"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Starkey2008;2956943] ... And I do question the way some of the guys on here view the bowl as something SO different. Bottom line, if a young girl is being compensated by you, and she is going to the FC with you, but wouldn't go if you were not compensating her, she is a PRO. And if she is going to the FC with you and you are not compensating her, then like it or not, you have a SO (at least in her eyes). There are levels of pros to be sure, but a pro is still a pro.[/QUOTE]That's the true test to see if it's real. Cut the sugar off "OR" it gets to the point where she's no longer asking. Once it's SO type of relationship it's solid and the emotional exchange is more genuine. Now granted if you had no money at all and not able to sustain the basics you'd have problems with the SB or GF, wife, etc. , That's just the nature of women. They want stability.

Another aspect of this is that girls like the SD dynamic. Ideally, they want an SD that they don't feel weird about introducing to close friends and maybe family. The feedback I've gotten from girls is that most of the guys on SA are creeps and constantly propositioning a pay-per-play exchange. Once they find a guy that checks most boxes and is somewhat decent you've got one over on the 20's something guys that are constantly chasing her.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2957053]
Another aspect of this is that girls like the SD dynamic. Ideally, they want an SD that they don't feel weird about introducing to close friends and maybe family. The feedback I've gotten from girls is that most of the guys on SA are creeps and constantly propositioning a pay-per-play exchange. Once they find a guy that checks most boxes and is somewhat decent you've got one over on the 20's something guys that are constantly chasing her.[/QUOTE]A couple points (I'd love feedback). I'm married, so introducing to anyone is out of the question. On the second part, I'm afraid I may be guilty of that (I just started SA a few days ago). It's not even that I'm strictly pushing p2 p, but from what I've seen there's a large number of girls on SA who it feels like are probably inclined to lead you on and never actually deliver. Any advice on how to handle that? The tactic I've been using are, once the conversation kind of approaches that point, mentioning the fact that I really do want the friendship and am totally fine waiting on the benefits until we are both completely comfortable with such, but because those women exist I'm not really establishing / paying an allowance until we are both fully comfortable to go to the next level. End result being I'm describing p2 p, which I'm sure the girls notice, but trying to explain my reasons honestly and logically?

[QUOTE=Tc9869;2957153]A couple points (I'd love feedback). I'm married, so introducing to anyone is out of the question. On the second part, I'm afraid I may be guilty of that (I just started SA a few days ago). It's not even that I'm strictly pushing p2 p, but from what I've seen there's a large number of girls on SA who it feels like are probably inclined to lead you on and never actually deliver. Any advice on how to handle that? The tactic I've been using are, once the conversation kind of approaches that point, mentioning the fact that I really do want the friendship and am totally fine waiting on the benefits until we are both completely comfortable with such, but because those women exist I'm not really establishing / paying an allowance until we are both fully comfortable to go to the next level. End result being I'm describing p2 p, which I'm sure the girls notice, but trying to explain my reasons honestly and logically?[/QUOTE]Most of these girls are p2 p and have no problem getting to the point. Not sure what the age group your hunting or how big of age difference there is but after initial get to know you messages just be direct, not an ass, as to what your looking for. Just tell numn5 of time per month and adult fun is expected. If your going to wine and dine them tell them. If interested they will follow up, if not move on. Not everyone is going follow up but p2 p girls won't care and get back to ya.

[QUOTE=Tc9869;2957153]A couple points (I'd love feedback). I'm married, so introducing to anyone is out of the question. On the second part, I'm afraid I may be guilty of that (I just started SA a few days ago). It's not even that I'm strictly pushing p2 p, but from what I've seen there's a large number of girls on SA who it feels like are probably inclined to lead you on and never actually deliver. Any advice on how to handle that? The tactic I've been using are, once the conversation kind of approaches that point, mentioning the fact that I really do want the friendship and am totally fine waiting on the benefits until we are both completely comfortable with such, but because those women exist I'm not really establishing / paying an allowance until we are both fully comfortable to go to the next level. End result being I'm describing p2 p, which I'm sure the girls notice, but trying to explain my reasons honestly and logically?[/QUOTE]FWIW I think you're approaching it fine already. As long as you remember the golden rule of no sugar from you until you get sugar from them, you won't have to worry about getting burned. Just turn a blind eye to the ones that want money just to meet for dinner or whatever. You'll develop your own style. For example I never get into money negotiations, I just gift them after the fact, but plenty of others do and it works for them.

You and Stark appear to agree. I do as well. A SB without an allowance, is an SO.

There is a very fine and blurry line if she doesn't get an allowance, but she's living with you and you're paying all the bills, including the credit card she goes clothes shopping with. If there is a ring on her finger, I think the term for her is trophy wife.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2957053]That's the true test to see if it's real. Cut the sugar off "OR" it gets to the point where she's no longer asking. Once it's SO type of relationship it's solid and the emotional exchange is more genuine. Now granted if you had no money at all and not able to sustain the basics you'd have problems with the SB or GF, wife, etc. , That's just the nature of women. They want stability.

Another aspect of this is that girls like the SD dynamic. Ideally, they want an SD that they don't feel weird about introducing to close friends and maybe family. The feedback I've gotten from girls is that most of the guys on SA are creeps and constantly propositioning a pay-per-play exchange. Once they find a guy that checks most boxes and is somewhat decent you've got one over on the 20's something guys that are constantly chasing her.[/QUOTE]

A change of this topic I hope to be able to comment on knowledgeably soon. I was looking up a couple of POTs, and got their real names. Google hit their FB and LI pages. I did look at them. Then I recall something I read here that if you are finding them on these social networks, they can see that you have viewed them, *from your civi account*. True? If so, my only choice is not to pursue these POTs, right? I have a SO. Have they gotten my real I'd from that? Please advise.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;2957237]A change of this topic I hope to be able to comment on knowledgeably soon. I was looking up a couple of POTs, and got their real names. Google hit their FB and LI pages. I did look at them. Then I recall something I read here that if you are finding them on these social networks, they can see that you have viewed them, *from your civi account*. True? If so, my only choice is not to pursue these POTs, right? I have a SO. Have they gotten my real I'd from that? Please advise.[/QUOTE]Unless another brother has information otherwise I can say IMO they cannot determine you visited their FB page. Not only did I research this topic a few years ago bc of similar concerns, I recently started a 2nd FB account under my SA name. I have viewed my original account page from my 2nd account and saw no notifications of being viewed.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2956455]A deactivated profile always exists and can be turned back on. Both good and bad. The good: 1. You can go back and reactivate to get Intel on prior pots you previously messages months back. Etc. The bad: 1. If there is a hack, your deactivated profile could be turned back on; etc.

My practice is to always delete all private pictures (since I never post public pics), modify all info, and change all the descriptions to something completely inane - for example, I'll change my tag line to something like: "I'm a PUA;" and then will change my bio to something equally ridiculous like: "I'm omniscient and omnipresent - I know all and see all. Ego regression is my forte. After you message me twice, you will be paying me an allowance to take you out on dates." Then for the what I'm looking for section, I'll change that to something completely over the top like: "all I really want is an ego stroke from the masses - although I'm shocked that I was able to achieve that and keep these descriptions to under 250 characters."

This way, if SA gets hacked and exposes your deactivated profile, it won't matter since the exposed profile will contain no identifying info.[/QUOTE]I do the same. It's unlikely they're saving revisions of profiles so the last one sticks.

I have been in the bowl for a year and have had a 6 month weekly SB, and a couple of 3 month weekly SBs, but always working a 2 to 4 girl rotation. For the first six months I listed myself on SA as Widowed when in fact I have a SO (married 25 years, celibate with her for 20). Then I switched to listing myself as Single. My current SB is a 19 yr old submissive bi-curious bsdm type who I recruited 6 weeks ago from SA to be a 3rd with my bi sexual SB I was seeing at the time. I dropped her and quickly switched to the 19 yr old. We started off weekly but have now set it up to meet 6 times a month some of which will include FMF "sessions" (I have been recruiting additional 3 rds to set up a M & G then to the FC as a FMF. We have had one already and I have 4 more available). So it is safe to say I have a hot number and do not want to easily lose her. My financial support has been 250 per visit which is 50 more than my cap, but we generally spend 6 to 8 hours together, while for our first overnight this past week I gave her 350. All gift envelopes are a blend of $ and gift cards.

At my second visit she asked me if I was single and I said yes. Today was our 6th time together but our first out of the FC, she started her period so I took her out to lunch and then to a park. (I gave her a $ 50 gift card to one of her favorite stores). It was instinctively clear to me at lunch and at the park that she knows I have a SO. After dropping some hints that she knew more than she let on she asked me point plank if I was single, again I said yes. I generally cover my tracks very well, but I know she has seen one of my business checks (I am self employed as a consultant). The business name on the check uses an acronym for the business and is not listed in the state corporation directory and does not show up on Google. The PO box address does show up on google way down the entries. Perhaps she got someone to run the tag on my car.

I had an opportunity at the park to confess about my SO but I was not 100 % sober and wanted to be in control of the details. I have no fear of her contacting my SO but I do have a concern that her outstanding FWB attitude will lose some of its playfulness. Personally, I would much rather have a FWB / authentic GFE than a NSA type who leaves her emotions at the door. Meanwhile we are scheduled for 2 nights next week, the first of which will be overnight and may have 2 M & G s with POT "thirds". But I was almost expecting to all that canceled with a Kiss-off text by the time I got home. I will have one other signal that will give me a clue. She has hinted at closing her SA account but says she likes to read the SD profiles and messages. She has been off the site this week but if she gets back on it frequently between now and my next visit then that will say something, but if she does not then maybe that tells me she will stick around and accept my SO cover-up. So the question to the brothers is this: Should I confess (in person) to having a SO and admit that I had lied previously, or should I hold on to my SO cover-up?

Agree with you on all your points.

On your last point though, alternate accounts are more work, but SA used to offer discounts for SD profiles that were not upgraded after three or four months. I created a bunch of different accounts one night that provided savings of a few hundred dollars.

For a while my method was to activate an account, create a stable of SBs, play with them until I got bored of them or until they got too emotionally attached, and then activate a "new" profile at a discount. Some girls would span multiple profile activations (e. G. My swim instructor) and would remain in the stable, while I added or subtracted to the rotation. This had the added benefit of SBs assuming that I was no longer looking. I would also "groundhog" day prior pots that I made mistakes with. So if I insulted a previous pot with an off color joke, or pissed her off by missing a m&g, it would allow me to go back and recreate how I got her to open up in the first place, and then allow me not to make the same mistake twice.

Multiple profiles are a lot of work, but provided an added benefit for me while I was using that method.

[QUOTE=Starkey2008;2956943]I agree with the other guys who have indicated that it comes down to the relationship. How we interact is very different from my interaction with BP girls or even upscale agency girls. The relationship is dedeper and more personal (though not real), the time spent together is greater. I too wonder how much you have to investment to get true exclusivity. I know there are guys on here who have said their definition is one SD but they are also among the toughest negotiators. They bang on guys for paying too much. And I do question the way some of the guys on here view the bowl as something SO different. Bottom line, if a young girl is being compensated by you, and she is going to the FC with you, but wouldn't go if you were not compensating her, she is a PRO. And if she is going to the FC with you and you are not compensating her, then like it or not, you have a SO (at least in her eyes). There are levels of pros to be sure, but a pro is still a pro. BTW. How can you be sure they have deactivated? All they have to do is create a different account, then block you right away. You will NEVER know. I guess you too could create a dummy account, but that seems like a lot of work. Just my two cents...

Stay Safe,

Starkey.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;2957237]A change of this topic I hope to be able to comment on knowledgeably soon. I was looking up a couple of POTs, and got their real names. Google hit their FB and LI pages. I did look at them. Then I recall something I read here that if you are finding them on these social networks, they can see that you have viewed them, *from your civi account*. True? If so, my only choice is not to pursue these POTs, right? I have a SO. Have they gotten my real I'd from that? Please advise.[/QUOTE]For LI, almost certainly yes, to the best of my knowledge a LI user will see everyone that directly viewed them (unless they've made a change here). About FB, I'm not sure, there was a time that it was putting people that had viewed you repeatedly into "people you may know", so based on what I saw there, there could be enough for her to see your pic come up there. I'd like to give more certain answers here, but the nature of social media is that they are constantly making changes, so the way it worked the last time I experimented with them may not be the way they work tomorrow.

What I'd recommend is get in the habit of only looking at them in private mode in a browser (at a minimum), ensuring that whatever browser you are using isn't tracking you across those sites. To be really safe have a dedicated computer for your "play" activities or set up a virtual machine (depending how technical you want to get) to separate your SD fun from regular computing.

And this one is going to sting a little, but if you value your SO, I'd just call off any existing POTS that you may have accidentally revealed your identity to, because once they know who you are you can never take it back. There will be plenty of SBs in the future. But now you need to be extra careful, because a lot of the SBs you talk to have friends on the site you may also have already corresponded to, so you may be talking to one that you've stayed anonymous to, but then she shares a picture with one of her friends you talked to before that saw your LI or FB profile.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2957408]Agree with you on all your points.

On your last point though, alternate accounts are more work, but SA used to offer discounts for SD profiles that were not upgraded after three or four months. I created a bunch of different accounts one night that provided savings of a few hundred dollars.

For a while my method was to activate an account, create a stable of SBs, play with them until I got bored of them or until they got too emotionally attached, and then activate a "new" profile at a discount. Some girls would span multiple profile activations (e. G. My swim instructor) and would remain in the stable, while I added or subtracted to the rotation. This had the added benefit of SBs assuming that I was no longer looking. I would also "groundhog" day prior pots that I made mistakes with. So if I insulted a previous pot with an off color joke, or pissed her off by missing a m&g, it would allow me to go back and recreate how I got her to open up in the first place, and then allow me not to make the same mistake twice.

Multiple profiles are a lot of work, but provided an added benefit for me while I was using that method.[/QUOTE]Using multiple accounts to "Groundhog Day" POTS you messed up on. BRILLIANT. Probably more work than I'm willing to do, but I love it.

Stark.

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;2957396] So the question to the brothers is this: Should I confess (in person) to having a SO and admit that I had lied previously, or should I hold on to my SO cover-up?[/QUOTE]Based on what you've typed, I suspect she already knows. There are a lot of ways they can find us out, just like we find out things about them sometimes.

Back when I was married, it was a long time before FB or any of that, I was always amazed that most of these girls just knew, after a few weeks of regular banging. These were girls you'd call a mix of civvy and SB, basically niteclub pickups that are looking for a bf with a nice job and regularly complain about money problems (actual sugar help optional but appreciated). The thing is in the first week or so, they didn't care or inquire or think about it. After a couple of weeks they would get more attached and then soon after the friction always seemed to build up, resulting in them crying, saying "damnit I know you're married why don't you just admit it?" and stuff like that.

My point is if you see them regularly they build increasing attachment and interest in you. I think yours is at the point where she's just starting to wonder (but maybe already knows). So I don't see a big benefit in keeping her going, what's the worst that can happen if you tell her the truth? Very worst she says she is looking for an SD that can grow into a real relationship or something, at which point you cut her loose and just get a new one. But yeah it's okay that you lied about it before, just say something like you're still in denial about the whole thing and were not ready to cope with it on the surface until now or something to that effect. She might get pissed but I doubt it, and at least you've nipped any future uncomfortable attachment in the bud.

It's a ton of work. Due to promotions at my organization and significantly more responsibility I can't groundhog day or cross reference SA profiles against profiles on websites like taskrabbit or other menial job websites that many of these young ladies are also on.

Sadly even though I now have more money I have less time and energy for the hobby. Now the methodology requires more work than I am willling to put in as well.

[QUOTE=Starkey2008;2957436]Using multiple accounts to "Groundhog Day" POTS you messed up on. BRILLIANT. Probably more work than I'm willing to do, but I love it.

Stark.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;2957396]I have been in the bowl for a year and have had a 6 month weekly SB, and a couple of 3 month weekly SBs, but always working a 2 to 4 girl rotation. For the first six months I listed myself on SA as Widowed when in fact I have a SO (married 25 years, celibate with her for 20). Then I switched to listing myself as Single. My current SB is a 19 yr old submissive bi-curious bsdm type who I recruited 6 weeks ago from SA to be a 3rd with my bi sexual SB I was seeing at the time. I dropped her and quickly switched to the 19 yr old. We started off weekly but have now set it up to meet 6 times a month some of which will include FMF "sessions" (I have been recruiting additional 3 rds to set up a M & G then to the FC as a FMF. We have had one already and I have 4 more available). So it is safe to say I have a hot number and do not want to easily lose her. My financial support has been 250 per visit which is 50 more than my cap, but we generally spend 6 to 8 hours together, while for our first overnight this past week I gave her 350. All gift envelopes are a blend of $ and gift cards.

At my second visit she asked me if I was single and I said yes. Today was our 6th time together but our first out of the FC, she started her period so I took her out to lunch and then to a park. (I gave her a $ 50 gift card to one of her favorite stores). It was instinctively clear to me at lunch and at the park that she knows I have a SO. After dropping some hints that she knew more than she let on she asked me point plank if I was single, again I said yes. I generally cover my tracks very well, but I know she has seen one of my business checks (I am self employed as a consultant). The business name on the check uses an acronym for the business and is not listed in the state corporation directory and does not show up on Google. The PO box address does show up on google way down the entries. Perhaps she got someone to run the tag on my car.

I had an opportunity at the park to confess about my SO but I was not 100 % sober and wanted to be in control of the details. I have no fear of her contacting my SO but I do have a concern that her outstanding FWB attitude will lose some of its playfulness. Personally, I would much rather have a FWB / authentic GFE than a NSA type who leaves her emotions at the door. Meanwhile we are scheduled for 2 nights next week, the first of which will be overnight and may have 2 M & G s with POT "thirds". But I was almost expecting to all that canceled with a Kiss-off text by the time I got home. I will have one other signal that will give me a clue. She has hinted at closing her SA account but says she likes to read the SD profiles and messages. She has been off the site this week but if she gets back on it frequently between now and my next visit then that will say something, but if she does not then maybe that tells me she will stick around and accept my SO cover-up. So the question to the brothers is this: Should I confess (in person) to having a SO and admit that I had lied previously, or should I hold on to my SO cover-up?[/QUOTE]These girls don't care about marital status so why not list your status. The very few that do usually state it in their profile. I see there is a big age difference here so she is there for the payday only. If they know you have a so from get go that eliminates them digging further. Most realize that this is a hook up site where most men are married. As long as the cash is flowing they don't care.