"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Attaboy. I have often thought this was a worthwhile tactic, as the sense I have from reading the threads is some girls are simply clueless or haven't thought through their profiles or intentions very well. It is a matter of how much time you have to spend cultivating a girl and how many other POTs you are dealing with. I do see some very attractive profiles that say stuff like platonic or whatever. Someone here said they ignored the $ expectations from POTs <22, b / c they are just clueless and may not even know the parameters SA puts on the descriptors. I was messaging with a 24 YO and she wanted to know what allowance I could do for an exclusive. I looked at the descriptor below the one she had listed ('up to blah-blah') and said 'at least blah-blah', so I thought I was in her zone. She replied 'no, I couldn't do that'. We texted a little more but she seemed to lose interest.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3061413]I viewed a profile today that had high expectations and a clear no sexual relations statement. I usually just move on, but chose to message her to see how her search was going.

I was very polite and just expressed surprise that I had never seen both in the same profile and wanted to know how her search was going. To my surprise, she replied with an interest in my profile and explained that she had not had any luck since everyone was interested in sex.

I clearly explained that although I didn't want an arrangement based only on sex, I'm sure no arrangement would hold my attention if sex wasn't part of the agreement.

We messaged back and forth for a while and she is now interested in meeting with an understanding of my expectations.

We will see how it proceeds, but it was clear she had no concept of how much "high" really is and thought there would be no men she was actually attracted to.

More to come....[/QUOTE]

Their are issues on a variety of levels with the whole pi gps. As mentioned laws vary from state to state but really a pi isn't going to care in many instances of having admissable evidence as long as it's proof to the wife. That being said most how units get Better signal close to the road and quick inspection visual would make it obvious however battery life is also an issue. Wheel wells or near the trunk or undercarriage either tapped or magnetically connected. A good hlgps tracker will need a hardwired power source from your vehicle. At any rate, while possible it's highly unlikely you will be a target. As to running your plate, that's not happening legally and without a cop friend or something similar.

[QUOTE=Moohk;3061992]Their are issues on a variety of levels with the whole pi gps. As mentioned laws vary from state to state but really a pi isn't going to care in many instances of having admissable evidence as long as it's proof to the wife. [/QUOTE]The issue about the state laws though is not whether it's admissible evidence or not, it's whether the PI can legally do it at all in that state. This is where the community property issue I mentioned and who owns the car comes into question.

PIs go to a lot of trouble to get their license and will not do anything to risk getting it taken away, so the laws on what they can or cannot do take precedence in their decision on which assignments to accept. This is why it matters not only what the cyberstalking laws are in which state, and what provisions that state allows a PI that is licensed , and whether or not the state is a community property state, but also whether that state requires licensure of a PI (most of them do I believe, but if the state doesn't, its an extra parameter to consider because it means the PI has the option of risking a charge without loss of career if the money is good enough. I doubt a decent PI Would risk getting arrested but in states with non-licensed PI s there are a lot of shady PI want to be).

Running a plate is generally easier than you might think. Someone with a reasonable arsenal of hacking skills can often get to that data just by putting a county vehicle property tax site through a few paces it wasn't designed to be put under. A good PI would probably do it through some sort of pretext attack and or friends at the courthouse. An divorce attorney can subpoena them. But of course the wife doesn't need license plate identification, that's more about the SB finding you out. An SB always has the option of paying with her pussy, so if she posts a Craigslist ad in some nearby city saying she will fuck the first computer hacker than can find out the owner of a tag, she will probably have everything she needs in a couple of hours.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;3062074]The issue about the state laws though is not whether it's admissible evidence or not, it's whether the PI can legally do it at all in that state. This is where the community property issue I mentioned and who owns the car comes into question.

PIs go to a lot of trouble to get their license and will not do anything to risk getting it taken away, so the laws on what they can or cannot do take precedence in their decision on which assignments to accept. This is why it matters not only what the cyberstalking laws are in which state, and what provisions that state allows a PI that is licensed , and whether or not the state is a community property state, but also whether that state requires licensure of a PI (most of them do I believe, but if the state doesn't, its an extra parameter to consider because it means the PI has the option of risking a charge without loss of career if the money is good enough. I doubt a decent PI Would risk getting arrested but in states with non-licensed PI s there are a lot of shady PI want to be).

Running a plate is generally easier than you might think. Someone with a reasonable arsenal of hacking skills can often get to that data just by putting a county vehicle property tax site through a few paces it wasn't designed to be put under. A good PI would probably do it through some sort of pretext attack and or friends at the courthouse. An divorce attorney can subpoena them. But of course the wife doesn't need license plate identification, that's more about the SB finding you out. An SB always has the option of paying with her pussy, so if she posts a Craigslist ad in some nearby city saying she will fuck the first computer hacker than can find out the owner of a tag, she will probably have everything she needs in a couple of hours.[/QUOTE]Not to get into a dick measuring contest, especially since I don't really disagree with you either. Not every state requires PIs to be licensed though the majority do. I do disagree about the notion that they all try to remain lawful. There are many a PI that will be bend and break laws to get the job done. Just like bail bondsman, they are generally licensed as well and many are upstanding folks but the reality is a number are not. A PI that works for himself has no one to report to for their ethical practices but themselves.

An SB putting an ad on Craigslist, ya maybe. Or having a friend or relative who is le that's pretty likely. So, that's possible but while it's always best to be prepared it's highly unlikely. It's always good practice to have your head on a swivel a be situationally aware. You are more likely to be physically tailed anyway. The most likely gps tracker is your own phone, so don't use location services and change all your Google settings to turn all tracking off.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3058984] One point about the license plate. I mentioned in other posts I have an alternative plate I use for that last 1/4 mile before the M&G or FC. It is a pain to stop at a discreet spot (hello officer. Just swapping out my license plate) I scout out in advance to put it on or take it off, but I still do it every time. OpSec. [/QUOTE]DUDE! You are doing WAY too much work!

[URL]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-License-plate-frame-FLIPPER-turn-off-American-USA-type-1PC-in-Set-NEW-/262604581625?hash=item3d2473eaf9:g:RBgAAOSw9eVXT~Mp&vxp=mtr[/URL]

Why get out of the comfort of your car, when you can just flick a switch?

Yea, my SO will *never* notice that. She loves cars, actually and does pay pretty close attention to mine.

This kind of James Bond stuff we have to do does add a little to the fun of sugaring, actually.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3062152]DUDE! You are doing WAY too much work!

[URL]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-License-plate-frame-FLIPPER-turn-off-American-USA-type-1PC-in-Set-NEW-/262604581625?hash=item3d2473eaf9:g:RBgAAOSw9eVXT~Mp&vxp=mtr[/URL]

Why get out of the comfort of your car, when you can just flick a switch?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Moohk;3062093]Not to get into a dick measuring contest, especially since I don't really disagree with you either. Not every state requires PIs to be licensed though the majority do. I do disagree about the notion that they all try to remain lawful. There are many a PI that will be bend and break laws to get the job done. Just like bail bondsman, they are generally licensed as well and many are upstanding folks but the reality is a number are not. A PI that works for himself has no one to report to for their ethical practices but themselves.

An SB putting an ad on Craigslist, ya maybe. Or having a friend or relative who is le that's pretty likely. So, that's possible but while it's always best to be prepared it's highly unlikely. It's always good practice to have your head on a swivel a be situationally aware. You are more likely to be physically tailed anyway. The most likely gps tracker is your own phone, so don't use location services and change all your Google settings to turn all tracking off.[/QUOTE]I'm just clarifying why I said what I said about why the state a person is in matters. Keep in mind that my comments about what a PI will and will not do, as I mentioned in my prior message, apply to a DECENT PI (and one who likes staying employed). Since the states that do require a PI license (most of them) require more than just taking a crash course on the subject (specific investigative law enforcement experience, usually), this means that most of the people who do have PI licenses have a not only very good concept of legal limits, a background in law enforcement, and thus they know it would not be good for their career to lose their license (major career damage), to get arrested or even to have their name portrayed negatively in a civil trial. In most states, if he does NOT have PI license (since you mentioned unlicensed ones), he cannot get away with some of the same things that a PI needs to do (for example you cannot put a tracker on a car even with community property loophole in place, you may not have access to certain records at the courthouse, illegal for you to perform background checks, not to mention most websites that cater to this market will only allow licensed investigators in, and many of them are expensive enough that he needs to be doing this full time in order to justify the website access expenses). There's a lot more to investigating than just following people or catching cheaters, and a good number of those activities require a license. Again cyberstalking laws are an issue -- following people around without a PI license is generally not legal, the license lets them around that one. Usually the only way to side step the license requirement for investigative law enforcement experience is to get hired by something like an insurance company that trains you and performs investigations, and that option varies state to state. A PI cannot set up a shop without a license in most cases, they would be incapable of getting business insurance (absolute must in that business) because nobody would insure a self-described unlicensed investigator. In some states it may be illegal to practice any form of it or call oneself a PI without a license.

For most of them, acting as an expert witness is a part of what they do (potentially lucrative) and while they cannot legally be compensated for regular court testimony by law, it still plays a big part in their career and they cannot afford to do ANYTHING that would jeopardize their credibility like end up with a mugshot that shows up in search engines. If they aren't smart enough to realize that, they are likely not smart enough to pass the PI exam.

What I think you may be talking about when you say "bend and break the law" is doing something that is "gray area" like pretexting and exploiting loopholes. The way PIs manage their career on TV shows and how they do it in real life is very different. An example of gray area is that most states require them to stay within the bounds of "reasonable expectation of privacy". For example, you can't plant a pinhole camera in a bathroom because there is a reasonable expectation of privacy, but you can plant one in a kitchen in some areas. You can't climb a tree to look over a suspects fence to see what he's doing in the privacy of his yard, but you may be able to rent the house next door and set up second story surveillance post if it happens to have a view of his backyard (because the expectation is that his yard is already visible from the window). Understanding and being able to surf that line is what makes a PI a PI, without it they won't stay one long -- a PI that blatantly breaks the law is going to have his career come tumbling down the moment that evidence appears in divorce court.

And no, they can't just install a tracker on a persons phone because reasonable expectation of privacy (I realize that may not be what you meant by the phone being the most likely GPS Moohk, and for the record I'd say you're right that with careless use of location services and phone-finding technology it is a somewhat dangerous feature. I also agree that GPS tracking and PI surveillance is probably not as common as this thread may seem to portray it, but it does happen sometimes when the wifey has made up her mind, wants to maximize her cash-in opportunity and court leverage, and / or simply confirm her suspicions).

I would encourage anyone interested in the subject to not take my word for it, find a PI in your state or the places they hang out on the web and ask about this as it applies to your particular state and current laws. Laws change all the time, too, and some of my knowledge is not completely up to date, although I feel good about standing behind everything I've said above. Understand I'm not interested in a dick measuring contest either, but I will point out that I've read pretty much every how-to manual on private investigation that is currently available for sale to the public, about half a dozen more that are no longer in publication, and about a dozen more publications that were leaked or otherwise never intended for public consumption, so while I'm not an expert in the matter, I'm also not talking about this stuff out of my ass.

I always encourage anyone to not take the word of someone you meet on a monger forum, research this stuff yourself. The subject is a complicated one and cannot be adequately covered by a bunch of anonymous people in a forum like this, no matter what, so if anyone has a true stake in the game I encourage them to proactively research this on their own, with the help of a licensed PI in their state, if that matters to them. A good PI can even give you tips on how things work, and many of them take on small by-the-hour jobs when they are bored and you might be able to get some current, valid-in-your-state advice for not too much consulting fees. It may actually be a decent investment for those with a lot to lose.

[QUOTE=MoonlightGam;3061150]I have been in the bowl for over two years, and one thing I have found is that it is often feast or famine. I've had weeks when it looked like I might end up meeting as many as four girls the next week, and it turns out that I end up meeting none. Other times, I've thought that I was entering a drought, and all of a sudden there's more than I can handle. That makes it hard to calibrate the number of POTs to be interacting with at once, and it means that sometimes I've had to put things on hold when it looked like I was heading toward meeting someone. What I've often done is to tell them that there was someone that I was talking with before I was talking to her and that I didn't think that it was going to go anywhere but it unexpectedly is, but that if it doesn't go anywhere I'm really still interested in meeting them. So, it's not so much that I'm telling them that they're my second choice in a head-to-head contest, but rather that someone else got there first. (My job is not such that long job-related absences would be plausible, which they wouldn't know at this time, but they might know later if I end up meeting them). I've usually had fairly positive reactions that and have been able to go back a couple of times to someone I had earlier been talking to. Mostly, I think they appreciate that I didn't just go dark on them when I told them I couldn't meet them right away, which I guess is a common experience.

I can't say that this is the optimal approach, but it has worked reasonably well for me.

I must say that I love the bowl. I am in my mid-60's and am enjoying the best sex of my life with girls who are one-half to one-third my age. I've met a number of extremely attractive, bright, fun girls this way. It is so much better than seeing escorts (although I have seen several escorts who were top-notch people).[/QUOTE]I always say if it works, keep doing it. I think the way you present it to them is a reasonable variation on things, and a lot of girls will take an understanding stance. I am one of those feast or famine people you mentioned -- I go on SB "binges" where I am either going out of town or my SO is out of town. At that point, my goal is to maximize the number of opportunities within a relatively short window of time. Those who have a more of an ongoing and steady pace may find other techniques work better for them than the ones I put forth here. You might lose a few girls by saying "I met her first", but if you keep it going long enough you'll have a first and second string lineup at all times and never really miss the ones that do drop.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3062152]DUDE! You are doing WAY too much work!
[URL]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-License-plate-frame-FLIPPER-turn-off-American-USA-type-1PC-in-Set-NEW-/262604581625?hash=item3d2473eaf9:g:RBgAAOSw9eVXT~Mp&vxp=mtr[/URL]
Why get out of the comfort of your car, when you can just flick a switch?[/QUOTE]With any kind of plate switching (manual or automatic), I worry about the risk of getting caught by the cop being worse than identity being revealed to the SB (guess it depends on the specific penalties for concealing a license plate in a given state)?

All I will say is this, you are extremely knowledgeable. Their is theory and their is practice, I have 10 years of experience in the field of investigation. I do not have a pi license as I don't need one for what I do. What I've seen professionals do, or what I'm aware that they have done including le. I will just say, people do not play by the rules all the time and get away with it even when it's known. It's not tv.

As for as your phone location services integrate with social media. As of right now few laws governing it. It's fair game, so you are supposed to be in a whole other city.

You got your burner, etc. And you tweet something on your main phone which has this crap enabled. I can give a real world example of a burglary that the idiots got caught because the get away driver tweeted the whole way through.

[QUOTE=Moohk;3062456]All I will say is this, you are extremely knowledgeable. Their is theory and their is practice, I have 10 years of experience in the field of investigation. I do not have a pi license as I don't need one for what I do. What I've seen professionals do, or what I'm aware that they have done including le. I will just say, people do not play by the rules all the time and get away with it even when it's known. It's not tv.

As for as your phone location services integrate with social media. As of right now few laws governing it. It's fair game, so you are supposed to be in a whole other city.

You got your burner, etc. And you tweet something on your main phone which has this crap enabled. I can give a real world example of a burglary that the idiots got caught because the get away driver tweeted the whole way through.[/QUOTE]Yes, experience is a big factor with private investigation, and for that reason only the words of an experienced licensed private investigator should be trusted regarding what they will or won't do -- that's why I recommend doing that to anyone with a strong interest in this. Find a local licensed PI who is in touch with the laws that will matter to you. Once someone forgoes the license requirement, it's all bets off on whether they stay within the law or not (as they obviously have less career risk if they are not licensed). In some ways, a non-licensed investigator, or even just someone with the interest and knowledge to perform investigative tasks, might actually be bigger threats -- they may actually have the upper hand on licensed PIs in some ways because they may sidestep the law with or without realizing it (perhaps without ever getting caught). This aligns to my comment about an SB posting on CL (or Facebook or even SA for that matter) that she has a kink for dating people who can help her get information. A real PI would likely never bite, but someone good at hacking websites or a strong interest in the subject might.

However, I see that particular scenario (an SB who wants to know more about her SD and is willing to pay or fuck for it) as something that could indirectly lead to financial loss for the SD (in the sense that the SB could use the info to intimidate him or get her way), but not the same or as directly as a wife that wants proof of the husbands cheating for court. The guy who knows how to hack websites and / or launch social engineering measures is not going to be able to write up a report that she can take to the judge and testify to back it up (and those reports are everything in these cases). If the wife has a friend that has a boyfriend with a rap sheet that just happens to have a DSLR with a zoom lens, and doesn't care if he breaks the law because he already has enough charges lined up, she might get pictures of the SD with his SB, and she might be able to scare him with them, but the reality of that situation is that most likely if the SD calls the cops, the wife who paid for the illegally taken photos is in more trouble than the SD so she has just defeated her purpose. Most wives won't do this, though. They usually start with a divorce attorney, and that attorney advises them of the importance of using a licensed PI to progress their case. Also a non-licensed investigator is not particularly useful, because in practice most of them do a lot of skip-tracing work, chasing child support non-payers, runaways etc. If they are limited to operating in only Alabama, Alaska, Wyoming, etc. (only a few more states don't require license), then as a PI they are not going to be able to operate in some of the states they will need to. They also won't be able to carry a firearm on a plane without a license and sometimes they have to board a plane at the last minute to follow someone (not sure how that has changed past 911). For this reason it is my understanding that most professional PIs get licensed even if their state does not require it.

As far as social media in general (I. E. Hidden geo location data embedded into pictures, posts, etc), yes you are spot on there. Social media and privacy are like oil and water.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;3062422]With any kind of plate switching (manual or automatic), I worry about the risk of getting caught by the cop being worse than identity being revealed to the SB (guess it depends on the specific penalties for concealing a license plate in a given state)?[/QUOTE]I assume one only flips to the "blank plate" or not normal plate only while picking up or dropping off the girl or when she is likely to be around. Then, when one is far enough away to not be seen or photographed, flip the switch and go back to normal / valid plate. Should be less chance for detection than pulling over to a gas station several blocks away, getting out, switching plates and then proceeding to the date. Shoot if one parks appropriately on private property, where is any law broken if a valid plate isn't visible?

But perhaps having a valid story about having a plate covered is in order if one "forgets" and gets stopped.

Sans that, how one drives and parks can be protective as well. After all 19 states do not require a front plate! Looks like most of the ones surrounding VA fall into that. So in those cases, backing in against a wall, parked car or something else can hide your plate. If one is a gentleman and walks the baby to her car and sees her off, then there is little chance of her seeing you ride or plate.

But it sounded like OP had an alternative valid plate he could use on his car. I am guessing it is a dealer plate registered to a work place?

But, hey. It all depends on what level of protection or operational awareness one wants to employ? Everyone has their own risk tolerances and methods for managing risk!

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3062670] But, hey. It all depends on what level of protection or operational awareness one wants to employ? Everyone has their own risk tolerances and methods for managing risk![/QUOTE]Yep. Hell I wouldn't mind to have a license plate flipper just for red light cameras, tolls, etc. What I don't know is how I would explain it to my GF or a cop if the thing shorted out and started flapping back and forth making a loud clapping sound. LOL.

I've been reading this thread for months and googled it, but I can't actually find the definition for 'FC' anywhere. I'm guessing 'financial consideration', but context would generally imply it means 'fucking', the two of which aren't strictly speaking the same (I've slept with quite a few girls on SA without paying).

[QUOTE=Tc9869;3062680]I've been reading this thread for months and googled it, but I can't actually find the definition for 'FC' anywhere. I'm guessing 'financial consideration', but context would generally imply it means 'fucking', the two of which aren't strictly speaking the same (I've slept with quite a few girls on SA without paying).[/QUOTE]Fuck Chamber. See first (bottom most) post in following thread for term definitions.

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?15100-Sugarbaby-Thread-Highlights-Index-and-FAQ[/URL]

Yes, "free" pussy (or I should say without direct payment) comes with the bowl sometimes. Its more like dating than mongering when done well. But nothing is really free, there is a financial or emotion expectation one way or another.