"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Of all of JeezLizard's wisdom. One point about the license plate. I mentioned in other posts I have an alternative plate I use for that last 1/4 mile before the M&G or FC. It is a pain to stop at a discreet spot (hello officer. Just swapping out my license plate) I scout out in advance to put it on or take it off, but I still do it every time. OpSec. The other issue for me, who lives in a community property state. Not that the sugar is a substantial part of my net worth, but I have only been taking it from a place that is clearly separate property, if this ever came up. Recall the former owner of the LA Clippers who had a baby he gave a couple of Ferraris to, and when his wife divorced him she sued, I think both him and her, for the sugar he gave the baby because it came from community property.

I looked for info about GPS scanners, and they are pricey. Like $800. Some recommend a physical search is superior anyway. It seems like a longshot to ever happen, but if it did we're dead to rights. Stay safe out there, brothers.

A lesson here. Never let the opportunity go by to get a rental car. It is de rigeur here in Cali to be given a dealer loaner for any service. Even just oil changes. Always plan a M&G or FC visit with each car repair. Hmm, dealers could start offering this 'enhanced' service.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;3058943]Ok several posts here on GPS on the car, and its a good topic but a more complicated one. Yes even more complicated than studying the mind of an SB. LOL.

Long story short, the legality of putting a GPS tracker on a car varies from state to state and is subject to specific interpretation of the penal codes of that state. In some states, someone with a P. I. License basically has a free pass to do it. Some states don't require licensure of P. I. s though.

In some states that are community property states, the GPS is usually easily defended (in states where even PIs are forbidden from putting them on cars) by the fact that the wife is technically a co-owner of the hubbies vehicle, thus can authorize use of tracking device, even if her name is not specifically on the vehicle title. This is the one that has fucked many a cheater. Only solution is to rent a car or put a car in your brothers name etc. That aside, a good P. I. , particularly when working in cahoots with a good slime ball divorce attorney, can not only do this but they have a huge set of techniques at their disposal of side stepping the law even when it does not allow them to do it officially.

(Side note: Would their be an advantage to a leased vehicle in the above situation? I don't know that answer, maybe someone else can chime in on how vehicle leases are treated in community property situations).

It sucks but its how it is. To summarize, the most "safe" strategy is to just remember that a PI can do it to you, but you can't do it to your SB (you probably can't do it to your wife and your PI probably can't do it to your SB except in certain states). Getting caught doing it can be pretty severe because of recently changes to cyberstalking laws and such.

Info about you via license plate is easily obtainable by any PI in any state to the best of my knowledge. An SB can pay a PI to get info about you for a very small fee (might even be able to do it online in a few minutes).

One big source of info that's easy for a PI to get to is credit reports. This one is common sense I guess but its good to keep in mind as part of your breadcrumb elimination strategy. It will reveal points of entry for them to find out anything you've applied for, credit cards and phones in your name of course (although I think difficulty of subpoenaing actual statements a bit harder it can be done), and of course things like that apartment you set her up in across town (hopefully nobody here is doing that but I've met SBs where their SD did exactly that), or buying a boat the wife doesn't need to know about, etc.[/QUOTE]

So I just finished my second consecutive month subscribing, decided to pull the plug for a while. I spend way too much time doing this, duty calls and I want to go dark from the site to get a fresh entry down the road. As I mentioned in a previous post I'm 59, claiming 52, and post as married on the site. I'm not George Cluney but I'm not a gargoyle either and I stay in excellent shape. I post that to give a perspective to my world. (If I was 40, single and had the cake, I would have a fucking harem!) My first entry in the bowl was last year (1 month subscription) 6 M&G's, one rejection by her, one by me,(the thing that showed up ate the girl in the picture) and with the other 4, it was game on. Two sweeties under 21. Nothing lasted, but that was my choice. This time thru I was a bit more selective and had some unbelievable fun. I have a regular 26 yo single mom, with her own home that is an 8 to a 9. I'll continue too see her. $$$ a pop, but worth it, no fc expense. I had a super hot car encounter with an 18 year old Newbie AA chick, (perfect and I mean perfect 10) that unfortunately didn't go beyond our first meet. Probably the hottest encounter I've ever had in the bowl. Exploded down her throat after the hottest play session you can imagine. I had her saying fuck me daddy over and over while I stroked her pussy into a blinding orgasm. Unforgettable. She's traveling, but has gone silent. Also had the attack of the fat chicks. Started texting with a 24 yo that looked a little slutty and we dirty texted like you read about. She seemed down for almost anything. When she walked into the bar I was initially disappointed, bbw is not what rings the bell for me. But I happened to be there, it was late, SO was traveling, so we sat in a Chinese restaurant bar. She wolfed down three martini's faster than you can say fukced up, and then tells me she is pet sitting 4 minutes away. Alright she is a fat chick, but with a pretty face, sweet personality, free fc 4 minutes away. 15 minutes later, after her tongue was all over my asshole, she's on the floor, scrunched up with her face on the carpet, ass in the air, my thumb in her ass, 2 fingers in her puss, and I had her begging for it. Finished off with a huge facial. If she was 60 lbs lighter I'd be all over it going forward. Second fat chick, 19 yo newbie. Beautiful face, but just fat. So we spent some time in a sports bar, (bought her a salad) and out to the car to find a quite place. Fat chick or not, having a 19 yo bobbing for jizz after fingering from her puss to her mouth, back and forth, back and forth, while I prompted her dirty talking was fucking hot. I've got a couple of other real prospects I'm burner texting and emailing with, but the flake factor is high so we'll see. So that's the update brothers. Keep your guard up and your dick hard.

Anyone have any Intel on Wynter up in the DC area?

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3058984]"not worthy of all of JeezLizard's wisdom."[/QUOTE]I always say never take advice on relationships or life itself from anyone you meet on a mongers forum. LOL. But hey, if any of this stuff can help anyone, I'll contribute what I can.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3058984]
I looked for info about GPS scanners, and they are pricey. Like $800. Some recommend a physical search is superior anyway. It seems like a longshot to ever happen, but if it did we're dead to rights. Stay safe out there, brothers.[/QUOTE]Best solution that will probably work just as well is an inspection mirror, something like these: [URL]http://www.mirrors-r-us.com/inspection.htm[/URL].

Not perfect but probably good enough. Also reveals any pipe bombs the SB's disgruntled ex fiancé might have put there. LOL. J / k.

But seriously another thing you can consider doing is set up a security cam with motion alerts that points at your vehicle, may be very easy to get away with a hidden one or it may need some excuses or alternative motive theories supporting it in order for it to not draw suspicion in itself. Maybe pointed out a window at the vehicle if its in a driveway outside, maybe under some boxes pointed toward the underside of a vehicle if in a garage, etc. If you can pull it off, it's largely infallible except when power is out or the cam can't get to internet / WiFi, or human error results in forgetting to check the footage or getting complacent over time. Bad thing is anything high tech costs more money (as opposed to simpler solutions like an inspection mirror), and of course nothing is purely infallible. In fact here's what sucks about any of this: if SO sees you have the cam or mirror, or sees you using either one of these, she's either going to think you're cheating or lost your mind and neither of those are good. The #1 event that triggers getting caught is some change in behavior on the cheaters part.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3059015]A lesson here. Never let the opportunity go by to get a rental car. It is de rigeur here in Cali to be given a dealer loaner for any service. Even just oil changes. Always plan a M&G or FC visit with each car repair. Hmm, dealers could start offering this 'enhanced' service.[/QUOTE]I think the big box hardware stores will rent you pickup truck for a few hours for reasonable rates. I'm guessing cheaper and less hassle than getting a rental. Or maybe just park in one place and Uber the rest of the way.

There are some car-sharing services popping up (airBnB for vehicles), but I haven't really looked into them.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;3060296]I always say never take advice on relationships or life itself from anyone you meet on a mongers forum. LOL. But hey, if any of this stuff can help anyone, I'll contribute what I can.

Best solution that will probably work just as well is an inspection mirror, something like these: [URL]http://www.mirrors-r-us.com/inspection.htm[/URL].

Not perfect but probably good enough. Also reveals any pipe bombs the SB's disgruntled ex fianc might have put there. LOL. J / k.

But seriously another thing you can consider doing is set up a security cam with motion alerts that points at your vehicle, may be very easy to get away with a hidden one or it may need some excuses or alternative motive theories supporting it in order for it to not draw suspicion in itself. Maybe pointed out a window at the vehicle if its in a driveway outside, maybe under some boxes pointed toward the underside of a vehicle if in a garage, etc. If you can pull it off, it's largely infallible except when power is out or the cam can't get to internet / WiFi, or human error results in forgetting to check the footage or getting complacent over time. Bad thing is anything high tech costs more money (as opposed to simpler solutions like an inspection mirror), and of course nothing is purely infallible. In fact here's what sucks about any of this: if SO sees you have the cam or mirror, or sees you using either one of these, she's either going to think you're cheating or lost your mind and neither of those are good. The #1 event that triggers getting caught is some change in behavior on the cheaters part.[/QUOTE]I consider myself slightly paranoid, and I wouldn't go this far. If you're to the point where the SO is going to place a GPS on your vehicle, you're already done. You just don't know it yet.

Success in life is about knowing what risks to take for the benefits you want to gain. We've all made the choice to be in the bowl understanding (hopefully) the inherent risks. If you can't accept the downside, you shouldn't be here, I. E. "don't do the crime if you can't do the time".

I dropped out of the bowl earlier in the summer after a slow month dealing with the platonic and GPS girls. I slipped over to BP but cheap hotels and chemical girls were not for me.

A rainy day here so I decided to get back on SA and see if my luck was better. Indeed it was as have two dates lined up this coming week with 22 and 20 year olds. As a backup, a 26 BBW wants to meet as well.

I took some advice from guys in here and got it outfront that no money until FC. Assuming my dinners goes well, I should have some good desserts!

There seems to be a good selection of new young ones looking for older guys in the Richmond area. I messaged six with four replying. Not bad for me and my game. One told me she gets a lot of messages but not many making an actual date.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3060337]I consider myself slightly paranoid, and I wouldn't go this far. If you're to the point where the SO is going to place a GPS on your vehicle, you're already done. You just don't know it yet.

Success in life is about knowing what risks to take for the benefits you want to gain. We've all made the choice to be in the bowl understanding (hopefully) the inherent risks. If you can't accept the downside, you shouldn't be here, I. E. "don't do the crime if you can't do the time".[/QUOTE]I couldn't agree more with what you've said here, and for the record I personally would not do all this stuff either. But, my assets are not at risk in my sugaring activities, so to each his own. I think each of us really has to assess (from a legal perspective and a soul-searching perspective) what exactly our downside really is, what our risks and risk tolerances are, and base our actions on that.

As I said in a previous message, I think the only way to do the crime without doing the time is to be a sporadic SD, never staying with one girl too long and taking breaks between activities. Whenever we feed the addiction continuously, it's only a matter of time before the SO gets wise (or gets suspicious enough to take "next steps" to become wise). And even then, unless we've already walked through the worse case scenario in our mind, and accepted it as a possible outcome, we're still inadequately prepared.

Most of all this about GPS trackers etc. Is just understanding what's available or possible. If I were married I wouldn't do this at all, unless I was filthy rich and the financial implication of a divorce really didn't matter to me.

Forgive the newbie question, but after reading this forum / thread, I decided to sign up with SA to aid my search for a low volume UTR ('m not in Richmond.) I've noticed that if I message a girl, I can see that it's read. But I'm not getting many responses maybe 30-40% or so. My usual initial message reads something like "Hi Susie, I'm Pete. Would you be interested in exchanging a few messages to see if we're a good fit?" I don't want to scare off the non-professional / first timers with some type of aggressive message. I've had some great responses as well, and have learned that Harrisonburg isn't as dry of an area as the forum here would suggest LOL. But, I'm afraid that I'm not doing some obvious step that would encourage many of the "readers" to become "responders. " Is there some unwritten courtesy that I need to know about?

Your posts *have* had me wondering if you worked for the CIA. How far from Richmond to Langley? I also appreciate guidance from you and others (some PMing) about the dangers. I am absolutely positive I did the right thing by starting in the bowl. People I know who aren't much older have dropped dead recently. I wouldn't have wanted to miss what I've been enjoying. I will take my memories to the grave. About assessing the downside. I think I am getting a little off-kilter with that. There is no doubt I am less connected to the SO now, but we have still been spending time together and she's happy and no more suspicious than usual. I do want to stay married, for a variety of reasons, but know the very serious potential consequences of discovery, and that I contemplate them dispassionately, rather than with panic (and not just about the finances) is weird. Perhaps an indicator of how sugaring distorts thinking. I recall your advice to put the bowl down periodically. While I have *this* baby I really am into, this is hard. The setup with her is more dangerous than some I could make, but it is a function of her specific city, etc. If we split up perhaps that would be the time to take my break and settle things down with the SO, then start over knowing what I already know and seek babies in a situation where the risks are much less. I wonder how I would arrange my life if I won the lottery, regarding sugaring.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;3060497]I couldn't agree more with what you've said here, and for the record I personally would not do all this stuff either. But, my assets are not at risk in my sugaring activities, so to each his own. I think each of us really has to assess (from a legal perspective and a soul-searching perspective) what exactly our downside really is, what our risks and risk tolerances are, and base our actions on that.

As I said in a previous message, I think the only way to do the crime without doing the time is to be a sporadic SD, never staying with one girl too long and taking breaks between activities. Whenever we feed the addiction continuously, it's only a matter of time before the SO gets wise (or gets suspicious enough to take "next steps" to become wise). And even then, unless we've already walked through the worse case scenario in our mind, and accepted it as a possible outcome, we're still inadequately prepared.

Most of all this about GPS trackers etc. Is just understanding what's available or possible. If I were married I wouldn't do this at all, unless I was filthy rich and the financial implication of a divorce really didn't matter to me.[/QUOTE]

As in baseball a 30-40% batting average is actually quite good. At least this is the case for me. If I get 3 out of 10 replies I think I'm doing great. The true UTRs, who know they're UTRs, won't care about your looks or age, but true pros are not really the majority on SA. A 40's, fit, handsome guy will still get a lot more replies than a 60's, fat, ugly guy. My intro message is a bit more in depth than yours. In the first paragraph I compliment her intelligence and looks, and if her profile is detailed, I try and pick out something I like or we have in common and mention it. I then have two pretty much standard paragraphs that gives a broad overview of me, what I'm looking for and my contact info.

Good Hunting.

Travelin.

[QUOTE=TakesALickin;3060640]Forgive the newbie question, but after reading this forum / thread, I decided to sign up with SA to aid my search for a low volume UTR ('m not in Richmond.) I've noticed that if I message a girl, I can see that it's read. But I'm not getting many responses maybe 30-40% or so. My usual initial message reads something like "Hi Susie, I'm Pete. Would you be interested in exchanging a few messages to see if we're a good fit?" I don't want to scare off the non-professional / first timers with some type of aggressive message. I've had some great responses as well, and have learned that Harrisonburg isn't as dry of an area as the forum here would suggest LOL. But, I'm afraid that I'm not doing some obvious step that would encourage many of the "readers" to become "responders. " Is there some unwritten courtesy that I need to know about?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;3056830]I can only tell you how I handle this. I use non-sugar related excuses to keep second string girls in the possible lineup. Always have some reason why you can't start with them right now (job related travel, family issues, whatever), but tell them you'd like to meet them in the future.

Nine times out of ten they will see right through this and know that it means you're busy dating others -- why? Because they do the exact same thing when making busy excuses. Most girls (especially SBs) are well-versed in the art of dishonesty and thus they do not expect honesty from their SD.

What they do expect is that you don't say something to piss them off, and bottom line is that women are unpredictable so you can't be sure what will piss them off.

As someone pointed out, women are competitive, so conventional wisdom is that competition against another woman will lead to better behavior, and it does when the competitive vibe is properly executed, but it may not always be easy to execute properly. Invoking a woman's jealousy instinct is best performed after she already is a little emotionally invested with you, and best done in very subtle ways (I. E. Letting her see your eyes wander, sneaking off to answer a mystery text, etc). If you do those things too soon (before she's developed some degree of financial or emotional dependency on you), she does not yet have reason enough to care.

And, women respect tact, so if you come out honestly and direct (like men usually prefer to do) and say "there's another girl I'm interested in", there is a possibility she will interpret that as immaturity on your part or that you're not clever enough to hide it or capable enough to juggle multiples. It doesn't matter that her reasoning is wrong, it won't stop her from using that to justify it in her mind.

One way of looking at it, what would you do if a girl you're interested in says "well there's another SD I prefer to start up with now, but will you be available later if it doesn't work out"? Most of us would just move on to the next one.

At least if you leave it with an excuse that she can't possibly reflect back on herself as something to be taken personally, you can always reconnect with her in the future (assuming she is still available when you want to). I've done this countless times, even reconnecting with girls I intentionally went dark on 2 or 3 years prior. For example "Hey, I was just going through some old e-mails and I realized somehow we lost touch". I think you'd be surprised how many of them are immediately ready to rekindle things. Maybe not so much if they felt you chose another girl over them at one point.[/QUOTE]I have been in the bowl for over two years, and one thing I have found is that it is often feast or famine. I've had weeks when it looked like I might end up meeting as many as four girls the next week, and it turns out that I end up meeting none. Other times, I've thought that I was entering a drought, and all of a sudden there's more than I can handle. That makes it hard to calibrate the number of POTs to be interacting with at once, and it means that sometimes I've had to put things on hold when it looked like I was heading toward meeting someone. What I've often done is to tell them that there was someone that I was talking with before I was talking to her and that I didn't think that it was going to go anywhere but it unexpectedly is, but that if it doesn't go anywhere I'm really still interested in meeting them. So, it's not so much that I'm telling them that they're my second choice in a head-to-head contest, but rather that someone else got there first. (My job is not such that long job-related absences would be plausible, which they wouldn't know at this time, but they might know later if I end up meeting them). I've usually had fairly positive reactions that and have been able to go back a couple of times to someone I had earlier been talking to. Mostly, I think they appreciate that I didn't just go dark on them when I told them I couldn't meet them right away, which I guess is a common experience.

I can't say that this is the optimal approach, but it has worked reasonably well for me.

I must say that I love the bowl. I am in my mid-60's and am enjoying the best sex of my life with girls who are one-half to one-third my age. I've met a number of extremely attractive, bright, fun girls this way. It is so much better than seeing escorts (although I have seen several escorts who were top-notch people).

[QUOTE=EnzoAmore;3059225]Anyone have any Intel on Wynter up in the DC area?[/QUOTE]Yes, I do. Feel free to PM.

I viewed a profile today that had high expectations and a clear no sexual relations statement. I usually just move on, but chose to message her to see how her search was going.

I was very polite and just expressed surprise that I had never seen both in the same profile and wanted to know how her search was going. To my surprise, she replied with an interest in my profile and explained that she had not had any luck since everyone was interested in sex.

I clearly explained that although I didn't want an arrangement based only on sex, I'm sure no arrangement would hold my attention if sex wasn't part of the agreement.

We messaged back and forth for a while and she is now interested in meeting with an understanding of my expectations.

We will see how it proceeds, but it was clear she had no concept of how much "high" really is and thought there would be no men she was actually attracted to.

More to come....