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[QUOTE=BeckSneil;6349391]Ha clever! TT sounds great as long as you walk in with $1 k. Is it the best value spot though?[/QUOTE]If you're looking for a stable of fit, pretty white girls then it's the only spot with ITC. Day shift seems easier. If it's a busy night then expect to pay more vs the high rollers.
[QUOTE=NewDude;6348887]VIP ropes must be a money maker. Do you know where any of our favorites went?[/QUOTE]Tip went to Blaze. Past that I know of several that took regular jobs or moved out of Atlanta (to regular jobs I think). Went looking at Pin Ups when they started leaving a couple years ago and did not see any but I know there were a couple that bounced between these two clubs. Some (say Ryder) have a regular job but still dance on a limited basis. My guess is that most of the popular small framed ladies have exited the business. Meagan is still dancing and looks fine but as with all, the mileage is not as good.
Perhaps the Valet ropes make up for wiping out an entire shift (really a shift and a half as mid shift sucks as well) - I would not know. I know one night shift dancer that came from Follies (Lana). She is a small framed women but said she does OK as she has some regulars that like her body type. I danced her at Follies but she said it's an air dance scene for her late night with big crowds and money throwing. I think I will pass on checking that out.
[QUOTE=BeckSneil;6349391]Ha clever! TT sounds great as long as you walk in with $1 k. Is it the best value spot though?[/QUOTE]TT day shift is a bit more economical, but the VIP still starts at 300. You may be able to get somewhere for 400-500, but not night shift. There is a pretty steady lineup on the day shift. I know a few of the day shift girls fairly well and some that will have extras in VIP. I know a few cool day shift girls at TT, but there are also some really nutty girls working day shift. Diamonds has some options but mostly AA and Cubanas that are very aggressive. Once I found Vivide I haven't really found the need for VIP elsewhere for day shift and there are plenty of reviews on it if you go through the threads on this forum.
[QUOTE=BeckSneil;6349391]Ha clever! TT sounds great as long as you walk in with $1 k. Is it the best value spot though?[/QUOTE]It depends on what you want. Had a girl from oasis text me with some pics right after oasis closed. It had that general look of TT. Knowing her, she's getting railed in TT pretty hard whenever she works. I hope some of you are new wiener cousins. If you are looking for white girls on the north side of town, I think it's cheetah, pp, and TT, and that's it, except for the occasional diamond in the rough. I haven't been to cheetah or TT in forever. They always felt way too expensive for me, and I never got a good feeling at either.
Pp was always a personal favorite given success there over the years. Last time I went, it had a completely different type of vibe.
$1 k per trip, that's a bit too steep even for me.
I'm probably too OFU, old fat and ugly, for this anymore.
So I did something I normally don't do which is going to Wax at night. I just wanted to see what changes, if any, were taking place and report back.
The good: The club had a nice abundance of cute girls with nice bodies, enough that the dancer / customer ratio ensured that you wouldn't have to wait long to grab something and get some dances. There were plenty of girls walking around looking for customers willing to dance. Also since my last night shift trip (which was last year), they have seemed to learn their lesson on the insane price gouging for drinks. I secured 2 long island ice teas (bottom shelf pour) for $7 each, tipping the bartender $3 for each. 20 bucks for 2 strong drinks is a win in my book, especially for Wax which has been known to be incredibly stupid with its pricing.
The bad: They've followed the blueprint of other money-grubbing clubs in ATL and removed much of the high chair seating. They are pushing hard to get you to pay for the Hennessey room or front VIP if you want any comfort at all with your dances. If you aren't lucky enough to get a stool at the bar, you are basically assed out. I saw many others and myself even had to stand against the wall and get wall dances in the back like an old school after-hours club. It was also hot as hades in the club. Everyone was sweating with many dancers having fans and constantly fanning themselves, resulting in much less energetic dances than otherwise if the club was comfortable.
The ugly: The main reasons I don't fuck with wax at night still remain. $40 parking in the front, $30 if you park way in the back of the upper side lot (he will charge you $40 even on the side lot if you are near the hill or the driveway). The door cover was still $20, but to me $50/$60 before even getting in the door then they push you to VIP to get comfortable means you will be paying $110 to the club before you even begin to have fun with the ladies. The other ugly is the ridiculous weed smell that will take 3 days to get out of your clothes and linger in your car after you leave. This club leaves no room for discretion; people in your life (family, work, friends) will know that you've been partying somewhere. Married guys or guys with girlfriends / kids need not apply for going to wax. You will be stained.
Question for the V regulars.
I always read about you guys talking about the pimp row. Are these guys real pimps or just lazy boyfriends / bodyguards hanging around watching their baby mamas? I'm asking if any of you ever chatted up one of these guys to arrange some entertainment OTC as a real pimp should provide.
Did a Saturday visit to the city and started at V. I know Saturdays are not the best day but sometimes a smaller crowd can give you some space. Looking for some AA spinners starting about 4:00. Ah, no. Roughly 30 Latina dancers and may have been a couple white girls scattered in. A grand total of 3 black dancers. 2 chubby ladies and one spinner type that was locked down. Not going to hang around a club and wait for one "6. 5". FWIW several AA ladies have commented that they don't like the music nor the way the Latin DJ mixes the Latin songs (he works Saturdays). Gone in 15 minutes.
Diamond is close. Just looking for a small black women in a city with a couple million of them. Cover dropped to $10. Female attendant and bartender could not be any more pleasant. First dancer ambushed me as I came through the entrance. Papi this and Papi that. I struggled to keep her off of me as I ordered my water. So I then turned and gave her my full attention. Model face. A 9 or 10. Big boned girl. Big butt, big breasts, not an overly large stomach. Maybe 5'6" and 170 lbs. Not for me. Carefully explained to her what I was looking for and that she would not be my choice. She turned and pointed me to the exit as I walked away. Made the loop. About 15 dancers and maybe 8 customers. 100% Latina dancers. Only black women in the club was a waitress. The Latina lady was spot on. No AA dancers at Diamond late Saturday afternoon and I quickly headed for the exit.
I've got to head east to get home so it's the worst club in ATL (Strokers) or Pin Ups. Not crazy about Pin Ups but they do have AA dancers. Arrived around 5:30. Remodeling still going on but mostly completed. Free to park and $5 cover. Hear there has been a management change. The attendant and bartenders were very nice. About 15 dancers and around the same number of customer. Stuck my head in the the main stage area and bar. Volume still stuck on full blast with maybe 8 people the room. I don't like high tops and I hate the decibel level. Got my water and moved quickly to the pool table area. Bingo. Several good candidates spotted. They casually introduced themselves and it was time to get started. But the couches have been removed. I told the dancer (Jay) that I needed a low chair to get the view I needed. I asked is their a single chair in this bar other than a stool? Ah, no.
So we had to improvise. She climbed on the new carpeted "stage" that leads into the new private booths that are not open and I pulled a stool to the edge. We worked it out and got her cracked apart under the more than ample lighting for about 15 good dances. Forgot to mention that she was maybe 5"3" and 117 lbs. With a very nice body. Solid 7. Also went about 10 dances with Karma. Taller, thinner, and very dark. Seemed a little drunk but she wanted to whisper in my ear, kiss my neck, basically just rub herself against me for 10 dances. Ok, but I'm not seeing much. Got her to bend over all the way to the floor multiple times. I could see but really didn't get her into the right spot. She knew how to bend but didn't know how to arch her back and spread her legs. Well, she was young and working with me on a bar stool was not the best. Put Karma in the 5'5" 110 lb area with an OK face. Solid 6. 5. Really just my type as was Jay. Went looking for more. One more candidate in the middle room (I think they call it the VIP room). She smiled while I waited a moment but she was multi tasking between a blunt, a hookah, and a cell phone. I gave her about three minutes and bounced.
In summary Pin Ups had some decent talent (and some 4's and 5's as well) but the seating does not work for me and I despise the main bar and seating area because of the decibel level. Regardless, I would not hesitate to try it again and look for more of the same type girls that were working Saturday and just use the alternate rooms. As always, YMMV.
[QUOTE=JoggingPants;6351250]So I did something I normally don't do which is going to Wax at night. I just wanted to see what changes, if any, were taking place and report back.
The good: The club had a nice abundance of cute girls with nice bodies, enough that the dancer / customer ratio ensured that you wouldn't have to wait long to grab something and get some dances. There were plenty of girls walking around looking for customers willing to dance. Also since my last night shift trip (which was last year), they have seemed to learn their lesson on the insane price gouging for drinks. I secured 2 long island ice teas (bottom shelf pour) for $7 each, tipping the bartender $3 for each. 20 bucks for 2 strong drinks is a win in my book, especially for Wax which has been known to be incredibly stupid with its pricing.
The bad: They've followed the blueprint of other money-grubbing clubs in ATL and removed much of the high chair seating. They are pushing hard to get you to pay for the Hennessey room or front VIP if you want any comfort at all with your dances. If you aren't lucky enough to get a stool at the bar, you are basically assed out. I saw many others and myself even had to stand against the wall and get wall dances in the back like an old school after-hours club. It was also hot as hades in the club. Everyone was sweating with many dancers having fans and constantly fanning themselves, resulting in much less energetic dances than otherwise if the club was comfortable.
The ugly: The main reasons I don't fuck with wax at night still remain. $40 parking in the front, $30 if you park way in the back of the upper side lot (he will charge you $40 even on the side lot if you are near the hill or the driveway). The door cover was still $20, but to me $50/$60 before even getting in the door then they push you to VIP to get comfortable means you will be paying $110 to the club before you even begin to have fun with the ladies. The other ugly is the ridiculous weed smell that will take 3 days to get out of your clothes and linger in your car after you leave. This club leaves no room for discretion; people in your life (family, work, friends) will know that you've been partying somewhere. Married guys or guys with girlfriends / kids need not apply for going to wax. You will be stained.
Question for the V regulars.
I always read about you guys talking about the pimp row. Are these guys real pimps or just lazy boyfriends / bodyguards hanging around watching their baby mamas? I'm asking if any of you ever chatted up one of these guys to arrange some entertainment OTC as a real pimp should provide.[/QUOTE]I've never directly talked with them, but only noticed after other members mentioned them. Then I picked up that the girls would head over to them every while to share their earnings.
[QUOTE=JoggingPants;6351250]
The ugly: The main reasons I don't fuck with wax at night still remain. $40 parking in the front, $30 if you park way in the back of the upper side lot (he will charge you $40 even on the side lot if you are near the hill or the driveway). The door cover was still $20, but to me $50/$60 before even getting in the door then they push you to VIP to get comfortable means you will be paying $110 to the club before you even begin to have fun with the ladies. The other ugly is the ridiculous weed smell that will take 3 days to get out of your clothes and linger in your car after you leave. This club leaves no room for discretion; people in your life (family, work, friends) will know that you've been partying somewhere. Married guys or guys with girlfriends / kids need not apply for going to wax. You will be stained.
[/QUOTE]The 30 dollar parking at Wax is what gets me. The first few times I went I dodged the parking guy for the top lot. Sometimes he is not around. I have a few dancers friends there I go see, but I have been approached by other girls that have been solid.
Several of the dancers I know refer to them as pimps. They are bringing the gals and taking part of their $$.
There is also a rather fat dude who is the local drug dealer, he acts like he owns whatever area he wants to sit in.
[QUOTE=JoggingPants;6351250]So I did something I normally don't do which is going to Wax at night. I just wanted to see what changes, if any, were taking place and report back.
The good: The club had a nice abundance of cute girls with nice bodies, enough that the dancer / customer ratio ensured that you wouldn't have to wait long to grab something and get some dances. There were plenty of girls walking around looking for customers willing to dance. Also since my last night shift trip (which was last year), they have seemed to learn their lesson on the insane price gouging for drinks. I secured 2 long island ice teas (bottom shelf pour) for $7 each, tipping the bartender $3 for each. 20 bucks for 2 strong drinks is a win in my book, especially for Wax which has been known to be incredibly stupid with its pricing.
The bad: They've followed the blueprint of other money-grubbing clubs in ATL and removed much of the high chair seating. They are pushing hard to get you to pay for the Hennessey room or front VIP if you want any comfort at all with your dances. If you aren't lucky enough to get a stool at the bar, you are basically assed out. I saw many others and myself even had to stand against the wall and get wall dances in the back like an old school after-hours club. It was also hot as hades in the club. Everyone was sweating with many dancers having fans and constantly fanning themselves, resulting in much less energetic dances than otherwise if the club was comfortable.
The ugly: The main reasons I don't fuck with wax at night still remain. $40 parking in the front, $30 if you park way in the back of the upper side lot (he will charge you $40 even on the side lot if you are near the hill or the driveway). The door cover was still $20, but to me $50/$60 before even getting in the door then they push you to VIP to get comfortable means you will be paying $110 to the club before you even begin to have fun with the ladies. The other ugly is the ridiculous weed smell that will take 3 days to get out of your clothes and linger in your car after you leave. This club leaves no room for discretion; people in your life (family, work, friends) will know that you've been partying somewhere. Married guys or guys with girlfriends / kids need not apply for going to wax. You will be stained.
Question for the V regulars.
I always read about you guys talking about the pimp row. Are these guys real pimps or just lazy boyfriends / bodyguards hanging around watching their baby mamas? I'm asking if any of you ever chatted up one of these guys to arrange some entertainment OTC as a real pimp should provide.[/QUOTE]
It's was ya boy's B-Day a few weeks ago so I decided to hit blaze on a Saturday day shift for new girls willing to DO. (As always, long post).
I tried twin, million dollars (twice), bad bunny, Gin, Raw, and Wet wet.
Twin- Chocolate, 5'7, slim thick. She pressed me for a dance before I was ready but her eagerness got me to agree. She could be a winner but I was on the PG13 side of the downstairs bar and couldn't test her willingness for DO. Good grinding and stick shifting but not what I was looking for, I wanted DO. Would try her again on DO row in the future.
Million Dollars- She was dancing on DO row but saw my lack of excitement with Twin and laughed at me. After she finished her dances, we chatted and moved to the middle area of the bar right in front of the stage. She started dancing before I was ready with decent grinding and stick shifting. Since it was Saturday, I had on joggers with a dick hole. Pulled my piece out and she said I couldn't do that. I was a bit perplexed because she was in the back of the DO area section. I assumed she was with it but was wrong. I tipped her and she left. 5'5, peanut butter complexion, Baby hair, C cups, decent booty, was a spinner back in her day.
Bad Bunny- Chocolate, short (maybe 5'0), very pleasant. Told her what I wanted and she started dancing. She immediately grabbed my piece and was pointing it in the right places. It was in my joggers tho. She wouldn't let go for me to pull it out. Despite this, she kept looking bad to see if it was out. I always keep my hammer out of my boxer dick hole but didn't get it out of my joggers. After about 8 dances, I tipped her. Good girl, great dances, but didn't let me get what I wanted and used a keep-my-dick-in-her-hand strategy to prevent full DO dances despite knowing that's what I wanted. Would definitely try her again if she agreed to DO dances.
Gin- Told her what I wanted. Let me pull it out. Would not grind on it without pulling my shirt over my dick. I wanted to be done with her after the first dance but gave her four dances as to not offend her. 5'4, super spinner, long hair.
2nd time w / twin- Since I was in the same seat, she asked if I needed more dances. I told her only if I can get them how I wanted them. She said I needed to get 10 dances. I agreed amd gave her $50 upfront. She pulls me out places it perfectly between the cheeks and on the front door of her pussy. One dance in, her pussy get really warm and a little moist. Had perfect thigh and ass cheek control. I felt a skeet coming on song 8 but held it.
Raw- Physically not what I go for but sat next to me during the past two dances and was generally pleasant. 5'8, Dark chocolate, nose ring, giant real ass, giant double or triple cut D cups. First dance, she spreads and inserts me. Felt good but since I was close to blasting with the last girl, I had to pull out. She called me scary. I slid on a rubber and let her back at it. 3 songs in a skeeted in the rubber. I nutted so hard, I had to front like I was looking for something on the floor. She helped me put myself up. While I was pulling out my money for her, she said, "You know that's going to cost you more than $15. " I give her $60, she asks for $40 more and I oblige as it was one of the better DO nuts I've had.
Wet Wet- After cleaning up in the bathroom, I came back to the bar to tab out. I got some dances from her to make it seem like the Raw didn't just wipe me out. She is the Definition of average. 5'6, brown skin, maybe C cups, small ass but some decent curve, not quite chunky but not toned. 2nd dance in she puts my hand on her cat and her name is apropos. That thing was soaking wet. I literally just nutted 5 minutes ago, so I didn't get hard which annoyed her. A seat opened on DO row so we relocated. Full, raw DO at this point but still no wood from me. She gave a couple of very discreet suck, no luck. She started rubbing my piece on her wet wet for two songs and I'm back. Full raw insertion with felt good. 15 songs later, she asked if I'm going to bust which I told her no. She said, if I'm trying to nut, I'm going to have to pay 10 per song. I paid, tipped and left.
All-in-all, $500. A bit pricey but I found a few new down for DO dancers.
[QUOTE=SixInchPimp;6352505]
Raw- Physically not what I go for but sat next to me during the past two dances and was generally pleasant. 5'8, Dark chocolate, nose ring, giant real ass, giant double or triple cut D cups. First dance, she spreads and inserts me. Felt good but since I was close to blasting with the last girl, I had to pull out. She called me scary. I slid on a rubber and let her back at it. 3 songs in a skeeted in the rubber. I nutted so hard, I had to front like I was looking for something on the floor. She helped me put myself up. While I was pulling out my money for her, she said, "You know that's going to cost you more than $15. " I give her $60, she asks for $40 more and I oblige as it was one of the better DO nuts I've had.
All-in-all, $500. A bit pricey but I found a few new down for DO dancers.[/QUOTE]Great review. As always, you make it sound easy. I tried something like this a few weeks back at V. Condom just would not go on and I had a wrestling match with it on a couch in an open area. I know the brand is a tight fit but it will go on if I am 95% erect (apparently was a a bit shy). The "popular" larger brand works but it's not shaped exactly the way I like for a perfect fit on my noodle (some are straight and some are flared if anyone is wondering). Neither of us preferred raw insertion so she grabbed some napkins but eventually let me finish in her mouth. Not sure I can pull off the full service on a bar stool with a condom stopover and a crowd on hand to observe but that's what makes for an entertaining review. Congratulations on your BD celebration, one to remember.
I am an early 60's white guy and the last two times I went, I got no dancers. The last time was Wednesday a little after 2. One did come up when I first sat down and asked if wanted a dance now or in a few minutes. I asked her to come back in a bit as I was trying get something done on phone. Then nada. After 50 minutes, I bailed.
I went once before on a Friday or Saturday around 3:30 and sat for an hour and got no approaches. Don't get it.
I am wearing lightweight fishing pants, suspenders, and a fedora hat.
[QUOTE=SixInchPimp;6352505]It's was ya boy's B-Day a few weeks ago so I decided to hit blaze on a Saturday day shift for new girls willing to DO. (As always, long post).
I tried twin, million dollars (twice), bad bunny, Gin, Raw, and Wet wet.
Twin- Chocolate, 5'7, slim thick. She pressed me for a dance before I was ready but her eagerness got me to agree. She could be a winner but I was on the PG13 side of the downstairs bar and couldn't test her willingness for DO. Good grinding and stick shifting but not what I was looking for, I wanted DO. Would try her again on DO row in the future.
Million Dollars- She was dancing on DO row but saw my lack of excitement with Twin and laughed at me. After she finished her dances, we chatted and moved to the middle area of the bar right in front of the stage. She started dancing before I was ready with decent grinding and stick shifting. Since it was Saturday, I had on joggers with a dick hole. Pulled my piece out and she said I couldn't do that. I was a bit perplexed because she was in the back of the DO area section. I assumed she was with it but was wrong. I tipped her and she left. 5'5, peanut butter complexion, Baby hair, C cups, decent booty, was a spinner back in her day.
Bad Bunny- Chocolate, short (maybe 5'0), very pleasant. Told her what I wanted and she started dancing. She immediately grabbed my piece and was pointing it in the right places. It was in my joggers tho. She wouldn't let go for me to pull it out. Despite this, she kept looking bad to see if it was out. I always keep my hammer out of my boxer dick hole but didn't get it out of my joggers. After about 8 dances, I tipped her. Good girl, great dances, but didn't let me get what I wanted and used a keep-my-dick-in-her-hand strategy to prevent full DO dances despite knowing that's what I wanted. Would definitely try her again if she agreed to DO dances.
Gin- Told her what I wanted. Let me pull it out. Would not grind on it without pulling my shirt over my dick. I wanted to be done with her after the first dance but gave her four dances as to not offend her. 5'4, super spinner, long hair.
2nd time w / twin- Since I was in the same seat, she asked if I needed more dances. I told her only if I can get them how I wanted them. She said I needed to get 10 dances. I agreed amd gave her $50 upfront. She pulls me out places it perfectly between the cheeks and on the front door of her pussy. One dance in, her pussy get really warm and a little moist. Had perfect thigh and ass cheek control. I felt a skeet coming on song 8 but held it.
Raw- Physically not what I go for but sat next to me during the past two dances and was generally pleasant. 5'8, Dark chocolate, nose ring, giant real ass, giant double or triple cut D cups. First dance, she spreads and inserts me. Felt good but since I was close to blasting with the last girl, I had to pull out. She called me scary. I slid on a rubber and let her back at it. 3 songs in a skeeted in the rubber. I nutted so hard, I had to front like I was looking for something on the floor. She helped me put myself up. While I was pulling out my money for her, she said, "You know that's going to cost you more than $15. " I give her $60, she asks for $40 more and I oblige as it was one of the better DO nuts I've had.
Wet Wet- After cleaning up in the bathroom, I came back to the bar to tab out. I got some dances from her to make it seem like the Raw didn't just wipe me out. She is the Definition of average. 5'6, brown skin, maybe C cups, small ass but some decent curve, not quite chunky but not toned. 2nd dance in she puts my hand on her cat and her name is apropos. That thing was soaking wet. I literally just nutted 5 minutes ago, so I didn't get hard which annoyed her. A seat opened on DO row so we relocated. Full, raw DO at this point but still no wood from me. She gave a couple of very discreet suck, no luck. She started rubbing my piece on her wet wet for two songs and I'm back. Full raw insertion with felt good. 15 songs later, she asked if I'm going to bust which I told her no. She said, if I'm trying to nut, I'm going to have to pay 10 per song. I paid, tipped and left.
All-in-all, $500. A bit pricey but I found a few new down for DO dancers.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SgtLurker;6354116]I am an early 60's white guy and the last two times I went, I got no dancers. The last time was Wednesday a little after 2. One did come up when I first sat down and asked if wanted a dance now or in a few minutes. I asked her to come back in a bit as I was trying get something done on phone. Then nada. After 50 minutes, I bailed.
I went once before on a Friday or Saturday around 3:30 and sat for an hour and got no approaches. Don't get it.
I am wearing lightweight fishing pants, suspenders, and a fedora hat.[/QUOTE]Younger white guy here. I had similar first time experiences. I had to "work" on building a rapport with a few that I approached before people started approaching me... even now it's hit or miss but much better. Initially, I thought it was the fact I looked young or was white. I believe it's they are just lazy and want someone to ask them.
[QUOTE=Machintosh;6354457]Younger white guy here. I had similar first-time experiences. I had to "work" on building a rapport with a few that I approached before people started approaching me... even now it's hit or miss but much better. Initially, I thought it was the fact I looked young or was white. I believe it's because they are just lazy and want someone to ask them.[/QUOTE]It has been addressed many times in this thread about the "air" that some AAs have in clubs. Not a racial thing but just Bad customer service in the industry of providing a service. LOL. The younger one is more accurate. All shades are in blaze looking for some mileage.
[QUOTE=JMAbacus;6352860]Great review. As always, you make it sound easy. I tried something like this a few weeks back at V. Condom just would not go on and I had a wrestling match with it on a couch in an open area. I know the brand is a tight fit but it will go on if I am 95% erect (apparently was a a bit shy). The "popular" larger brand works but it's not shaped exactly the way I like for a perfect fit on my noodle (some are straight and some are flared if anyone is wondering). Neither of us preferred raw insertion so she grabbed some napkins but eventually let me finish in her mouth. Not sure I can pull off the full service on a bar stool with a condom stopover and a crowd on hand to observe but that's what makes for an entertaining review. Congratulations on your BD celebration, one to remember.[/QUOTE]Theres the aisle behind the DJ booth next to VIP that seem like a perfect spot to finagle, some folks will use the DJ stool when hes not there or otherwise youd have to stand.
Any other US cities within a short one way flight that are within the price range & menu of Vivide and volume of talent like Tattletales? I have a bunch of Skymiles to burn. Miami I've done once (Tootsies) but heard some Latina clubs or going north Miami / Pompano are much better value. I've been to Key West once, they have 2-3 stripclubs very convenient and close to bars / airbnbs but never attempted OTC. I know the famous rep of Tampa but was told recently its not worth going.