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Hey guys. Looking at an arrangement with an apartment as part of the deal. Anyone had any success with this? Thinking of a sublet situation so that I am not caught up in any other activity that might go on while I'm not around. Already knows my I'd so not a and issue. Maybe more a mistress than SB situation, but I thought this would be a good place to ask.
Thanks. I've also posted in the Raleigh forum but no responses. Med.
[QUOTE=MedJohnson;3088167]Hey guys. Looking at an arrangement with an apartment as part of the deal. Anyone had any success with this? Thinking of a sublet situation so that I am not caught up in any other activity that might go on while I'm not around. Already knows my I'd so not a and issue. Maybe more a mistress than SB situation, but I thought this would be a good place to ask.[/QUOTE]An apartment to take one girl (or many) to regularly, where you're the only one with the key? Or as a place to live for the SB?
I wouldn't let her live there, personally. A case that will illustrate. A couple of years ago I met a girl and she said she needed to talk to me on the phone right away to explain things (something I don't often do until I know them better). So I called her, and she was about as full-on Nando as they get. She said she had an SD for about 1. 5 years that put her up in an apartment. He was married, but for whatever reason after some time he decided he'd had enough and it was on to the next SB, so he told her they were done and she needed to move out of the place, he stopped paying rent and electric bill. Well by that time her life is completely dependent on the arrangement, so she had no where to go. They could not evict her immediately, days turn to weeks, she was living with no electricity or lights all. She still had water though, and she said at the first possible opportunity she was going to seal off the overflow drain on the bathtub and flood the place after she got her stuff out, just to pay him back.
I have no idea how it turned out, as I separated myself from that situation promptly. But even if she did not damage the place, he still now has an eviction on his rap sheet whether he realizes it or not. What's more, even if the arrangement had not taken a turn for the worse, the fact that he put the apartment in his name in the first place means there is an easily traceable credit / employment check, should the SB want to get a hold of him at work or if the wife should decide to investigate what he does on his free time.
Moral of the story is if you're looking for a place for her to live, don't put it in your name, or try to find a sublet situation like you said.
Renting a place for a convenient secondary FC may not be a bad idea though, just don't leave her there unattended.
[QUOTE=MedJohnson;3088167]Hey guys. Looking at an arrangement with an apartment as part of the deal. Anyone had any success with this? Thinking of a sublet situation so that I am not caught up in any other activity that might go on while I'm not around. Already knows my I'd so not a and issue. Maybe more a mistress than SB situation, but I thought this would be a good place to ask.
Thanks. I've also posted in the Raleigh forum but no responses. Med.[/QUOTE]I have another story to add to JL's experience. I had a rental in a developing area (slum). I put an "SB" in with biweekly requirement to service the landlord. At first she had one excuse after another to avoid me, and I was limited by my own schedule. After awhile she moved at least one worthless BF in with her. Since I have an SO I was reluctant to move against her aggressively. I finally got her ass out and will never again do that. Tenants have all the rights even if everything is on the legal up and up. What are you going to do -take her to court?
Hey Bike. Hope your adventures in the bowl have been fun filled. The trick to my success isn't with anything that I do, but rather in who I select. I've pulled my fair share of stalkers and crazies during the days when I using SA and have gotten pretty good at filtering them. In terms of characteristics, a few red flags for me are:
1. Older; 2. Attend higher end schools / grad students; 3. Give the impression that they are entitled / privileged; 4. Inability to remove themselves from social media; 5. More than 1,000 friends / followers on whatever social media sites they have profiles on; 6. overdeveloped sense of ego; etc.
The characteristics I look for are:
1. Younger; 2. Comes from a blue collar background; 3. Not reliant on parents for paying for school; 4. Genuine appreciation for something as small as buying coffee for them at the interview; 5. True desire for mentorship; 6. obedient/submissive - is good at doing what their told; etc.
My two current interns are happy to get paid $15 an hour for any projects that I assign to them. These are discrete tasks, and I dictate the amount of hours that I think they should be spending on them. For example, if I get a call from a tenant at one of my rental properties and the fridge is broken, I get the tenant to provide me with the dimensions of the fridge. Then I call one of my interns and tell her that I need her to find a fridge that matches the exact dimensions; has the replacement characteristics that I want (e. G. Icemaker, water dispenser, etc.), and is the lowest cost. I'll also tell her to check all the major big box stores and online to get the best deal. Then I'll tell her to spend 3 hours on the task and to send me a spreadsheet that breaks down at least 4 different refrigerators that fit the criteria I need and the cost of each fridge from Home Depot, Lowes, Sears, and Amazon. Depending on the rental, I might choose a higher end fridge to match the investment, or might just go with the cheapest model.
She's gaining life skills (e. G. Why you should always shop around before you buy; how to build a spreadsheet; etc.). You'd be surprised how many young people nowadays lack these basic skills or don't realize the potential savings you can make by shopping around. I personally don't have time to shop around for a new fridge in one of my rentals; I don't want my tenant to buy a "gold plated" fridge to replace the one that is broken; and so the intern adds real value. By paying $45 bucks, I save $200; spend time talking to my "intern," and then all I have to do is order the appliance from the store and have it delivered.
Those are the kinds of projects that I assign. They don't provide any real information, but provide value to me.
With regard to the initial meeting. The same rules I used when pulling babies from SA apply to my situation now. When posting CL ads, or putting a flyer at a local community college; etc. , I'll include my SD name, and my SD e-mail address. The post will request that interested applicants send me an e-mail providing a copy of their resume and their phone number. I use the phone number and name to pull their facebook page / twitter / etc. Which gives me enough information to determine whether they get granted an interview. Its amazing how much information some people post on their social media accounts. Then during the interview, I check them out.
During the interview, the information they get is all the same as I would give during a more "traditional" meet and greet. The technique I use is generally the same I describe in my post about interviewing applicants pulled from task oriented job websites (just click my profile name and search through to find that post). After the projects / assignments start rolling in, my current interns have become comfortable that I am who I say I am. They were also carefully culled from a larger pool (I've gone through a large number of interviews, and a large number of interns. Many only received one or two projects because they didn't fit the mold I was looking for, had too many questions, etc.). Both my current interns were "broken in" after first assigning them 2/3 projects and a number of conversations where I established rapport, and figured out whether they would fit what I was looking for.
I started the SD / SB aspect of the relationship with my current intern SB rotation after taking them out to dinner to thank them for a project, joked during the meal that the waitress probably thinks I'm your sugar daddy, which then inevitably led to a conversation about the sugar world; how I used to play in it, and then how they either had a profile for a short time but deactivated it, or how they wanted to create one, but was too scared to do so. After that, turning them into a SB was easy.
Don't get me wrong. The whole process took a ton of work. I'm not some self-absorbed narcissist who thinks that he's god's gift to women. I'm a semi-decent looking guy, who is in shape, and can make a gal laugh. SA's popularity; the MTV show: True Life "I'm a sugar baby," and the loose morals as well as the strong tendency today for girls to believe they should be able to have sex with as many guys as they want, are key. Also, I've encountered a ton of failure. For example, I interviewed one young lady and when I pulled my chair next to hers to go over her resume, she initiated touching, came in close, purposely brushed her hair and her leg against mine. I thought she was a shoe in for my rotation. After developing great rapport and after her third project, I took her out to dinner at a nice restaurant to celebrate. She was super flirty until I laid out my joke about how if we kept laughing and flirting like we were during dinner, the waitstaff was going to think she was my sugar baby. Instead of laughing and the evening taking the direction that I thought it would. She shut down and became extremely uncomfortable. I got the impression that she was one of those girls that uses sex to get jobs, but had no desire to take things to the next level. I cut her from the rotation after she did a crappy job on the last assignment I gave to her.
My current babies are fabulous. They were all so eager to start the relationship, that I was floored. It was very much like the post that whistles wrote (the one I included in my prior post). Most importantly, it became pretty clear to me that for them, having a little bit of mystery and not oversharing my entire life or being slightly dodgy about all the details of my life, adds to the mystery for them and makes them even wetter when I call them in to discuss a project.
If you have any other questions about anything else, or specific questions, just PM me.
[QUOTE=BikeRider;3087624]Fish I appreciate your view point. I'm incredibly impressed you've been able to hire interns without giving up any personal information. Having beaten back more than my fair share of stalkers who were able to piece together a few bread crumbs, I'd love to hear more about you can so successfully compartmentalize. I also have a number of investments, businesses, and I've not a clue how to get interns to help with that work without giving away personal information. Anything you can share is greatly appreciated.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=FredMoore;3088392]I have another story to add to JL's experience. I had a rental in a developing area (slum). I put an "SB" in with biweekly requirement to service the landlord. At first she had one excuse after another to avoid me, and I was limited by my own schedule. After awhile she moved at least one worthless BF in with her. Since I have an SO I was reluctant to move against her aggressively. I finally got her ass out and will never again do that. Tenants have all the rights even if everything is on the legal up and up. What are you going to do -take her to court?[/QUOTE]Yes, I'm looking for a place for a SB to live so I can drop in to visit. Hoping this situation might be more appealing to a SB with no actual exchange occurring. Will have to keep trying to sort it out.
Thanks again.
Med.
Presumably, you were going to put the lease / sublease in your name? If so, bad idea. Instead to avoid problems just have her put her name on the lease / sublease. Then let her know that you'll provide her with the funds to cover or help cover the rent.
If she balks and says that she wants you to put your name on the legal docs, then tell her that you'll front the security deposit. Go with her to the leasing office / meeting with landlord, and then pay the deposit in cash.
If the problem is that her credit won't allow for her to have the lease / sublease in her name, than tell the leasing agent / landlord that she is willing to pay a higher security deposit, first month's rent, and / or last month's rent. As a landlord, I'll take a crappy credit risk in exchange for security deposit, first month's rent, and last month's rent since I know I have three months to go through the eviction process and not have to worry about paying the debt service on the investment.
The advice above all presumes that you have the money to do this (I'm presuming you do if you're willing to put the lease in your name) and that you have a pre-existing relationship with the SB. If that's the case, then you've pretty much cemented her reliance on you, and you've completely eliminated hotel costs while guaranteeing that she will be calling you at the end of the month so that she can suck daddy's d*ck for next month's rent money.
On the other hand, fi that's not the case and you don't have a prior relationship, than caveat emptor (not legal advice, just Latin for buyer beware). There are plenty of tales from this forum that detail SDs getting rinsed or going through hell and back because of bad decisions.
[QUOTE=MedJohnson;3088167]Hey guys. Looking at an arrangement with an apartment as part of the deal. Anyone had any success with this? Thinking of a sublet situation so that I am not caught up in any other activity that might go on while I'm not around. Already knows my I'd so not a and issue. Maybe more a mistress than SB situation, but I thought this would be a good place to ask.
Thanks. I've also posted in the Raleigh forum but no responses. Med.[/QUOTE]
Just to clarify, when I ask my "interns" (I've been putting quotes around them for a reason) to do "project / assignment" for me, I provide the guidance on what I'm looking for, and the number of hours I expect the job / task to be finished. My "interns" do the work from their homes, from their own computers, and by a certain deadline. Its also why I make the final decision about what fridge to buy and what store to buy it from.
By keeping key parts of information from my "interns" it protects my identity and makes them more of a "contractor" than an "employee" that I control. Also, because I only provide a few discrete tasks from week to week, the number of hours they work are limited. I make it up to them by paying $15 an hour.
Then they cum to me in my office after a "project/assignment" is completed, and for the purposes of thanking them for a job well done.
The most important aspect of this is finding someone who doesn't have the personality type that will result in severe negative blowback. I've found that in my younger, more foolish days, when I used to think I was god's gift to humanity, I couldn't differentiate well, had real difficulty reading people, and so had to be more careful. Hubris and arrogance can do that to a narcissist. At the end of the day though, doesn't matter if you've done anything wrong or anything that could result in real legal trouble, because if you choose the wrong baby - the simple fact that they think you did something wrong, or if they think that you've done something illegal, you've lost - irrespective of whether you did or not.
Having a cop show up to your door to investigate a crime that doesn't exist and that you didn't commit can destroy your life just as easily as if you did do something wrong. At the end of the day, success in the bowl means choosing your SBs carefully and forcing your little head to listen to your big one.
I won't browbeat anyone with pseudo legal advice, so here is the link so folks can make their own independent decisions and judgments about the reporting requirements that might come with asking someone to perform a discrete task or project on your behalf.
[URL]https://www.irs.gov/uac/employment-taxes-and-classifying-workers[/URL]
Behavioral control.
Financial control.
Type of relationship.
Behavioral control relates to whether the business has a right to direct and control how the worker performs the task for which they are hired. In general, anyone who performs services for you is your employee if you can control what will be done and how it will be done. This is so even when you give the employee freedom of action. What matters is that the employer has the right to control the details of how the services are performed. Such details include:
When and where to do the work.
What tools or equipment to use.
What workers to hire or to assist with the work.
Where to purchase supplies and services.
What work must be performed by a specified individual.
What order or sequence to follow.
An eviction will not show up in any sort of criminal report. At worst, an eviction will result in a negative report on your credit. And only if you put your name on the lease. If you're going to put a baby up in a room, then make sure its in her name not yours.
[QUOTE=JeezLizard;3087646]I didn't see the original message, but I'll play captain obvious here for a moment to point out that the only way to hire an employee and have no link to your identity is to pay them under the table. Under reported taxes by the employee are often viewed as tax negligence, but when it's done by the employer it's usually regarded as tax fraud. So now the SB can hold a felony over your head if she doesn't get her way.
One of the most catastrophically bad ideas I've even heard of in this forum. Hiring an SB for legit employment and risking the sexual harassment aspect is batting at one level of bad ideas, but paying an SB under the table for actual employment tasks (as opposed to dating gifts) is a next-level bad idea.
Like I said, I didn't see the original message so I have no idea of what was said, but considering the history of past advice in this forum, it shouldn't take a lot of thinking to figure out that an employee either gets a W2 or she doesn't. If she doesn't, she's only an SB and not an employee (and unless she's had traumatic brain injury she will certainly realize the difference).[/QUOTE]There are no shortage of ideas in the bowl. Some good, some bad, but the key is each brother needs to decide what is right for him. Fish has developed a routine that works for and is comfortable for him. I want to hear how he manages his routine so I can learn and apply in my routine if it fits.
As for paying under the table, welcome to the real world. The vast majority of our economy (at the low end) works under the table. I don't expect to get nominated for the supreme court nor run for public office, and so this is something that might work for me. Sure, the SB could report you to the IRS but she'd be hurt more on the penalty for not reporting income and paying taxes. None of us are big enough fish for the feds to give her immunity.
Finally, I agree that the hiring as a W2 employee is a bad idea. W9 contractors have a much more difficult time proving sexual harassment (at least according to my lawyers YMMV). Can she still create a shit storm, yes. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. I just spend a shit load on them each year to keep my a$$ out of trouble.
Again. We all have our comfort level for various situations. I love this forum because it is an open mic for us to share.
Great post, and agree with you on all points but your last. Over time this forum has become less and less of an open mic for all to share. If you go back through the thread, you'll note that too often over the past two years Admin has had to jump in and delete posts that could be characterized as less than congenial. You'll also notice a running theme to all the deleted posts.
[QUOTE=BikeRider;3088534]There are no shortage of ideas in the bowl. Some good, some bad, but the key is each brother needs to decide what is right for him. Fish has developed a routine that works for and is comfortable for him. I want to hear how he manages his routine so I can learn and apply in my routine if it fits.
As for paying under the table, welcome to the real world. The vast majority of our economy (at the low end) works under the table. I don't expect to get nominated for the supreme court nor run for public office, and so this is something that might work for me. Sure, the SB could report you to the IRS but she'd be hurt more on the penalty for not reporting income and paying taxes. None of us are big enough fish for the feds to give her immunity.
Finally, I agree that the hiring as a W2 employee is a bad idea. W9 contractors have a much more difficult time proving sexual harassment (at least according to my lawyers YMMV). Can she still create a shit storm, yes. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. I just spend a shit load on them each year to keep my a$$ out of trouble.
Again. We all have our comfort level for various situations. I love this forum because it is an open mic for us to share.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;3088508]An eviction will not show up in any sort of criminal report. At worst, an eviction will result in a negative report on your credit. And only if you put your name on the lease. If you're going to put a baby up in a room, then make sure its in her name not yours.[/QUOTE]An eviction would not be in criminal court, it would be in Civil Court. That is if one follows the proper procedures and gets the courts involved to evict the the person. Civil Cases are searchable as well as criminal ones. If you are the lessee and she defaults on the lease, then yes, your credit will take a hit as well as potentially having the civil record showing the default.
The point is that it makes sense to avoid becoming a landlord to a SB or letting her use a place you rent. If you are the landlord and try to evict her, just imagine if she shows up at the Civil Court and testifies as to a sexual relationship that is understood as compensation for the rent. Then your SB activity is memorialized in the court record! Don; t think she will do it? Se the post by OP who mentioned that the SB planned to flood the apartment on her eviction. How about if she smashes up all of the fixtures in the bathroom, ruins the carpets, spary paints the walls, lets a dog mess all over the place? Remember H*ll hath no fury like a woman scorned!
[QUOTE=BikeRider;3088534]
As for paying under the table, welcome to the real world. The vast majority of our economy (at the low end) works under the table. I don't expect to get nominated for the supreme court nor run for public office, and so this is something that might work for me. Sure, the SB could report you to the IRS but she'd be hurt more on the penalty for not reporting income and paying taxes. None of us are big enough fish for the feds to give her immunity.
[/QUOTE]No doubt a lot of tipped employees don't report cash, if that's what you mean. Beyond that, my career is not directly involved with the low-end, so I can't tell anyone how the other half lives other than to say that if all of these restaurants and low level service jobs were truly paying their employees exclusively under the table, they would not be in business for more than a year or two. Most employees that have some level of their income going unreported do simultaneously have some of their income reported and are on the books as an employee one way or another. My point wasn't to examine how much income is reported versus how much is not, my point was that for them to employ the staff at all, at some point they have to acknowledge that staff member as an employee with the IRS and fill out the proper paperwork. This would be a bad idea for an SD from the sexual harassment angle and from the basis of your original question which was how to do this and keep your identity hidden. Most of those employees you refer to at the low-end know EXACTLY who their boss is, where he lives, who is wife is, and in many cases what pushes his buttons.
If an employers ultimate goal is to hire that employee exclusively to fuck them, then doing so is the bad idea I was referring to. Paying them legitimately makes you vulnerable in the sense that your involvement with them is documentable and tied to your identity. Paying them under the table makes you vulnerable in the sense that they now have leverage to use against you if for some reason the arrangement should go sideways. My comment was not applicable to a guy who runs a small-project construction business hiring a few illegals under the table, it was geared toward the typical SD (who typically has an SO to hide all of this from).
To clarify, when I spoke of it being a bad idea I did not mean in the sense that anyone would go to jail for paying an SB under the table or that anyone would catch the attention of feds. I was saying that the average SD does not need the stress of an SB dangling the possible reporting of a felony over his head, should she decide to use that as leverage against him. Sprinkle a dose of sexual harassment in with a little tax fraud, and you never know who might knock on your door one day when you least want the wife to know about it. Regardless of actual legal consequences, nobody needs that kind of hassle. To ever give an SB that sort of leverage is losing dominant control of the relationship. That was my point, even if I didn't explain it very thoroughly the first time around.
But at the end of the day it's just my opinion, and I wouldn't ask anyone to necessarily subscribe to it.
When I read your message, I believed you were alluding to the idea of having an SB that gets an allowance in addition to actual employment. Paying her a cash allowance that covers both "dating" and whatever other tasks she is doing for you is not the same as making her an employee of one of your businesses. I do realize you didn't say that's what you necessarily wanted to do, just telling you that's what I read into it. What it really seems you want is a way to hire someone under the table to work with your businesses and investments without revealing your identity? If so, then I'd still say it's potentially asking for trouble to be fucking that person in any capacity, but again it's just my opinion and I'm not trying to force it on anyone. I personally wouldn't let anyone touch my personal investments who was interested in an illegal payroll arrangement, but that's just me.
[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3088592]An eviction would not be in criminal court, it would be in Civil Court. That is if one follows the proper procedures and gets the courts involved to evict the the person. Civil Cases are searchable as well as criminal ones. If you are the lessee and she defaults on the lease, then yes, your credit will take a hit as well as potentially having the civil record showing the default.
The point is that it makes sense to avoid becoming a landlord to a SB or letting her use a place you rent. If you are the landlord and try to evict her, just imagine if she shows up at the Civil Court and testifies as to a sexual relationship that is understood as compensation for the rent. Then your SB activity is memorialized in the court record! Don; t think she will do it? Se the post by OP who mentioned that the SB planned to flood the apartment on her eviction. How about if she smashes up all of the fixtures in the bathroom, ruins the carpets, spary paints the walls, lets a dog mess all over the place? Remember H*ll hath no fury like a woman scorned![/QUOTE]Getting an eviction on his record could be very bad for a married man. Imagine if his career suddenly takes him to another state, where he needs to pack up the wife and kids and rent a new place in that state. Oh? What's this? Can't find an apartment or home within a 100 mile radius of the new job due to that nasty eviction on your record? That ought to be fun to explain to the wife. Not to mention as you said, if the wife gets suspicious and investigates, the data about the eviction (including the name of the other girl on the lease, which most apartments require) would be some of the first information available to her.
It's the kind of logic like an "eviction on the record is nothing to worry about" that reminds me of one of the reasons why I placed certain individuals on ignore. Secondary reasons of course to the relentless, stalking / harassing PMs they were sending me, but good reasons nonetheless.
[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;3088552]Great post, and agree with you on all points but your last. Over time this forum has become less and less of an open mic for all to share. If you go back through the thread, you'll note that too often over the past two years Admin has had to jump in and delete posts that could be characterized as less than congenial. You'll also notice a running theme to all the deleted posts.[/QUOTE]You are right. I was hoping to point us back in the right direction where we help one an another and respect alternative view points.
[QUOTE=BikeRider;3088604]You are right. I was hoping to point us back in the right direction where we help one an another and respect alternative view points.[/QUOTE]For the record, I do respect your viewpoints, I'm just offering mine. And, he is not right. The messages that have been deleted here were deleted because I reported them to Admin2. If you don't believe, ask Admin2.