General Reports

[QUOTE=Opi7001;7138833]I'd love to see an example of a client list leading to a plea deal. A korg having a text with your ID does nothing to prove that something criminal took place. It is not illegal to text a prostitute your ID and other information.

The most it could lead to is a coordinated sting / setup. There is no chance you get a cop at your door someday because they found your info on a client list. There just arent laws in place that make that a crime.[/QUOTE]Have you ever heard of Google, my friend? Look it up. Seattle in 2016. Boston and Northern Virginia earlier this year. Countless other cases. Just because it has never happened to you doesn't mean it has never happened.

Do you know the guys in Seattle were busted for writing reviews? Not for soliciting prostitution. Not for human trafficking. For writing reviews on the internet.

"But that's not illegal," I hear you saying. Well, guys in Seattle went to jail for it. And guess who made a plea deal by giving up her client list and telling the cops everything she knew?

Yeah, go look it up. You can read the newspaper articles, but if you really want to know what happened, then read the court documents, as I have. They are public information, and they are very eye-opening. It is easy for any one of us to go to jail for participating in this hobby. The authorities view male customers as the real criminals. If your name winds up on a client list, that is the first step toward some potentially very bad things happening to you.

[QUOTE=Taliesin92;7139471]Have you ever heard of Google, my friend? Look it up. Seattle in 2016. Boston and Northern Virginia earlier this year. Countless other cases. Just because it has never happened to you doesn't mean it has never happened.

Do you know the guys in Seattle were busted for writing reviews? Not for soliciting prostitution. Not for human trafficking. For writing reviews on the internet.

"But that's not illegal," I hear you saying. Well, guys in Seattle went to jail for it. And guess who made a plea deal by giving up her client list and telling the cops everything she knew?

Yeah, go look it up. You can read the newspaper articles, but if you really want to know what happened, then read the court documents, as I have. They are public information, and they are very eye-opening. It is easy for any one of us to go to jail for participating in this hobby. The authorities view male customers as the real criminals. If your name winds up on a client list, that is the first step toward some potentially very bad things happening to you.[/QUOTE]So unless it's caught on video or seen by law enforcement they can not prosecute you for it and win! I hear you did they do it maybe but the only case they might of won or plead out is the ones where idiots were so scared and sang like canaries. Cops needs hard evidence to find you guilty not a list of names. Like the blade on Fig put up cameras and is sending pics of you and your vehicle now if you are caught in the area. You think they would send you a letter with pictures if they could just come to your home and arrest you? They trying to scare you!! I guess point of the story is keep your mouth shut!

[QUOTE=Taliesin92;7139471]Have you ever heard of Google, my friend? Look it up. Seattle in 2016. Boston and Northern Virginia earlier this year. Countless other cases. Just because it has never happened to you doesn't mean it has never happened.

Do you know the guys in Seattle were busted for writing reviews? Not for soliciting prostitution. Not for human trafficking. For writing reviews on the internet.

"But that's not illegal," I hear you saying. Well, guys in Seattle went to jail for it. And guess who made a plea deal by giving up her client list and telling the cops everything she knew?

Yeah, go look it up. You can read the newspaper articles, but if you really want to know what happened, then read the court documents, as I have. They are public information, and they are very eye-opening. It is easy for any one of us to go to jail for participating in this hobby. The authorities view male customers as the real criminals. If your name winds up on a client list, that is the first step toward some potentially very bad things happening to you.[/QUOTE]It's pretty clear cut in Cali. Just don't explicitly ask for sex with words.

[QUOTE=DownloadX;7139496]In the Seattle case, the problem was mongers were involved in the business.[/QUOTE]A small number of them were. The vast majority of them were not. You shouldn't paint everyone with the same brush. That's what the King County prosecutor tried to do. Also, keep in mind, the only person who received a multi-year felony prison sentence was convicted for writing reviews on the internet, so-called "promoting" prostitution. He was NOT convicted of anything related to running a business, or profiting at all from the business.

And if you are referring to LAKS, there was no membership fee. I was a member and I never paid a dime. If someone asked you for money, that was a scam.

There is so much misinformation floating around about the Seattle case, it's really amazing. If you want to know the truth about what happened, you need to read the court documents. I realize that takes a lot of time. The only other good source of information is Elizabeth Nolan Brown, senior editor at Reason magazine. She is a former provider-turned-journalist who advocates for the rights of sex workers. She actually read the court docs and interviewed many of the men who were railroaded in that case. If you must read the press coverage, she is the only reliable source.

The authorities lied repeatedly about the allegations in that case, and most of the press repeated those lies like dutiful little stenographers. The only place they couldn't lie was in the court documents, where you can see exactly how flimsy the case was. It rested entirely on nothing but an old 1970's-era state law that is clearly unconstitutional. The problem was, there was so much hysteria over "human trafficking" at that time, no judge was willing to do the right thing and throw out the case.

Note: No one was ever charged with "human trafficking. " Not even one person. Despite the fact that the District Attorney, the Sheriff and all the initial newspaper headlines screamed "HT. ".

[QUOTE=JonathonJammer;7139536].Cops needs hard evidence to find you guilty [/QUOTE]We aren't in North Korea, the cops don't find you guilty.

All the cops need to make your life a living hell is. Well, nothing more than a suspicion, and sometimes not even that.

If you are comfortable in giving your real name & related info to a C-Org, go for it, no one is stopping you.

However, by spreading false info, you are not helping your fellow 'hobbyist'.

The way it works, is LE arrests people they think might be involved in a crime, and then it's up to the the & related to press charges & take it through the system.

If you are ok with spending hobby money fighting a case, however unlikely charges are to be brought, hey. Great if you have nothing to loose, most of us find it smarter to avoid that possibility all together.

Stop being stupid.

[QUOTE=JonathonJammer;7139536]I guess point of the story is keep your mouth shut![/QUOTE]I love how all the amateur lawyers come out of the woodwork whenever this topic comes up. LOL!

The only good advice you gave is to "keep your mouth shut. " And ask for a lawyer. That's the best thing you can do if you are ever arrested in any situation.

Meanwhile, I simply urge you, if you want to know what really happened in these cases, go read the court documents. You clearly have no idea how the legal system works. In Seattle, for instance, literally NO ONE was caught on camera or audio recording asking a woman for sex, or offering money for sex. Not one person.

Go educate yourself before spewing misinformation all over the board.

It is true that California law differs from Washington state law, but if Uncle LEO ever decides he wants to get you, believe me, he will get you. The best thing you can do is to stay anonymous, fly under the radar, and never give him a reason to come after you.

Keeping your real name OFF an agency's client list is a good place to start.

[QUOTE=Taliesin92;7139861]Also, keep in mind, the only person who received a multi-year felony prison sentence was convicted for writing reviews on the internet, so-called "promoting" prostitution. He was NOT convicted of anything related to running a business, or profiting at all from the business.[/QUOTE]Any idea how the District Attorney was able to get to his real name from the handle he must've used when posting on that board?

Lift Her Up.

P.S. I tried to abbreviate "District Attorney" but the site's autocorrect changed the common abbreviation to "the. ".

[QUOTE=LiftHerUp;7140295]Any idea how the District Attorney was able to get to his real name from the handle he must've used when posting on that board?[/QUOTE]The police had several ways of identifying the men. Some were identified by their IP addresses. Their internet service providers gave them up without any objections. The IP addresses connected the men directly to the reviews they posted online. (This is why it's a good idea to use a VPN. Every smart monger I know today uses one.).

Google also gave up tons of information on guys who used what they thought were anonymous Gmail addresses. During one man's trial, many of his Google messages were held up and displayed for the jury to read. (This is why we use encrypted ProtonMail now.).

And some were identified the old fashioned way. When a dozen of the guys got together at a local restaurant, police took photos of their license plates and got their names and addresses from the Washington State Department of Licensing.

Guys who did not attend those types of events, instead, got a knock on the door at their homes. They were arrested in front of their families.

King County spent more than $2. 5 million investigating that case. They were able to get everything they needed without ever witnessing an actual act of prostitution.

[QUOTE=Taliesin92;7139471]Have you ever heard of Google, my friend? Look it up. Seattle in 2016. Boston and Northern Virginia earlier this year. Countless other cases. Just because it has never happened to you doesn't mean it has never happened.

Do you know the guys in Seattle were busted for writing reviews? Not for soliciting prostitution. Not for human trafficking. For writing reviews on the internet.

"But that's not illegal," I hear you saying. Well, guys in Seattle went to jail for it. And guess who made a plea deal by giving up her client list and telling the cops everything she knew?

Yeah, go look it up. You can read the newspaper articles, but if you really want to know what happened, then read the court documents, as I have. They are public information, and they are very eye-opening. It is easy for any one of us to go to jail for participating in this hobby. The authorities view male customers as the real criminals. If your name winds up on a client list, that is the first step toward some potentially very bad things happening to you.[/QUOTE]So I looked up the things you are referencing (we can just ignore the fact that this is part of a CA forum and Seattle isn't relavent) and what happened in those cases, if I'm looking at the correct ones, was exactly what I said was the only possibility. That they setup a sting.

Seattle seems to have some really strict laws specifically that target johns. But all the cases I see are stings.

The one from the internet forum jsut like this one was way more involved than just posts on the forum. These johns were having real life meets ups, which an undercover cop infiltrated, and these johns were involved in moving the girls around, driving them to and from the airport etc. This had wire taps and search warrants and everything else. Unless there are other cases this is all way more involved than the simple discussion here.

A setup/sting is always possible and I would wager the most likely way you get in legal trouble. If you avoid asking for sex for money in texts, which you can do, and you dont get caught in the act you are pretty safe legally speaking.

I think the cases you bring up are worth knowing about but its a pretty extreme example and outlier. These all go well beyond simple solicitation or prostitution charges.

[QUOTE=LiftHerUp;7140295]Any idea how the District Attorney was able to get to his real name from the handle he must've used when posting on that board?

Lift Her Up.

P.S. I tried to abbreviate "District Attorney" but the site's autocorrect changed the common abbreviation to "the. ".[/QUOTE]Most websites and discussion boards, including this ONE have logging capability. [blue][Deleted by Admin]

I'm going to delete this because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

I they ever subpoenaed us it would be difficult since the owner is Argentine, our answer would be "we are sorry, we don't log IP addresses, we can't help you." If they wanted proof of that they would have to subpoena our servers in Malaysia.

A2[/blue]

[QUOTE=Taliesin92;7140421]The police had several ways of identifying the men. Some were identified by their IP addresses. Their internet service providers gave them up without any objections. The IP addresses connected the men directly to the reviews they posted online. (This is why it's a good idea to use a VPN. Every smart monger I know today uses one.).

Google also gave up tons of information on guys who used what they thought were anonymous Gmail addresses. During one man's trial, many of his Google messages were held up and displayed for the jury to read. (This is why we use encrypted ProtonMail now.).

And some were identified the old fashioned way. When a dozen of the guys got together at a local restaurant, police took photos of their license plates and got their names and addresses from the Washington State Department of Licensing.

Guys who did not attend those types of events, instead, got a knock on the door at their homes. They were arrested in front of their families.

King County spent more than $2. 5 million investigating that case. They were able to get everything they needed without ever witnessing an actual act of prostitution.[/QUOTE]Thank you for your straightforward and thorough response. Very helpful.

Lift Her Up.

[QUOTE=Opi7001;7140612]I think the cases you bring up are worth knowing about but its a pretty extreme example and outlier.[/QUOTE]Of course it is. But it's also a great example of the lengths that law enforcement is willing to go to ruin our lives when they feel like it. As I said, they spent $2. 5 million investigating that case. They spent two years on it. And, yes, there was an undercover cop involved. But it was the electronic surveillance that really did the damage (the IP tracking, the Gmail messages, and the license plate scans). That's what provided the proof they used in court.

There are steps you can take to protect yourself from all of that. Are they 100%? No. But why wouldn't you at least make the effort to protect yourself? Don't give up your real information to bookers. Stay anonymous. Use a VPN. Use encrypted email and text messaging. And, needless to say, don't attend group events with other mongers.

I don't understand why anyone would argue against taking such sensible measures. But I hear guys in this discussion forum arguing against it all the time. Makes no sense.

[QUOTE=Opi7001;7140612]The one from the internet forum jsut like this one was way more involved than just posts on the forum.[/QUOTE]You need to read all the way to the end. When everything was said and done, there was only one person who got serious prison time (5 years). And it wasn't for soliciting prostitution, or human trafficking, or driving k-girls around town, or leasing apartments for them. His eleven felonies were all based on the reviews that he had written and posted on various sex boards.

I know guys find that hard to believe. But that's exactly what happened. He went to jail for 5 years on felony charges for writing reviews. Not for anything else.

[BLUE]There is nothing at all the same about the site the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen in Bellevue started and this one. The guy who owned it was in the US, the servers were in the US and he insisted on meeting people before they became members. Those guys used to meet at restaurants around Bellevue and compare stories and didn't care who heard them. Eventually the cops sent somebody around who joined the group and took it apart from the inside.

Our servers are in Malaysia, NONE of us are in the US, not a one of us. The URL is registered in a country that doesn't respond to subpoenas, (see the .nl at the end of the address) and we are not US owned. None of you are known to us, I couldn't authenticate a user if they tried to make us. We don't have your name, no credit card info, no addresses no IP addresses, nothing. We are as anonymous as a site can possibly be. About the only way you could be tied to this site would be if you got caught like DPR did with the site open on your phone or laptop.

This pops up every couple years and some assholes like to tell horror stories.

Some of you guys who have been around might remember that we were closed for a few months after Fosta/Sesta got signed. That's when we moved everything out of the country.

Some of you guys make me laugh with the things you claim to know.

A2[/BLUE]

[QUOTE=Taliesin92;7140947]You need to read all the way to the end. When everything was said and done, there was only one person who got serious prison time (5 years). And it wasn't for soliciting prostitution, or human trafficking, or driving k-girls around town, or leasing apartments for them. His eleven felonies were all based on the reviews that he had written and posted on various sex boards.

I know guys find that hard to believe. But that's exactly what happened. He went to jail for 5 years on felony charges for writing reviews. Not for anything else.[/QUOTE][BLUE]It was because he created and operated the website the reviews were written on.

"Thirty-two men pleaded guilty to promoting prostitution, but Peters — who used the handles “PeterRabbit” and “TomCat007” in his sexually explicit, online reviews of prostituted women — was the only one to go to trial, according to prosecutors.

“He did as much as anyone to build and advance demand for prostitution in the Pacific Northwest,” a seven-page case summary written by Senior Deputy Prosecutors Gary Ernsdorff and Ben Gauen says of Peters, noting he financed the creation of a now shuttered website that exclusively advertised prostituted Korean women, known as “K girls.”

[url]https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/ringleader-of-sex-buyer-group-league-of-extraordinary-gentlemen-gets-more-than-3-years-in-prison/[/url]

A2[/BLUE]