"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;3112664]In my experience, the SBs that I select are more inclined to want a more standard bf / gf relationship. I don't pay sugar per se, but like normal dating there's nice restaurants, some shopping and any expenses that come up on the SBs end. I don't have to sugar date, but I like the straightforward aspect of The Bowl. I've had a few LTRs and discovered the best SBs for me are the ones that are not totally broke financially. A girl that has some family and requires a little assistance for the perks and fun stuff is the best.

I gained a LTR from it and it was great. There were months of no allowance and she stayed with me. It ended because she had some childhood trauma and BPD. It became too much to deal with over time.

You're getting some of the best girls in one place as opposed to civi dating or bar hopping. Yes, I can pull girls in real life. The Bowl makes it easier to find a hot one and then move faster with sex and bonding than you normally would. Even the GPS or girls asking for $2 K a month will go for no sugar if you're respectful and can show them a good time.[/QUOTE]Point of clarification. By BPD do you mean bipolar or borderline? I can see that bipolar might be fun. That sounds like what you describe. However, if you mean borderline, that is indeed one to run from. Many people have never heard of it before, but my in-laws are psychologists and they discuss these as the hardest to work with and the hardest to help. As an example, a bunny boiler would be a borderline. Could turn on you at any moment and cut you off at the knees, and would have their justification pre-packaged. I don't specifically have recommendations for detection, but as many people on here say, if your spidey sense tingles about a girl, listen to it. There are all kinds of other girls in the bowl who aren't psycho, and there is never a need for a specific piece of ass. Stay safe out there brothers.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3112855]But you were anonymous to her, right? So how does she break dishes at your house? You younger SDs, if you're not maintaining a secret identity, you're civi dating. More power to you, but I am married and it is limiting.
[/QUOTE]It's possible folks are using different definitions of civy dating here -- it would make sense if so, because as we've seen even the definition of SB varies. By my own definition, civy vs. Sugar dating has little to do with anonymity, an SD can have an arrangement without hiding his identity (although it would be wise to do so in many cases).

When I refer to civy dating, the single most differentiating factor relates to how I met the girl. If I meet her on a SD site, she is an SB to me, even if she decides that she wants to play the "girlfriend" card and act like she doesn't want a gift. A civy date is a girl I meet either on a regular dating site like Match, or I maybe meet her in a bar or night club setting. There is no unwritten expectation of financial support in civy meets, it could go either way. They might suggest dutch treat for the first dinner meeting to remove any expectation for the date to continue afterward, at least until they've decided you're a worthy suitor (which does happen anyway when luck is on your side. I've had civy girls go from dinner to the FC in about an hour. I used to try to meet at restaurants close to my house for this very reason).

This form of civy dating is no longer an option for me due to my SO. Civy girls are definitely in it for the "total package" first, financial help later. In fact sometimes you encounter some that already have great and well paying jobs, and are dating upward in age mostly to be sure they don't become a sugar mama to some guy their age that's too lazy to stay employed.

However, SBs can be found in civy circles with some effort. Look for girls who are open-minded with regard to upper dating age, while their income level isn't great. Sometimes when I ask these girls if they've ever considered having an SD they are curious about it but have no idea what it entails or how it would work, or how that is different from escorting. They don't grow on trees but they are out there.

If I were dating someone under civy circumstances and they start complaining about money, acting financially needy, etc. Then maybe I would declare them a civy converted to SB. But I'm not sure I could ever consider a girl that started as SB truly converted to civy, even once she was converted to "free-to-play".

I asked a SB I have a very open relationship with about girls wanting "Internet relationships". She surprised me by saying I would be surprised how many guys are willing to pay for pics and videos and that she has done it herself. The key is that it is "personalized" for the recipient rather than just out there for the public.

I understand it to a point. I do enjoy getting pics and videos of girls I'm seeing, but I know I'm actually seeing them in person or plan to.

I still can't imagine having an "online only" relationship. I need the real thing! LOL.

[QUOTE=LikeMike1963;3112782]And when chics actually want to sell pics of themselves in seductive poses or nude. I am like. "ummm hey hun. Have you heard of this thing called the internet? Umm yeah. It was invented probably before you were alive BUT. I knew a time before there was such a thing. Here's the scoop!. I can with a few key strokes see allllll the hot chics and porn I wnat for FREEEE really its for rea!. LMFAO.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3114048]I asked a SB I have a very open relationship with about girls wanting "Internet relationships". She surprised me by saying I would be surprised how many guys are willing to pay for pics and videos and that she has done it herself. The key is that it is "personalized" for the recipient rather than just out there for the public. I understand it to a point. I do enjoy getting pics and videos of girls I'm seeing, but I know I'm actually seeing them in person or plan to.
I still can't imagine having an "online only" relationship. I need the real thing! LOL.[/QUOTE]I had a FWB once that was into the whole online sex thing, I never really saw the appeal. A couple of times she got on the web cam for me, doing whatever I instructed her to do, masturbating and so forth. It had some novelty entertainment value but to me wasn't sexually arousing. Fucking her in person, now THAT was good times.

What's was bizarre is that when I first met her, she talked about just having broken up with her boyfriend. After talking to her, it was some guy in another state that she had never even met in person -- all online, mutual masturbation over the web cam almost every day. They were planning to travel to meet each other soon but apparently had "broken up" (got fed up with each other and stopped talking online) before it happened. My mind cannot even process a "relationship" like that. I always thought that kind of thing was for severely desperate people, but this was a 25 year old hottie that had no shortage of real-life guys chasing her.

"Different strokes for different folks" I guess. LOL.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3114048]I asked a SB I have a very open relationship with about girls wanting "Internet relationships". She surprised me by saying I would be surprised how many guys are willing to pay for pics and videos and that she has done it herself. The key is that it is "personalized" for the recipient rather than just out there for the public.

I understand it to a point. I do enjoy getting pics and videos of girls I'm seeing, but I know I'm actually seeing them in person or plan to.

I still can't imagine having an "online only" relationship. I need the real thing! LOL.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I can confirm it is out there. Had a SB years ago that was older, had kids & had a VERY respectable job, but had a smoking HOT body! She loved posing for pics in sexy outfits and they were always very hot stuff. [I]{see attached}[/I] She had a number of dudes who paid her to just send pics. Also a couple that just wanted to sit and talk. So I learned to never project my "values" onto some other monger. Who knows what are the hot buttons for some guys? What restrictions, real, mentally or perceived these dudes have psychologically? Different strokes for different folks!

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3114116]Yeah, I can confirm it is out there. Had a SB years ago that was older, had kids & had a VERY respectable job, but had a smoking HOT body! She loved posing for pics in sexy outfits and they were always very hot stuff. [I]{see attached}[/I] She had a number of dudes who paid her to just send pics. Also a couple that just wanted to sit and talk. So I learned to never project my "values" onto some other monger. Who knows what are the hot buttons for some guys? What restrictions, real, mentally or perceived these dudes have psychologically? Different strokes for different folks![/QUOTE]So true. A current member of my rotation, OCCheer, tells me that half of the girls on her college cheerleading squad are on SA (they're too busy for civy BFs), and they have had the most bizarre stuff proposed to them, just flat out. No pretense of a sugar relationship, etc. I don't know anything about fetlife I've seen mentioned here, but presumably stuff like that.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3114048]I asked a SB I have a very open relationship with about girls wanting "Internet relationships". She surprised me by saying I would be surprised how many guys are willing to pay for pics and videos and that she has done it herself. The key is that it is "personalized" for the recipient rather than just out there for the public.

I understand it to a point. I do enjoy getting pics and videos of girls I'm seeing, but I know I'm actually seeing them in person or plan to.

I still can't imagine having an "online only" relationship. I need the real thing! LOL.[/QUOTE]It's huge (I was surprised also). I don't think the rules allow me to give a link to another site, but there are several very large sites set-up to do exactly that. A baby I had a while go is very active with her friends. A couple of them make $1 k / month. The downside is the sites take 40-50% off the top from the girls.

I considered starting a site for the baby (and a handful of her friends). When we did our diligence, the largest cost was the credit card processing. Adult entertainment is classified as high risk due to the number of charge backs. Processors take 15-25%. Add in marketing, hosting, design, and maintenance and 40% seems reasonable.

Hey all. Just wanted to share a sugar bowl story. I'm still getting a chuckle out of it.

So a few weeks back, I start talking up a girl on SA. This is in the VA Beach area. Things go well, she's a tiny AA spinner type. We set up a meet and greet. Last minute, she changes it to come to her place. This puts up an alarm bell, but I move forward and go. After waiting a bit for the "roommate" to leave, I go in. She matches the photos, very nice. Place is an apartment, but no furniture in it. Go to her room and lay down on the bed. Long story short, we get it on. Amazing body, sex was alright. Not quite GPS going on, but it was good. So yay, good time. Donated 1. 5. Blew my mind when she just sat on me. No wrap, just went at it. Damn little head. (Got checked, all good).

Next week, I started chatting up another girl. Had that feeling she looked familiar. Turns out to be true. Earlier, I found the first girls FB page. This new girl was a friend of her. I treated carefully, but apparently my info wasn't shared. I had approached her, not her me. We meet, enjoy the FC. Better in bed, similar slim AA spinner body.

Then two days ago, I start talking to a new girl. Lo and behold, she is frirnds with the other two. Keep in mind, I'm using different numbers for all of them. This was was the best of the three. She is offering a threesome with a friend, LOL. Wondering which one it is or if it's a new one.

Now yes, they could know. But I haven't had any indications that they do. Does it matter? Now I'm actively looking to see if I can find any of there other friends, LOL. So far this all has set me back about 6.

Lesson to all, use burner numbers and don't use photos connected to social media. I've found FB, instagram, and Snapchat. Anyway, I thought it was a funny little story. If anyone wants to talk SA or share info in the VA area, hit me up.

One of the big problems w / paying SA membership is that the one vanilla cards many of us married guys use are specifically not for use outside the US. The best way to get them to work is to email the people at the payment processor, PaymentWall, and just give them all the digits and have them run them through. I was thinking what I needed was a prepaid card that was already set up to be used outside the US. I found several of these, as essentially modern 'traveler's check' cards.

PayPower Travel is supposed to be purchasable at Albertson's, but the one store I went to today didn't have them. I found Visa TravelMoney, which is supposed to be sold at US Bank and other places. I went into a US Bank branch today, and they said they stopped selling them about a year ago. There is supposed to be a version sold by AAA (the auto club) but I am not a member.

I found a Travelex Multi Currency Passport card. I went there today and purchased a card, but I am not sure if / how I am going to use it. It might be a little risky. They required my full DL, my mother's maiden name, and my SSN. I gave them my sugar email and my sugar phone #. I initially got it in euros (I figured I will travel there soon enough if the $ I put on it can't be used for the bowl). I have a message from PaymentWall that says the currency I purchase the prepaid card in doesn't matter, they will automatically translate it. I have accessed the website for the card and translated the euros to dollars (this isn't an 'exchange' and involves no fees). Good news. No statements, etc. Bad news. Travelex will know if I spend $ on SA and who I am. The? Is, will SA get my full name, etc. From my using this card. I don't want this to be so in case of another hack ala Ashley Madison. I feel I might have screwed up by mixing identifiable personal info with secret identity. Someone with one might be able to link it to the other. However, if I had only given my civi phone and email, then clearly this card would not be any more usable for SA payments than my personal credit card.

I'd appreciate insight from others before I do anything with this card.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3116292]...I don't want this to be so in case of another hack ala Ashley Madison. I feel I might have screwed up by mixing identifiable personal info with secret identity.
...
I'd appreciate insight from others before I do anything with this card.[/QUOTE]Then a reasonable solution would be to get a virtual card number based on your personal credit card even better if it is only in your name and the missus does not know about it. Then use the card with your bowl name and address but with the actual zip. The credit card verification is based only on the zip just as at the gas station and if this data is compromised then a person will have only the card number and tracing the owner of card number is not so straightforward. Not foolproof but it makes it difficult for the whoever is snooping around. Security through complication?

Sounds like a lot of SDs are playing in the bowl with little to no sugar. Good for you gentlemen. Your relationships, where you're paying for things that come up, sound a lot like my former relationships with girlfriends, where I would buy extravagant gifts, dinners, or cover expenses. In my mind, those kinds of costs are what I would cover in a normal relationship.

I have a SO, am happy, and playing in the sugar world is for fun on the side. For me providing an allowance is for my need of discretion and because of the possibility of needing to exit at a moments notice (think of that line from the movie Heat). More importantly, I provide sugar because there is no remote possibility of the relationship being anything more than a sugar relationship. I don't talk about my SO much, but when I do, the old timers on this board already know that I care deeply for her. That discussion of the complexities involved there could take a novel, so I won't bother.

That all being said, how many of you SDs out there who aren't providing sugar are single? I suspect that by being single, many of you provide (intended or not) the impression for a young SB that something more between the two of you might one day be possible. I've known plenty of hot women who will take it upon themselves to take on the challenge of bedding a guy in hopes of getting him to settle down.

Dr. McNaughty, Bike Rider, I suspect you're both single, right? I know Hoya is as well. BTW, when I say "single" I mean unmarried. Since many of you brothers have a rotation of ladies, or have a SB right now. Any other brothers out there who are playing in the bowl with no sugar who are not tied down by a SO?

Also, FFA. Hoyasvnfgr plays a modified version of the game we play. His babies go back to his place and he has been known to have ltr with some of them.

That all said. Hoyasvnfgr, it's good to see you back on the board. I had assumed you got remarried to the baby that was tormenting you. Sounds like you've moved on though. Congrats and welcome back.

As an update, my rotation summer rotation is now fully replaced. Life is good brothers. Enjoy the bowl!

Snap chat is great. I love getting snaps from my babies.

All this technology has been great for the sugar world. Kik and snap chat are great tools for communicating with babies. I've been known to pay for subscriptions to Pandora and Netflix for a good baby.

It's a brave new world fellas, got to love it!

[QUOTE=Doc2016;3115568]Hey all. Just wanted to share a sugar bowl story. I'm still getting a chuckle out of it.

So a few weeks back, I start talking up a girl on SA. This is in the VA Beach area. Things go well, she's a tiny AA spinner type. We set up a meet and greet. Last minute, she changes it to come to her place. This puts up an alarm bell, but I move forward and go. After waiting a bit for the "roommate" to leave, I go in. She matches the photos, very nice. Place is an apartment, but no furniture in it. Go to her room and lay down on the bed. Long story short, we get it on. Amazing body, sex was alright. Not quite GPS going on, but it was good. So yay, good time. Donated 1. 5. Blew my mind when she just sat on me. No wrap, just went at it. Damn little head. (Got checked, all good).

Next week, I started chatting up another girl. Had that feeling she looked familiar. Turns out to be true. Earlier, I found the first girls FB page. This new girl was a friend of her. I treated carefully, but apparently my info wasn't shared. I had approached her, not her me. We meet, enjoy the FC. Better in bed, similar slim AA spinner body.

Then two days ago, I start talking to a new girl. Lo and behold, she is frirnds with the other two. Keep in mind, I'm using different numbers for all of them. This was was the best of the three. She is offering a threesome with a friend, LOL. Wondering which one it is or if it's a new one.

Now yes, they could know. But I haven't had any indications that they do. Does it matter? Now I'm actively looking to see if I can find any of there other friends, LOL. So far this all has set me back about 6.

Lesson to all, use burner numbers and don't use photos connected to social media. I've found FB, instagram, and Snapchat. Anyway, I thought it was a funny little story. If anyone wants to talk SA or share info in the VA area, hit me up.[/QUOTE]

I can confirm that OneVanilla is still no bueno, at least as of a few days ago when I finally did upgrade my SA account. I ended up setting up a separate PayPal Account just for this and transferred a small amount from my real PP account (where I have funds available) and then checked out "Via PayPal" using this new account and voila, Bob's your uncle. I set the account up with the monger email, monger phone, etc. So even if SA gets compromised, including the cutomer payment history, they'll still get my pictures and SA back and forth emails with the babes, but there's nothing that ties back to me, except the one-time transfer between the two PP accounts, but that's unlikely to be revealed because I use different pwds for SA, GMail, MSN, PP, etc. , all stored in my virtual machine, so it would take NSA-level skills to trace things back to the real me. I don't have an SO, but I do value my privacy more than the average Joe.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3116292]One of the big problems w / paying SA membership is that the one vanilla cards many of us married guys use are specifically not for use outside the US. The best way to get them to work is to email the people at the payment processor, PaymentWall, and just give them all the digits and have them run them through. I was thinking what I needed was a prepaid card that was already set up to be used outside the US. I found several of these, as essentially modern 'traveler's check' cards.

PayPower Travel is supposed to be purchasable at Albertson's, but the one store I went to today didn't have them. I found Visa TravelMoney, which is supposed to be sold at US Bank and other places. I went into a US Bank branch today, and they said they stopped selling them about a year ago. There is supposed to be a version sold by AAA (the auto club) but I am not a member.

I found a Travelex Multi Currency Passport card. I went there today and purchased a card, but I am not sure if / how I am going to use it. It might be a little risky. They required my full DL, my mother's maiden name, and my SSN. I gave them my sugar email and my sugar phone #. I initially got it in euros (I figured I will travel there soon enough if the $ I put on it can't be used for the bowl). I have a message from PaymentWall that says the currency I purchase the prepaid card in doesn't matter, they will automatically translate it. I have accessed the website for the card and translated the euros to dollars (this isn't an 'exchange' and involves no fees). Good news. No statements, etc. Bad news. Travelex will know if I spend $ on SA and who I am. The? Is, will SA get my full name, etc. From my using this card. I don't want this to be so in case of another hack ala Ashley Madison. I feel I might have screwed up by mixing identifiable personal info with secret identity. Someone with one might be able to link it to the other. However, if I had only given my civi phone and email, then clearly this card would not be any more usable for SA payments than my personal credit card.

I'd appreciate insight from others before I do anything with this card.[/QUOTE]

OK, so I upgraded my account and was finally able to send messages and pic requests. About 20-30 so far. It's been about 3 days and I've got nothing, zilch. I did get one response, but when I tried to respond, her profile was poof, gone. Is this normal? What is you guys' average response rate? For the record, I'm not a Quazimodo and I thought my openers were funny and creative. I'm in my 50's, although I look younger, and my target audience is in the lower age bracket (<24).

(Also, while I'm writing this, I just wanted to take a moment to thank the regular members here, JL, FarFar, fish, HWG and others for their contributions. I don't know about everyone else, but I really, really appreciate the efforts and time that you guys put into it. Kudos to all of you).

What does your profile say? Do you have photos posted? It's hard to say what isn't working without all the information. Yes, there are a lot of flakes there and some do just disappear. But out of 20-30 emails, it's either your email or profile. Are they viewing your profile?

[QUOTE=Assaholic;3116906]OK, so I upgraded my account and was finally able to send messages and pic requests. About 20-30 so far. It's been about 3 days and I've got nothing, zilch. I did get one response, but when I tried to respond, her profile was poof, gone. Is this normal? What is you guys' average response rate? For the record, I'm not a Quazimodo and I thought my openers were funny and creative. I'm in my 50's, although I look younger, and my target audience is in the lower age bracket (<24).

(Also, while I'm writing this, I just wanted to take a moment to thank the regular members here, JL, FarFar, fish, HWG and others for their contributions. I don't know about everyone else, but I really, really appreciate the efforts and time that you guys put into it. Kudos to all of you).[/QUOTE]