"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

I notice SA has raised it's prices since I upgraded last time. I have to hand it to this guy, he's developed a gold mine.

So without going into too much detail I saw a profile with pics of a provider I have seen several times. I reached out to this person to see how different the experience would between a provider vs. SB. Well not really sure there was much of a difference. She wanted the same price as she charges as a provider. When I asked what was the difference said that we would go out on a date, dinner and anything. However she expected to go to the FC every time we met. So basically it is the same a provider but spending more money on them because of the actual date. What do you all think? You spend more money in this situation. For me part of the fun of a SB is going on dates. Sometimes the dates are just that with no visit to the FC until you work up to that point. I've had SB who spent the night and I didn't pay anything. Just curious as to what some of you think about this.

[QUOTE=Ltnric;3123205]So without going into too much detail I saw a profile with pics of a provider I have seen several times. I reached out to this person to see how different the experience would between a provider vs. SB. Well not really sure there was much of a difference. She wanted the same price as she charges as a provider. When I asked what was the difference said that we would go out on a date, dinner and anything. However she expected to go to the FC every time we met. So basically it is the same a provider but spending more money on them because of the actual date. What do you all think? You spend more money in this situation. For me part of the fun of a SB is going on dates. Sometimes the dates are just that with no visit to the FC until you work up to that point. I've had SB who spent the night and I didn't pay anything. Just curious as to what some of you think about this.[/QUOTE]All I can say is that yes, "dating" them is the key to paying little or none. Just be careful about sharing such taboo subjects on net forums, because some folks will be unable to contain their jealousy and attempt to undermine your credibility in hopes of somehow making your life as sad and miserable as theirs. They will fumble around in their own disbelief that such things can actually occur! Blashpemy! How that can be? It doesn't happen to them, therefore it cannot possibly happen to anyone else. Their only recourse is to attempt to focus their attention on YOUR life, studying you and hoping to find things wrong in your every thought, ignoring their own problems, adding underhanded references to you in Every. Single. Post (tm). And why shouldn't their behavior be a pathetic reflection of their pathetic lives? Its who they are. StalkerFanBoi behavior is deeply rooted in their own insecurity, they wear it on their sleeve. Every time the doctor backs off slightly on their psycho-meds or switches them to a new one, we can expect similarly erratic behaviors.

That said, most of the SBs I am involved with involves some form of dating. I go out clubbing and dancing with them, even though I don't necessarily want to in every case. More than once I've sat there in a club table with people 20-30 years younger than me, smiling and pretending that I wouldn't rather be somewhere else, just to be sure I was giving her the night out on the town she was looking for. I don't blink when she orders one expensive mixed drink, takes four sips of it then discards and orders something else. It's not my preference but it pays off in the sense that after she is properly fucked, she is way more focused more on how much fun she had than how much cash she's going to have in her purse later. Its a different way of sugaring than just scurrying them off to a hotel room for an hour or so of paid sex, but it pays big dividends overall in terms of the cash you give her or at least her expectations for same. And overall I do sometimes enjoy the dating aspect, aside from the occasional times when I'm forced to socialize with her friends from high school or whatever. It's not too bad at my current age because I still look a lot younger than I am. When I'm 70 that might get pretty awkward, maybe I will have outgrown this phase by then. I swear to god I think it's becoming more and more accepted by that age group for the girls to have boyfriends older than their dads. Their friends don't seem to blink an eye. Maybe they've got them too?

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3122575] It might be helpful, however, to limit references to those traits / strategies (like a 24" pianist, if you recall that old joke) that are unique to a particular SD.[/QUOTE]I think that's perhaps the most polite way of telling someone to learn to get over their obsession that I've witnessed yet on this forum.

If there's a lesson to be learned from this most recent exchange, I think it is that if someone randomly solicits opinions/advice from the readership (as Enzo did in this case), it is not up to each of us to evaluate, judge, and question the advice he receives from those who tried to contribute to the question and provide their opinion. We have to take individual experiences for what they are and put aside tunnel vision that all of our experiences should align in unison with each other. They just never will, people play the game different way and thus their mileage varies.

We are on the same page brother. Its why I don't write about my ability to grow a second Penis on demand, which generally makes the pots panties drop. After a fc session with me, I try to gift them, but they often regift my allowance back to me. I know it's a gift I've been born with, perhaps one I've mastered over the years. Other brothers can't recreate it, but I'll share my experiences, because I'm a stand up guy.

Sorry for the sarcasm. Like you FFA, I see this board as a means of sharing helpful advice, furthering the discussion of the bowl, and learning about others tactics to see if I can incorporate them into my game.

I don't mind the brag stories since I have told my fair share. Where else can we find an outlet? Not like you can talk about the 20 year old who let you cum in her ass with your brother in law or the team you're supervising on some project.

This board used to be a place where you could ask a question and get great advice. Let's get back there.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3122575]Agreed, Fish. This thread is a mix of a lot of stuff, including a brag sheet + mutual assistance / advice. I don't mind
hearing about other's success and escapades, b / c sometimes there's a lesson in there for me. I also appreciate the genuine support I get (just got, in fact) from my bowl brothers on my own successes. It might be helpful, however, to limit references to those traits / strategies (like a 24" pianist, if you recall that old joke) that are unique to a particular SD.[/QUOTE]

I'll make the observation that I don't think that there are huge differences in the way SDs posting here are approaching or compensating their babies. Part of the difference may be the types of girls we are fishing for. I have come to realize from this thread that a lot of SBs are submissive and a lot of SDs dominant. What fits in better with that than refusing to tell the baby what she's going to get? Actually, it reflects more of a desire to control than to dominate, which are different things with a similar flavor.

For someone like me not naturally dominant, this knowledge has been helpful. I should look for it in POTs and try to play into their interest if I see it, or soft-pedal it if I don't want to go there. For you pros this may seem lame, but I did a test w / a recent baby in the FC, at one point instructing her to stand up, and then sternly commanded (but w / a smile on my face so she wouldn't be offended if she wasn't into dominance / submission games) 'panties on the floor'. I'd guess I'd get some kind of good reaction to that if she was interested in submission.

I also want to endorse JL's principle that there should always be a gift b / c there is no such thing as free pussy. Pay for it with $, or with other things you may not be so able to part with. The idea here reminds me of cold war spy games, where key people in the intelligence community were being targeted to be 'turned' in a moment of weakness. To accept something illicit. Drugs, money, sex, status. From the other side, and once they had been compromised in that way, they were led down the rabbit hole into betraying their country. This is why I think principles of gifting are important. If you take that short term view that 'if I give this POT $ at the M&G, that is sugar down the drain and I didn't get anything for it,' you are missing the point. She has accepted money with the intention to eventually go to the FC w / you (provided you believe that, and she's not just rinsing you) - she's taken the first bite of the apple. She is moving tangibly toward accepting $ for sex, a transaction that is illicit in our society and something most wouldn't like to be public. And *you* know her secret. This gives you a lot of power. She likes the $ of course. That's the whole reason she has put herself into this position. She has taken a small amount and begins to think how nice it would be to have larger amounts. This is all about the grooming of a prospect. Other daddies here have offered other techniques they use to groom them, but given the universal aspect of sugar in the bowl, this should work on most. I like to 'date' SBs because I like to date them, before the FC, but also b / c that time spent w / me makes her (and me) more at ease with the relationship and it is more likely to be consummated. I am putting out $ for them on the date to show them I have assets (in that sense no different from civi dating). But she sees that $ being expended on her behalf, and again it builds a sense of obligation. This is what you want to get her to the FC.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3123278]I think that's perhaps the most polite way of telling someone to learn to get over their obsession that I've witnessed yet on this forum.

If there's a lesson to be learned from this most recent exchange, I think it is that if someone randomly solicits opinions/advice from the readership (as Enzo did in this case), it is not up to each of us to evaluate, judge, and question the advice he receives from those who tried to contribute to the question and provide their opinion. We have to take individual experiences for what they are and put aside tunnel vision that all of our experiences should align in unison with each other. They just never will, people play the game different way and thus their mileage varies.[/QUOTE]My mama taught me manners, JL.

I am just going to sit back and see if she texts me again, I doubt it. She was rather pretty and getting to much "big money talk" from some of those guys. She said "no other guy had a problem with $1200+ per month (in the pre-arrangement talks)". So she will either find her white whale or get burned somehow like I told her by these "big talk guys".

I honestly met only one cool girl that I enjoy spending time with A to Z. I have to tell myself in one way or another, ALL of these girls have problems one way or another. They are NOT normal (atleast the ones I talked to). Most have money problems, then mental problems, then family problems. It's really a second job for me to weed out the ones with too much baggage for me.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3123278]I think that's perhaps the most polite way of telling someone to learn to get over their obsession that I've witnessed yet on this forum.

If there's a lesson to be learned from this most recent exchange, I think it is that if someone randomly solicits opinions/advice from the readership (as Enzo did in this case), it is not up to each of us to evaluate, judge, and question the advice he receives from those who tried to contribute to the question and provide their opinion. We have to take individual experiences for what they are and put aside tunnel vision that all of our experiences should align in unison with each other. They just never will, people play the game different way and thus their mileage varies.[/QUOTE]

Lntric, I definitely agree with you about higher costs, but think that for the most part, you get better service. A few rotations ago, I incorporated a former BP girl into my rotation. She didn't know that I knew she was a former BP girl, but her phone linked to BP ads up and down the east coast. There were higher costs in that I brought a bottle of vodka to our dinner m&g at a byob restaurant, took her out to dinner. When the m&g was coming to an end, she was talking about a per date allowance that was double her hourly BP rate. If I had agreed to it, I would have basically shelled out triple what I would have shelled out had I been a BP client. Of course since I did my research prior, I had already set the allowance ceiling in my mind at what her BP rate was based on her ads from a few months back.

When we finalised discussion of allowance I told her that I normally start at what her BP rate had been and we were off to the fc. I covered the cost of the motel as well. In total, after all costs were factored in, I shelled out double what I would have paid had I simply contacted her off BP.

That being said, she was no longer on BP so that wasn't an option. More importantly, the fc session was hands down better than what I have ever had with a BP girl. The end damage was also less than what I would've shelled out with the tradional college coed sb, who would expect to stay at a premium hotel, and would've insisted on going to a much higher end restaurant. I also found a cheap motel in her area that I've shared with brothers like FTP. Unfortunately most other sbs have simply flat out refused to go there out of fear of bedbugs - which I find odd since they don't seem to be afraid of HIV/AIDS. Go figure?

Not sure how this would translate from a service perspective to a higher end provider, since I've found many of them in general to be good at pretending to like me in general (if they do or not, who knows?) To the extent some hobbyists actually do take escorts out to dinner and functions, and pay an hourly rate on top of expenses, I assume it would be less expensive to find a sb instead.

At the end of the day though, it sounds cheesy, but the bowl does allow you to see if you have a connection with a pot. I'm no longer in my prime where seeing a hot spinner naked gets me hard. I need to feel like the girl I'm banging actually likes me. I've found that the higher end providers are better at pretending while a sb / pot generally won't pretend unless she is a utr / pro.

[QUOTE=Ltnric;3123205]So without going into too much detail I saw a profile with pics of a provider I have seen several times. I reached out to this person to see how different the experience would between a provider vs. SB. Well not really sure there was much of a difference. She wanted the same price as she charges as a provider. When I asked what was the difference said that we would go out on a date, dinner and anything. However she expected to go to the FC every time we met. So basically it is the same a provider but spending more money on them because of the actual date. What do you all think? You spend more money in this situation. For me part of the fun of a SB is going on dates. Sometimes the dates are just that with no visit to the FC until you work up to that point. I've had SB who spent the night and I didn't pay anything. Just curious as to what some of you think about this.[/QUOTE]

I'm waiting for the ipo. Brandon Wade owes a big cut of his profits to Jackson though. If it weren't for this forum, all SA would have is the mindless drivel of the reddit blogs.

[QUOTE=TravelinSD;3123198]I notice SA has raised it's prices since I upgraded last time. I have to hand it to this guy, he's developed a gold mine.[/QUOTE]

Reminds me of a tip HWG posted on this forum years back when I was finding my own way in the bowl.

If you can get someone to say "yes" to something, they're more likely to agree to each successive request. Start out small, then go big. It's a simple sales technique, but hard to implement if you don't want to come off like a used car salesman.

I bet guys who are in sales and trial attorneys do pretty well for themselves in the bowl.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3123522]I'll make the observation that I don't think that there are huge differences in the way SDs posting here are approaching or compensating their babies. Part of the difference may be the types of girls we are fishing for. I have come to realize from this thread that a lot of SBs are submissive and a lot of SDs dominant. What fits in better with that than refusing to tell the baby what she's going to get? Actually, it reflects more of a desire to control than to dominate, which are different things with a similar flavor.

For someone like me not naturally dominant, this knowledge has been helpful. I should look for it in POTs and try to play into their interest if I see it, or soft-pedal it if I don't want to go there. For you pros this may seem lame, but I did a test w / a recent baby in the FC, at one point instructing her to stand up, and then sternly commanded (but w / a smile on my face so she wouldn't be offended if she wasn't into dominance / submission games) 'panties on the floor'. I'd guess I'd get some kind of good reaction to that if she was interested in submission.

I also want to endorse JL's principle that there should always be a gift b / c there is no such thing as free pussy. Pay for it with $, or with other things you may not be so able to part with. The idea here reminds me of cold war spy games, where key people in the intelligence community were being targeted to be 'turned' in a moment of weakness. To accept something illicit. Drugs, money, sex, status. From the other side, and once they had been compromised in that way, they were led down the rabbit hole into betraying their country. This is why I think principles of gifting are important. If you take that short term view that 'if I give this POT $ at the M&G, that is sugar down the drain and I didn't get anything for it,' you are missing the point. She has accepted money with the intention to eventually go to the FC w / you (provided you believe that, and she's not just rinsing you) - she's taken the first bite of the apple. She is moving tangibly toward accepting $ for sex, a transaction that is illicit in our society and something most wouldn't like to be public. And *you* know her secret. This gives you a lot of power. She likes the $ of course. That's the whole reason she has put herself into this position. She has taken a small amount and begins to think how nice it would be to have larger amounts. This is all about the grooming of a prospect. Other daddies here have offered other techniques they use to groom them, but given the universal aspect of sugar in the bowl, this should work on most. I like to 'date' SBs because I like to date them, before the FC, but also b / c that time spent w / me makes her (and me) more at ease with the relationship and it is more likely to be consummated. I am putting out $ for them on the date to show them I have assets (in that sense no different from civi dating). But she sees that $ being expended on her behalf, and again it builds a sense of obligation. This is what you want to get her to the FC.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3123527]My mama taught me manners, JL.[/QUOTE]When I was in middle school, my girlfriend's parents found her diary which among other things described coming to my house and getting screwed in my bedroom. Her livid parents called mine to complain, and at some point during that shit-fight my mother gave me advice that I still remember today but have consistently failed to heed. She claimed nice girls don't do oral sex. I ignored her warning and felt sorry for my dad ever since.

She probably told me to be polite at some point, too. I don't remember.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;3123393]We are on the same page brother. Its why I don't write about my ability to grow a second Penis on demand, which generally makes the pots panties drop. After a fc session with me, I try to gift them, but they often regift my allowance back to me. I know it's a gift I've been born with, perhaps one I've mastered over the years. Other brothers can't recreate it, but I'll share my experiences, because I'm a stand up guy.

Sorry for the sarcasm. Like you FFA, I see this board as a means of sharing helpful advice, furthering the discussion of the bowl, and learning about others tactics to see if I can incorporate them into my game.

I don't mind the brag stories since I have told my fair share. Where else can we find an outlet? Not like you can talk about the 20 year old who let you cum in her ass with your brother in law or the team you're supervising on some project.

This board used to be a place where you could ask a question and get great advice. Let's get back there.[/QUOTE]Woooohooo bravo!

[QUOTE=EnzoAmore;3123777]I am just going to sit back and see if she texts me again, I doubt it. She was rather pretty and getting to much "big money talk" from some of those guys. She said "no other guy had a problem with $1200+ per month (in the pre-arrangement talks)". So she will either find her white whale or get burned somehow like I told her by these "big talk guys".

I honestly met only one cool girl that I enjoy spending time with A to Z. I have to tell myself in one way or another, ALL of these girls have problems one way or another. They are NOT normal (atleast the ones I talked to). Most have money problems, then mental problems, then family problems. It's really a second job for me to weed out the ones with too much baggage for me.[/QUOTE]All of the SBs I've known (and large percent of strictly civy girls) have daddy issues to some degree. This is not to say that all girls that are found on SB sites do, but the type that I meet do, without fail.

As far as money problems, I think all girls in the typical SB age bracket are going to have money problems simply because of where they are in life career-wise, versus their spending wants and needs. And I'm not sure that necessarily goes away with career success, I've known a few with very well paying jobs but of course they will tell you its not enough. The question is, what does "not enough" mean? Not enough to survive? To put food on the table? To keep the lights on? Or not enough to afford Christian Louboutin shoes in every possible style and color? Upon further analysis, it's almost always something like the latter. But then again, if someone asked me if I have enough money I would say not enough to feel like I should stop trying to earn it. Do any of us really ever have enough?

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3123522]I'll make the observation that I don't think that there are huge differences in the way SDs posting here are approaching or compensating their babies. Part of the difference may be the types of girls we are fishing for.

...

I also want to endorse JL's principle that there should always be a gift b / c there is no such thing as free pussy. Pay for it with $, or with other things you may not be so able to part with. The idea here reminds me of cold war spy games, where key people in the intelligence community were being targeted to be 'turned' in a moment of weakness. To accept something illicit. Drugs, money, sex, status. From the other side, and once they had been compromised in that way, they were led down the rabbit hole into betraying their country. This is why I think principles of gifting are important. If you take that short term view that 'if I give this POT $ at the M&G, that is sugar down the drain and I didn't get anything for it,' you are missing the point. She has accepted money with the intention to eventually go to the FC w / you (provided you believe that, and she's not just rinsing you) - she's taken the first bite of the apple. She is moving tangibly toward accepting $ for sex, a transaction that is illicit in our society and something most wouldn't like to be public. And *you* know her secret. This gives you a lot of power. She likes the $ of course. That's the whole reason she has put herself into this position. She has taken a small amount and begins to think how nice it would be to have larger amounts. This is all about the grooming of a prospect. Other daddies here have offered other techniques they use to groom them, but given the universal aspect of sugar in the bowl, this should work on most. I like to 'date' SBs because I like to date them, before the FC, but also b / c that time spent w / me makes her (and me) more at ease with the relationship and it is more likely to be consummated. I am putting out $ for them on the date to show them I have assets (in that sense no different from civi dating). But she sees that $ being expended on her behalf, and again it builds a sense of obligation. This is what you want to get her to the FC.[/QUOTE]I agree that we're likely fishing for different types of babies. I reflected on the type of baby I seek, and I realized that I always ask two questions. I ask them if they've dated an older guy previously. I do this to see if there can be a genuine attraction, or are they just seeking $$. The second question I ask is why they've joined SA. Every now and then I get an answer along the lines of "I'm very busy, and I'm tired of dating guys in my age range. They want me to go dutch etc. Etc. ". In other words, they want to wine and dined, and not worry about being stuck with the check nor making the plans. These babies aren't in it for the money. They're in it for the experience. I wouldn't say they're Unicorns, but they are hard to find. You just have to vet properly. As JZ said, you have to be willing to walk away from those that don't match.

I'm not sure I'd agree on your recruitment analogy. There are plenty of stories on this fine forum about guys gifting at the M&G without a trip to the FC and the baby subsequently disappears. The difference is that most M&G are anonymous meetings whereas a recruitment works because the target is well known and afraid of black mail. Babies (in most cases) don't have that fear.