperation. Unless you're targeting Utrs or pros, then anything that remotely comes off as desperate will chase the fish away.

Use flaterring pics that look like you. I didn't realize that there was a school of thought out there that advocated for sending pics that were not flattering. I guess to each his own, but most ladies I know do want to be with someone who is physically attractive. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but as with the above, unless you're tracking Utrs or pros, you'll want to send pictures that put you in the best light. Hit the gym for a few months, shed 15 lbs, and it will make a difference. Or at least it has in my case. Just as important, you need to use pics that are of you, or don't send any at all. Nothing kills a m&g faster than if you send pics of someone who is not you, and much more attractive. I hear that one from pots all the time. The only way to save yourself there is if you have cash to burn.

[QUOTE=Assaholic;3131205]Thanks Fish. Problem is I never got to the conversation stage and I don't know what made them go dark. Ex: Me: Hey, I noticed on your profile says you liked XYZ. I love XYZ. Would you like to have coffee together this weekend? Her: No answer (Mesasge read, check. Profile viewed, check.

I'll ride the SA wagon for another month or so to see if anything comes of it. If not, I'm hoping to take a page out of your book to see if I can turn an ordinary civi into an SB. To be honest, this is my preference anyway, because in my area at least, the quality of SA girls is very sub-par in my opinion. Almost every day, in restaurants, shopping places, everywhere, I see ordinary civis who would abslutely crush the best of the best on SA without even trying, and I'm trying to work out a system or methodology to set the agenda to "turn" these ladies.

No, all my pictures are unique and nowhere else on the internet. That said, I'm intending to experiment with changing my current pics with ones that make me look more, well, affluent. The ones I have up now are of me on an ordinary day wearing work clothes or jeans or some such and I'm not leaning on a Bentley either.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3131637]There are different views for what we want to do on this. I believe JZLizard also says he has photos he shares that are him doing / being ordinary. I can see this would tend to keep the sugar down, which is a virtue. If you want to hit some high-quality pussy (your definition. Beauty, age, skills, body), or even just get to first base, I don't think that's the best idea. [/QUOTE]I might explain the purpose of "normal" photos. It is based on observations I made once civy dating on the Internet became popular and the concepts can be applied to any form of online dating, not just sugaring.

Those who have spent any time at all with online dating (sugaring or otherwise) know that whenever you meet someone in person for the first time, there is one of three possible outcomes on first visual impression. Either they look exactly like their pics, better than their pics, or worse than their pics.

The first two possible outcomes are good, the third is not. It means that some level of disappointment will occur at the M&G if you are looking for a certain type of girl. So, if you send someone pictures that do not accurately represent you, then the odds are that her visual impression of you is going to be downgraded from whatever state of mind she was in when she agreed to meet in person in the first place.

The extent to which this matters depends on many things, including where she falls on the "spectrum". I've talked in the past about my vision of a spectrum, with streetwalkers at the left side of the scale and women that preserve their virginity at the far right of it. More in the middle but going from left to right, would be escorts, then UTR girls, then Nando SBs, then true SBs, then civy girls that would never consider taking money in exchange for sex, etc. You get the idea. And obviously no girl is perfectly categorized, it's just a way to visualize where they fall in the big scheme of things. My own definition of a quality girl is one that leans more to the right side of the scale (and I should also say that my positional choice of left or right here has absolutely no political connotation, so swap left for right in this example if you prefer).

So, what I noticed over a couple of decades of online dating is that the farther they are on the left of the spectrum in my example above, the less susceptible they are to caring about any potential discrepancy between initially traded photos and the appearance of the person when they meet. It's not rocket science, girls that are more in it for the paycheck are going to care a lot less about whether they were cat-fished or mislead. Escorts don't give a shit what you look or smell like. An SB that is sizing you up in a way that expresses genuine sexual interest will certainly care.

Therefore the key to all of this is to simply NEVER DISAPPOINT AT THE M&G (assuming you're aiming for girls on the more quality side of the spectrum above). Some might say "well if I don't take 100 photos and send her the best 2, she will never meet me in the first place". Its important to understand that concept. If that statement is true, it is an indication of aiming too high (indication you either should lower your standard or prepare for more challenging searching). Luring them to a M&G with a non-representative and overly flattering photo is only going to scare them away once they actually meet you, unless they are only in it for money. And that's fine if that's the kind of girl you want.

Now let's look at that from another angle. Let's say that an SD hits up 20 girls but sends them very realistic photos. Let's say right away 12 of those never respond. Of the 8 that do, all but 2 or 3 of them do nothing but ask how much their allowance is going to be. What has happened here? The SD has just put the power of realistic photos to work for himself -- he has successfully eliminated about 17-18 timewasting pieces of work that would probably end up meeting but not following him to the FC, or making ridiculous money demands. The 2-3 girls that remain are the ones he is most likely to have the most fun with in the FC later anyway.

So let's just say the photos I send are designed to scare off the squeamish. LOL. Let's say a guy that looks like Danny DeVito is sitting there hitting up girls that look like Melanie Iglasias, but he's sending her pics of himself, which are really some guy that looks like Brad Pitt. What's going to happen when they meet? Assuming she's anything less than an escort, she's going to feel mislead, betrayed, and probably not much like fucking him (probably more like she wants to throw Papa from the train). I'm neither a Danny DeVito or a Brad Pitt, its just an illustrative example.

So part of my success going from M&G to the FC has been simply not misleading girls. Let them decide if I'm their type or not. There is no accounting for taste, some girls that aren't even that good looking never write back after I send pics, while others that are true stunners seem to have an instantly positive reaction, gushing about how handsome they think I am. THOSE are the ones that turn into good dates for me. Sending realistic and down-to-earth photos is one of the keys to filtering out girls who do not possess that genuine sexual attraction that I am seeking.

And some might say send realistic pics of you looking your best -- and I think that's fine as long as you're getting the results you want. Just know that if you send pics of yourself that are engineered to try to impress her, quality women can usually sense this right away and they see it as a vulnerability and display of insecurity. They know good and well that the Elon Musks and Mark Zuckerbergs (I. E. Real billionaires) of the modern world show up at important events wearing hoodies and sneakers if they feel like it. It's not 1950 where anyone reasonably intelligent is deluded into believing the cost of a suit is an indication of net worth anymore (unless they are really shallow and daft, or just a money-chasing ho).

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;3132331]Hancock and FFA hit all the bases. I want to stress, do not push the m&g early. It smells of desperation. Unless you're targeting Utrs or pros, then anything that remotely comes off as desperate will chase the fish away.

Use flaterring pics that look like you. I didn't realize that there was a school of thought out there that advocated for sending pics that were not flattering. I guess to each his own, but most ladies I know do want to be with someone who is physically attractive. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but as with the above, unless you're tracking Utrs or pros, you'll want to send pictures that put you in the best light. Hit the gym for a few months, shed 15 lbs, and it will make a difference. Or at least it has in my case. Just as important, you need to use pics that are of you, or don't send any at all. Nothing kills a m&g faster than if you send pics of someone who is not you, and much more attractive. I hear that one from pots all the time. The only way to save yourself there is if you have cash to burn.[/QUOTE]I guess I'd add one other thing. It is likely the case that each local 'market' for SBs is different, w / cultural preferences I couldn't begin to fathom. You may need to work that out for yourself in your bowl, and a couple of weeks may not be sufficient. So, as Fish said, there is some experimentation involved, and he recommends his Groundhog Day scenario, where he creates a new SA profile to go back to POTs he failed w / to try new techniques. You might not have to do that literally, but just switch around your profile, photos, initial contact message, etc. , until you get something that is working for your targets, and also your particular strengths. I'd guess that most of us would not be playing in the bowl if we didn't think the women were going to enjoy sex w / us, and some tasteful way to say at some stage that couldn't hurt. However, you indicate that if you can talk to a woman directly you seem to be able to close the deal, so I am guessing you know the right way to communicate that. Others (Hollywood Guy) target subs specifially and makes it clear to them in his contacts that they are going to get high quality kinky sex. To each his own. You just want to offer as much as you can that isn't $.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3132918]I guess I'd add one other thing. It is likely the case that each local 'market' for SBs is different, w / cultural preferences I couldn't begin to fathom. You may need to work that out for yourself in your bowl, and a couple of weeks may not be sufficient. So, as Fish said, there is some experimentation involved, and he recommends his Groundhog Day scenario, where he creates a new SA profile to go back to POTs he failed w / to try new techniques. You might not have to do that literally, but just switch around your profile, photos, initial contact message, etc. , until you get something that is working for your targets, and also your particular strengths. I'd guess that most of us would not be playing in the bowl if we didn't think the women were going to enjoy sex w / us, and some tasteful way to say at some stage that couldn't hurt. However, you indicate that if you can talk to a woman directly you seem to be able to close the deal, so I am guessing you know the right way to communicate that. Others (Hollywood Guy) target subs specifially and makes it clear to them in his contacts that they are going to get high quality kinky sex. To each his own. You just want to offer as much as you can that isn't $.[/QUOTE]Girls thst have several different profiles get crucified by the guys. Guys that create alternate profiles arent any better IMHO. A catfish is a catfish. Really have no idea why one that isn't interested is such an ego buster one would have to create xtra profiles. Jeez just move on, your paying for pussy, move to the next one. As for thinking the girls enjoy the sex some do, some don't. Don't forget your payi g them. If the payment is good most are staying because of the money, not because your great in the sack. When that idea enters your thought process cut the money off and see if they still sucking your cock for nothing. My profile states specifically that I'm seeking a sub, I don't have to waste time texting back and forth because the girls know right off the bat what I'm looking for. Profile has stated that for a few years and is quite a time saver. This isn't rocket science that everyone seems to want to make it.