"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

I posted a? About how to get rid of a SB, and this was the outcome. This may be instructive to those concerned about karma debts, not so much if you fuck them and dump them. My now ex-SB ModelMILF is the hottest woman (looks body performance10/10/9) I have ever touched or likely ever will. Details in an earlier post, but a veritable orgasm machine, a peak experience for me. She knows / knew this before we started, of course, yet agreed to a stipend below what she merited for an exclusive (in my view also, but what I could afford). I posted separately about the mercenary attitude of women in evaluating their worth and their stubbornness in changing their view, the dreaded GPS. Over time I think this gnawed at her and she became less willing to extend herself to me, leading to my dissatisfaction. I also might have given away some key personal info, creating fear I might be identified / outed to the SO as retribution for ending. I wanted more but couldn't afford her, and said so. She needs to find herself a whale who can give her what we both think she could command. I felt I had to have a convo w / her b / c she has a kid and was on an allowance they depended on, and I couldn't just evaporate. Her calm reaction to my request we stop was that I seemed confused, and while she agreed also said 'well, maybe we'll see one another again sometime. ' Incredibly civil. If my situation changed (lottery winner), I could turn her back on I think. Whoda guessed?

This enables free access my new girls – both 20's. OCHottie I've posted about. She got basically the same $ deal, which I can afford, but with far greater access, local, and no GPS. She gives indications of a transition to lower sugar also. I shared details of both w / senior members (as I have a SO doing so not advised on the Forum) and they can vouch both are very hot model types. OCCheer claimed she had a whale who gave her a ridiculous per meet gift. I was advised to try to get her for 500 for once-in-a-lifetime, but hearing HWG's voice echo in my head, offered 350 and she went for it (west coast scale, keep in mind). Now the performance must match the looks. The sugar world has been berry, berry good to me today.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3111469]I read an interesting quote from a baby's profile on SA recently:

"It seems like the younger men on here think they're entitled to everything because they're not "Old rich men. "I'm just here to tell you the ratio from "old men" to you guys on here is the same so don't message me acting like you're entitled to everything a woman has to offer. ".

First off this girl has some attitude in her profile and clearly seems GPS. What I thought was interesting was her observation of the number of younger guys on the site and their expectation of preferential treatment because they aren't an "old rich guy".

I certainly think that being younger and attractive gives advantages over being older and unattractive. But girls don't join SD sites looking for younger guys without money. They can find that all around them. They clearly chose an SD site because they are interested in an allowance or in some cases drawn to the power, wisdom and experience that a successful older man can offer.

I know we have some younger (under 40) brothers on the board. I'd be curious to understand their perspective.[/QUOTE]As a 30's and fit fella assuming I can get the girl out to a face to face (the hardest part) it either proceeds or ends there on my whim. I can imagine some guys feel entitled, lack etiquette, etc. Also young guys without any money really don't have any business on it because they are going to have to fake it quite a bit, but they may get a bang or two out of a girl before they have to eject (with negative repercussions for the rest of us). But yeah, it's pretty easy mode for me with minimal expenses. Not planning on quitting, and on the contrary as funds grow long term I only plan to get more elaborate. It's nice seeing the constant stream of beautiful girls making their way to the site. I do wonder if it will ever dry up.

To what extent are people successful using sugar identity info to book hotels. On regular websites, on hotwire, etc. ? I know I have to show I'd to check in and so I likely need to go w / my real name, but can I use all the other fake info I would otherwise with no problem? I am really struggling with the whole idea of a paper trail the SO could find, more so than worrying about the SB finding me out. I don't do overnights w / SBs at this point b / c I have a leash and am playing in the bowl near home.

[QUOTE=Xenpar;3112153]As a 30's and fit fella assuming I can get the girl out to a face to face (the hardest part) it either proceeds or ends there on my whim. I can imagine some guys feel entitled, lack etiquette, etc. Also young guys without any money really don't have any business on it because they are going to have to fake it quite a bit, but they may get a bang or two out of a girl before they have to eject (with negative repercussions for the rest of us). But yeah, it's pretty easy mode for me with minimal expenses. Not planning on quitting, and on the contrary as funds grow long term I only plan to get more elaborate. It's nice seeing the constant stream of beautiful girls making their way to the site. I do wonder if it will ever dry up.[/QUOTE]One thing you have would have going for you as a young SD is that there is a certain category of girls around the 18-20 age range who like the idea of sugaring but are new to it, and have not yet warmed up to the idea of banging a 50+ year old guy. Some of them might even see that age bracket as as "sugar grandpa" more than SD material. To them, finding a 30-something daddy is a good way to dip a toe in the water. The downside is that flaky behavior on her part goes up exponentially when they are in the 18-19 age range, in my experience. You can find gold but you can find one that's all on board then becomes skittish about meeting, which is a problem for a traveler like me (this might be what you meant about it being hard to line up the meet and greet?)

Then again some girls are wise beyond their age, and just know what they want. Some of them might be interested in younger SDs from a physical standpoint but more suspicious of their legitimacy (IOW -- can they really support her or are they frauds looking for a one-time pay per fuck). Some of them are just genuinely attracted to older guys and won't date below a certain age (this is not a bad thing for younger SDs, in gives them something to look forward to -- more pussy as they grow older).

[QUOTE=TakesALickin;3111925]I would think that the big difference over conventional "dating" is that the SBs know in advance what they're in for. A SD who is probably married who is looking for a low drama, NSA, convenient source of honey. It's amazing to me the number of women out there who are just naturally drawn to older men.[/QUOTE]The difference between dating and a sb is the sb is being paid. Take away the sugar and if she is still there your dating. That happens from time to time but usually money goes they are gone. Thats why most are here, for the money, they can get dick anywhere. Now what the head scratcher for me is why any young guy with game is paying for pussy. Bad dead beat boyfriend's and husbands bring more women to the site than any other reason. If your young and got game just be a good guy and you should never have to pay for pussy. Oh and spare me the its never free speach. Its a built in given that your paying some way shape or form.

[QUOTE=TakesALickin;3111462]
This SB is 20, smart, is in a competitive college program and has a job. She is sexy as hell and loves the D. Yet, she wants only mine. She's told me that she has feelings, and I admit to a little of the same. Have I hit the lottery or will trouble be brewing?
[/QUOTE]If you're married, run fast and far from that situation. If single? Could be lottery or trouble, depending on what you want out of it. My general advice would be just to keep in mind how you met her, and that pussy is never truly free.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;3108615]Hwg had a form letter that talked about financial, emotional, and mental support (or something like that). A SD can get away with no sugar by transitioning more of one support for the other. Depending on the baby of course.

I am relatively certain that very few ladies are going to stick around for a guy who doesn't provide any type of support at all.[/QUOTE]I guess I've been lucky. I have a few babies that start out with no sugar, and about 30% that will stay without it.

I only have one baby (out of a half dozen) in my rotation right now that gets sugar. Four of the six I met I on SA, the fifth on AM (before the hack), and the sixth in real life.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3112192]One thing you have would have going for you as a young SD is that there is a certain category of girls around the 18-20 age range who like the idea of sugaring but are new to it, and have not yet warmed up to the idea of banging a 50+ year old guy. Some of them might even see that age bracket as as "sugar grandpa" more than SD material. To them, finding a 30-something daddy is a good way to dip a toe in the water. The downside is that flaky behavior on her part goes up exponentially when they are in the 18-19 age range, in my experience. You can find gold but you can find one that's all on board then becomes skittish about meeting, which is a problem for a traveler like me (this might be what you meant about it being hard to line up the meet and greet?)

Then again some girls are wise beyond their age, and just know what they want. Some of them might be interested in younger SDs from a physical standpoint but more suspicious of their legitimacy (IOW -- can they really support her or are they frauds looking for a one-time pay per fuck). Some of them are just genuinely attracted to older guys and won't date below a certain age (this is not a bad thing for younger SDs, in gives them something to look forward to -- more pussy as they grow older).[/QUOTE]I can definitely attest to the 18-19 range being skittish. Time and time again I warm them up pretty well, but they go dark or tell me after thinking on it (after receiving terrible messages) that they don't think it's for them. Nothing like traveling with limited time and you end up wasting some of it on a girl who loses her nerve. Early 20's is my hot spot.

Also I can definitely agree on the younger daddy scenario being a toe dipping experience for some of these girls.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3111469]I read an interesting quote from a baby's profile on SA recently:

"It seems like the younger men on here think they're entitled to everything because they're not "Old rich men. "I'm just here to tell you the ratio from "old men" to you guys on here is the same so don't message me acting like you're entitled to everything a woman has to offer. ".

First off this girl has some attitude in her profile and clearly seems GPS. What I thought was interesting was her observation of the number of younger guys on the site and their expectation of preferential treatment because they aren't an "old rich guy".

I certainly think that being younger and attractive gives advantages over being older and unattractive. But girls don't join SD sites looking for younger guys without money. They can find that all around them. They clearly chose an SD site because they are interested in an allowance or in some cases drawn to the power, wisdom and experience that a successful older man can offer.

I know we have some younger (under 40) brothers on the board. I'd be curious to understand their perspective.[/QUOTE]In my experience, the SBs that I select are more inclined to want a more standard bf / gf relationship. I don't pay sugar per se, but like normal dating there's nice restaurants, some shopping and any expenses that come up on the SBs end. I don't have to sugar date, but I like the straightforward aspect of The Bowl. I've had a few LTRs and discovered the best SBs for me are the ones that are not totally broke financially. A girl that has some family and requires a little assistance for the perks and fun stuff is the best.

I gained a LTR from it and it was great. There were months of no allowance and she stayed with me. It ended because she had some childhood trauma and BPD. It became too much to deal with over time.

You're getting some of the best girls in one place as opposed to civi dating or bar hopping. Yes, I can pull girls in real life. The Bowl makes it easier to find a hot one and then move faster with sex and bonding than you normally would. Even the GPS or girls asking for $2 K a month will go for no sugar if you're respectful and can show them a good time.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3112356]If you're married, run fast and far from that situation. If single? Could be lottery or trouble, depending on what you want out of it. My general advice would be just to keep in mind how you met her, and that pussy is never truly free.[/QUOTE]Young girls can be fire. In both a good and bad way. It's great when they are truly emotionally involved. In my case, the sweet 23 year old would go nuts if I left out or was willing to end things. I've had a keyed car and lots of broken dishware to prove it. All this made for hot passionate make up sex 😀. It got old pretty quick though. It was like the tantrums kept getting more severe. I had to make the call to back out before things got too crazy.

The young ones come with a caution warning sign.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;3111856]If you're not providing an allowance, should it be classified as sugar dating at all? Instead, isn't it just dating?

I'm assuming of course that you're not making promises to a pot and then just not following through. Guess that's an option, and to each his own, but not sure how comfortable I would be with doing that. Just my personal opinion since I am a firm believer if Karma.[/QUOTE]I've paid for things that come up. Car payments, car repairs, phone bills. Week hotel for one single mother that was between places. Total cash excluding nice hotels, dinners and travel, about $850 in 17 months in SA city. The only straight up cash was $400 after a our first date, 3 day long weekend at ski resort. Unfortunately she couldn't she because of an injury skiing earlier in the week. She was college student and couldn't work for a couple weeks because of injury, hence the $400. It turned into a more traditional relationship quickly and lasted almost a year. We are still friends and long distance fuck buddies. Outstanding girl! The first thing she did before we had even met was give me a toy wishlist. She wanted to learn and experience new pleasures. She became an anal fiend after that first weekend haha! We had a few experiences with people referring to her as my daughter. Only to shock them after walked a few feet away to kiss passionately or give eachother a non fatherish / daughterish touch or grab, haha!

90% of girls I've had fun with are young college students under 18-23 . I treat them very respectfully. A door never goes unopened for them and fuck them in ways guys their age do not. I am Dom. Thank your Shades of Grey for creating a plethora of young girls wanting that experience! Not hardcore dom. I have a playground with restraints and creative anchors, some to suspend my sb included. I also have a nice selection of boxed new toys. Currently I have a rotation of three. They all have their own personal toybox at my place. I allow them to take one toy home at a time when were not together.

I also give my babies many gifts, mostly sexy clothes. But also clothes I receive from clients. A few very popular upscale company. 2-500 dollar dresses / oufits that didn't cost me a dime.

I just scratched the surface in this post. That being said, I have great had excellent karma! Being fun and creative doesn"t need to break the bank or cost a cent!

They go crazy because they don't want that steady cash cut off. Plain and simple.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;3112666]Young girls can be fire. In both a good and bad way. It's great when they are truly emotionally involved. In my case, the sweet 23 year old would go nuts if I left out or was willing to end things. I've had a keyed car and lots of broken dishware to prove it. All this made for hot passionate make up sex 😀. It got old pretty quick though. It was like the tantrums kept getting more severe. I had to make the call to back out before things got too crazy.

The young ones come with a caution warning sign.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;3112666]Young girls can be fire. In both a good and bad way. It's great when they are truly emotionally involved. In my case, the sweet 23 year old would go nuts if I left out or was willing to end things. I've had a keyed car and lots of broken dishware to prove it. All this made for hot passionate make up sex 😀. It got old pretty quick though. It was like the tantrums kept getting more severe. I had to make the call to back out before things got too crazy.
The young ones come with a caution warning sign.[/QUOTE]The makeup sex after an argument is one of my favorites, so yes the fire can be good in that regard. But I'll take it in small amounts, in cities away from home, and with proper separation from my identity. If I were married these days I wouldn't touch any kind of emotional involvement -- been there done that (more times than I should be allowed to get away with).

One emerging trend that I like -- super hot, only recently married or soon-to-be-married 20-24 year olds. These girls have their emotions tied up in their hubby or hubby to be, but are looking for escapism and sexual excitement in the bowl. I love the emotional separation that goes with these girls. The hard part for me is that due to their circumstances they usually have lots of scheduling rules like can only meet certain times of day, etc. and for that reason I don't get to meet many of them during my travel excursions.

And when chics actually want to sell pics of themselves in seductive poses or nude. I am like. "ummm hey hun. Have you heard of this thing called the internet? Umm yeah. It was invented probably before you were alive BUT. I knew a time before there was such a thing. Here's the scoop!. I can with a few key strokes see allllll the hot chics and porn I wnat for FREEEE really its for rea!. LMFAO.

[QUOTE=CarltonW;3110631]Check out this UVA girl. Told me IF and ONLY IF she really hit it off after several paid coffees and lunches, she would be willing to get naked and masturbate for me to watch, but under no circumstances would touch me or let me touch her.

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/66e06078-c4e1-43e4-b50c-e12a333d404d[/URL]

She expressed amazement at how hard it was to find someone agreeable to pay her a moderate allowance to bask in the presence of her company![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;3112666]Young girls can be fire. In both a good and bad way. It's great when they are truly emotionally involved. In my case, the sweet 23 year old would go nuts if I left out or was willing to end things. I've had a keyed car and lots of broken dishware to prove it. All this made for hot passionate make up sex 😀. It got old pretty quick though. It was like the tantrums kept getting more severe. I had to make the call to back out before things got too crazy.

The young ones come with a caution warning sign.[/QUOTE]But you were anonymous to her, right? So how does she break dishes at your house? You younger SDs, if you're not maintaining a secret identity, you're civi dating. More power to you, but I am married and it is limiting.

I will dip into JZLizard territory now, who has been quite the philosopher lately. As a newbie to the bowl (4 month veteran), the hardest thing for me is the inherent limits on the amount of time I can spend with my SB, and inability to get our schedules to mesh. I can't change habits that my SO has come to know, and I still have to work, work out, etc. On a couple of occasions the SO has traveled and that has been liberating. Having real dates outside of our home territory. The SO and I always jokingly discussed me being a 'bachelor' when she's gone. Little does she know now, right? - I get a flavor of what you single guys can do in the bowl. I have some emotional connection to my girls also, which I want, I just know that's never going to lead either of us to change our life paths.