"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=PartyTimeGuy;2983480]We have all run into the girls who think their pussies are made of gold and worth a LOT, even when they won't give it to you and want to be paid for companionship, LOL. They just don't get that this is a competitive marketplace and prices are determined by supply and demand, and, in the case of most SB transactions, by negotiation. There is an unending supply of SB pussy out there. I find that you can get exactly what you want at exactly the price you are willing to pay if you are patient and stay in control of the negotiation. The person with all the power in a negotiation is the one who can walk away from it. I want that person to be me.[/QUOTE]The inversion of the supply and demand curve is exactly the part that some of these ladies don't seem to understand. Hot girls are used to the curve working in their favor -- they can't walk out the door without horny dudes everywhere gawking at them and making passes at them. We as males are at a disadvantage in this game throughout most of our lives. Everything from high school, to the adult bar scene, to online dating, the supply of hot girls is never enough to meet the demand of horny guys. That all changes on the SB scene, especially on sugar dating sites that require a substantial monthly fee for males (as it turns out once you weed out the inordinately frugal males from the equation, there aren't nearly as many left. LOL).

Some of these girls, however, seem to think the SD sites are like the rest of their lives where at any given moment there are countless guys trying to get a chance to talk to her. They don't realize the male: female ratio is drastically different than other forms of dating. Believe it or not, some of them are so oblivious they don't even realize that SDs have to pay for membership, I've talked to several who thought these sites were free to anyone who wanted to join.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2982819]Sure, if they WANT to pay for just the companionship, I wouldn't judge their right to do so. It's a diverse hobby and everyone gets something different out of it. My suggestion of not paying until after sex is for the guys that want the sex, but keep finding themselves in the platonic bucket, that report back here with their dissatisfaction about things. If there's no problem, then no solution is needed.

I personally don't offer the girl anything, and I do pay, but not until afterward. And, its only an amount that I personally decided she's worth, not the amount she thinks she's worth. I never put her in charge of determining that amount. Sometimes it results in needing to let a few get away but there's always more where that came from.[/QUOTE]Definitely more sb's than sd and no reason to get upset when one is rejected because we can't negotiate with them. I doubt if any guy here would work a job without knowing what the pay is, I certainly wouldn't so I don't expect a girl to. I've found that if everything is agreed on before hand they aren't worried about what some stranger is going to leave them at the end of the night. Most are here for the financial help, not the privilege of fucking a guy that's 20 years older or more.

Has anyone else had problems renewing using these? I know mine has $70 on it but it is getting rejected. There is a statement on the help page that AMEX cards must have $. 99 more than the charge to be approved. Is this true of OneVanilla also?

A little off topic but if anyone can answer this you guys can! How the hell do I search on a profile name. Seems to be every search BUT THAT ONE in SA.

Thanks Brothers.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2983628]Definitely more sb's than sd and no reason to get upset when one is rejected because we can't negotiate with them. I doubt if any guy here would work a job without knowing what the pay is, I certainly wouldn't so I don't expect a girl to. I've found that if everything is agreed on before hand they aren't worried about what some stranger is going to leave them at the end of the night. Most are here for the financial help, not the privilege of fucking a guy that's 20 years older or more.[/QUOTE]There are very few females (at least under the age of 30 or so) who wouldn't appreciate some form of financial help, and a gap between their desired expenditures and their earning potential is no doubt a primary draw to the SB scene. But, there are most definitely lots of girls in the SB age range that prefer older men, with or without sugar. Almost all of the SBs I've known fall into one of two categories, either (a) they had a very close relationship with and / or were spoiled by their biological father or (b) their father was mostly absent from their life. I never find that girls fall in the middle or outside of those two categories. I cannot name one that had just a "normal" upbringing with a "regular" run-of-the-mill dad. In cases of both categories, they are looking to fill in some void in their life that they can't quite explain. The notion that most of them have daddy issues is absolutely true in my experience -- maybe my view is biased because that's the only type of girl I attract?

But never underestimate how many women are attracted to someone twice their age or more. I discovered this even before I was of SD age myself-- lots of girls I knew when I was younger confessed their attraction to much older men.

I wouldn't go into a job wondering what the pay is either, but I don't want an employer / employee situation out of the bowl or with any of these girls, so I intentionally reject girls that are looking at it as a job. I prefer to keep the ones with a genuine sexual attraction to me, and one of my litmus tests for that is that they follow me to the fuck chamber without asking how much. It shows me they are interested in fucking and / or dating with or without the sugar, or at least that money is not the only thing on their mind. I have no delusions about the fact that this method of dating won't work as well for me when I'm in my 70's, at least not with the 18-24 year olds. But I'm certainly going to enjoy it for as long as it lasts.

For those that have another method that works for them, more power to ya. Keep doing' what you're doing.

[QUOTE=Graham111;2983948]A little off topic but if anyone can answer this you guys can! How the hell do I search on a profile name. Seems to be every search BUT THAT ONE in SA.

Thanks Brothers.[/QUOTE]You should be able to search their username with the 'profile text' search function.

I have a SO so I can't use my own credit card. I got my initial SA membership with a OneVanilla debit card. It just expired. I am trying to renew but the site has been rejecting me. Two different cards, one with $70, one with $80. I tried the SA help but have yet to get a response to my messages. I called OneVanilla. They not only said that their anonymous cards can't be used on dating sites, they also said something about the charge being outside the US so that's another reason they aren't accepting the charges. When I pointed out that I charged my membership there last month, I was told that they saw that and are trying to reverse the charge and put $70 back on my first card. Whoa! Then the gal said that it was up to the merchant to try to get the charge reversed and then come at me for payment in another form. I can't tell whether SA has their $ or not.

Anyway, one thought I had was that as I am super cautious I am using Tor as my browser, and I can look into the toolbar and see what country it is connecting me to the internet from. It is mostly Europe. The OneVanilla says on its face 'Valid only in the US'. You can refresh the circuit in Tor, and I did that over and over again until the final country was the US. Still, the charge was rejected. I am thinking of switching cards. SA even says something on its site about American Express gift cards being used. Does anyone have any experience in using those? Are they as discreet as OneVanilla? Perhaps I just have to risk going with a non-discreet browser to make my SA payments. I can't recall what I did before. If anyone read my earlier post about generating cash, I suggested using an online bank. When I log onto that account, I have to use the non-Tor browser, since it won't allow log-ins if you don't appear to be in the US. I even got an error message once to that effect.

I now have several OneVanilla cards that I can give to SBs if I can ever get in touch with one again.

Anytime you see a SB posting and it is from some odd place (Romania), it is most likely that she is using Tor, and she doesn't have Premium to hide her last log in, and a Romanian server was the last stop for her login before the SA server. Early on I had SBs asking me if I was really in California and I didn't know why. I think that my last log-in was listed as the Netherlands. In some ways it makes us look like globe-trotting SDs, but I hid my last location anyway once I got my membership.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;2983816]Has anyone else had problems renewing using these? I know mine has $70 on it but it is getting rejected. There is a statement on the help page that AMEX cards must have $. 99 more than the charge to be approved. Is this true of OneVanilla also?[/QUOTE]I had a problem with my vanilla visa card getting declined. These prepaid credit cards are only valid for US merchants and will be rejected for merchants outside of the US. SA's payment processor is likely showing up as a foreign merchant. I ended up submitting a support request through both SA and the payment processor, Payment Wall if I recall, and they were able to get it processed.

[QUOTE=Rauder98;2984285]I had a problem with my vanilla visa card getting declined. These prepaid credit cards are only valid for US merchants and will be rejected for merchants outside of the US. SA's payment processor is likely showing up as a foreign merchant. I ended up submitting a support request through both SA and the payment processor, Payment Wall if I recall, and they were able to get it processed.[/QUOTE]Thanks for that pointer. My first charge went through Paymentwall. I will try contacting them again as SA is still silent. While waiting for good ideas such as these, I did some searching on my own. Evidently another anonymous debit card provider is the Simon malls. You can search them, they are all over. You can go to customer service and pay cash without showing I'd or giving SSN. We shall see if that fixes my problem.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2983596]The inversion of the supply and demand curve is exactly the part that some of these ladies don't seem to understand. Hot girls are used to the curve working in their favor -- they can't walk out the door without horny dudes everywhere gawking at them and making passes at them. We as males are at a disadvantage in this game throughout most of our lives. Everything from high school, to the adult bar scene, to online dating, the supply of hot girls is never enough to meet the demand of horny guys. That all changes on the SB scene, especially on sugar dating sites that require a substantial monthly fee for males (as it turns out once you weed out the inordinately frugal males from the equation, there aren't nearly as many left. LOL).

Some of these girls, however, seem to think the SD sites are like the rest of their lives where at any given moment there are countless guys trying to get a chance to talk to her. They don't realize the male: female ratio is drastically different than other forms of dating. Believe it or not, some of them are so oblivious they don't even realize that SDs have to pay for membership, I've talked to several who thought these sites were free to anyone who wanted to join.[/QUOTE]Hot girls are very very spoiled. They need a wake-up call, which I am only to happy to provide. If they insist on denying reality it's time to move on. There are plenty of girls who would like financial help and not that many guys who can afford the time and money to satisfy the reasonable ones.

However, even average looking girls can be very unreasonable. I ran into one the other day who was advertising on CL as needing 1600 ASAP. It turned out she was a 35 year old single mom, very average looking, trying to save her house. We exchanged a few emails. She thought that she should get the whole thing for a one night stand and that she was worth it! ROFLMFAO! She probably still believes in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus.

[QUOTE=PartyTimeGuy;2984400]Hot girls are very very spoiled. They need a wake-up call, which I am only to happy to provide. If they insist on denying reality it's time to move on. There are plenty of girls who would like financial help and not that many guys who can afford the time and money to satisfy the reasonable ones. However, even average looking girls can be very unreasonable. I ran into one the other day who was advertising on CL as needing 1600 ASAP. It turned out she was a 35 year old single mom, very average looking, trying to save her house. We exchanged a few emails. She thought that she should get the whole thing for a one night stand and that she was worth it! ROFLMFAO! She probably still believes in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus.[/QUOTE]This is one reason age 30 is pretty much my upper threshold when it comes to SBs, even if they are smoking hot for their age. Not only are their looks on a downhill spiral, but their attitude tends to follow. The only thing on an uphill climb after the mid 30's seems to be their sense of entitlement. It's puzzling, because they know their value in the dating world is on a rapid expiration cycle, but it's sort of like the hormonal changes affect their judgement and place them in a state of denial, where they try to solve the problem by taking the path that's the polar opposite of the direction they should be headed. Instead of being grateful an SD talks to them at all, they seem even more demanding. I've met some very reasonable 30+ in the civy dating world but on SD sites I've gotten to the point I just refuse to respond to them.

The one with the $1,600 mortgage payment overnight solution on CL you mentioned seems like a different kind of case, like maybe she just panicked due to financial crisis and thus isn't thinking clearly at all.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2984457]This is one reason age 30 is pretty much my upper threshold when it comes to SBs, even if they are smoking hot for their age. Not only are their looks on a downhill spiral, but their attitude tends to follow. The only thing on an uphill climb after the mid 30's seems to be their sense of entitlement. It's puzzling, because they know their value in the dating world is on a rapid expiration cycle, but it's sort of like the hormonal changes affect their judgement and place them in a state of denial, where they try to solve the problem by taking the path that's the polar opposite of the direction they should be headed. Instead of being grateful an SD talks to them at all, they seem even more demanding. I've met some very reasonable 30+ in the civy dating world but on SD sites I've gotten to the point I just refuse to respond to them.

The one with the $1,600 mortgage payment overnight solution on CL you mentioned seems like a different kind of case, like maybe she just panicked due to financial crisis and thus isn't thinking clearly at all.[/QUOTE]It's amazing how some girls would date as civvies and give it up for free after dinner and a movie, but for the prospect of getting paid they want a small fortune. Fortunately that's not all of them. I have had great success convincing "first timers" to take the plunge at reasonable rates. But I have run into my fair share of girls who price themselves way out of the market, or, worse yet, want to get paid up front before they demonstrate they are worth it, if in fact they are going to "demonstrate" anything at all. Those are definitely a headache you can easily avoid by saying good-bye and good luck .I always test drive before I buy.

I have not run into the issue that you describe about the 30+ crowd being more demanding. I find them to be far less demanding on average. They also tend to be hornier and more interested in pure sex and have fewer illusions about this being a romantic relationship. I have had many MILF 30+ SBs, most of them average looking, but a few smokin' hot ones as well, and they are generally easier to convince as first timers, very reasonably priced, open-minded to try anything you might suggest and insatiable nymphos. My current MILF Bunny is a perfect example. If I suggested she hump a doorknob for my viewing pleasure she probably would hop up on it before I could finish the sentence. LOL.

[QUOTE=PartyTimeGuy;2984821]I have not run into the issue that you describe about the 30+ crowd being more demanding. I find them to be far less demanding on average. They also tend to be hornier and more interested in pure sex and have fewer illusions about this being a romantic relationship. I have had many MILF 30+ SBs, most of them average looking, but a few smokin' hot ones as well, and they are generally easier to convince as first timers, very reasonably priced, open-minded to try anything you might suggest and insatiable nymphos. [/QUOTE]Your experience with 30+ SBs sounds more like the my experience with the ones I've found on civy dating sites (Match, POF etc), and I think you mentioned you're not into the SD sites, so maybe the phenomenon I'm describing has more to do with where you meet them? I've always said that the moment a girl signs up for an SD site, she is already expressing a certain level of entitlement. Simply by filling out a profile on SA or one of those sites, they are basically saying, at a very minimum "I'm hot enough and so far above average looking that I should be able to land a well-to-do guy". For the most part I don't see this behavior from the same demographic if I meet them on Match. The contrast is really visible in the occasional case where I've seen the same girls I met on Match on an SD site. Just seeing the difference in how they describe what they look for in their profile is an eye opener. Same girl, different meeting circumstance. In terms of MILFs in civy dating, one of my favorite ex-gf and sex partners of all time was 32, she could compete in looks with the hottest and youngest SBs out there, yet had the maturity and personality to make for a good LTR. Consistently the best sex I've ever had, and didn't need any help from me financially, but she was not the type that would look for an SD or even join a dating site for that matter.

This is not to say that all 30+ ladies on the SD sites are as I described. I've started pretty much avoiding contact with the older ones on SD sites, just because of the behavior I've observed (both in first hand interactions with them, and also by reading their profiles), so if there are a lot of exceptions maybe I'm just not meeting them. Every time I look at the profile of a middle aged hottie, it seems interlaced with all of these rules, terms and conditions and indications of a bitter horse rode hard and put away wet. That's a big turn off for me.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2984890]Your experience with 30+ SBs sounds more like the my experience with the ones I've found on civy dating sites (Match, POF etc), and I think you mentioned you're not into the SD sites, so maybe the phenomenon I'm describing has more to do with where you meet them? I've always said that the moment a girl signs up for an SD site, she is already expressing a certain level of entitlement. Simply by filling out a profile on SA or one of those sites, they are basically saying, at a very minimum "I'm hot enough and so far above average looking that I should be able to land a well-to-do guy". For the most part I don't see this behavior from the same demographic if I meet them on Match. The contrast is really visible in the occasional case where I've seen the same girls I met on Match on an SD site. Just seeing the difference in how they describe what they look for in their profile is an eye opener. Same girl, different meeting circumstance. In terms of MILFs in civy dating, one of my favorite ex-gf and sex partners of all time was 32, she could compete in looks with the hottest and youngest SBs out there, yet had the maturity and personality to make for a good LTR. Consistently the best sex I've ever had, and didn't need any help from me financially, but she was not the type that would look for an SD or even join a dating site for that matter.

This is not to say that all 30+ ladies on the SD sites are as I described. I've started pretty much avoiding contact with the older ones on SD sites, just because of the behavior I've observed (both in first hand interactions with them, and also by reading their profiles), so if there are a lot of exceptions maybe I'm just not meeting them. Every time I look at the profile of a middle aged hottie, it seems interlaced with all of these rules, terms and conditions and indications of a bitter horse rode hard and put away wet. That's a big turn off for me.[/QUOTE]Moving from the civy dating sites to an arrangement site is a natural progression for these older girls. Most have had bf's who have sucked them dry emotionally and financially. Most when talking to them will tell you that they have had such bad luck civy dating why not try an arrangement site.

Landing a well to do guy is the dream of all women and to each on that is different. One told me she didn't want to be sent into the 7-11 with 5 dollars and a guy that expects a receipt and his change back LOL.

Everyone expects entitlement, you expect younger hotter pusy and these girls expect a better class of guy which in their mind that's what a sd is supposed to be.