"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2963163]First, the definitions of the terms as I use them.

Civy dating = they are dating for pursuit of a partner first, and may or may not have considered financial aspect at all. Just traditional dating, maybe with strings maybe not. She might offer to pay for her own dinner the first date. Most likely if you fuck her and don't call her the next day she will be pissed and / or feel used, etc. Then again she may complain about her financial situation on the first date. One main differentiator is the circumstances under which you meet, there are civy sites and there are SB sites and usually that dictates part of it, at least how things start out initially (one could turn into the other over time). You see a lot more civy prospects with decent jobs, some are real breadwinners in their own right. But you can also meet civy girls that just as desperate as a nando SB, but still won't take money (directly). SB candidates tend to be emphasis on emotional connection first, financial help second.

SB dating = they join an SD / SB website specifically hoping to snag someone who can take care of them or help them in some way (mostly financial), or they have a daddy kink and just feel like they are tired of guys their age and figure if they are going to sleep around they might as well aim upward in status, but there is often some indication of a "damsel in distress" element. SBs are usually financial minded first, emotional connection second.

But to answer your question I'm not sure why someone who is getting everything they want in the civy world would intentionally convert a civy find to an SB. When I wasn't in a LTR, I was pretty much always in civy mode. If I split from my SO today, I would probably go back to primarily civy dating just to pursue finding someone I could stand to be around when we are not fucking. For sex, the 18+ crowd is great, but for long term dating I find anyone under 26 or so to be annoying for any length of time, just too much of a maturity gap. But, I might supplement my lifestyle by dabbling on SD sites, I did a little of that in the past. Why pay for it if you can get it for free? Well I don't know, I do that now. I can roll over on my gf any time I want it, she's good to go. But there is something erotic about hooking up with strangers and swapping cash for sex. I don't know I guess it's a turn on. I think that's true for some of these girls. My most recent FC visit was a girl that showed up driving $60 k car. She didn't need 200 bucks from me. I didn't ask but I got the impression "bored housewife to a rich guy". I guess she just liked the raunchy escapism attached with hooking up with a stranger and fulfilling a fantasy of being someone's paid fuck. Who knows.[/QUOTE]There is an important sub-category: civvies with SB potential. That is my absolute favorite category to find great SBs. Some young civvies would date a much older guy without any financial incentive but most would not. The extra incentive of some cash can be just enough to start the ball rolling, to get a civvie who has thought about this but never acted over the hump so to speak. Then you have the chance to charm them with your maturity, wisdom, worldliness and sexual experience. Then hopefully the financial incentive is there but other emotional and psychological benefits become as equally important to her as the physical benefits are to you and it can lead to a very satisfying and fun sexual relationship. I find that once a woman has crossed the line to thinking of herself as a SB and is posting on sugar sites, she is already past the optimal point IMHO. I would prefer to work a little harder to convert a civvie to a SB and mold her the way I want rather than deal with all the hassle of a fully developed, experienced and perhaps jaded and / or demanding SB.

OK, so I am as open minded as the next guy and don't discriminate against people or their preferences.

So I find a POT online and strike up a convo. Things are going well, the couple of pics she sent looked cute enough. She seemed to have been a SB before and knew what she wanted. Everything was reasonable. So I asked for s bikini shot to better assess my interest and I get a link to a fully-clothed, full length shot in a T*m*** account. The next text says "Oops! Didn't mean to send that link!" and it has the same pic attached.

Now being an inquisitive monger and one who cares about safety, I decided to take a look at the rest of the T*m*** account! Found many nice pics of the girl with flowing red hair and cute features. Then a few that I guess look tom-boyish, but yet very cute. Oh and there was the usually postings of stream of consciousness stuff which made little sense, but I guess does to a 22 yo.

But then I clicked on a link that was the "About Me" page and found this text! OMFG!

[I]Im ABCDE, ABC for short. Trans boy. Pansexual. Somewhere on the Aromantic Spectrum. College student[/I]

But JEEZ! I am getting too old for this! What happens if one were to unwrap this. What might they find?

I mean REALLY? Why can't boys just be boys and girls just be girls? Now I got to ask about her chromosomal make up at birth? How do I do that? Hey, Baby are you an XX or an XY? Or Hey Baby, you gots all of your ORIGINAL gender appropriate "equipment?" Or Hey, have you had any sex change related surgeries I should know about?

Maybe it is time to quit this hobby! Just when I think I have seen everything, something "new" crops up! Sigh!

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2962875]So why would one who is having luck at civy dating try and convert her to a sb? [/QUOTE]You know, I'm sitting there doing some work and it dawned on me that I completely missed what you were asking here. I read your question as why would someone convert a successful civy date to an SB. But I think you were referring to something I wrote before about hunting in civy land for conversions to SB. I was referring to girls on civy sites who are looking for age appropriate dating, but have never considered being an SB directly. If she is talked into dating someone twice her age for a little financial incentive she has been converted, that's what I meant.

[QUOTE=PartyTimeGuy;2963205]There is an important sub-category: civvies with SB potential. That is my absolute favorite category to find great SBs. Some young civvies would date a much older guy without any financial incentive but most would not. The extra incentive of some cash can be just enough to start the ball rolling, to get a civvie who has thought about this but never acted over the hump so to speak. Then you have the chance to charm them with your maturity, wisdom, worldliness and sexual experience. Then hopefully the financial incentive is there but other emotional and psychological benefits become as equally important to her as the physical benefits are to you and it can lead to a very satisfying and fun sexual relationship. I find that once a woman has crossed the line to thinking of herself as a SB and is posting on sugar sites, she is already past the optimal point IMHO. I would prefer to work a little harder to convert a civvie to a SB and mold her the way I want rather than deal with all the hassle of a fully developed, experienced and perhaps jaded and / or demanding SB.[/QUOTE]Yeah, your timing was good, this is what I was original suggesting when I got on the subject of civy sites. Then again I've had the converse of that situation, where a girl who would never join an SB site joined a civy site, open minded toward older guys but expecting some help in life. It's fun when you can be the beneficiary of the fact they opened up their filters to possible daddys, but still use dating skill to get in her pants without ever implying you could help.

I once met a young lady who had graduated college in that situation. She met a guy her age right around the same time she met me. She fell in love with him (I never offered anything emotional) but kept coming over to my place for sex because despite her professed undying love for him, she said he was lousy in bed and she wanted sex from me. I never spent more than dinner and a few drinks on her, she just liked the sex as much as I did. Not really an SB (to me), and not really a civy date. More like a needy fuckbuddy.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2963295] But JEEZ! I am getting too old for this! What happens if one were to unwrap this. What might they find? I mean REALLY? Why can't boys just be boys and girls just be girls? Now I got to ask about her chromosomal make up at birth? How do I do that? Hey, Baby are you an XX or an XY? Or Hey Baby, you gots all of your ORIGINAL gender appropriate "equipment?" Or Hey, have you had any sex change related surgeries I should know about? Maybe it is time to quit this hobby! Just when I think I have seen everything, something "new" crops up! Sigh![/QUOTE]I think how it works is that if she calls herself a trans boy, she is actually a girl that likes to pretend to be a boy (sometimes or full time), but does not date girls thus still likes cock, and therefore would have a va-jay-jay if you were to unwrap it. So the good news is that you weren't as close to stepping into (or onto) what you thought you were. The bad news is that not only are the types you fear on SD, they are not always up front about it (someone recently was posting about a trans dude who tricked him).

And I personally think something should be done about it even if it's just reporting the individual to the SD site. Its up to the site if they want to support transgender dating or not, but if they do they need to find a way to make sure SDs do not get tricked into spending time or money on sugar bubbas without realizing it. They could have their own site for this type of activity, if they don't already then they should. Choosing to portray / identify as something other than ones true sex on a day to day basis is one thing, but tricking someone else into dating you dishonestly under that ruse is just deceitful and should be criminalized.

[QUOTE=PartyTimeGuy;2961242]I also find that most young women today have no problem with stills or videos. I photograph and video all of my SB Bunnies. A few of them have requested annonymity but most don't care one way or the other. I usually mask their faces not because they have asked me to but because I see no need to fully expose their identities publicly. Pics are just a way to literally "flesh out" the written experience.[/QUOTE]I photograph every one of my SBs -no faces. Always my dick in their pussy. My library is wonderful to review and remember the good times.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2963390]I photograph every one of my SBs -no faces. Always my dick in their pussy. My library is wonderful to review and remember the good times.[/QUOTE]It's all good. Fires up hot memories. My album is comprehensive and never fails to give me a woody. I do it all, both stills and videos: glamour shots, naughty shots, sucking my dick fucking, etc. But I generally hide their faces when posting here. Lots of good reasons for that which should be obvious to veteran SDs.

As I mentioned I have been looking for replacement for my current SB. Well after some long hunting I may of found one. Tall. Slender brunette. Think of liv tyler but for me more attractive. 21! I am close to 50. She has had 1 LT SD and he moved so she is looking. She is a good communicator. Meaning. She texts back in a reasonable time. We schedule a meet and I WAS actually late due to traffic. Let her know (this ended being an HOUR late) . She waited! Understood it was not my fault. NOOO BITCHING. Meet was short as I promised her. Just a get to know so about 45 min. Enough time for a bite and drink. I could tell she was a bit nervous no biggie. I thank her for meeting. Go for a little hug. She nervously hugs back. Ok. So I am driving home and think hey. All good but guess I'm not her thing. No hard feelings. Literally 30 sec later. Hey. I really enjoyed meeting you. And would like to see you again. Sooooooooo wish me well! We have plans for Saturday eve!

[QUOTE=LikeMike1963;2965078]As I mentioned I have been looking for replacement for my current SB. Well after some long hunting I may of found one. Tall. Slender brunette. Think of liv tyler but for me more attractive. 21! I am close to 50. She has had 1 LT SD and he moved so she is looking. She is a good communicator. Meaning. She texts back in a reasonable time. We schedule a meet and I WAS actually late due to traffic. Let her know (this ended being an HOUR late) . She waited! Understood it was not my fault. NOOO BITCHING. Meet was short as I promised her. Just a get to know so about 45 min. Enough time for a bite and drink. I could tell she was a bit nervous no biggie. I thank her for meeting. Go for a little hug. She nervously hugs back. Ok. So I am driving home and think hey. All good but guess I'm not her thing. No hard feelings. Literally 30 sec later. Hey. I really enjoyed meeting you. And would like to see you again. Sooooooooo wish me well! We have plans for Saturday eve![/QUOTE]It has been my experience that women process decisions very differently from men. We see things in categories: work, home, recreation, etc. We process each category separately and make our decisions relatively quickly. Women process everything together; everything in their lives is fused together. Everything affects everything else. They tend to make decisions more slowly. They need to think about how one thing affects everything else and vice versa. What it sounds like to me is that this gal was processing you into her "fusion" and had to think more about how you fit together with all the other things in her life. We should always remember this in dealing with SBs. They will rarely make snap decisions. We need to be more patient and understanding of the way they process. Never expect immediate answers and response from a woman like you would expect from a man. Never pester her for a decision or keep bringing it up. Allow it time to simmer and meld together like ingredients in a stew. It takes time for them to process. Then, all of a sudden you will be surprised by their decision like you were.

All things we know but always need to be reminded of. Women do integrate much more comprehensively rather than compartmentalize. We had been texting a bit for a few days before so I am sure your correct in your assessment of her pulling all the info together =. We had communicated about 2 mths ago and she was wanting $3500 month. Saying that is what her former SD gave her. Honestly after meeting he in person. I am pretty sure she is not full of BS. Not just from a looks stand point but her personna she could command that. And I do not mean in an overpowering way. But she has a calming ease to her. But few of us and match that number. At that time I just thanked her and said I unfortunately do not have that level of support. I then reached back out about a week ago and re engaged her. Obviously she had one of the golden daddys. Good experience and good money. I am a good "daddy" and decent money but not that category. I promised her $1500 mth to count on and some extras as I can so will need up being around 2 k. She said she will be reasonably available for me and most of our time once we get acquainted enough will be overnights. So lets see how it all pans out.

[QUOTE=PartyTimeGuy;2965339]It has been my experience that women process decisions very differently from men. We see things in categories: work, home, recreation, etc. We process each category separately and make our decisions relatively quickly. Women process everything together; everything in their lives is fused together. Everything affects everything else. They tend to make decisions more slowly. They need to think about how one thing affects everything else and vice versa. What it sounds like to me is that this gal was processing you into her "fusion" and had to think more about how you fit together with all the other things in her life. We should always remember this in dealing with SBs. They will rarely make snap decisions. We need to be more patient and understanding of the way they process. Never expect immediate answers and response from a woman like you would expect from a man. Never pester her for a decision or keep bringing it up. Allow it time to simmer and meld together like ingredients in a stew. It takes time for them to process. Then, all of a sudden you will be surprised by their decision like you were.[/QUOTE]

LikeMike,

Let's us know how Saturday night's date go.

Enzo.

Must've been extremely bored today. The past week, I've been going through my old emails of SBs that I went back and forth with, but never set up a M&G. This paid off because these girls aren't active on the site and most responded. A POT that I was thirsty for moved from the area and I made the trek to meet up. 21, very petite, but pretty classy. We had a dinner date and moved to a 2nd venue. Whenever there's a move to a 2nd venue that's a good sign. She gave me this spill about how she's straight-forward and sort of guides me to asking what I want. No $$, but she followed me back to my neighborhood to go clubbing with a GF. Both are coming by later. She asked if I had vodka. This might be an awesome night.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2966616]Must've been extremely bored today. The past week, I've been going through my old emails of SBs that I went back and forth with, but never set up a M&G. This paid off because these girls aren't active on the site and most responded. A POT that I was thirsty for moved from the area and I made the trek to meet up. 21, very petite, but pretty classy. We had a dinner date and moved to a 2nd venue. Whenever there's a move to a 2nd venue that's a good sign. She gave me this spill about how she's straight-forward and sort of guides me to asking what I want. No $$, but she followed me back to my neighborhood to go clubbing with a GF. Both are coming by later. She asked if I had vodka. This might be an awesome night.[/QUOTE]New POT keep her word and came over. 6 face, 7 body, 6 in bed. Face went down the morning after. Saw the makeup fading and noticed the painted eyebrows. She dropped 2 points because of that. Tight little body. Actual vagina was nice and soaked. She's on BC, she was leaning on me to bareback. Didn't entertain it. Strapped up each time. Girl was a screamer. Unreal screamer. Mid-way she's screaming she loves me. She loves the d. K. Girl was cumming back to back out of her mind. I just got tired of banging her after awhile. Doesn't do BJ. She tried, but her mouth and jaw were too small, bit of teeth to. Couldn't blow my load no matter what. Hours of sweat and banging her. It was a good workout. Finally started imaging my ex and was able to get off.

Anyways, sweet girl. Wasn't bad company. Don't think I'll continue. Morning sex was followed by her pillow talk about finance. Asked me if I'd co-sign on a used car loan. ? Told her she was nuts in a nice way. Took her out for breakfast. Girl got really clingy. She was sort of pushing to hold hands in public. Keep it cool, gave her cash for her gas and drive home.

So I have been on and off of SA over the last two years. Honestly it has been hit and miss many times. I usually take long breaks in between. I am getting the itch to go back on but while I was perusing the site I have noticed that a lot more of these girls are asking for Moderate allowance. Does it seem like these new girls are getting a bad case of GPS?

I think the percentage of new girls having GPS is getting higher by the day.

Have any of gentleman watched the new cable series called "the Girlfriend Experience"?

[QUOTE=Ltnric;2967479]So I have been on and off of SA over the last two years. Honestly it has been hit and miss many times. I usually take long breaks in between. I am getting the itch to go back on but while I was perusing the site I have noticed that a lot more of these girls are asking for Moderate allowance. Does it seem like these new girls are getting a bad case of GPS?[/QUOTE]