"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;3088598]
When I read your message, I believed you were alluding to the idea of having an SB that gets an allowance in addition to actual employment. Paying her a cash allowance that covers both "dating" and whatever other tasks she is doing for you is not the same as making her an employee of one of your businesses. I do realize you didn't say that's what you necessarily wanted to do, just telling you that's what I read into it. What it really seems you want is a way to hire someone under the table to work with your businesses and investments without revealing your identity? If so, then I'd still say it's potentially asking for trouble to be fucking that person in any capacity, but again it's just my opinion and I'm not trying to force it on anyone. I personally wouldn't let anyone touch my personal investments who was interested in an illegal payroll arrangement, but that's just me.[/QUOTE]I was only seeking to learn Fish's approach. I was pretty sure it wouldn't apply to me, but it might help someone else here.

Sadly, I don't have work that I can hand-off to an "intern" without also exposing to much personal information. I also have an incredible 'chief of staff' that would bust me in minutes about unreported contractor payments, or such. It sucks, but it is exactly why I pay her so well.

Cephlapod. We're in agreement here. IMHO, if you want to lock down a SB with a room / place of her own, best way to do it is to have her name on the lease and then to provide her with lavish cash gifts in the amount of her rent. She can do with it what she wants. If you've got a good history with a SB, then its a great way to lock her down since you're pretty much guaranteed to have that young lady calling you at the end of the month when rent is due.

Pick the wrong SB, and it doesn't matter that her name is on the lease. She'll be evicted in a month's time and will be hounding you for another room. Only her credit will be screwed because of the eviction and then the landlord / leasing office will require security, first months rent, and last month's rent to put the place in her name or will require you to co-sign for her. Then you're in a pretty bad spot.

The point of my last post was to correct any misinformation getting evicted will create a rap sheet for someone. As you correctly point out, an eviction is a civil and not a criminal matter. Also, to be over technical on my end, in many jurisdictions (depending on the state and even down to the municipality or city) landlord / tenant disputes are handled by a forum specifically designed to hear those kinds of cases. And so while the matter is considered a civil rather than criminal proceeding (as you accurately point out), the matter may not be heard by what one normally considers to be a civil court. Philadelphia, a city I believe you are familiar with, has such a forum specifically designated for landlord / tenant disputes.

The long and the short of it is that it appears that we agree to agree. If you see my response to the OP's initial question, you'll note that I recommended that he put the room in the SB's name. I followed up with the additional advice in keeping with the idea that this forum is a place where folks share advice, and thought best to clear up any potential misinformation that might affect OP's decisions.

Also, as an aside, at the end of the day, I would never put a SB into any of my rental units because then there's not even the veneer of anonymity. Sure, my SBs could pull my license plate off my car when we go for a ride, or could follow me, or have me followed after a date. I hope I pick them wisely enough to avoid from having a crazy gal do that. I also agree with you that hell hath no fury like a woman's scorn, which is why I play my game using the techniques I've refined over time, and have done so with varying degrees of success. That all being said, the day that I ever consider putting a SB into a rental property that I own is the day that my SO leaves me because I slipped up somewhere. I'm hoping that doesn't happen anytime soon.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3088592]An eviction would not be in criminal court, it would be in Civil Court. That is if one follows the proper procedures and gets the courts involved to evict the the person. Civil Cases are searchable as well as criminal ones. If you are the lessee and she defaults on the lease, then yes, your credit will take a hit as well as potentially having the civil record showing the default.

The point is that it makes sense to avoid becoming a landlord to a SB or letting her use a place you rent. If you are the landlord and try to evict her, just imagine if she shows up at the Civil Court and testifies as to a sexual relationship that is understood as compensation for the rent. Then your SB activity is memorialized in the court record! Don; t think she will do it? Se the post by OP who mentioned that the SB planned to flood the apartment on her eviction. How about if she smashes up all of the fixtures in the bathroom, ruins the carpets, spary paints the walls, lets a dog mess all over the place? Remember H*ll hath no fury like a woman scorned![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3088611]I was only seeking to learn Fish's approach. I was pretty sure it wouldn't apply to me, but it might help someone else here. Sadly, I don't have work that I can hand-off to an "intern" without also exposing to much personal information. I also have an incredible 'chief of staff' that would bust me in minutes about unreported contractor payments, or such. It sucks, but it is exactly why I pay her so well.[/QUOTE]Well part of the problem with public conversations is that anyone can read them and respond. Sorry if you didn't like my responses, or exclusively wanted to hear from someone else, but I do wish you wouldn't take them personally or in a way that's defensive. If the goal is collective learning, then everyone should have access to as many opinions as possible, mine and anyone else's, in making their decisions. That's what differentiates public thread conversations from PMs. You might engage him there? He's a big fan of PMs, I couldn't get him to stop spamming mine.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;3088614]Well part of the problem with public conversations is that anyone can read them and respond. Sorry if you didn't like my responses, or exclusively wanted to hear from someone else, but I do wish you wouldn't take them personally or in a way that's defensive. If the goal is collective learning, then everyone should have access to as many opinions as possible, mine and anyone else's, in making their decisions. That's what differentiates public thread conversations from PMs. You might engage him there? He's a big fan of PMs, I couldn't get him to stop spamming mine.[/QUOTE]I agree completely that everyone should be able to provide their opinion. It is up to each of us individually to decide if the opinion is useful or not. We all bring something different to the table, and the sole purpose of this forum is to share. This is a community of sorts and we need to support each other and encourage discussion.

Ever consider hiring a personal assistant or personal shopper? Completely unrelated to your work and to help you with personal life tasks. That's for the most part of what intern #2 does for me. I can't remember if I mentioned it or not, but "intern #2" was initially pulled from a menial task/job oriented site and started out by doing menial personal tasks for me. Also I agree with your real world analysis. At the end of the day, $15 an hour, and 3-5 hours a week of "work" ends up amounting to chump change. Also, now that the summer is gone and the girls are back to school, they have almost no free time and so our visits are generally romantic in nature. Its just that they started out in a work context. I'd say that during this summer, they probably made in the low three figures.

I'm not a federal agent so I can't speak to whether the government would open an investigation to address tax payments on a few hundred dollars. I guess everyone has their own risk tolerance though. As you said in your prior post, can't imagine that a SB would significantly lie about how much more she was paid than she actually was to get the interest of someone with the authority to do something - because that would place her in the awkward situation of probably paying backtaxes on a significantly larger amount than she probably made. On the other hand, can you imagine the look on the persons face if they received a call from someone trying to report that you didn't pay their taxes for $300 worth of "work" performed over the course of a few months? Not sure if any agency wants to spend their resources chasing down a claim for a few hundred dollars. That's also why if a "intern" or "personal assistant" isn't going to work out, they get cut after 1 or 2 projects.

From my perspective my method is was a great way to weed out the scammers, nandos, and GPS SBs that are now all trolling the sugar sites. Nothing like tapping into the dark desires of a PYT who wants so badly to star in their own little version of 50 Shades of Grey or Mad Men. Also, there isn't any need for me to do anything that would be even remotely considered sexual harassment since most of the young ladies these days are so comfortable with their own sexuality. The flip side of that of course is that even if I didn't do anything that could be considered sexual harassment, any woman I work with could make up a lie to make my life difficult. The key is finding someone that won't do that.

Also, my method greatly increases the in person meet and greet numbers. Gone are the days of the 85 % chance that a POT isn't going to show up. Now I've found that most of my meetings have a 85% chance of the intern actually showing up. The mindset is completely different. Also, my prior moneybowl post confirmed that once I got them to show up and could prove that I wasn't a complete creeper and just a normal, semi-decent looking guy who could make them laugh, my chances of taking them to the FC improved considerably. Don't get me wrong, I've done a ton of interviews, but the back and forth of showing up for a meeting and having someone flake is much less likely now.

Based on your posts, I suspect you're pretty good at reading people, and I also suspect that you treat your SBs well. I've found that when you find the right SB, and treat them well, even if you completely disappear on them, they don't hold it against you. Every one of my prior SBs have either assumed that something terribly bad happened to me, that I was found out by my SO, or is just completely confused. Early on, I had a few that were completely pissed off and angry, but that was more because I ended up in arrangements with entitled young self-absorbed babies who thought I owed them something beyond treating them well, making them cum, and giving them a nice allowance. I let my little head tell my big head that they were too hot to pass up. Now that I have a careful selection criteria, I've found that while I don't always pull the hottest babies with the best bodies, the relationship with them is so much more fun, less stress filled, and they are so much more appreciative.

Just my two cents on what's worked for me.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3088611]I was only seeking to learn Fish's approach. I was pretty sure it wouldn't apply to me, but it might help someone else here.

Sadly, I don't have work that I can hand-off to an "intern" without also exposing to much personal information. I also have an incredible 'chief of staff' that would bust me in minutes about unreported contractor payments, or such. It sucks, but it is exactly why I pay her so well.[/QUOTE]

It would be great to bring many of the brothers who had much to contribute back to the forum. There used to be some great stories, advice, and lots of original advice on this forum. It used to also be a very congenial place where most brothers would provide one another support.

More recently I've found the board to be filled with those new to the sugar bowl asking the same questions, getting the same responses. Not much new or original thought, especially as those with many years of experience in the bowl no longer visit this forum (present company excluded). I've only recently reposted in response to FFA's specific question requesting advice, and then found myself getting caught up in the old habit of trying to correct misinformation. I should have known better.

I guess I can always wish for what was, and I appreciate your efforts to try to get the board back on track. Not sure if it will make any difference though. I suspect this board is now destined to be what it is now. It's a little sad though because it was a really interesting place when I first found it a few years back.

Fish out.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3088627]I agree completely that everyone should be able to provide their opinion. It is up to each of us individually to decide if the opinion is useful or not. We all bring something different to the table, and the sole purpose of this forum is to share. This is a community of sorts and we need to support each other and encourage discussion.[/QUOTE]

Does CL charge to post job ads? If yes, what do they charge and how many Ads do you have to post to get good visibility and generate the required number of applicants.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;3088409]

The characteristics I look for are:

1. Younger; 2. Comes from a blue collar background; 3. Not reliant on parents for paying for school; 4. Genuine appreciation for something as small as buying coffee for them at the interview; 5. True desire for mentorship; 6. obedient/submissive - is good at doing what their told; etc.

My two current interns are happy to get paid $15 an hour for any projects that I assign to them. These are discrete tasks, and I dictate the amount of hours that I think they should be spending on them. When posting CL ads, or putting a flyer at a local community college; etc. , I'll include my SD name, and my SD e-mail address. The post will request that interested applicants send me an e-mail providing a copy of their resume and their phone number. I use the phone number and name to pull their facebook page / twitter / etc. Which gives me enough information to determine whether they get granted an interview. Its amazing how much information some people post on their social media accounts. Then during the interview, I check them out.

[/QUOTE]

Not sure how many of us here have explored the chaturbate site. Like SA its growing in popularity among the college coeds to make few quick bucks on the side in their free time. Especially the weekends are loaded with 18 - 22 yo on the site. I was surprised to find that many of them don't flinch to show of various sex skills ranging from group sex, anal, bdsm, etc. Etc. I think its yet another great tool available to watch closely and understand the mindset of these 18 somethings.

[QUOTE=GuyInTheCorner;3084225]Yes, there are quite a few submissive girls. The SB dynamic leads to it. I suspect a fair number of us are naturally dominant ourselves. I'd encourage you to explore it yourself. Chances are you might discover something about yourself. Or don't -- more for the rest of us.

There is a surprisingly high correlation between girls on SA and on fetlife.[/QUOTE]

My understanding is that CL only charges to post ads in certain markets where demand is strong enough. For example in the NYC market CL charges to post. In Raleigh, NC, CL does not.

The major problem with CL is the spammed that it will generate. A paper flyer is key to avoiding the spam, but often gets pulled down within hours of being put up because many campuses have requirements that flyers be approved by some campus organization prior to being posted.

The number of ads depends on the market and the forum. If you post a ad in a very small market it might stay on top for days and give you good visibility. An ad in a large market might disappear in minutes. Also posting a help wanted ad might stay on top longer than posting a model wanted ad in the casual ecounters section, which tends to disappear quickly.

[QUOTE=Lebruno;3088957]Does CL charge to post job ads? If yes, what do they charge and how many Ads do you have to post to get good visibility and generate the required number of applicants.[/QUOTE]

Also, to be fair, my methods aren't really original. They have actually been around for ages. Think Arnold Swarchenegger, Ben Affleck, woody Allen, etc. The guy getting a blow job from his secretary is common enough to be cliche. Plenty of guys have been banging women (non SO) who are in their real lives for years before the Internet existed. That all being said there are some lines that even I wouldn't cross (e. G. Think Woody Allen - which IMHO is just creepy and gross, but to each his own since I recognize the stuff I do could be considered appalling by many).

[QUOTE=Lebruno;3088976]Not sure how many of us here have explored the chaturbate site. Like SA its growing in popularity among the college coeds to make few quick bucks on the side in their free time. Especially the weekends are loaded with 18 - 22 yo on the site. I was surprised to find that many of them don't flinch to show of various sex skills ranging from group sex, anal, bdsm, etc. Etc. I think its yet another great tool available to watch closely and understand the mindset of these 18 somethings.[/QUOTE]I've toyed around with the idea without much luck. Hard to find girls in my area. But hey, worth a shot if you can make it work!

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3088627]I agree completely that everyone should be able to provide their opinion. It is up to each of us individually to decide if the opinion is useful or not. We all bring something different to the table, and the sole purpose of this forum is to share. This is a community of sorts and we need to support each other and encourage discussion.[/QUOTE]I do agree fully with your overall philosophy here. I also do believe it is important to take into consideration everyone's individual goals and conversational styles.

I personally do not find value in online discussions where everyone is afraid to express when they disagree on points. If we allow ourselves to degrade into a group of buddy-buddy, head-nodding ass kissers that do nothing but dole out atta-boys and pat each other on the back at every possible opportunity, we have foregone the chance to truly learn from each other and develop new techniques by constantly challenging our ideas.

There is nothing wrong with challenging the ideas that are brought up here, and supporting every idea that's posted just leads to an inbred thought process. If I see something that I think is a bad idea, I'm going to call it out, not to embarrass anyone but to convey my opinion in the hopes of helping other brothers avoid potential pitfalls. If anyone is ever feeling like their toes are stepped on by that type of discussion, they are going to have a very hard time on any monger forum, because to the best of my knowledge the discussions that take place in this particular thread are some of the most civil discourse anywhere on USASG. I've seen folks in the other SB related threads praise the Richmond thread for the quality of discussion that takes place here.

As for those who are so insecure that they can't deal with being challenged or disagreed with, and choose to constantly complain about the current state of this thread, well nobody is forcing them to read or post here. They are more interested in finding acceptance through the art of ass kissing anyway. I'm only interested in an information exchange that betters the sugardaddy scene. I'm not looking to fill vacancies in my social life or make lifelong pals as much as I just want to help those I can and learn something new myself when possible. As far as creating small fiefdoms of agree-teams just for self-affirmation, I'm not into it, nor do I see it as a productive use of time.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;3088613]Cephlapod. We're in agreement here. IMHO, if you want to lock down a SB with a room / place of her own, best way to do it is to have her name on the lease and then to provide her with lavish cash gifts in the amount of her rent. She can do with it what she wants. If you've got a good history with a SB, then its a great way to lock her down since you're pretty much guaranteed to have that young lady calling you at the end of the month when rent is due.

Pick the wrong SB, and it doesn't matter that her name is on the lease. She'll be evicted in a month's time and will be hounding you for another room. Only her credit will be screwed because of the eviction and then the landlord / leasing office will require security, first months rent, and last month's rent to put the place in her name or will require you to co-sign for her. Then you're in a pretty bad spot.

The point of my last post was to correct any misinformation getting evicted will create a rap sheet for someone. As you correctly point out, an eviction is a civil and not a criminal matter. Also, to be over technical on my end, in many jurisdictions (depending on the state and even down to the municipality or city) landlord / tenant disputes are handled by a forum specifically designed to hear those kinds of cases. And so while the matter is considered a civil rather than criminal proceeding (as you accurately point out), the matter may not be heard by what one normally considers to be a civil court. Philadelphia, a city I believe you are familiar with, has such a forum specifically designated for landlord / tenant disputes.

The long and the short of it is that it appears that we agree to agree. If you see my response to the OP's initial question, you'll note that I recommended that he put the room in the SB's name. I followed up with the additional advice in keeping with the idea that this forum is a place where folks share advice, and thought best to clear up any potential misinformation that might affect OP's decisions.

Also, as an aside, at the end of the day, I would never put a SB into any of my rental units because then there's not even the veneer of anonymity. Sure, my SBs could pull my license plate off my car when we go for a ride, or could follow me, or have me followed after a date. I hope I pick them wisely enough to avoid from having a crazy gal do that. I also agree with you that hell hath no fury like a woman's scorn, which is why I play my game using the techniques I've refined over time, and have done so with varying degrees of success. That all being said, the day that I ever consider putting a SB into a rental property that I own is the day that my SO leaves me because I slipped up somewhere. I'm hoping that doesn't happen anytime soon.[/QUOTE]I'm just reminded of the old advice not to leave a SB in a hotel room you've rented. Obviously, an apartment is 1000 x worse.

Definitely good advice. I have strayed from basic ground rules though from time to time. I have let a baby keep a hotel room after a day date so she could hang out there with her friends for the evening in town. It was an added perk for her that she appreciated. Long story short, I generally follow all the ground rules but have broken one or two from time to time with the right baby and only after a certain level of trust is established.

There was even one baby that I revealed my true identity to. She was amazingly hot and super innocent. I'll never do that again because of the risk that it has created about exposure, but I am relatively certain she wouldn't want details about the time she was a sugar baby to come out.

I guess all of this is to say that I've been known to make exceptions to every rule, and to also say that it's probably not very smart. That being said, everyone has their own risk tolerance.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3089657]I'm just reminded of the old advice not to leave a SB in a hotel room you've rented. Obviously, an apartment is 1000 x worse.[/QUOTE]

No, I'm not referring to the less savory SDs on the site, but to using its powers. I always favorite girls I message. This gives me a great way to monitor them and assess their level of interest. The page that summarizes your favorites tells you if they are online or when they were last on the site, in one convenient place. You can tell if you shouldn't worry about the lack of a reply b / c she hasn't been on SA, or if she has been online without response, without going to the message area to see if she read your message. On the recommendation of someone else on the thread, I message girls again maybe 5 or so days after the first message if I haven't heard from them. Some really hot ones (which I am still trying to land one of) could be deluged with messages right after they get on. If I can't get them to reply after that, I take them out of my favorites. Also, keep this in mind if a POT favorites you. She may just want to keep track of your activities. I have had girls make excuses for not communicating or M&G, but then I can see that they have been on the site. Obviously, they aren't into me and I should forget them. I also note that some girls seem to be on at odd hours for them. They may leave themselves logged in a lot. A luxury I can't afford as a married man.

The other perspective on favoriting is that people do that to profiles that interest them but they aren't sure about and might come back to. Not an auspicious situation, and OP have said you won't date someone who (just) favorites you.

I don't have any real photos of myself on SA b / c I am married, and don't want to worry about an eventual hack, like AM. I do try to get my photo to POTs early on, b / c I have had experiences where once she got my photo she went silent. Tough on the ego but the real world. I'm not Brad Pitt. I just don't want to waste a bunch of time messaging someone who's going to ghost. Some girls don't want to give up their email address, so with those I have uploaded a private pic long enough for them to see it, and then deleted it before leaving the site. It is also possible to email a photo to a cell phone #, provided they are on major carriers. I find it interesting that girls give up their #s easier than email. Mostly the young generation, though.