"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Snake27;3002551]Oh, I would not want a traditional BF GF relationship even if it were possible. I am married. In fact, I think that paid arrangements are more morally acceptable than love affairs provided it has no serious impact on your financial picture. (I could have an affair with someone close to my age.) But I don't think there's any harm in friendship with an SB if it happens. You and John are right, though. No money, no hunny. In most cases.[/QUOTE]My thoughts are similar with regard to moral acceptability of arrangements, but for slightly different reasons (not being married, my finances are not directly at risk if I'm caught). Gifting the girl some money helps in a number of ways, first and foremost it eases any guilt (most of it anyway); it feels less like cheating if its pay for play. It's not that I don't still think it's wrong, but it does feel somehow less wrong the more steps I take to eliminate chances of emotional attachment.

There have been times that I had to insist the girl accept my cash gift; and in each time yes, I insisted (at least in recent years). I learned from my younger days that if I accept her offer to refuse the gift, I have basically officially signed on the dotted line for something real, and this means I owe her something in return that's usually way harder for me to come by than cash. In other words there will be emotional expectations that come along with that offer that looked good at first glance.

Pussy is never, ever, truly free. Free of cash payment, maybe, but not free.

Just curious. How much sugar were you giving her before per visit / month and to what amount did you negotiate and bring it down to?

[QUOTE=Snake27;3001992]I feel like a tortoise among hares here, with my one SB story. A quick update on Mary. You can "Find All Posts" to see the earlier history.

Two of the main risks with SB that are not well mitigated by anonymity are overspending and emotional entanglement. I was over-budget for months, figuring she would quit me for the fourth time and that would end it. In the meantime, I'd make each date memorable. But Mary started to like me more, evidenced by frequent praise and increased eagerness to meet. Recently, I decided I could not afford her anymore, so we renegotiated our deal to put me back on budget. This was a breakthrough for me, though it does make our relationship less stable since I'm not going to get it for free.

I think we have the emotional risks contained, too. We've discussed that Mary will eventually leave for a younger, single man. While knowing me, she does go on dates (none have worked out, supposedly) and describes being swarmed by men when she's in a nightclub. So, this is a matter of time, and I would not be surprised if she has other lovers even though she says she does not. We agree to remain friends, though, in the end. However, I have my doubts about how that will work since we're unknown to each other's family, though no longer anonymous to each other. For now, I just plan each next date and don't think much about the future beyond the next date.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Lebruno;3002920]Just curious. How much sugar were you giving her before per visit / month and to what amount did you negotiate and bring it down to?[/QUOTE]I was paying directly to her effectively $300 per visit ($200 cash + gifts) x 4 times per month, and now $150 x 4 and no gifts, so half. There are other costs of the dates, too, like hotel, dinner, entertainment, but it all fits into my carefully calculated budget now. BTW, she was also spooked by what she found on the SD sites and has quit looking there, it seems.

I found a girl who I just picked up one night, talked to her, and we got a motel room. We have been hooking up somewhat regularly since then. She's 25,5'2", 105 lbs, AA. She just has a banging body. At first I thought she was like an UTR girl, but then she told me today that she lives w / her boyfriend. The sex is porn star level. Deep throat blow jobs, rimming, and tonight we did anal for the first time. The only drawback is that she snorts heroin. I think that's what makes her an animal in bed. It awkward when we're out and she's talking to her boyfriend. LOL She calls me her first & favorite white boy. Usually first time anal is sort of painful for the woman and no fun for the man, but this woman did like 4 different positions including laying on her back and also bouncing up and down on me so hard our pelvic bones hit. I guess I'm bragging, but also saying a random woman you meet could be the best sugar baby.

[QUOTE=UBetcha89;3001720]As the title states. Need options in Richmond for early check in. Thanks![/QUOTE]Your best bet is to check the availability of the hotel the night before you arrive. If they have lots of rooms available, then you'll be fine.

Call the hotel the night before and ask their occupancy rate. Explain that you're arriving on a red eye and want to shower before your meeting. Most places will accommodate date you if they have the rooms.

Purchase Vanilla Visa Gift card. Don't be cheap put $500 so you don't have to keep doing this.

Register the card online. Use a real address but not your own and a fake name. I am certain there is someone at he address I use that is like"who the F is "fake name" and what do I keep getting shit for him. Its kinda funny really.

You should not be able to buy online.

For SA. Click paypal and you can pay / checkout as a guest with this method.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;3002164]Good idea. If someone with a lot of knowledge in this area would like to create a well written post (or posts) that summarize everything in one place, I'd be happy to add them to the index and FAQ thread. Or, if it's already been covered (I. E. By multiple people), PM me links to the posts and I will create a dedicated post that points to the multiples.

I would contribute more directly to the effort but I don't have a lot of experience with this topic. I would love to find a good no-tell option for hotels (or solution for early checkin options for afternoon delight situations etc), but in terms of CC anonymity and such I keep my life simple by never allowing my GF into my shit, so I haven't encountered some of these issues.[/QUOTE]

Duuuuude. Herion! And a BF. Those are both MAJOR drawbacks. She will be going down hill FAST. And coming at you for cash for her and her BF habit. Hope she does not know where you live. They will break into yur house at some point.

[QUOTE=OriolesMagic;3003177]I found a girl who I just picked up one night, talked to her, and we got a motel room. We have been hooking up somewhat regularly since then. She's 25,5'2", 105 lbs, AA. She just has a banging body. At first I thought she was like an UTR girl, but then she told me today that she lives w / her boyfriend. The sex is porn star level. Deep throat blow jobs, rimming, and tonight we did anal for the first time. The only drawback is that she snorts heroin. I think that's what makes her an animal in bed. It awkward when we're out and she's talking to her boyfriend. LOL She calls me her first & favorite white boy. Usually first time anal is sort of painful for the woman and no fun for the man, but this woman did like 4 different positions including laying on her back and also bouncing up and down on me so hard our pelvic bones hit. I guess I'm bragging, but also saying a random woman you meet could be the best sugar baby.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=LikeMike1963;3004500]Purchase Vanilla Visa Gift card. Don't be cheap put $500 so you don't have to keep doing this.
Register the card online. Use a real address but not your own and a fake name. I am certain there is someone at he address I use that is like"who the F is "fake name" and what do I keep getting shit for him. Its kinda funny really. You should not be able to buy online. For SA. Click paypal and you can pay / checkout as a guest with this method.[/QUOTE]Thanks, got this one noted. My goal here is to get at least a few more posts (either with same technique or different) on the credit card topic, and a few posts on the subject of hotel solutions, from multiple SDs, so that I can add them all to a single post in the highlights / index / faq thread just to stay fairly consistent with the format Zcochran started there.

Yep, unfortunately you're in for a ride. She and bf are on it, likely more than snorting and smoking it. They are expert at manipulating to get their next fix. Not her fault, just the way it is. Not saying you shouldn't ride it for what it's worth, but absolutely play safe and watch your back. I'm speaking from experience, more than several babies in the same situation. Good luck.

[QUOTE=LikeMike1963;3004507]Duuuuude. Herion! And a BF. Those are both MAJOR drawbacks. She will be going down hill FAST. And coming at you for cash for her and her BF habit. Hope she does not know where you live. They will break into yur house at some point.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;3002570]My thoughts are similar with regard to moral acceptability of arrangements, but for slightly different reasons (not being married, my finances are not directly at risk if I'm caught). Gifting the girl some money helps in a number of ways, first and foremost it eases any guilt (most of it anyway); it feels less like cheating if its pay for play. It's not that I don't still think it's wrong, but it does feel somehow less wrong the more steps I take to eliminate chances of emotional attachment.

There have been times that I had to insist the girl accept my cash gift; and in each time yes, I insisted (at least in recent years). I learned from my younger days that if I accept her offer to refuse the gift, I have basically officially signed on the dotted line for something real, and this means I owe her something in return that's usually way harder for me to come by than cash. In other words there will be emotional expectations that come along with that offer that looked good at first glance.

Pussy is never, ever, truly free. Free of cash payment, maybe, but not free.[/QUOTE]Truly respect JL's opinion. Derived from vast knowledge and experience. I have a SO who can't perform many of the desired functions, and for the same reasons would absolutely ruin me in a divorce. So I have been stuck for 10 years. I am going to be dead a long, long time, however, and I am not prepared to give up on a important part of living. The only way what I do with SBs can harm my SO is if she were to become aware. So I am fanatical about keeping anything and everything about it under the radar. Pretty much, she can look at my computer, phone, office drawers, anything, and *never* come across anything that would concern her. No infections. Interestingly, I have been in a much better mood since I entered the bowl (6 weeks). Initially she was depressed, which could have had something to do with her spidey sense about that, which I truly believe women have. However, she has now turned around and suddenly is way more attached. Ironic if sugaring strengthened the relationship.

So I got contacted by what is clearly a Pro. On SA. Has anyone had the pleasure of chatting / emailing with Summerskyz in RVA? I did the regular checks and so far can't find anything on her. She may be UTR. Let me know. Thanks.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3004785]Truly respect JL's opinion. Derived from vast knowledge and experience. I have a SO who can't perform many of the desired functions, and for the same reasons would absolutely ruin me in a divorce. So I have been stuck for 10 years. I am going to be dead a long, long time, however, and I am not prepared to give up on a important part of living. The only way what I do with SBs can harm my SO is if she were to become aware. So I am fanatical about keeping anything and everything about it under the radar. Pretty much, she can look at my computer, phone, office drawers, anything, and *never* come across anything that would concern her. No infections. Interestingly, I have been in a much better mood since I entered the bowl (6 weeks). Initially she was depressed, which could have had something to do with her spidey sense about that, which I truly believe women have. However, she has now turned around and suddenly is way more attached. Ironic if sugaring strengthened the relationship.[/QUOTE]The topic of divorce (strategies to avoid, reasons to pursue, etcetera) could probably be a thread on its own; I know I could write some things about it and I'm sure learn a lot about it from others. Its been a long time since I was married, and when I did divorce, infidelity was not the direct reason, but there were times she knew something was up -- she had to. Spidey sense, as you said. But, I was never caught, I was too careful. At some point I just stopped, but it all still took its toll on the marriage and I have to believe that the truth her suspicions alerted her to played some role in the overall failure of the marriage, even though she never brought it up directly.

The only reason I bring this up is what you said in your last sentence. Sometimes cheating does strengthen things, short term, only to come around full circle as karma that hits you hard when the timing is at its worst. We hear stories about the wife always waiting until her man is already down from something else before she starts kicking him in the head (his career takes a dive, or some health tragedy strikes, etcetera, and suddenly she decides that's a good time to bail on the marriage). So every situation is different but I would be aware of that risk. Yes, if they suspect you're creeping around, their initial instinct will be to do whatever it takes to win you back, but the newfound attention will last only as long as she is uncomfortable in the relationship.

Whether or not that matters really varies in each marriage. I've met guys that were just dying to get out. My situation wasn't like that. My current situation with my GF isn't like that. I'm happy with her, I just need variety. Unfortunately what it means to me is that if I want to keep my relationship with her, I have to curb my appetite for variety and only indulge a very small percentage of the time that I'd actually like to. It's just a trade off I have to make. Lots of missed opportunities for great pussy, and I think about them every night before I fall asleep and the fact that those opportunities will begin to dissipate as I get older. But, it's ok, I've chosen my priorities, and for now that's my LTR. I will dabble in the bowl only when I'm sure I can do so far from home and in a way that doesn't reverberate into the rest of my life.

So I seem to have hit a nest of hornets or *****-nets LOL, see what I did there. So my rule is I won't see any woman who isn't well reviewed. I now see that a lot of women on SA who I suspect are pros must be really UTR because I can't find any info on them. So my brothers if any of you have had the pleasure of meeting any of the SA user names below please let me know.

Sianna.

Summerskyz. She is super eager to met and near me but can't find anything and looks sweet.

AmorAngel.

Thanks everyone.

I think she is a pro she messaged me on SA as well but I do think she has been on BP before.

[QUOTE=Ltnric;3004814]So I got contacted by what is clearly a Pro. On SA. Has anyone had the pleasure of chatting / emailing with Summerskyz in RVA? I did the regular checks and so far can't find anything on her. She may be UTR. Let me know. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

They contact everyone on SA those are the 3 pros that I know of.

[QUOTE=Ltnric;3005244]So I seem to have hit a nest of hornets or *****-nets LOL, see what I did there. So my rule is I won't see any woman who isn't well reviewed. I now see that a lot of women on SA who I suspect are pros must be really UTR because I can't find any info on them. So my brothers if any of you have had the pleasure of meeting any of the SA user names below please let me know.

Sianna.

Summerskyz. She is super eager to met and near me but can't find anything and looks sweet.

AmorAngel.

Thanks everyone.[/QUOTE]